Misgendering and the use of a pronouns tag of some sort

[Black_Cat_Jinx]

I'm also trans fem. I agree on principle but being fair.... I think "Bro" and "Bruh" have become a word for that means "nonspacific person I am too freaking high to remember which one of you you are.."

It's less bro like "Brother" and more like "bwuahhh..." the sound a baby makes when it's trying to imitate the sound noises that come out of adults face holes.

[Circle_of_Psi]

2 hours ago, RLanzinger said:

So we do like FB or X, we play the 🙈 🙉 🙊 until the moment some young ones get so distress and do something stupid like suicide ? MARVELLOUS IDEA 🤨

[(PSN)FrDiabloFr]

45 minutes ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

Lol!!!! Take this like:)

[RLanzinger]

To @Black_Cat_Jinx : SO TRUE ... can only give one +1Like

 

To @Circle_of_Psi : "WHAT ?"

Yeah I admit this was not very nice fo me but here in FRANCE, we had such dramatic cases very recently.

I admit, I dramatise what you said but the problem IS dramatic ... Sadly 😢

And the most revolting is that all of this is mostly due to the let's look away / Do-not-open-this-can-of-worms mentality

 

I perfectly understand that for all of us : Warframe is FUN and Real Pleasure so they don't wanna to taint their time with real-life problems, This is NOT the WAY

[Circle_of_Psi]

15 minutes ago, RLanzinger said:

Yeah I admit this was not very nice fo me but here in FRANCE, we had such dramatic cases very recently

Are you like, okay?

You sent me a ton of text with a ton of spaces in between, said some cryptic gods know what and now you are apologising for being in France?, Like huh???

I have no idea what you are smoking, but I want some, also what's with the emojis and coloured text?

[Circle_of_Psi]

22 minutes ago, (PSN)FrDiabloFr said:

Lol!!!! Take this like:)

I have ZERO clue what this person is on about xD

Edited Tuesday at 04:43 PM by Circle_of_Psi

[(PSN)FrDiabloFr]

1 hour ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

I have ZERO clue what this person is on about xD

Lol i know dear tenno, i know.

Edited Tuesday at 05:54 PM by (PSN)FrDiabloFr

[0bsi]

While I have no issue if they did add one, I don't see it as being something that would actually have any great positive impact overall.  It's an ok idea in theory... the issue how it would work in practice.

If one was added under/next to player names, then it would add to the visual clutter and people would complain.  If it was an option to then turn it off, I assume most people would, making it next to useless.  If it's added in the profile to avoid clutter, it would also be next to useless because very few people would bother to look there.

So if it's obvious where it could be useful, it would be annoying clutter that people would complain about.  If it's less obvious, then it's easy to overlook.

 

Then you have the issue of whether or not it would change behaviour....

As people have already commented, to many gamers "dude" and "bro" are considered gender neutral terms.  I do know some women who find being called "dude" offensive because they see it as being a male term.  I'm female and have no issue with being called "dude" depending on the context - because to me there's a difference between someone calling me "a dude" when they are intending to misgender me as male,  and someone going "thanks dude" where the "dude" just means "person".  Same with "bro" - I get that it's from "brother" so a male term, but in the context used, it's generally not used as such.  I call women "dude" too.

Most of the interactions we have with other players in chat are quick, I'm not sure many people would take time to consider consider pronouns, look at any pronoun tag and use the "correct" pronoun.  They are more likely to default to "dude/bro".  Should people care?  Yes.  In practice will they? Probably not.

So... while I understand that to some people it is offensive being called dude/bro etc. - for those people who already use it to be genderless, would they change their language if they saw a pronoun tag?  Probably not enough would.

 

Then you have the issue of people intentionally using that info to troll.  Personally, as a female gamer, I'd rather not advertise myself as such - lest it invite either creepy behaviour or people assuming I'm not a "proper gamer" because I'm a girl, or whatever other gender biased view they might have.  Having a they/them pronoun option would open the way for some people to attack a player based on their bigoted beliefs.   Should gamer spaces be a place where we need to worry about that? no, but it is what it is.

So I do wonder how many people would use a pronoun tag even if it was offered? 

 

Ultimately I think that it would open itself up to people intentionally using the wrong pronounce just to be an ass, or people not bothering to check, or people still using "dude/bro" regardless.... more than it be of benefit for the few people who would actually take the time to check and use pronoun you prefer.

[SneakyErvin]

Dude, bro, pal, bud, bub, buddy and even man are gender neutral words these days and have been for quite a long time. 

Also adding they/them would solve nothing, since they/them are the equal to he/him, she/her, and we dont go around and say "hey her/him/he/she" since it is gramatically incorrect. None of the forms would fit into a conversation. Or is there some form of "man" or "girl" version of they/them that could fit in a "you" conversation.

[L3512]

2 hours ago, 0bsi said:

Ultimately I think that it would open itself up to people intentionally using the wrong pronounce just to be an ass, or people not bothering to check, or people still using "dude/bro" regardless.... more than it be of benefit for the few people who would actually take the time to check and use pronoun you prefer.

