Could you please remove the lengthy cooldown from Gyre's Cathode grace? It's really unfair.

[Prof-Dante]

I fail to find a reason for it, it always seems out of place, always.

like, Lavos has them because he has no energy, and they're there to prevent him from spamming abilities forever.
Dagath has one because it gives her a free revive...and her new augment allows it to cut it down.

Voruna has one because it also give her a free revive.

 

all abilities with a cooldown have cooldowns because they would be highly exploitable without.

But what does Gyre's 3 give us to exploit other than the augment? energy regen? so basically a worse Styanax? modded critical chance? so basically another worse Styanax?

everytime I try to activate this ability on the start of the mission I fail to find enough enemies to maximize it's duration...you have to always play a steel path survival with high enemy density and a good map to make this perfect condition, so basically highly situational.

I fall in a pit, the ability is ruined for an entire minute.

 

I am genuinely confused, like Dagath can keep up her superb Critical damage buff forever but Gyre can't hold an ability for less than one minute?

[sunderthefirmament]

5 minutes ago, Prof-Dante said:

I fall in a pit, the ability is ruined for an entire minute.

Add friendship doors, elevators, and slow teammates to the list.

 

Gyre can be a powerful frame only with massive investment and the Helminth.  That said, there's nothing in her base kit that warrants the cooldown on her 3.  So I agree with you, and believe it should be removed.  All it does is lead to toxicity and frustration.

[Birdframe_Prime]

2 hours ago, Prof-Dante said:

But what does Gyre's 3 give us to exploit other than the augment?

Ability Crit.

Also Crit Chance abilities all have some other form of balance to them, and many of them even have a cooldown of some variety. For example Harrow has to finish the ability and then cast the Invulnerability part and reset how much Crit he has. Styanax draws Aggro to himself and also doesn't add Crit Chance with Rally Point., he adds shield regen per kill. Meanwhile Dagath has an ability that is effectively infinite, but has a 25 second cooldown if you take lethal damage.

And Dagath is a really good example, to be fair. Because Gyre's ability is effectively just as infinite.

The difference between the two is that you negate Gyre's cooldown with kills, while Dagath will always have her cooldown if you take lethal damage.

3 hours ago, Prof-Dante said:

I fall in a pit, the ability is ruined for an entire minute.

Except it almost never can be an entire minute... That's just not how the ability works. Here, let me explain:

The cooldown starts from casting, not from end of cast, and in addition has a built-in function that subtracts the highest Duration you achieved for the ability from the cooldown if it gets cancelled early by falling in a pit. Basically if you have killed enough enemies to have 59 seconds of Duration at any point, then even if you fall into a pit with 20 seconds left, it subtracts 59 second from the cooldown and your ability has no cooldown. And if you get 0 kills with the ability active, then it only has the cooldown of the minute minus the base Duration. If you have 12 seconds of Duration, the cooldown is only 48 seconds if you have done absolutely nothing.

So basically even if you stand still and do nothing, you don't get a full minute's cooldown. Even if you stand still doing nothing and just proc the Status from your 4 on things that come near you before your allies kill them... you can't get a full minute's cooldown when the ability ends.

I mean... honestly, what are you doing to actually have a full minute cooldown? Jumping in that pit while you're casting?

The ability is functionally infinite if you kill things, and you can have up to 60 seconds of Duration on the clock due to kills, meaning that you've already outlasted the cooldown timer before the end of the ability if you do run out, and you have a full minute to find more enemies to kill to extend the timer if you want to keep it active.

It's there for active play, and if you're actively killing things... or even just helping to kill things by putting the Electric Status on them... then you don't have a cooldown.

I like to call the cooldown on Gyre's 3 a 'Are you actually paying attention?' function.

If you're paying attention to how the Ability works, what makes the ability work, and where these stats come from, then you would know that Gyre's 3 can effectively have no cooldown. Even if you fall in a pit.

[Prof-Dante]

25 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Ability Crit.

Also Crit Chance abilities all have some other form of balance to them, and many of them even have a cooldown of some variety. For example Harrow has to finish the ability and then cast the Invulnerability part and reset how much Crit he has. Styanax draws Aggro to himself and also doesn't add Crit Chance with Rally Point., he adds shield regen per kill. Meanwhile Dagath has an ability that is effectively infinite, but has a 25 second cooldown if you take lethal damage.

And Dagath is a really good example, to be fair. Because Gyre's ability is effectively just as infinite.

The difference between the two is that you negate Gyre's cooldown with kills, while Dagath will always have her cooldown if you take lethal damage.

Except it almost never can be an entire minute... That's just not how the ability works. Here, let me explain:

The cooldown starts from casting, not from end of cast, and in addition has a built-in function that subtracts the highest Duration you achieved for the ability from the cooldown if it gets cancelled early by falling in a pit. Basically if you have killed enough enemies to have 59 seconds of Duration at any point, then even if you fall into a pit with 20 seconds left, it subtracts 59 second from the cooldown and your ability has no cooldown. And if you get 0 kills with the ability active, then it only has the cooldown of the minute minus the base Duration. If you have 12 seconds of Duration, the cooldown is only 48 seconds if you have done absolutely nothing.

