I dislike the new resistances/status/armor rework.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb kuciol:

Its not status sugestions, its dmg type sugestions. Two very different and distinct things.

why do you think that it is really like that? refers very strongly to the highlighted word

[Merkranire]

8 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

The concept is perfectly clear it just didint provide an actual benefit in WF hence why it was bad. It was effectively bad no matter your level since there was always a better solution to the problem at hand i.e a more universal damage type. Except as I said versus solo encounters. When there is a system in place that wants you to build for specific encounters, it shouldnt come out worse when doing so, which is what the system did.

There were several issues with the system. To many health types per mission, heavy units not actually being worth to build against with a damage type and thirdly modding limitations, as in picking one element locks you out from another combination even though we are limited by mod slots already. This results in it being even more counter productive to match a damage type under the old system.

What on earth does any of this have to do with the subject of the damage system? Can you try and stay on subject and not fall back to your idea of fun?

Because I’m not forced into certain combinations, not every combination had armour strip (and even if I had armour strip, it could just as easily be limited by energy so it wasn’t endless), not every combination utilised slash procs (or slash procs simply weren’t as effective) and would instead opt for direct damage, not every combination destroyed everything equally effectively.

And that was fine, because the damage system wasn’t hard to understand despite the fact that its impact was readily felt for so many options and ways to play, and in fact it was an enjoyable thing how it could force me to intertwine my kit and so often I would choose my gear and make my builds and choose the content in order to experience that when I’m looking for it, and even if I wasn’t specifically looking for it and wasn’t actively thinking about it, it often made its presence known regardless just by how I choose to combine my build and the content I’m doing (no extra thought needed, just make a build and jump into some content and there it possibly is, because it permeated everything)

I don’t know how this is so hard for you to grasp. I mean, I do know, in that you haven’t been curious about much aside from whatever lets you grind effectively and thus all you know is whatever that gameplay is like. But I also don’t know how this is so hard to grasp; this concept of not being interested in narrowing one’s selection like you do doesn’t strike me as difficult to understand. I have every combination you use, and every combination you don’t use (which there’s a lot) at my disposal, and every way to use any of them (which once included leveraging a damage type system that introduced wrinkles to a fight) while you, quite pathetically, shove yourself into a little corner and try and convince me it’s ideal. I can’t remember whether you were one of the ones who were trying to be like “Oh, you’re limiting your options!”, because I look at that statement made by either you or players like you, and I laaaaauuugh…

edit: Hey, you remember that Argonak build with all those slots leftover, and your mind shattered at the idea of 5 extra mod slots (6 including the Exilus) and an arcane slot, and you were banging on about loading them up with crap to bring it to Steel Path when I wasn’t taking it to Steel Path? The damage type system had something to say regarding that build, and it wasn’t “Oh, don’t mind me”

Edited June 30 by Merkranire

[MrInubis]

7 hours ago, Venus-Venera said:

why do you think that it is really like that? refers very strongly to the highlighted word

Because those dmg types have bonus upfront dmg against faction? But its sugested not required. Its that simple.

[SneakyErvin]

15 hours ago, Merkranire said:

Because I’m not forced into certain combinations, not every combination had armour strip (and even if I had armour strip, it could just as easily be limited by energy so it wasn’t endless), not every combination utilised slash procs (or slash procs simply weren’t as effective) and would instead opt for direct damage, not every combination destroyed everything equally effectively.

And that was fine, because the damage system wasn’t hard to understand despite the fact that its impact was readily felt for so many options and ways to play, and in fact it was an enjoyable thing how it could force me to intertwine my kit and so often I would choose my gear and make my builds and choose the content in order to experience that when I’m looking for it, and even if I wasn’t specifically looking for it and wasn’t actively thinking about it, it often made its presence known regardless just by how I choose to combine my build and the content I’m doing (no extra thought needed, just make a build and jump into some content and there it possibly is, because it permeated everything)

