Jade is making me and a lot of other people uncomfortable

[AegidiusF]

Il y a 3 heures, latetier a dit :

your argument is that in story it is not a pregnant frame even though it looks like a pregnant frame. that does not matter. if it APPEARS like something, normal people will think it is how it appears.

same thing as if someone trys to say a 3000 year old dragon girl that looks like a little girl isnt a little girl because she is 3000 years old dragon. this is such a simple idea, and if you still don't understand then you are being purposefully ignorant.

Nope, not at all. That's not my argument.

I'm opnely saying that she IS a pregnant warframe. And that a warframe is NOT a woman. If she was a pregnant woman, I would have been shocked, but she is a pregnant warframe. Everything is written on my previous posts.

My argument has nothing to do with fiction/reality distinction.

Il y a 3 heures, latetier a dit :

same thing as if someone trys to say a 3000 year old dragon girl that looks like a little girl isnt a little girl because she is 3000 years old dragon. this is such a simple idea, and if you still don't understand then you are being purposefully ignorant.

I've already answer the "dragon girl" argument. I'm not going to repeat myself (again) about something that has nothing to do with my own opinion : just read my previous posts and you'll be able to see it.

In addition to not reading my posts and putting words in my mouth, now you are making false assumptions about me ("purposefully ") and even insulting me ("ignorant"). It's always sad to see someone not respecting other people and not respecting this forum's guidelines.

We can have different opinions, but we should always respect one each other.

[Culaio]

10 hours ago, 0bsi said:

If that was the intention (and it wouldn't surprise me), then it's even more disgusting.

Its extremly unlikely because this quest was in development for a LONG time, at least since early last year, we know that from last year AMA, it was in april of last year, someone asked during that AMA to make Stalker playable and DE response was: 

"Currently, no, but if things go according to plan (fingers crossed) this won't be the last you see of Stalker in 2023, but what that actually means you'll find out at Tennocon (not PVP lol).

- [DE]Rebecca"

They eventually didnt reveal anything stalker related during the tennocon, but when they eventually announced Jade shadow this year during devstream they mentioned that they orginally planned to reveal it during tennocon but their plans changed(dont remember what though), so its without a question that Jade shadow was in develompent since at least april of last year.

[Mama_Sasha]

10 hours ago, spider_enigma said:

its literally meant to be an eye, to help the theme....

Kinda like those biblically accurate angels.

Personaly i do like her design and the themes surrounding her.

[Cr4zyDoc]

Murdering/ slaughtering / cutting billions of people in game into pieces = yeah fun!!!

warframe has a belly (not pregnant, like said 1000 times here) = how dareeeee you!

 

kinda hypocrite... dont ya think?  

Pregnancy makes yall uncomftable but mass murder not... 

[Mama_Sasha]

7 minutes ago, Cr4zyDoc said:

Murdering/ slaughtering / cutting billions of people in game into pieces = yeah fun!!!

warframe has a belly (not pregnant, like said 1000 times here) = how dareeeee you!

 

kinda hypocrite... dont ya think?  

Pregnancy makes yall uncomftable but mass murder not... 

There was also some dark themes in the New War, but nobody gave a crap then (both quests even had a warning for us to go trough with a word to type).
As for Jade, nothing wrong with her design, since as someone already stated, its just a copy of an original, so technicly she isnt pregnant, and im saying this as a woman myself, i like her design, i find her both beautiful and cute. I just simply seeing it for what it is, just symbolism for life (Her support role).

Edit: For stating im a woman, i seen some people claim ''all women'' dont like Jade's design, wich i find silly to  put us all under the same light.

Edited June 24 by Mama_Sasha
Added some clarity

[Cr4zyDoc]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb Mama_Sasha:

There was also some dark themes in the New War, but nobody gave a crap then (both quests even had a warning for us to go trough with a word to type).
As for Jade, nothing wrong with her design, since as someone already stated, its just a copy of an original, so technicly she isnt pregnant, and im saying this as a woman myself, i like her design, i find her both beautiful and cute. I just simply seeing it for what it is, just symbolism for life (Her support role).

Edit: For stating im a woman, i seen some people claim ''all women'' dont like Jade's design, wich i find silly to  put us all under the same light.

Exactly! not to forget we are basically controlling a child on the battlefield (what age is our operator? 10? 12?) 

[Mama_Sasha]

Just now, Cr4zyDoc said:

Exactly! not to forget we are basically controlling a child on the battlefield (what age is our operator? 10? 12?) 

