Jade is making me and a lot of other people uncomfortable

[zcoombs]

Just spent the last hour reading through this whole thread and wanted to give my two cents:

I personally have no problems with Jade’s design, nor would I take issue with an optional toggle or deluxe skin.

The primary argument I can see against it is the theme/story aspect, with the pregnancy (and death) being connected to her life and death theming as well as a major factor of Stalker’s story. As for appearances, I’ve seen people make frames completely unrecognizable with attachments and the like, a toggle or skin wouldn’t be much different.

And the whole ethical implications of “removing” a pregnancy… I for one am in the camp that Jade isn’t actually pregnant. We’ve had several quests about collecting warframe parts, and in all of those cases we’re basically rebuilding their corpses to pilot. The fact that we literally put Limbo’s pieces back together comes in mind. The copy from the foundry is created from a blueprint created from the warframe in the state we find them, or in Jade’s case, likely salvaged by Hunhow either as she died or from the motes she left behind (her remains). In either case, Sirius/Orion has already been born at the time she is copied, which also partially explains why the copy isn’t sick: The child isn’t draining her. As for the animations, it seems as though every warframe leaves fragments of their original personality behind, as seen in their animation sets, and why WOULDN’T her emotions be focused on her belly when she had been pregnant her entire time as a warframe, her condition had been KILLING her, and she died giving birth. That would leave echos. If she isn’t actually carrying a child, there shouldn’t be an ethical issue in removing the belly besides the potential implication of being ashamed of her appearance, which, considering the body horror that is the creation of ANY warframe and the nonsense that is putting skins on them, doesn’t hold up very well.

Little lore rant aside, even if I personally have no objections to adding a toggle or skin, the choice is DE’s not anyone in this form’s. If they decide to add it to help more players feel comfortable with the frame, great! If they decide that doing so would be against their artistic or story design, or that they would prefer to focus on other things, that’s their choice and we need to respect it. To me, this topic has gotten way too heated for an issue that, in the end, is up to the devs. They undoubtedly know that Jade is making some people uncomfortable, and no amount of arguing here will change that. They’ll either add an option or they won’t, and that isn’t for us to decide.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

[(XBOX)Omega399]

1 hour ago, zcoombs said:

I for one am in the camp that Jade isn’t actually pregnant. We’ve had several quests about collecting warframe parts, and in all of those cases we’re basically rebuilding their corpses to pilot. The fact that we literally put Limbo’s pieces back together comes in mind. The copy from the foundry is created from a blueprint created from the warframe in the state we find them, or in Jade’s case, likely salvaged by Hunhow either as she died or from the motes she left behind (her remains). In either case, Sirius/Orion has already been born at the time she is copied, which also partially explains why the copy isn’t sick: The child isn’t draining her. As for the animations, it seems as though every warframe leaves fragments of their original personality behind, as seen in their animation sets, and why WOULDN’T her emotions be focused on her belly when she had been pregnant her entire time as a warframe, her condition had been KILLING her, and she died giving birth. That would leave echos.

I actually saw a point raised in another thread theorizing she might not have actually even been pregnant prior to her reunion with the Stalker technically, at least not in a traditional sense.

Tl;dr of it was to interpret the description of her double aura passive ("a profound understanding of the relationship between life and death") in the most literal sense, and then consider some relevant series that did some things similar trope-wise (stop me if you recognize these quotes: "we can't both exist. I'm going to become half of you, and I need you to know that every moment you love being yourself, that's me loving you, and loving being you. You're going to be something extraordinary." and "either must die at the hand of the other; for neither can live while the other survives")

[WanderingJoe]

I'm gonna stop you right there with the Steven universe and Harry potter quotes.

I think people are looking at these posts as an attack on Jade. Let me try and switch things up so you maybe some of you who disagree with us can see our side a little more clearly. Okay so the posts are about Jade (already contradicting myself. Great start) but from the context that the posts about part of the player play's reaction to her. Jade's design is one in which has caused disease among part of, not all, of the players and no one large section of those affected share the same reason why. The posts contained within this thread was meant to be more about sharing our personal reasons as to give DE insight as to why we think they went too far with thier final design. It's meant to be feedback on thier creation. At the very least I can confidently say something like this isn't likely to happen again as a result of these discussions. 