I don’t know how this is so hard for you to grasp. I mean, I do know, in that you haven’t been curious about much aside from whatever lets you grind effectively and thus all you know is whatever that gameplay is like. But I also don’t know how this is so hard to grasp; this concept of not being interested in narrowing one’s selection like you do doesn’t strike me as difficult to understand. I have every combination you use, and every combination you don’t use (which there’s a lot) at my disposal, and every way to use any of them (which once included leveraging a damage type system that introduced wrinkles to a fight) while you, quite pathetically, shove yourself into a little corner and try and convince me it’s ideal. I can’t remember whether you were one of the ones who were trying to be like “Oh, you’re limiting your options!”, because I look at that statement made by either you or players like you, and I laaaaauuugh…

edit: Hey, you remember that Argonak build with all those slots leftover, and your mind shattered at the idea of 5 extra mod slots (6 including the Exilus) and an arcane slot, and you were banging on about loading them up with crap to bring it to Steel Path when I wasn’t taking it to Steel Path? The damage type system had something to say regarding that build, and it wasn’t “Oh, don’t mind me”

None of what you say has anything to do with the subject. You are again back discussing a completely different thing. The idea of what you or I find fun has nothing to do with it, it doesnt make the old system any better or worse if we find fun in efficiency or not. But this isnt exactly surprising when you manage to bring up your idea of fun in practically any thread you enter, while talking down at everyone else.

So. Try to grasp what is actually discussed i.e the old system itself versus the new. And try to stick to the subject.

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

I think the biggest issue I have with the system is how ... strange some of the resistances are for each faction?

Infested are vulnerable to Slash and Heat. I feel like they shouldn't just be vulnerable to a base element as a main faction, and should instead take extra damage from Gas (it's not like Heat is going to struggle killing them anyways). Making it so their alternate variant on Deimos just has both resistances feels bad. Deimos Infested should probably still be vulnerable to Gas, but resist an extra element you can pair with Gas, like Cold or Electric. You know, like the Kuva Grineer who resist Heat so building for Cold is better?

Sentients and Murmur both being vulnerable to Radiation is also a little weird. Especially since Murmur are also vulnerable to Electric, and you can't get that with a regular combo. I would think the Murmur (or Sentients) would be weak to Blast and Electric instead, as they're a mix between robotic and flesh and you can normally build for that combo. You can also still have Murmur be vulnerable to Radiation if you just make them vulnerable to Toxin as well, since that's the only other combo you can get without the new Radiation Mods and makes more logical sense.

Why are the Narmer vulnerable to just Toxin when they're only Grineer and Corpus? Since you're going to be using Radiation and Cold against the Sentients, and Narmer are usually paired together with them, shouldn't they be vulnerable to Cold AND Toxin instead of Slash and Toxin? Those are the only two elements you can build normally with Radiation so it makes sense that they'd be vulnerable to both. Either that, or take away the Slash vulnerability and make it Impact instead as they have Grineer too, Slash being there makes no sense at all. They are a sub-faction so making them vulnerable to a base element feels more appropriate.

Amalgams on Jupiter also have a really odd set of resistances, they take more damage from Magnetic and Electric, they have the same issue the Murmur do, but resist ... Blast? Who the hell is using Blast on Corpus when you need Cold to make Magnetic in the first place? Shouldn't they resist something you can use with Magnetic instead, like Toxin? DE come on. You would want to build for Heat instead since they resist the normal setup for Corpus right? 

I really don't understand why the resistances are all over the place.

Edited June 30 by (XBOX)Graysmog

[Aldain]

I'm ambivalent to the changes more or less, but the old system did very much feel like it was either complex for the sake of being complex or complex due to years of messy implementations and layers being added on top of each other which led to the system as a whole being simultaneously complex and irrelevant.

[Merkranire]

7 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

None of what you say has anything to do with the subject. You are again back discussing a completely different thing. The idea of what you or I find fun has nothing to do with it, it doesnt make the old system any better or worse if we find fun in efficiency or not. But this isnt exactly surprising when you manage to bring up your idea of fun in practically any thread you enter, while talking down at everyone else.