They are teens at best i believe (The Drifter being the adult). The exact age im not certain, but clearly is made as child soldiers, wich Umbra had no problem strangling btw.

[Chewarette]

9 minutes ago, Cr4zyDoc said:

Exactly! not to forget we are basically controlling a child on the battlefield (what age is our operator? 10? 12?) 

The New War even has a teenager being stabbed in the back by a dude with a dangling leg, after said dude has cut off the hand of the person we ourselves view as our mother and sent her (and us) to "Hell", but somehow Jade Shadows triggers people because "omg potential baby that we're not even sure exists might die!"

[Mama_Sasha]

4 minutes ago, Chewarette said:

The New War even has a teenager being stabbed in the back by a dude with a dangling leg, after said dude has cut off the hand of the person we ourselves view as our mother and sent her (and us) to "Hell", but somehow Jade Shadows triggers people because "omg potential baby that we're not even sure exists might die!"

The same guy who is named the same as a GTA San Andreas gang, also called her a female dog name. Was there any complaints there? Not so sure.

Honestly, its getting pretty silly if you ask me.

[Oreades]

10 minutes ago, Mama_Sasha said:

Honestly, its getting pretty silly if you ask me.

Getting? Safe spaces in videogames have been "silly" forever, yet this particular safe space is where you draw the line?

[Mama_Sasha]

28 minutes ago, Oreades said:

Getting? Safe spaces in videogames have been "silly" forever, yet this particular safe space is where you draw the line?

I meant overall ofcorse. I know that the whole scene have been silly for a long time now.
Edit: Also to clarify, im not a native english speaker (not american nor british), so i used the word not propperly.

Edited June 24 by Mama_Sasha
fixed typo and added calrity

[spider_enigma]

5 hours ago, Mama_Sasha said:

Kinda like those biblically accurate angels.

Personaly i do like her design and the themes surrounding her.

even moves like an eye

[TenZero]

On 2024-06-21 at 10:14 AM, Chewarette said:

But you're fine with teenagers being the main protagonists of such acts of war, which includes ripping souls off with Nekros or being stabbed in the back by a two-handed blade ?

Then it's a you problem.

Just consider the energy orb in her belly is an energy orb in her belly, you'll be fine.

Or don't play her. Who cares.

Exactly, people drawing the line at a depiction of maternity is what makes me uncomfortable

[inappropriatename5877]

Disclaimer, I'm not attacking you, I'm attacking the points people have made (which you have beautifully laid out) about feeling uncomfortable about Jade and her design. I am attacking their reasoning and their frame of mind. Would a toggle or a free alt skin change my gameplay experience? Not in the slightest. However, I feel that people are going overboard with their questionable fervor for her supposed problematic design.

 

On 2024-06-23 at 4:30 PM, 0bsi said:

the idea of playing a frame that may or may not have what the player considers a baby inside, makes some people uncomfortable

Ok so should people's interpretation of what might or could there be, or what a player might consider there to be, be grounds for such "outrage"? In game, the belly only hosts some swirly energy. There is nothing to interpret there, it is clearly visible. Unless of course people want to equate that energy to a fetus or something. People can create meaning out of nothing, and I believe this is such a situation.

 

On 2024-06-23 at 4:30 PM, 0bsi said:

For some people part of the issue is that Jade in the quest served only as dying womb to give Stalker's story more meaning

This is actually one of the more understandable points. I too would love to see her more in action, in that quest, but this too, is still not grounds for wanting her changed.

 

 

On 2024-06-23 at 4:30 PM, 0bsi said:

For some people, part of the issue is wondering if the type of game that brings us the red text "gemussy" among other things, is the right sort of place for a pregnant frame, or if it's stepping into fetish territory

Look, this is the internet. When Grendel came out, people were referring to him as the vore frame (and some still do, jokingly). A lot of fanart involves him as well, in a fetish that is reminiscent of him or his abilities. People can sexualize literally anything. Is it necessarily good or bad? Who knows? The point is, if people feeld uncomfortable because a character in a game might get sexualized through fanart, they should not play any game. Also, checking out and engaging with such fanart is a choice, you could just not.