The second part of this thread was meant to be an appeal to DE to give the disgruntled players a tool (toggle, auxiliary, alternate/deluxe skin, what have you) to manage thier own experience going forward with Jade and __not__ in any way to take away from the players who either currently like her design or don't care, the later of which I think are the majority of players that don't share our viewpoint. Unfortunately, just as I stated that this thread was about player reaction to Jade, everything has devolved into  "why are you guys complaining?" "It doesn't matter so don't even try, Get over it!" or my favorite "Don't you understand that DE would have to put in more resources and time into this if they thought about what you guys want? They could be using them for things I want instead!" Seriously guys. You don't work for DE. It's not your job to manage what kind of efforts they put towards thier game.

I won't say discourse doesn't have it's place here, but I think the conversation has just devolved into way too much back and forth between the "why's" and "why not's". I'd much rather have someone tell us why they enjoyed Jade's design and thus disagreed with us than telling us we shouldn't bring up our concerns in the first place.

Edited Thursday at 02:10 PM by WanderingJoe

[SneakyErvin]

23 hours ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

I dont think anyone actually thinks she is still pregnant after witnessing her having the baby, and not being able to see a baby in her stomach. It makes more sense to me that shes being regarded to as a pregnant warframe because she looks like one.

But maybe its just me, just doesnt add up people would still thinks shes pregnant after the quest

My issue is that she looks pregnant atleast

Yet we have people that specifically say "as a pregnant" WF. Even in this thread, with quotes to other posts aswell. So it is at that point all in their head. Which makes it odd that they ask for a belly removal, since if the frame is pregnant in their head it would be just as pregnant after, since you arent just pregnant when the belly is that size.

And yeah I agree, it doesnt add up, since it is as if they didnt grasp the quest at all, or just skipped through it all.

And that is fine, but it is also by design, the vision of the creator etc. I've said it from the beginning, the belly was there before the baby was ever part of it. And funnily enough Reb recently also confirmed that theory. We are in the end playing WF, where #*!%ed up visuals and perverted versions of the human body is the bread and butter of frames. From guts showing, to looking like they've been scooped out or exploded from the inside, or as if they've been through medevial torture or belong to the cenobites. We even have one walking around with an obscene amount of daggers stabbed into him. Like... what do people expect? 🤷‍♂️

22 hours ago, Ha1p said:

What "rest"? Were there a bunch of threads about these other phobias?

That is my point. The rest are sensible enough to not make threads about demands to change things base on their phobias.

34 minutes ago, WanderingJoe said:

Seriously guys. You don't work for DE. It's not your job to manage what kind of efforts they put towards thier game.

We still have our full right to an opinion regarding something that would effect us. So yes those people are correct, the resources spent on doing something to remove her belly for you guys, could be spent on something that is potentially instead for everyone.

Edited Thursday at 02:46 PM by SneakyErvin

[WanderingJoe]

15 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

So yes those people are correct, the resources spent on doing something to remove her belly for you guys, could be spent on something that is potentially instead for everyone.

You're thinking too tangentially. You don't go to a movie theater and tell someone they can't write a letter to the owner because it might affect how they fix a bathroom you don't use when they could be adding another popcorn machine with that money

Edited Thursday at 02:57 PM by WanderingJoe

[SneakyErvin]

35 minutes ago, WanderingJoe said:

You're thinking too tangentially. You don't go to a movie theater and tell someone they can't write a letter to the owner because it might affect how they fix a bathroom you don't use when they could be adding another popcorn machine with that money

Poor analogy.

Jade is for instance not broken. So in your analogy it would be more like the guy is sending a letter asking for a change specifically to the bathroom he uses, or maybe his seat in the theater because something with it is bugging him. While the other guy is saying, well that time could be spent on something that benefits every visitor instead. No one here is saying you cant have an opinion, they are just weighing in with their imput aswell, and they are correct in doing so, and correct in their imput aswell. Since when time and resources are placed towards something, then something else wont see that time and those resources.