So. Try to grasp what is actually discussed i.e the old system itself versus the new. And try to stick to the subject.

Considering that the old system (or indeed, 99% of the game) and the new system is optional except when, y’know, it’s not, it seems valid to talk about the times when it’s applicable. It wasn’t applicable to you, but it was applicable to others, and the new system is in the same boat, but simplified to a detrimental degree for those who engage with it when it could have just been made clearer and pruned a little while maintaining gameplay options that you have no idea about

Edited June 30 by Merkranire

[SneakyErvin]

14 hours ago, Merkranire said:

Considering that the old system (or indeed, 99% of the game) and the new system is optional except when, y’know, it’s not, it seems valid to talk about the times when it’s applicable. It wasn’t applicable to you, but it was applicable to others, and the new system is in the same boat, but simplified to a detrimental degree for those who engage with it when it could have just been made clearer and pruned a little while maintaining gameplay options that you have no idea about

Applicable doesnt mean it was good. Anything can be applicable if someone wants to, that doesnt mean it is good. And I dont see how it got simplified to a detrimental degree when it increased reasons to build for specific damage for those that enjoyed it by adding more seperate factions instead of individual enemy health types aswell as improving certain statuses, with clear descriptions added for what they effect etc. You still have the option to build to counter heavy units as done previously with Rad versus Grineer, it just happens to be magnetic instead and versus Eximus. 

And since they also removed random resistances of health types versus damage types, things like magnetic are actually acceptable damage dealing options aswell. So it is perfectly fine to build for eximus counter play without losing massive chunks of damage versus everything else. Things like Magnetic+Toxin actually works as a combo now, and isnt as redundant as it was earlier versus a whole faction. Magnetic has also become a thing that you can actually get use out of even versus infested now, since ancient healers and eximus units exsist.

 

[Merkranire]

10 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Applicable doesnt mean it was good. Anything can be applicable if someone wants to, that doesnt mean it is good. And I dont see how it got simplified to a detrimental degree when it increased reasons to build for specific damage for those that enjoyed it by adding more seperate factions instead of individual enemy health types aswell as improving certain statuses, with clear descriptions added for what they effect etc. You still have the option to build to counter heavy units as done previously with Rad versus Grineer, it just happens to be magnetic instead and versus Eximus. 

And since they also removed random resistances of health types versus damage types, things like magnetic are actually acceptable damage dealing options aswell. So it is perfectly fine to build for eximus counter play without losing massive chunks of damage versus everything else. Things like Magnetic+Toxin actually works as a combo now, and isnt as redundant as it was earlier versus a whole faction. Magnetic has also become a thing that you can actually get use out of even versus infested now, since ancient healers and eximus units exsist.

 

You could always overpower the resistances to bring whatever you wanted, just build higher and take lower like you’re still doing and like you were doing before. There’s players who are like “What do I use now?” when the system was meant to be simplified, but they’re not interested in engaging with the new simplified system, are they? So the simplification failed for those players anyways when they just overpower it anyways

The changes to the way information was presented (I don’t know how many times I need to repeat myself on this point, but considering it’s you, I’m guessing until the end of time) and the changes to Magnetic and Blast were good, and could have been good changes while also utilising the old system that brought different gameplay experiences due to damage types being strong and weak against different enemies within the one mission instead of every damage type killing everything about as effectively or ineffectively as each other; by this point DE might as well remove different damage types

I know you can’t see how it got simplified to a detrimental degree, so take your lame attempts to point out things like countering different enemies under the new system and move on; you were never interested in dealing with different enemy types within the mission, so your trying to point out it’s “sTiLl a ThInG” comes across as pretty tone deaf when I’m the one who’s looking for this stuff in the first place while you just want to do whatever lets you grind fast, damage types and gameplay be damned. 

 

 

Come to think of it, under the old system, what enemies were particularly resistant to magnetic and toxin to the point that you couldn’t expect to use them in at least a neutral fashion for an entire mission if you brought them? I don’t recall feeling particularly pressured into bringing either of those damage types to a fight they wouldn’t find a use in, and even with the changes to Magnetic I would have been perfectly fine with having a role-based piece of kit that has a role in the first place by dint of not being an answer to everything equally effectively.

