Jante

[Prof-Dante]

I was trying to debate whether Jade is on Dante's current level or just an average frame.

but I was so distracted by how well thought out and intricate Jade is.

 

Jade is terribly well balanced! 
and when My Dante build doesn't allow me to use tragedy much because the heat procs from noctua kill everything in one tick, Jade allows you to use everything in your kit.

 

like they really did think of everything, and on first release, this is amazing honestly.

her 1 can be cast three times but it isn't affected by range Has small base range.
her 2 have three buffs but you can't have all of them at the same time, in addition the buffs aren't all powerful, the damage buff is additive like serration, the shield recharge is ok and the strength buff can't stack with it self (obviously)

man, they even thought about the hassle of cycling abilities and allow you to activate the buff on cycle, without recasting them.

 

her 3 has slow and defense debuff, but it needs line of sight.
and her 4 isn't a crit monster but it does enough damage and benefits from arcane avenger, and even her alt fire isn't spammable because it needs judgements.

with all these elements Jade can do everything but not all at once. and it's just so awesome.

 

if only I can lower my anxiety a little bit from playing her, but at least Stalker won't try and kills us if we play Jade 🤷‍♂️

Edited June 29 by Prof-Dante

[Venus-Venera]

vor 17 Minuten schrieb Prof-Dante:

Jade is terribly well balanced! 

 

and when My Dante build doesn't allow me to use tragedy much because the heat procs from noctua kill everything in one tick, Jade allows you to use everything in your kit.

It's intentional because it's a catch-up update and they want to attract new players. What do new players get:

1. 3x best arcanes with top performance in the shop. Arcane Energize is EZ sale for 800p
2. 2x unlimited ammo ranged weapons + mele. So full set.
3. Top warframe that can heal itself and distributes good buffs. etc. I did the most damage with Jade in EDA with her heat+rad weapon. The mechs went down very well.
4. and much more...

when enough people have invested formas and other stuff in jade and a new big update is coming, jade will _suddenly_ and _unexpectedly_ be declared SUPER OMG TERMINATOR FACEROLL IMBA and _suddenly_ and _unexpectedly_ strange "people" will complain about jade in the forums, that she is so imba and that a jade army is farming afk somewhere. ...and then jade will be ruined. 🙄

[Prof-Dante]

7 minutes ago, Venus-Venera said:

It's intentional because it's a catch-up update and they want to attract new players. What do new players get:

1. 3x best arcanes with top performance in the shop. Arcane Energize is EZ sale for 800p
2. 2x unlimited ammo ranged weapons + mele. So full set.
3. Top warframe that can heal itself and distributes good buffs. etc. I did the most damage with Jade in EDA with her heat+rad weapon. The mechs went down very well.
4. and much more...

when enough people have invested formas and other stuff in jade and a new big update is coming, jade will _suddenly_ and _unexpectedly_ be declared SUPER OMG TERMINATOR FACEROLL IMBA and _suddenly_ and _unexpectedly_ strange "people" will complain about jade in the forums, that she is so imba and that a jade army is farming afk somewhere. ...and then jade will be ruined. 🙄

How is her being well balanced promote the nerfing hammer? isn't that what DE (and most of us) want from a Warframe design?

[Venus-Venera]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb Prof-Dante:

How is her being well balanced promote the nerfing hammer? isn't that what DE (and most of us) want from a Warframe design?

Who are you talking about anyway? About me and you? About all players? Because I know very few players. And Warframe already had 26 million accounts 7 years ago.

And Warframe owners make real life cash. Like every company. And that's all that counts.

[Prof-Dante]

10 minutes ago, Venus-Venera said:

Who are you talking about anyway? About me and you? About all players? Because I know very few players. And Warframe already had 26 million accounts 7 years ago.

And Warframe owners make real life cash. Like every company. And that's all that counts.

I'm...I'm kinda lost on the point of naysaying to be honest...

[Venus-Venera]

vor 7 Minuten schrieb Prof-Dante:

I'm...I'm kinda lost on the point of naysaying to be honest...

np. and this isn't a private message either. it looks like only the two of us are discussing it. but because it's a public area and other people are reading it, I'm discussing it with them at the same time.