You telling them that they shouldnt bring up those things is effectively you being the guy you claim others are.

edit: Also just a fun general question to those that demand this belly removal. Would you be willing to pay for an alternate skin?

Edited Thursday at 03:31 PM by SneakyErvin

[WanderingJoe]

23 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

they are just weighing in with their imput aswell,

Right but the input is that you shouldn't give your input because they have something they think is more important-

See this is what I meant about arguing about why and why not. This is a circular argument.

Look, I'd like an alternate appearance for Jade. I'll leave things at that.

Edited Friday at 03:19 PM by WanderingJoe

[WanderingJoe]

23 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Also just a fun general question to those that demand this belly removal. Would you be willing to pay for an alternate skin?

Absolutely. An "expensive" option is better than no option. Give me a deluxe skin, whatever, I'll take it.

Not demanding though. Requesting. I say what I say with full realization that there's more of a chance than not that any cosmetic changes for Jade will take a while. Like... DE soon(tm) amount of time

Edited Thursday at 03:55 PM by WanderingJoe

[SneakyErvin]

15 minutes ago, WanderingJoe said:

Right but the input is that you shouldn't give your input because they have something they think is more important-

See this is what I meant about arguing about why and why not. This is a circular argument.

Look, I'd like an alternat appearance for Jade. I'll leave things at that.

If they tell you to not have an opinion and voice it they are wrong yes. But if they just highlight how things pan out it is their full right, since that is their opinion. And I'm fully with them, since I think new thing for a wider audience is more appealing than doing something so very specific that will likely see little return. While at the same time also telling the artist that did Jade that he/she didnt do a good job.

[WanderingJoe]

30 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

But if they just highlight how things pan out it is their full right, since that is their opinion.

Okay this part I can agree on. Disagreeing opinions are not the same as telling people to not voice thier opinions at all. I can get behind disagreeing opinions.

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

On 2024-07-03 at 10:38 PM, RichardKam said:

That's how games die LOL. Over Waframe 10 years of history, how many times did DE ask for player vote on something? How many times did DE gave in to mob tactics? "Heirloom! Dante!" I can hear. How about ammo nerf? AoE nerf? Wukong nerf? Glaive nerf? All the nerf in history? How about the whole status rework? Archon shard? Did DE ask you before introducing them? No. You are merely informed.

... What?.. all those changes were made to address personal feedback... Im not sure about wukongs change, but the rest were. I hated hearing those complaints over and over back then, its why i still remember them, and the devstreams DE put out addressing those concerns. "People keep killing too quickly, i cant get any kills, we hate ember" and "other weapons cant keep up with AoE weapons, theyre too op" etc... So due to personal feelings, guess what happened?

So, yeah. 

On 2024-07-03 at 10:38 PM, RichardKam said:

but in fact players do not know what they wanted.

I always get so baffled when people say this as its not correct at all, and most examples people use for it are astoundingly horrid.

You ever watched a show called FairlyOdd Parents? A boy named Timmy will go to a fairy and ask for something and he'll technically get what he wants but it wont be in the way he wants it, as theres an intense amount of ways that his wish can still technically be satisfied. This happens in real life too.

We see this happen when we asked for weapons to be more in line with AoE weapons, which lead to the AoE nerf you mentioned. The issue isnt that people didnt know what we wanted, the issue is that theres about million different ways to do what was being asked, and its hard to figure out the best solution that satisfies everyones needs.

On 2024-07-03 at 10:38 PM, RichardKam said:

"we want more warframe content". DE gave you exactly this. Warframe mission in Corpusjack. People hated it. That was a harsh lesson. That was how Railjack die.

And this, is the most obvious example of the Fairly Odd Parents issue.... DE made many promises that were not delievered in the way they said they would be. All the Community (or Timmy) asked for DE to do, is what DE said they would do! And add the warframe content they showed us at tennocon! The DEVs (or Cosmo) gave us "Corpusjack" which was anything but what they showed us at tennocon and im sure DE knew it wasnt what we asked for. It was just a warframe mission with your railjack just being there just to be there, as railjack became completely irrelevant when the mission started.