Also, you do realise that if DE did make a faction resistant to toxin/Magnetic, that’s now per-faction, without the nuance of finding a use for the combo that the old system may have had?

 🤔 Also come to think of it, it’s like, two damage types per faction now, which makes most damage types middling (though with a scant few resistances).

Seems to me the idea is that you’re still incentivised to bring certain damage types (which players ignore anyways), and now the damage types getting bonuses are two instead of whatever bonuses were conferred to whatever damage types under the old system. And everything else is neutral. Pretty sure I’ve mentioned before that I was more incentivised to bring more damage types to a single mission, and now it’s… not there

Edited July 1 by Merkranire

[Merkranire]

Sheeeit, man. The more I think about this, the more I miss the intertwined nature of the old system, where nearly every damage type got its chance to shine in multiple ways even before the status effects, and after the changes to magnetic and blast, that number would have gone up to every damage type.

And now, they’re all about the same aside from their status effects, except for two per mission that receive a mere 50% increase instead of the 25, 50, and 75%, where even if I just built for a certain type of damage because I wanted to or rainbowed my build, I could expect it to hit neutral if it doesn’t have its chance to hit harder

[KobeInHell]

😀

[SneakyErvin]

17 hours ago, Merkranire said:

You could always overpower the resistances to bring whatever you wanted, just build higher and take lower like you’re still doing and like you were doing before. There’s players who are like “What do I use now?” when the system was meant to be simplified, but they’re not interested in engaging with the new simplified system, are they? So the simplification failed for those players anyways when they just overpower it anyways

The changes to the way information was presented (I don’t know how many times I need to repeat myself on this point, but considering it’s you, I’m guessing until the end of time) and the changes to Magnetic and Blast were good, and could have been good changes while also utilising the old system that brought different gameplay experiences due to damage types being strong and weak against different enemies within the one mission instead of every damage type killing everything about as effectively or ineffectively as each other; by this point DE might as well remove different damage types

I know you can’t see how it got simplified to a detrimental degree, so take your lame attempts to point out things like countering different enemies under the new system and move on; you were never interested in dealing with different enemy types within the mission, so your trying to point out it’s “sTiLl a ThInG” comes across as pretty tone deaf when I’m the one who’s looking for this stuff in the first place while you just want to do whatever lets you grind fast, damage types and gameplay be damned. 

 

 

Come to think of it, under the old system, what enemies were particularly resistant to magnetic and toxin to the point that you couldn’t expect to use them in at least a neutral fashion for an entire mission if you brought them? I don’t recall feeling particularly pressured into bringing either of those damage types to a fight they wouldn’t find a use in, and even with the changes to Magnetic I would have been perfectly fine with having a role-based piece of kit that has a role in the first place by dint of not being an answer to everything equally effectively.

Also, you do realise that if DE did make a faction resistant to toxin/Magnetic, that’s now per-faction, without the nuance of finding a use for the combo that the old system may have had?

 🤔 Also come to think of it, it’s like, two damage types per faction now, which makes most damage types middling (though with a scant few resistances).

Seems to me the idea is that you’re still incentivised to bring certain damage types (which players ignore anyways), and now the damage types getting bonuses are two instead of whatever bonuses were conferred to whatever damage types under the old system. And everything else is neutral. Pretty sure I’ve mentioned before that I was more incentivised to bring more damage types to a single mission, and now it’s… not there

All of this and you are still stuck in the subjective. Nothing you say is objective or factual or add anything. You fail to realize that the old system was bad since it only did something if you actively looked for it to do something, due to a subjective idea. If the system was good then no matter what a person prefers to do would potentially have benefits from the system. Like wanting to overpower, then it should also support that by being a good option in order to reach that point of overpowering instead of another. But that isnt what it did.

And it is still a thing if you want to use the system.