 

 

On 2024-06-23 at 4:30 PM, 0bsi said:

There are also those who have suffered childbirth related trauma

Which is extremely sad, but there are also people who could have suffered fire related traumas (Ember), obesity related illnesses (Grendel), physical abuse (Valkyr), or maybe SA from a religious figure in their community (Harrow). Should DE (or any game company for that matter) redesign each and every character in order not to trigger people? I'm not trying to dismiss traumas here, I'm just pointing out that trying to keep literally every person not triggered is logistically impossible.

[AL_aegir]

6 hours ago, inappropriatename5877 said:

Which is extremely sad, but there are also people who could have suffered fire related traumas (Ember), obesity related illnesses (Grendel), physical abuse (Valkyr), or maybe SA from a religious figure in their community (Harrow). Should DE (or any game company for that matter) redesign each and every character in order not to trigger people? I'm not trying to dismiss traumas here, I'm just pointing out that trying to keep literally every person not triggered is logistically impossible.

Consider this: How many people are actually affected by either of those 3, compared to: loosing a child during pregnancy/birth/just after, maybe with a side of loosing their ovaries ontop, or straight up cant get pregnant, and have a really unpleasant reminder attached to jade? id say. its less a "not trigger anyone" and more a "this affects a significant portion of the playerbase"

[inappropriatename5877]

4 hours ago, AL_aegir said:

Consider this: How many people are actually affected by either of those 3, compared to: loosing a child during pregnancy/birth/just after, maybe with a side of loosing their ovaries ontop, or straight up cant get pregnant, and have a really unpleasant reminder attached to jade? id say. its less a "not trigger anyone" and more a "this affects a significant portion of the playerbase"

To have childbirth related trauma you need to either
1) have a uterus
2) be in a relationship with someone that does

To have the issues I mentioned requires none of the above. This alone should indicate that the issues I mentioned can impact a greater amount of people, therefore impacting an even more significant portion of the playerbase.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 36 Minuten schrieb inappropriatename5877:

To have childbirth related trauma you need to either
1) have a uterus
2) be in a relationship with someone that does

To have the issues I mentioned requires none of the above. This alone should indicate that the issues I mentioned can impact a greater amount of people, therefore impacting an even more significant portion of the playerbase.

Are you a doctor or an expert in the field and can you prove it?
Because it hit me very hard and personally... if someone writes that as someone who thinks they know something, then their common sense will quickly run out...

[inappropriatename5877]

3 minutes ago, Venus-Venera said:

Are you a doctor or an expert in the field and can you prove it?

Are YOU one? I replied with the same kind of logic you used, except that I thought about the possible percentage of people that can get affected by childbirth related trauma vs the trauma I mentioned. Think of it like so: Let's say you have 100 people. Half of them are men, and half of them are women.

How many of them can have issues with their uteri or ovaries? Only the women.
How many of them can have issues with obesity? All of them.

How many of them can experience childbirth trauma? All of them, but only if they are in a relationship. (there could be a debate to the degrees of separation one could have from the initial experience, but for the sake of the argument we are talking about the ones that are immediately and most affected)
How many of them can experience physical or sexual abuse? All of them, unconditionally.

[Venus-Venera]

Gerade eben schrieb inappropriatename5877:

Are YOU one? I replied with the same kind of logic you used

It's not about me....
and what logic is it about? Exact details are urgently needed. so examples and exact quotes are urgently needed

[inappropriatename5877]

I have to apologize, I thought I was replying to AL_aegir (I thought the icons were the same). Ok then, this changes some things. I didn't reply with the same kind of logic YOU used, I replied with the logic AL_Aegir used. They said: " id say. its less a "not trigger anyone" and more a "this affects a significant portion of the playerbase" "

"I'd say" = "I assume" or "My opinion is" . Everyone can have opinions on something without being experts. You don't need to be a Michelin Star chef in order to see that the food is burnt. In these replies, I am attempting to attack his logic about the percentage of the playerbase that has such trauma.

You, instead of attacking the logic I used, decided to attack my credibility, which is not how you effectively argue with someone.

Edited June 25 by inappropriatename5877

[Athuis]

So what, Pregnant warframes cant fight? She suppose to just sit on a bench instead? Seems offensively stereotypical. Also having this issue in a game with the player committing genocide on a daily basis....Well the irony isn't lost on me. 

And as to subsuming her? Well here's a neat idea, Don't? If it bothers you, then don't do it. Seems like an easy solution.