Railjack died due to high promises without follow through. DE mentions the issues they had with the promises,  realizing they didnt give what they showed and what we were hyped for, and said from that day onward theyd start making adjustments to the way they give information to the public, so we wouldnt get another railjack hype train, with no delivery 

_______

Id continue but this is time consuming, ill just say that you can argue that peoples ideas/suggestions for changes are not always good, no human has the best ideas always, we arent perfect and all would have our Cosmo moments

But you cant argue with the significance of personal feeling for gaming, as it is the only reason people play games at all. Which is why that it is no surprise that peoples feeling is the driving force for 95% of changes that happen to existing content, in games everywhere. Once their overall opinions of the game becomes too negative, they leave. 

Edited Friday at 08:18 PM by (PSN)Frost_Nephilim

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

We even have one walking around with an obscene amount of daggers stabbed into him. Like... what do people expect? 🤷‍♂️

Word... 

[latetier]

3 hours ago, WanderingJoe said:

I'm gonna stop you right there with the Steven universe and Harry potter quotes.

I think people are looking at these posts as an attack on Jade. Let me try and switch things up so you maybe some of you who disagree with us can see our side a little more clearly. Okay so the posts are about Jade (already contradicting myself. Great start) but from the context that the posts about part of the player play's reaction to her. Jade's design is one in which has caused disease among part of, not all, of the players and no one large section of those affected share the same reason why. The posts contained within this thread was meant to be more about sharing our personal reasons as to give DE insight as to why we think they went too far with thier final design. It's meant to be feedback on thier creation. At the very least I can confidently say something like this isn't likely to happen again as a result of these discussions. 

The second part of this thread was meant to be an appeal to DE to give the disgruntled players a tool (toggle, auxiliary, alternate/deluxe skin, what have you) to manage thier own experience going forward with Jade and __not__ in any way to take away from the players who either currently like her design or don't care, the later of which I think are the majority of players that don't share our viewpoint. Unfortunately, just as I stated that this thread was about player reaction to Jade, everything has devolved into  "why are you guys complaining?" "It doesn't matter so don't even try, Get over it!" or my favorite "Don't you understand that DE would have to put in more resources and time into this if they thought about what you guys want? They could be using them for things I want instead!" Seriously guys. You don't work for DE. It's not your job to manage what kind of efforts they put towards thier game.

I won't say discourse doesn't have it's place here, but I think the conversation has just devolved into way too much back and forth between the "why's" and "why not's". I'd much rather have someone tell us why they enjoyed Jade's design and thus disagreed with us than telling us we shouldn't bring up our concerns in the first place.

discourse has its place but what these people are trying to do isn't discourse. all they are doing is trying to invalidate the people who want a toggles opinion. that is not discourse or discussion.

Edited Thursday at 05:27 PM by latetier

[WanderingJoe]

1 minute ago, latetier said:

all they are doing is trying to invalidate someone elses opinion. that is not discourse or discussion.

Right. Though, I suppose I can understand the Warframe community's wariness. I remember a certain someone who said universal medallions shouldn't be universal. We're not asking for something that would affect everyone arbitrarily though.

[Shidonia]

Jade is a Warframe. She isn’t capable of creating something out of nothing like a human.
 

The core in her belly can only become a baby if Jade stops existing.
 

Basically she is the Cibo of Warframe. In order for the frame to protect it’s integrity she has to keep her baby core because that’s the only thing that reminds her of her human days. Her wings are protecting her so I don’t understand why and how it can make someone uncomfortable. 
 

If you are uncomfortable with that there is a lot of different frames you can use.

[SneakyErvin]

20 hours ago, latetier said:

discourse has its place but what these people are trying to do isn't discourse. all they are doing is trying to invalidate the people who want a toggles opinion. that is not discourse or discussion.

How is it invalidation to bring up both questions regarding why people feel this way and while bringing up the obscene nature that is and has always been Warframe and more particularly warframes themselves. Perversion and the extreme has always been part of frame design. And that real world "morals" are broken across all of the game has always also been a thing.