As to magnetic and toxin. Most of the Grineer were resistant to toxin for instance and also benefitted from heaps of armor, which at the point you add toxic you can no longer counter, at which point you also can no longer benefit increased damage to the health you will deal damage to 24/7. Magnetic itself simply did nothing to the whole faction even if there was no particual resistant tied to it ontop of that. While at the same time locking you out from both the elements that would be beneficial towards grineer, since both cold and electric are taken up by magnetic. So magnetic itself was at the time only beneficial towards 1 faction and even then it was surpassed by Toxin which simply skipped/skips shields to target health. Now magnetic faces less armor, so does toxin, so both actually also work if you want to use them for more specific jobs, like handling overguard. Which makes magnetic a far more useful tool than it was since it serves a purposes against all factions if you want to use it.

You can also see the benefits of the new system in frames like Gyre. She went from a frame that heavily relied on armor strip to a frame that can actually kill with her own kit even against armored enemies. Sure, not specifically tied to the health types, but part of the rework overall that goes hand in hand. Imagine that, Gyre with a Rakta Dark Dagger, suddenly a competative combination without relying on a helminth crutch or meta weapons.

[Tsukinoki]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

Which makes magnetic a far more useful tool than it was since it serves a purposes against all factions if you want to use it.

This is what I don't get about the people trying to complain that the damage changes "lost" something.

A few damage types are now actually usable in the majority of content (magnetic has a place against all factions to pop overguard, blast actually not being absolutely terrible, etc.).

 

We gained options and builds that simply wouldn't have been viable in the old system.
We gained new ways to focus builds and bring different weapons for different purposes (which is exactly what the detractors say we lost, as now you have an option to build a weapon to target eximus units for instance).
Enemies no longer have conflicting weaknesses (shields on-top of alloy and other similar things the old system had).
Etc.

 

The only thing "lost" was mechanical bloat that served no purpose and didn't benefit the system at all.

There are still ways to min-max builds to focus on specific situations against specific factions and units if you want to.  That didn't really change.

 

It's like the detractors are only looking at the extreme surface level of "Oh we no longer have 13 health types!" and only seeing that and not the possibilities, build options, and min-maxing that is achievable in the current system.

[Loza03]

On 2024-06-25 at 1:21 PM, Tsukinoki said:

Here's a completely honest question:
When did this ever apply in the old system?

You never needed to memorize "Oh this unit has infested health, and this other unit has infested flesh health, and here is exactly how they are different from each other!"

You just brought heat/viral/slash because that worked on literally everything in the game.

 

You never needed to experiment or try to go "Does this grineer have alloy armor?  Or does it have ferrite armor?"
You just brought heat/viral/slash because that worked on literally everything in the game.

 

Add onto this how the game obscured the health and armor types and presented them the same to the player and it was just needless layers of complexity for the sake of complexity and added absolutely nothing to the actual gameplay or the moment-to-moment decisions of the players.

 

Having all that complexity didn't do anything but make things complex for no real reason.

You're pining for something that was never there to begin with.

For the longest time in warframe status has been king, and has beaten out raw damage quite summarily.

Sure you could go "I need a radiation weapon and a corrosive weapon to deal with the grineer units on this map...." and then have to keep a running tally in your head of "Is the ballista ferrite or alloy armor?"
OR you could just bring heat/viral/slash and just kill everything much faster and not give a damn.

 

All that added complexity was just pure mechanical bloat that had little effect on the playstyles, weapon, and elements selected by the players, especially at the higher levels.

It didn't add anything material to the game.

To illustrate: This guy

 

Who here noticed that the Murmur took only 1/2 viral damage except when they were they were fighting the Hollow Vein?

Who amongst the playerbase thought "Huh, Viral isn't very good here. I should probably bring something else, like Radiation, which deals 50% more damage against Murmur health?"

If you did, you get a cookie.

 

Also these days the game doesn't tell you that Slash is less effective against armour, which is nice!

 

On 2024-06-25 at 6:09 PM, Rexis12 said:

Also the new system works wonders for

"Do I want to bring in an extra element for Utility or just focus on pure damage."