Edited June 25 by Athuis

[Pneumanoultra]

On 2024-06-24 at 4:02 AM, -LeoSyksy- said:

I don't know what you meant by that comment. Are you agreeing or arguing.  It is not a baby. My point was, that our Jade is not an actual Jade, just like Yareli is not an actual child, or Harrow is an autistic Rell. It is a Warframe copy, capable of wreaking havoc if needed. She doesn't need saving or protecting. :) 

Just an aside, I've met some adult women who had Yareli's proportions or were even smaller. I met one woman who was around 3 feet tall who I initialy thought was a lost child. Small =/= child.

On the other hand, I have never met a non-pregnant woman with Jade's body shape. It's a shape that in nature can only be interpreted as pregnancy.

Granted the Jade we get is basically an RC robot that in theory could be shaped like anything, but the first thing our brains are geared to think of when looking at her is "pregnant woman." Orb or no orb, that's what her shape indicates.

[-LeoSyksy-]

6 hours ago, Pneumanoultra said:

Granted the Jade we get is basically an RC robot that in theory could be shaped like anything, but the first thing our brains are geared to think of when looking at her is "pregnant woman." Orb or no orb, that's what her shape indicates.

Ok. So if we have established that it is not and actual pregnant frame who needs protecting, why does he looks cause people to be uncomforted? Like I'm genuinely asking, bc all I see is a bad ass frame who is powerful and beautiful (and for once even a mimic preggo ladies aren't seen as handicapped, powerless incubators. :P). Why a belly bump make you uncomfortable? If it's just a look, we know there is nothing there. Why can't you just play some other frame that is aesthetically more pleasing? 

[Pneumanoultra]

1 hour ago, -LeoSyksy- said:

Ok. So if we have established that it is not and actual pregnant frame who needs protecting, why does he looks cause people to be uncomforted? Like I'm genuinely asking, bc all I see is a bad ass frame who is powerful and beautiful (and for once even a mimic preggo ladies aren't seen as handicapped, powerless incubators. :P). Why a belly bump make you uncomfortable? If it's just a look, we know there is nothing there. Why can't you just play some other frame that is aesthetically more pleasing? 

I invite you to consider some of the options that are already tucked away in the games menus. Through the menus, we have the option to do the following:

1. Toggle off gore effects.

2. Modify Mandichord volume for yourself or for other players.

3. Disable Ordis, hint transmissions, and operator voice.

That first one I think is for people who are made uncomfortable by an aspect of the game while the second two are to remove something that some players might find annoying. These options take nothing away from people who choose not to use them but improve the game for people who do. Options are never a bad thing.

I've reached the point where I think I'll be comfortable playing Jade. It took some time and customization, but I think I'm happy with her for now. Still, I can understand why people might not want their frame to look a certain way. I don't personally don't use the Grendel Nian skin when I play Grendel because it looks like he has a big waggly dong with a piercing on the end, but I'm fine with it existing since I as a player have the option not to use it. I don't think a lot of people here necessarily have a problem with pregnant-looking Jade, just the fact that it's the only option.

[-LeoSyksy-]

7 hours ago, Pneumanoultra said:

I invite you to consider some of the options that are already tucked away in the games menus. Through the menus, we have the option to do the following:

1. Toggle off gore effects.

2. Modify Mandichord volume for yourself or for other players.

3. Disable Ordis, hint transmissions, and operator voice.

That first one I think is for people who are made uncomfortable by an aspect of the game while the second two are to remove something that some players might find annoying. These options take nothing away from people who choose not to use them but improve the game for people who do. Options are never a bad thing.

I've reached the point where I think I'll be comfortable playing Jade. It took some time and customization, but I think I'm happy with her for now. Still, I can understand why people might not want their frame to look a certain way. I don't personally don't use the Grendel Nian skin when I play Grendel because it looks like he has a big waggly dong with a piercing on the end, but I'm fine with it existing since I as a player have the option not to use it. I don't think a lot of people here necessarily have a problem with pregnant-looking Jade, just the fact that it's the only option.

I understand your reasoning, people don't like all content. Though her belly is hardly at the same category as literal bloody body parts, mandachord's ear reaping terror what ppl usually put for max damage, or the repetitive chatter we hear all day long (at least not imo). You, as a player do not even see her belly most of the time. I am sure she will get some luxury skin later on that changes the appearance, like Yareli went from quirky teen to a maneater clam (?). :D  I do agree with the Grendel's 'prince albert' dong. Like what were they thinking? :D

I just got her from the oven few days ago and I'm still learning how to use her. She seems cool, but i't not as good as Mag <3.