Then as this simply comes down to people having a problem with aestethics, it becomes even more obscure to understand them (you?) as they play this already extremely obscene, perverted and practically immoral game. And as people have said "but there is a point where things go too far", well, that is a line that was crossed so many many years ago without anyone voicing an opinion over it.

And to be perfectly clear I dont think any of these things are wrong in the game, I'm just stating it to bring perspective to what people are currently complaining over compared to what is already all over the game if you have problems with "morals" etc.

[WanderingJoe]

35 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Perversion and the extreme has always been part of frame design.

...What? Okay, this just got real. What do you mean perversion has always been a part of warframe design? How are you applying that word here to Jade?

[PublikDomain]

21 hours ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

Word... 

Daggers which can be... hidden? 🤔

[PR1D3]

1 hour ago, WanderingJoe said:

...What? Okay, this just got real. What do you mean perversion has always been a part of warframe design? How are you applying that word here to Jade?

Bro. Bro. Are you serious? Do you even play WF? Do you pay attention to any of the stuff that goes on around here? We're kind of a clown show. Some frames absolutely do have lewd designs and no one pretends otherwise that they don't. We literally had a devstream where the devs and community was highlighting Ember Heirloom's ass. All the times that Rhino's Codpiece and even Wisp's ass is mentioned. 

[latetier]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

How is it invalidation to bring up both questions regarding why people feel this way and while bringing up the obscene nature that is and has always been Warframe and more particularly warframes themselves. Perversion and the extreme has always been part of frame design. And that real world "morals" are broken across all of the game has always also been a thing.

Then as this simply comes down to people having a problem with aestethics, it becomes even more obscure to understand them (you?) as they play this already extremely obscene, perverted and practically immoral game. And as people have said "but there is a point where things go too far", well, that is a line that was crossed so many many years ago without anyone voicing an opinion over it.

And to be perfectly clear I dont think any of these things are wrong in the game, I'm just stating it to bring perspective to what people are currently complaining over compared to what is already all over the game if you have problems with "morals" etc.

who asked you to try to understand why? you understanding why doesnt let de put a toggle for the people that want it. again with the strawman pointless arguement that never address the point, players want a toggle and are hoping de puts a toggle. DE, not you.

Edited Friday at 04:35 PM by latetier

[WanderingJoe]

1 hour ago, PR1D3 said:

Bro. Bro. Are you serious? Do you even play WF? Do you pay attention to any of the stuff that goes on around here? We're kind of a clown show.

So, just to confirm, you're saying jade's divergence from the design from other warframe designs is because of perversion? This is quite the tone shift from how the discussion was going earlier.

Edited Friday at 05:27 PM by WanderingJoe

[Kaelzoroden]

5 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

How is it invalidation to bring up both questions regarding why people feel this way and while bringing up the obscene nature that is and has always been Warframe and more particularly warframes themselves. Perversion and the extreme has always been part of frame design. And that real world "morals" are broken across all of the game has always also been a thing.

Then as this simply comes down to people having a problem with aestethics, it becomes even more obscure to understand them (you?) as they play this already extremely obscene, perverted and practically immoral game. And as people have said "but there is a point where things go too far", well, that is a line that was crossed so many many years ago without anyone voicing an opinion over it.

And to be perfectly clear I dont think any of these things are wrong in the game, I'm just stating it to bring perspective to what people are currently complaining over compared to what is already all over the game if you have problems with "morals" etc.

This feels a little bit like a bad faith argument.

You're completely ignoring the fact that pregnancy or violence towards pregnant women is a sensitive issue for a lot of people, especially anyone who has lost a pregnancy that they wanted. People aren't generally going to have their trauma poked at by the presence of butts or codpieces, and in other examples where a core element of the characters appearance could trigger trauma, such as Kullervo, they gave us the option to hide the knives permanently poking out of him.