Like I was considering to bring a Magnetic weapon for a Grineer mission, because I thought to my self 'There might be Eximus units and bringing along a Magnetic weapon might give me an advantage'.

 

I unironically conisdered a blast built today. Didn't wind up working super great, but it also wasn't bad. BLAST.

[Merkranire]

6 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

All of this and you are still stuck in the subjective. Nothing you say is objective or factual or add anything. You fail to realize that the old system was bad since it only did something if you actively looked for it to do something, due to a subjective idea. If the system was good then no matter what a person prefers to do would potentially have benefits from the system. Like wanting to overpower, then it should also support that by being a good option in order to reach that point of overpowering instead of another. But that isnt what it did.

And it is still a thing if you want to use the system.

As to magnetic and toxin. Most of the Grineer were resistant to toxin for instance and also benefitted from heaps of armor, which at the point you add toxic you can no longer counter, at which point you also can no longer benefit increased damage to the health you will deal damage to 24/7. Magnetic itself simply did nothing to the whole faction even if there was no particual resistant tied to it ontop of that. While at the same time locking you out from both the elements that would be beneficial towards grineer, since both cold and electric are taken up by magnetic. So magnetic itself was at the time only beneficial towards 1 faction and even then it was surpassed by Toxin which simply skipped/skips shields to target health. Now magnetic faces less armor, so does toxin, so both actually also work if you want to use them for more specific jobs, like handling overguard. Which makes magnetic a far more useful tool than it was since it serves a purposes against all factions if you want to use it.

You can also see the benefits of the new system in frames like Gyre. She went from a frame that heavily relied on armor strip to a frame that can actually kill with her own kit even against armored enemies. Sure, not specifically tied to the health types, but part of the rework overall that goes hand in hand. Imagine that, Gyre with a Rakta Dark Dagger, suddenly a competative combination without relying on a helminth crutch or meta weapons.

Dude, a huge part of that is the armour (and status effects change, but we’re not talking about status effects, are we?) change, which could have been applied to the old system and you would be praising the change exactly for the same reason you are now, in that enemies would melt in the same way. The damage types change barely moved the needle for you, it’s the armour changes that are bolstering your claims, but with the damage type changes we’ve lost the ability to build for roles within the mission and experience the mid-fight wrinkles that the old system enabled and we’re left with…. sorry, what was it again? Building for Eximus? Woooah, I can care about an enemy I was already caring about? Now give me another option, because right now I’m struggling to find a way to care about what enemy I’m shooting within the one mission

I didn’t want you to have to bother facing the system (though now I want to force you into experiencing it so you at least have an idea of what I’m talking about), and simply building higher was always an option for newbies and long-term players alike, but when someone explored more builds and playstyles and taking them to more places, the system was objectively there and objectively worth learning if someone wanted to expand their options for build and play in a game about options. Yes, it could have been streamlined a bit, but we didn’t have to be forced ever closer into playing like you do, where what we bring is slightly different flavours of particles that have barely any difference between them

Edited July 2 by Merkranire

[Merkranire]

6 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

As to magnetic and toxin. Most of the Grineer were resistant to toxin for instance and also benefitted from heaps of armor, which at the point you add toxic you can no longer counter, at which point you also can no longer benefit increased damage to the health you will deal damage to 24/7. Magnetic itself simply did nothing to the whole faction even if there was no particual resistant tied to it ontop of that. While at the same time locking you out from both the elements that would be beneficial towards grineer, since both cold and electric are taken up by magnetic. So magnetic itself was at the time only beneficial towards 1 faction and even then it was surpassed by Toxin which simply skipped/skips shields to target health. Now magnetic faces less armor, so does toxin, so both actually also work if you want to use them for more specific jobs, like handling overguard. Which makes magnetic a far more useful tool than it was since it serves a purposes against all factions if you want to use it.