[Prof-Dante]

17 minutes ago, Venus-Venera said:

np. and this isn't a private message either. it looks like only the two of us are discussing it. but because it's a public area and other people are reading it, I'm discussing it with them at the same time.

Well if I'm going to try and understand what you're referring to, I don't think complaining based on speculation is the correct approach.

Dante was nerfed because he had: massive range aoe nuke that went through walls, massive overguard gain, can benefit from Archon intensify without loosing health, And everything else that was normal.

Jade actually has restrictions, and I guess that's enough, she is balanced, the problem is the only two recent Warframes that can do everything are her and Dante. 

Qorvex is only crowd control, and he is lacking in everything else.

Dagath is only for damage, and she too, is lacking everything else.

 

so When people see frames like Dante and Jade they freak out.
 

 

my last two thoughts on this is that Jade is proof that DE learned from their previous mistake with Dante, and that's all I need to make sure she won't get nerfed.

Edited June 29 by Prof-Dante

[Venus-Venera]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Prof-Dante:

Well if I'm going to try and understand what you're referring to, I don't think complaining based on speculation is the correct approach.

...

my last two thoughts on this is that Jade is proof that DE learned from their previous mistake with Dante, and that's all I need to make sure she won't get nerfed.

marked in red: you have to provide evidence if you claim something like that.

I'll skip the rest because it's just your opinion. Because here too you have to go into detail. Because every claim has to be justified. But here the effort becomes too great and the topic too long.

And on the last point: how did you come to that conclusion? Because certain people are simply incapable of learning. I have expressed myself in great detail in other topics about extreme problems and miserable balance after the update. Of course I don't want to bring that up here because that's what the other topics are for. And that's exactly what proves that designers live on another planet and have lost touch with reality!

[(PSN)FrDiabloFr]

1 hour ago, Venus-Venera said:

marked in red: you have to provide evidence if you claim something like that.

I'll skip the rest because it's just your opinion. Because here too you have to go into detail. Because every claim has to be justified. But here the effort becomes too great and the topic too long.

And on the last point: how did you come to that conclusion? Because certain people are simply incapable of learning. I have expressed myself in great detail in other topics about extreme problems and miserable balance after the update. Of course I don't want to bring that up here because that's what the other topics are for. And that's exactly what proves that designers live on another planet and have lost touch with reality!

“provide evidence” Dante was nerfed there is many topics discussing this op is correct.

Edited June 29 by (PSN)FrDiabloFr

[Stormandreas]

Honeslty, I'm on the fence about calling Jade balanced.

If you try to build her to use EVERYTHING in her kit all at once, she's pretty meh, but if you specialize into just the Alt Fir on her 4, or primary on her 4, she's extremely broken.

To make it short, you can have Jade restoring nearly 900 shields a second, with her 4 running nearly 600% strength, all while not caring about her absurdly low energy pool, never having to change weapons or swap abilities, automatically armour stripping by just staring at enemies, and all while also buffing allied shields as well to silly degrees.

The setup takes some thought, but then it's just a completely brainless, set it and forget it type build that you just fly around and hold M1.

I would say she needs a little revision to lean more into the support role rather than the crazy Apache or AC130 role she's much, MUCH better at.

[TARINunit9]

2 hours ago, Venus-Venera said:

when enough people have invested formas and other stuff in jade and a new big update is coming, jade will _suddenly_ and _unexpectedly_ be declared SUPER OMG TERMINATOR FACEROLL IMBA and _suddenly_ and _unexpectedly_ strange "people" will complain about jade in the forums, that she is so imba and that a jade army is farming afk somewhere. ...and then jade will be ruined

Take off the tinfoil 

[Venus-Venera]

vor 10 Minuten schrieb TARINunit9:

Take off the tinfoil 

what is the meaning? preferably in German. because google translate translation of hidden meaning is not correct

[(PSN)FrDiabloFr]

6 minutes ago, Venus-Venera said:

what is the meaning? preferably in German. because google translate translation of hidden meaning is not correct

It basically means stop being a conspiracy theorist 

[Venus-Venera]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb (PSN)FrDiabloFr:

It basically means stop being a conspiracy theorist 

Even if it's true, unfortunately it doesn't make any sense at all. It sounds more like a post from the trash can (no offense intended - I'm just judging it based on its usefulness).
and! As always, there are no proofs or details to support it. So it's about very embarrassing provocation with ridiculous tricks to discriminate against serious and very important authors with malicious intentions....
unfortunately, that won't get us very far... 👎

[latetier]

new stuff on release BETTER be broken. this is a business. its about making money. players keep doing this silly thing where they dont think about the business side at all, because they spent 5000 hours in game never using their brain.

think about it, if you want people to buy a product in this context, it better be over powered or at least very, very strong, or why would someone pay real money to get plat to buy jade?

so dont get it twisted. its always been about money

Edited June 29 by latetier

[(PSN)FrDiabloFr]

1 minute ago, Venus-Venera said:

Even if it's true, unfortunately it doesn't make any sense at all. It sounds more like a post from the trash can (no offense intended - I'm just judging it based on its usefulness).
and! As always, there are no proofs or details to support it. So it's about very embarrassing provocation with ridiculous tricks to discriminate against serious and very important authors with malicious intentions....
unfortunately, that won't get us very far... 👎

 Nar not really, you just can’t accept a different opinion it’s kinda your schtick anyway.

[(XBOX)RaeOvSunshyn]

5 hours ago, Prof-Dante said:

man, they even thought about the hassle of cycling abilities and allow you to activate the buff on cycle, without recasting them.

Such a small thing, yet best feels ever.

I think your assessment of Jade is pretty spot on. The one, the only, issue I have with her really is the sfx. Not even about volume, more like... nails on a chalkboard?

[Prof-Dante]

59 minutes ago, (XBOX)RaeOvSunshyn said:

Such a small thing, yet best feels ever.

I think your assessment of Jade is pretty spot on. The one, the only, issue I have with her really is the sfx. Not even about volume, more like... nails on a chalkboard?

I love the sound effects honestly, I get how it may get annoying but it's much better than listening to Octavia.

 

speaking of which, do you think she's on par or better than Dante? they seem to offer quite the same offensive support playstyle, both have their own exalted, and both have an aoe detonation of sorts.

but what they offer in support is still different.

[(XBOX)RaeOvSunshyn]

1 hour ago, Prof-Dante said:

it's much better than listening to Octavia.

 

speaking of which, do you think she's on par or better than Dante?

But I can, and do, squelch Octavia. Gimme that option for Jade and I'll be a happy camper.

I think Jade is... as good as Dante. However, I think she takes way more effort to have her on par -- as in, there's quite a bit of micromanaging if you want to support your squad with her vs Dante. For solo or maybe one other friend play, Jade definitely beats Dante in the "fun factor" category.

[SneakyErvin]

While Jade is good and balanced, she will just never be a Dante. No support frame will get on the levels of the ones that provide OG since they wont provide OG.

Her healing is just healing, mostly hot-spot based. I prefer her 1 for the additional damage it provides through judgement.

Her buff is just more power strength, great if you already have roar in the group or something. The range buff is additive, so just a small group wide Vex. And her shield support is based on you staying out of harm for a while. So neither is huge to write home about. I personally replaced it with Roar.

Her third skill is nice, but you need to wait for it for 4 seconds or so even with decently high strength to do any form of full strip. Yeah it's a passive thing after activation, so that is always nice, plus it slows, which is beneficial I guess.

Her fourth is nice, good damage, especially with judgement nuking combined with her one. The exalted for still feels clunky as hell, with the movement feeling unresponsive and the delay on 1+4 being terrible aswell. Dashing is also oddly buggy on it. The first one works then it goes "no!" and then suddenly works again. As if there is an invisible internal CD on it or something.

Overall I see her more as an offensive debuff frame, because the group support parts in her kit are just "meh".

Would love some massive improvements to her exalted form so it doesnt feel like trying to manouver a brick.

[Prof-Dante]

52 minutes ago, (XBOX)RaeOvSunshyn said:

think Jade is... as good as Dante. However, I think she takes way more effort to have her on par -- as in, there's quite a bit of micromanaging if you want to support your squad with her vs Dante. For solo or maybe one other friend play, Jade definitely beats Dante in the "fun factor" category.