DE already acknowledged that there are sensitive themes being dealt with here, as shown with the warning at the beginning of the quest. Those don't crop up a lot, and pretty clearly show that this isn't a run-of-the-mill type of character with a bog-standard level of strangeness to them. The simple truth is, regardless of any rationalization or justification from people who are too hard-hearted to understand that others might be struggling with something, the aesthetics of this warframe make her impossible to enjoy for some non-negligible portion of the playerbase.

Kullervo actually uses the knives stuck in him for some of his abilities, and we can STILL turn those off because they're a problem for some people. Jade's kit, on the other hand, has zero gameplay connection to the themes of being pregnant—mechanically her stuff is meant to feel angelic, and there's nothing in there relating to any sort of motherhood or using her belly as part of her abilities. I don't feel like the argument can be made that the belly is critical to leave in place, when elements that are more core to the gameplay of other frames can be hidden while the belly is a purely aesthetic component with no bearing whatsoever on gameplay.

Edited Friday at 07:07 PM by Kaelzoroden

[Luigispikachu]

Hey, back again to mention that the toggle will literally only affect the people who toggle it. Someone else toggling it off isn't going to turn yours off. Someone putting on a skin doesn't change your skin.

 

What would effect you is if you played jade, joined a lobby and the host has trauma flashbacks or some negative reaction to you playing baby on board and alt f4ing or closing applications and host migrationing you possibly breaking your mission.

 

And it's not for you to decide if a toggle is too much effort, unless you literally have the [DE] in your username and you've just gotten off the phone with pablo. Or steve. Or like anyone remotely involved with making game worky. "I have game dev experience!" So do I. But I'm not pretending to know how things are made at warframe hq. So you lot can drop that line.

 

Also, why are there a subset of people acting like there's only one correct way to enjoy a warframe? That's wrong, there's so many ways to enjoy a warframe, because there's so many people who, and stay with me now, use skins that change the design of the frame. Shocker huh? Yeah, your skins for other characters aren't accurate to their original design (I'm looking at you yareli deluxe. But not for long cuz you ugly)

 

Look, I've seen so many of these points thrown around in bad faith. wHaT aBoUt OtHeR fRaMeS tHaT tRiGgEr? Kulervo and the togglable knives. Styanax's skin with the toggleable nipples. Voruna can have the wolves removed. You know why using necros and citrine as examples doesn't work? Because this didn't happen with them. Because people didn't come to the forum and express concerns and discomfort. And if they did? I'd support them.

 

So like, can we please discuss this like we are sensible adults on the internet? Can we put the bad faith and malicious nonarguments to bed? I haven't seen anyone give me a reason to why the toggle bad.one person I asked that to decided to hit me with "but what if gender toggle" as if it was a sensible counterpoint (spoiler, it's not)

[PublikDomain]

2 hours ago, Luigispikachu said:

So like, can we please discuss this like we are sensible adults on the internet?

But that would require a basic level of decency and empathy :(

[SneakyErvin]

On 2024-07-05 at 4:42 PM, WanderingJoe said:

...What? Okay, this just got real. What do you mean perversion has always been a part of warframe design? How are you applying that word here to Jade?

How did it "just got real"? Are you not familiar with what a perversion of something is. Everything in WF is a perversion of something normal i.e something twisted and altered while still there to show the origin. Think chaos in warhammer, something normal turned so abnormal through perversion, such as things that possibly could not live walking around filled with diseases, while also still retaining insane martial expertise, or pleasure practically turned into embodyments. You can also think of the cenobites, or demons in say Evil Dead, that either embrace and enhance human states, conditions, desires and feelings or makes straight mockeries out of the human body.

So Jade is that, a perversion of a human body, like most frames, depicted as a pregnant woman. Just as you have Nekros, designed to resemble a corpse, a sculpted corpse if you will, with the prime starting to show internal parts etc. Or Citrine that looks like if a human body had burst from the inside. Then you have the tenno that are a perversion of morals in our own world, children fighting on the frontline while also mindcontrolling subjects to do their bidding. Aswell as things most of the world go "OK not cool!" over, like desecrating corpses.

23 hours ago, latetier said:

who asked you to try to understand why? you understanding why doesnt let de put a toggle for the people that want it. again with the strawman pointless arguement that never address the point, players want a toggle and are hoping de puts a toggle. DE, not you.