Also, I’m pretty sure it was gas that Grineer were resistant to (though don’t quote me on that), but even if they were resistant to toxin, why would you have been bringing toxin and magnetic anyways? Nowadays I can imagine why Magnetic, but then that just leads into the original thing I’ve been arguing about regarding roles your gear is built for and what you’re hitting an enemy with and having to consider how you’re built across your loadout to intertwine it with the combat instead of just one weapon solving all your problems

edit: 🤔 Come to think of it, wasn’t it the Robotics health type that was resistant to toxin? Things like MOAs made just punching through shields with toxin less of an option (unless you overbuilt) if you went shooting at them

Edited July 2 by Merkranire

[MrInubis]

Old system was stupid, convoluted mess that nobody engaged with because there was no reason to. Nobody min max for every single enemy in a game where the entire point is mawing down hordes. Everyone used something that was good enough for everything. You literally had to gimp yourself to even notice a difference. I used corrosive vs corpus, i had 0 reason to change. Why should I? There was no "mid fight wrinkles" ever. You had to create them yourself. Guess what? You can still do it and its noticable now! Bring magnetic weapon against eximus, bring cold status weapon for CC, bring exlosive for more AOE clear etc. Its not just numbers now. You feel the impact of your loadout choice. Thats what i call options, excel spread sheet was not that and you wont convince anyone that it was better.

Edited July 2 by kuciol

[Merkranire]

Just now, kuciol said:

Old system was stupid, convoluted mess that nobody engaged with because there was no reason to. Nobody min max for every single enemy in a game where the entire point is mawing down hordes. Everyone used something that was good enough for everything. You literally had to gimp yourself to even notice a difference. I used corrosive vs corpus, i had 0 reason to change. Why should I? There was no "mid fight wrinkles" ever. You had to create them yourself. Guess what you can still do it and its noticable now! Bring magnetic weapon against eximus, bring cold status weapon for CC, bring exlosive for more AOE clear etc. Its not just numbers now. You feel the impact of your loadout choice. Thats what i call options, excel spread sheet was not that.

 

You’ve been looking at too many meta guides and too many players sold you on too many convoluted solutions to keep your one-build-to-rule-them-all way of avoiding a system it would have been far easier to learn at least the basics of. It wasn’t as complicated as you number-crunching esoteric meta chasers would have someone believe, and I’m pretty sure you personally scared others off from learning it when you told them things like “Slap viral/slash on everything” and for some mysterious reason it didn’t work in ways that were quite obvious if you scanned some dudes and opened the codex

 

Man though, the way you talk about mid-fight wrinkles really makes me think you know a thing or two and that you even actively tried to stop sucking at the gameplay itself instead of just making a one-build-to-rule-them-all, narrowing your options and then acting like options are what you’ve been after all along.

You could’ve gotten better at managing those mid-mission wrinkles and broadened your options in the process, though I’m certain that you’re going to do so now, now that, y’know, they’re all but gone. …So the game did all the work for you, changing itself to suit. Yeesh 

[MrInubis]

Say what you want but everyone plays like that. They may have different loadout for specific faction and / or mission but thats it. Nobody sits in excel like you delude yourself. Ive never used a guide btw. I had no need for it. Narrowing options when saryn and mesa exist pfff.

Edited July 2 by kuciol

[Merkranire]

Just now, kuciol said:

Say what you want but everyone plays like that. They may have different loadout for specific faction and / or mission but thats it. Nobody sits in excel like you delude yourself. Ive never used a guide btw. I had no need for it.

Again, the excel spreedsheet is a hyperbole of your making, born out of the community trying to find something it’s good at with this game and deciding that numbers and weird maths were the logical choice.

I posit that everyone who plays like you’re describing, utilising a handful of options they consider worth using and binning off nearly everything they earned after they settled on their forever builds, was missing out, both in terms of finding satisfaction with new rewards, as well as alternative gameplay when one style wears out its welcome.