I've spent like two days playing Jade, tried the same exact build as my Dante's, and then settled on something special for her.

and at first glance it did seem that Dante is better, but after trying her more, they're the exact opposite of what you just said, in my opinion.

 

The only micromanagement that I had to make was figuring out how her 4 works, and why making a build for both fire modes is pointless. that's it, all I had to do is change the build to focus on her alt fire, added blast damage and removed anything that didn't affect it.

and the result is that, Jade only needs one ability (her 1) to be cast to apply judgement on enemies, then the alt fire which detonates (along with blast detonation) all enemies marked instantly.

 

With Dante, I had to pull out my Noctua, activate tragedy, apply heat dots, and cast tragedy, only to realize I only got like three or four enemies dead because line of sight ruined it

it's safe to say that I rarely use tragedy to be honest, and feel like it's a waste of time when my Noctua spreads faster and does enough damage to kill enemies in one heat proc.

 

and let me talk about the other buffs, because everytime they run out you need to go through every sequence all over again, where with Jade, cast the ability only once and you can easily cycle between them.

 

She's very Balanced, but I have to admit, she's a better Dante.

[Corvid]

6 hours ago, latetier said:

new stuff on release BETTER be broken. this is a business. its about making money. players keep doing this silly thing where they dont think about the business side at all, because they spent 5000 hours in game never using their brain.

think about it, if you want people to buy a product in this context, it better be over powered or at least very, very strong, or why would someone pay real money to get plat to buy jade?

so dont get it twisted. its always been about money

Dunno, they seemed to be doing just fine before Dante without having to make every new release overpowered.

You're demonstrating the exact short-sighted mindset that's causing the AAA gaming scene to be filled with trend-chasing slop, which fails to account for one simple truth: Business is not all about money. Just as important, if not moreso if you want your product to be sustainable long-term, is consumer goodwill.

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

On 2024-06-29 at 9:16 AM, Prof-Dante said:

I've spent like two days playing Jade, tried the same exact build as my Dante's, and then settled on something special for her.

and at first glance it did seem that Dante is better, but after trying her more, they're the exact opposite of what you just said, in my opinion.

 

The only micromanagement that I had to make was figuring out how her 4 works, and why making a build for both fire modes is pointless. that's it, all I had to do is change the build to focus on her alt fire, added blast damage and removed anything that didn't affect it.

and the result is that, Jade only needs one ability (her 1) to be cast to apply judgement on enemies, then the alt fire which detonates (along with blast detonation) all enemies marked instantly.

 

With Dante, I had to pull out my Noctua, activate tragedy, apply heat dots, and cast tragedy, only to realize I only got like three or four enemies dead because line of sight ruined it

it's safe to say that I rarely use tragedy to be honest, and feel like it's a waste of time when my Noctua spreads faster and does enough damage to kill enemies in one heat proc.

 

and let me talk about the other buffs, because everytime they run out you need to go through every sequence all over again, where with Jade, cast the ability only once and you can easily cycle between them.

 

She's very Balanced, but I have to admit, she's a better Dante.

No? Jade is just a lazier Support option in comparison to Dante, who has to be a lot more active in order to buff his allies. You get massive benefits with Dante because he's super energy hungry and has to cast fairly often to keep everything active.

The only real advantage Jade has over Dante is that her 4 hits harder thanks to her kit, making her an airborne Mesa. Her actual support capabilities are okay at best and I imagine they'll tweak her 4 in some way to reduce its effectiveness, like the turn speed, energy drain or fire rate. I would be surprised if the alt fire stays the same.

[Venus-Venera]

Am 29.6.2024 um 17:15 schrieb (XBOX)RaeOvSunshyn:

But I can, and do, squelch Octavia. Gimme that option for Jade and I'll be a happy camper.

I think Jade is... as good as Dante. However, I think she takes way more effort to have her on par -- as in, there's quite a bit of micromanaging if you want to support your squad with her vs Dante. For solo or maybe one other friend play, Jade definitely beats Dante in the "fun factor" category.

yes. the sound effects spam are hell and cause brain damage.
another proof that they aren't even playing their own game. because normal people get headaches.