That is a very narrowminded answer. If you cant furmulate the why, what is there to say that DE would accept a "cos I say so!" from the community. As people claim this has a drastic impact on them one way or another, formulating how wouldnt be too hard. Unless it is all just a bunch of people jumping the wagon just to complain about something. I mean we've already seen plenty of people having issues with Jade because they've made up their own story about the frame they actually play.

20 hours ago, Kaelzoroden said:

This feels a little bit like a bad faith argument.

You're completely ignoring the fact that pregnancy or violence towards pregnant women is a sensitive issue for a lot of people, especially anyone who has lost a pregnancy that they wanted. People aren't generally going to have their trauma poked at by the presence of butts or codpieces, and in other examples where a core element of the characters appearance could trigger trauma, such as Kullervo, they gave us the option to hide the knives permanently poking out of him.

DE already acknowledged that there are sensitive themes being dealt with here, as shown with the warning at the beginning of the quest. Those don't crop up a lot, and pretty clearly show that this isn't a run-of-the-mill type of character with a bog-standard level of strangeness to them. The simple truth is, regardless of any rationalization or justification from people who are too hard-hearted to understand that others might be struggling with something, the aesthetics of this warframe make her impossible to enjoy for some non-negligible portion of the playerbase.

Kullervo actually uses the knives stuck in him for some of his abilities, and we can STILL turn those off because they're a problem for some people. Jade's kit, on the other hand, has zero gameplay connection to the themes of being pregnant—mechanically her stuff is meant to feel angelic, and there's nothing in there relating to any sort of motherhood or using her belly as part of her abilities. I don't feel like the argument can be made that the belly is critical to leave in place, when elements that are more core to the gameplay of other frames can be hidden while the belly is a purely aesthetic component with no bearing whatsoever on gameplay.

And using child soldiers and mindcontrolling subjects isnt an issue? And I'm fairly sure Kullervo did not have his appearance removable due to any trauma, but more in order for it to not screw over fashion. Since well, you cant get away from violent trauma in a game dedicated to shear violence by removing a couple of daggers inserted into a skin. That would just be so utterly stupid.

Yes, due to the death of a mother. The Jade you play is neither pregnant nor a mother. It is a clone of the frame since Jade is no more at that point. She is stardust and energy somewhere in the universe at that point. And as I and others have said from the beginning, her belly is the reason she was able to carry a child, the child is not the reason for her belly. So there was never a "thin" Jade in exsistance. And if people cannot get the canon right, the size of her belly wont matter, since she will still be a pregnant woman in combat in that case, because the belly doesnt define a pregnancy since it is an ordeal spanning 9 months, or in Jade's case thousands of years. So if those people cannot rationalize and accept the fact of the canon regarding the frame, canon now also confirmed by DE, there they wouldnt be able to rationalize the frame even with the lack of a belly.

Again no, it isnt because of a problem for people. It is due to fashion. Same as we can remove prime shoulder pieces and several other auxilleries on other frames. If it was due to issues you'd think we've have several other different options aswell regarding other frames, or warning is quests, like when a certain someone impales our frame, or have options to remove us impaling people, or turn our melee weapons and guns into foam sticks and Nerfs. And uhm Jade is using her belly for abilities, All of her pew-pew comes from that belly while she uses her 4th. The belly is critical, since it is the design of a jade light mote chamber, since we use the same design as we do ascension, just at a larger scale. 

It is also not only the gameplay, but the vision of the artist that made her. There has always been a reason behind that belly, it just happened to also fit in order to add a new twist to the game through Stalkers story. Neither in the lore nor in the design has the belly been a product of Jade carrying the baby, in both cases the belly has simply been there, and allowed them to add a baby since it would work with the already exsisting design of the frame. Heck, we even see her during the Old War with the belly 1000-ish years prior to the events of the Jade Shadows quest.

I wonder if people would have complained the same if Jade was released completely unrelated to the quest.

Edited Saturday at 03:29 PM by SneakyErvin