I’d say they’re still missing out, and they don’t even know it

[MrInubis]

This is just a game, your accomplishments here are meaningless. Old resistances were a god damn excel spreadsheet, nothing more. You think anyone gives a crap about that? They want to kill hordes of enemies in flashiest way possibile and collect some stuff. This is not a game that needs minmaxing, never was. There are plenty of options that work just good enough, nothing is lost by not using optimal things. You still one shot entire screen, doesnt matter if it 2 or 3 times over.

[Merkranire]

3 minutes ago, kuciol said:

This is just a game, your accomplishments here are meaningless. Old resistances were a god damn excel spreadsheet, nothing more. You think anyone gives a crap about that? They want to kill hordes of enemies in flashiest way possibile and collect some stuff. This is not a game that needs minmaxing, never was. There are plenty of options that work just good enough, nothing is lost by not using optimal things. You still one shot entire screen, doesnt matter if it 2 or 3 times over.

Old resistances, and new resistances still, were a guide; you didn’t need to min-max to the nth degree, you just needed to know that if you shoot one dude with a weapon and then shoot another dude with the same weapon, it’d be more or less effective according to what the Codex says, which translated into mid-mission wrinkles that you allegedly know so much about. No napkin maths needed, no meta guides required, just look at the damage your gun does and the + and -s the game showed you and you were good to at least understand what’s happening when you pull the trigger, and after 5 minutes and a few missions you barely even needed to use Simaris’ upgradeable scanner in-mission or look at the Codex except in the case of a brainfart.

I’m well aware that people want to kill in the simplest and easiest ways possible, and I’m still positing that they’re missing out on alternative playstyles and feeling rewarded by the options they were earning if they lock themselves in thinking they’re being clever.

 

I still can’t shake the feeling that you cared more for excel spreedsheets and meta guides than I do

[MrInubis]

Dude how many times i have to repeat that nobody cared about that? You seem to know less about old resistances than most people here. It didnt matter that you shot a dude and it showed different number when you shot another dude. It changed depending on shield, armor and health type. It was pointless. The moment you removed armor or shield or both it changed resistances. What mattered is "does this shot kill the dude" nothing more. There was no wrinkles, ever. When you have 2 tanky units in the entire game you mod for them, end of story.

[Merkranire]

Just now, kuciol said:

Dude how many times i have to repeat that nobody cared about that? You seem to know less about old resistances than most people here. It didnt matter that you shot a dude and it showed different number when you shot another dude. It changed depending on shield, armor and health type. It was pointless. The moment you removed armor or shield or both it changed resistances. What mattered is "does this shot kill the dude" nothing more. There was no wrinkles, ever. When you have 2 tanky units in the entire game you mod for them, end of story.

Not when you’re working from the modless baseline, which is the broadest canvas for build and gameplay customisation; any build we can make has a limit, and when that limit is reached is when the damage types come into play.

You’re not doing something wrong if you don’t obliterate everything in one hit, the game gives you differing levels of content to do because it knows not all builds are created equal

Seriously, chasing your one-build-to-rule-them-all required way more napkin maths and spreadsheet using to figure out whatever esoteric ways you can avoid having to learn the system than just following what the game says. You can’t go and act like I’m some up-themselves minmaxing metachaser when you seem more concerned with the approach than I am, and I’m still saying that we lost something with the dumbing down of the damage types; if I’m not some meta chaser, then I must be more on the level you alledge to be, and if on that level I’m talking about things that aren’t dealing with spreadsheet calculations, then they must be a little more understandable to you, and yet you claim to not care about the meta, while also seemingly having no idea about the non-meta.

It seriously feels like you’re projecting

[MrInubis]

You are talking about non steel path when elemental mods alone kill everything just fine. You dont need spreadsheet for that. I didnt chase anything like you try very hard to accuse me in futile attempt to ridicule argument you cant counter.

You just speak nonsense at this point. Everything works in normal starchart, there are no wrinkles and no meta there. You can kill everything with anything. There were literally 3 units you wanted to mod for and that was bombards, heavy gunners and necramechs. If you modded against those 3 everything else didnt matter. You try to justify your point of view based on something that never happened and you clearly are clueless how resistances actually worked.

Edited July 3 by kuciol