Even then say you complete a mission with a male, and female and someone that is non binary, do you either take the time to say GG and proceed to list the pronouns, not bother to say GG at all or use a more neutral encompassing term like GG all or GG folk, which we can do right now without pronoun tags.

It really is not an issue that will be solved if DE adds tags and will probably lead to other problems.

[-Runn_Jegu-]

Gender politics is so tiresome. Why is everyone so hyper sensitive these days, especially within a game that's centered around extreme violence. Can we just concentrate on the game and leave the drama for X and FB?!

 

[Fred_Avant_2019]

Il y a 1 heure, -Runn_Jegu- a dit :

Can we just concentrate on the game and leave the drama for X and FB?!

Amen. Games are for gaming.

[(PSN)FrDiabloFr]

36 minutes ago, Fred_Avant_2019 said:

Amen. Games are for gaming.

Agreed +1

[Yrkul]

On 2024-07-02 at 3:25 PM, (PSN)FrDiabloFr said:

There’s no talking to you, you always have to twist or try and take some kind of moral high ground, you clearly missed or as you usually do dismissed what i said you are a lost cause.

The guy is a poser. There are plenty of red flags indicating a lack of professional familiarity with the terms and concepts he's trying to use. The only thing he bumblingly came close to getting right is, that patients with dysphoria often have co-morbidities, ie underlying and/or reinforcing conditions. The rest are disjointed claims, platitudes, and (as he himself confessed in a later post) dramatizations. And no, language barrier is NOT an excuse, since all higher education relying on up-to-date research involves reading large amounts of material in english. So he might be an orderly, but hardly someone making diagnoses.

What we are likely seeing, is an example of Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy 1 2 (clinical term is Factitious Disorder Imposed on Another), where the person in question takes on the role of protector, while reinforcing sickness/victimhood of the protectee. This does not need to be a specific person, but can target groups as well (Gad Saad calls this 'Collective Munchausen by Proxy' in his book The Parasitic Mind). Throw in the Dunning-Kruger effect, and you'll end up with a relationship, that can exacerbate the problem even further.

-------------------------------------

As for OP and her suggestion of pronoun tags, I would very much advise against it.

First of all, it is bound to be abused, as we see it in social media, to browbeat and label people, and reinforce polarization.

Second of all, there is already a counter-movement building up, and giving another example of pushing your ideologies onto others will only give said movement another target to rally against. And I seriously doubt DE want the culture war to spill over into this community, more than it has done already.

Thirdly, let me remind everyone, that we're scattered all over the globe, with different political, social and cultural facets making up each and every individual here. So when you use terminolgy and norms related to a rather narrow group, let alone expect others to use them as well, you start imposing your values on them. And that, once again, creates resentment.

[(PSN)FrDiabloFr]

8 minutes ago, Yrkul said:

The guy is a poser. There are plenty of red flags indicating a lack of professional familiarity with the terms and concepts he's trying to use. The only thing he bumblingly came close to getting right is, that patients with dysphoria often have co-morbidities, ie underlying and/or reinforcing conditions. The rest are disjointed claims, platitudes, and (as he himself confessed in a later post) dramatizations. And no, language barrier is NOT an excuse, since all higher education relying on up-to-date research involves reading large amounts of material in english. So he might be an orderly, but hardly someone making diagnoses.

What we are likely seeing, is an example of Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy 1 2 (clinical term is Factitious Disorder Imposed on Another), where the person in question takes on the role of protector, while reinforcing sickness/victimhood of the protectee. This does not need to be a specific person, but can target groups as well (Gad Saad calls this 'Collective Munchausen by Proxy' in his book The Parasitic Mind). Throw in the Dunning-Kruger effect, and you'll end up with a relationship, that can exacerbate the problem even further.

-------------------------------------

As for OP and her suggestion of pronoun tags, I would very much advise against it.

First of all, it is bound to be abused, as we see it in social media, to browbeat and label people, and reinforce polarization.

Second of all, there is already a counter-movement building up, and giving another example of pushing your ideologies onto others will only give said movement another target to rally against. And I seriously doubt DE want the culture war to spill over into this community, more than it has done already.

Thirdly, let me remind everyone, that we're scattered all over the globe, with different political, social and cultural facets making up each and every individual here. So when you use terminolgy and norms related to a rather narrow group, let alone expect others to use them as well, you start imposing your values on them. And that, once again, creates resentment.

Well damn, very well put, eloquent in-fact i actually learned some things ty.

[-pdf]

bro..

 

[Quest]

No

[Oggyswe]

8 hours ago, Yrkul said:

Thirdly, let me remind everyone, that we're scattered all over the globe, with different political, social and cultural facets making up each and every individual here. So when you use terminolgy and norms related to a rather narrow group, let alone expect others to use them as well, you start imposing your values on them. And that, once again, creates resentment.

Finally someone is bringing up the cultural aspect. The transgender stuff that is in english rather poorly translate to other cultures and im not cool with imposing such things on others. 

 

And the last thing i want is more resent ment created towards these things enough have already been caused by things.