So basically even if you stand still and do nothing, you don't get a full minute's cooldown. Even if you stand still doing nothing and just proc the Status from your 4 on things that come near you before your allies kill them... you can't get a full minute's cooldown when the ability ends.

I mean... honestly, what are you doing to actually have a full minute cooldown? Jumping in that pit while you're casting?

The ability is functionally infinite if you kill things, and you can have up to 60 seconds of Duration on the clock due to kills, meaning that you've already outlasted the cooldown timer before the end of the ability if you do run out, and you have a full minute to find more enemies to kill to extend the timer if you want to keep it active.

It's there for active play, and if you're actively killing things... or even just helping to kill things by putting the Electric Status on them... then you don't have a cooldown.

I like to call the cooldown on Gyre's 3 a 'Are you actually paying attention?' function.

If you're paying attention to how the Ability works, what makes the ability work, and where these stats come from, then you would know that Gyre's 3 can effectively have no cooldown. Even if you fall in a pit.

Ok so the first thing I want to respond to from your reply is that yes I understand how the cooldown system works on her you don't have to explain...but if you take her to a steel path extermination, no, EDA or even Netracells, you're going to have a problem landing more than three kills initially...just try it. 

the fact that there is no way to cut the cooldown in terms of failure or a misstep that led you to fall is really unfortunate, and even if I got a few kills getting a 30 to 20 seconds of cooldown is also quite harsh.

the next thing is that ability crit, in my opinion is not a valid, exploitable reason enough to add a 60 second cooldown, Gyre's abilities need armor stripping, and she also needs survivability, Like I've said in one of my general discussion posts, she should be built like old school Warframe.

you have to add Pillage, you have to get some health and armor just in case Pillage spamming failed or Violence spawned.

 

and then her damage, that ability crit only has 200% critical multiplier, without outside 

sources, like Purple shards, armor strip, roar, the staple band-aid augment...the damage is mediocre...I'm fine with mediocre damage that needs outside sources, I'm not fine with it having a massive restriction!

honestly Birdframe I usually agree with most of your views on various topics for a long time, but I still don't understand how you can't see how terrible this cooldown is.

25 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

For example Harrow has to finish the ability and then cast the Invulnerability part and reset how much Crit he has. Styanax draws Aggro to himself and also doesn't add Crit Chance with Rally Point., he adds shield regen per kill.

First of all, Harrow gets an invulnerability period but not the crit buff, then the crit buff without invul, this is honestly a surprising example because there is a clear trade-off here, Gyre gets nothing.

next, I know Styanax doesn't get the crit buff from rally, I honestly don't know where you get that from my post.

I said she's a worse Styanax because he gets a free crit passive, without cooldowns or downsides...and his buff ability gives us overshields and energy so sustainable buff, again, I don't understand the point of this example.

Edited July 15 by Prof-Dante

[Raarsi]

I can understand that it's a cooldown for punishing inactivity, but 45 seconds is a bit excessive for it.  15 seconds seems like a fairer cooldown for it.

[Prof-Dante]

1 minute ago, Raarsi said:

I can understand that it's a cooldown for punishing inactivity, but 45 seconds is a bit excessive for it.  15 seconds seems like a fairer cooldown for it.

it's 60 but not counting the duration of the ability, probably 50 give or take

Edited July 15 by Prof-Dante

[Raarsi]

1 hour ago, Prof-Dante said:

it's 60 but not counting the duration of the ability, probably 50 give or take

Also yes.

[Ventura_Highway]

Have you tried waiting for a non-trivial group of enemies to appear to tag with her 1 and then activate Cathode Grace on?

[Birdframe_Prime]

2 hours ago, Prof-Dante said:

next, I know Styanax doesn't get the crit buff from rally, I honestly don't know where you get that from my post.

Uh, my dude, it's right here:

6 hours ago, Prof-Dante said:

energy regen? so basically a worse Styanax? modded critical chance? so basically another worse Styanax?

I mean... you wrote it? I'm not sure what you actually meant to say here, but you definitely wrote it.

2 hours ago, Prof-Dante said:

honestly Birdframe I usually agree with most of your views on various topics for a long time, but I still don't understand how you can't see how terrible this cooldown is.

I think the bit you're missing here is that it's not what we, the players, count as a powerful thing. It's what DE is trying to say is a powerful thing.

I mean, do you see the difference?

This is the first frame that has the Ability Crit function. Of course it's going to be terrible and balanced towards mediocrity, every single time DE release the first thing of anything it sucks. First weapon of its class? Always the worst version, until it's buffed up to standard later. The same for the first of anything else.

DE do release over-powered Warframes or Weapons, like your namesake, where they nerf them later, but that's because they're almost unilaterally an upgraded version of an existing thing. Dante with what is essentially Expedite Suffering turned up to 11 (originally) gets ranked as overpowered because he's tooled around a function that was already a limited thing and worked well enough that DE wanted to use it again, so when it becomes the de-facto meta for a short time, they nerf it back down again.

But that's the whole thing. The function is not what we call powerful, or even viable. It is, however, what they consider powerful because they've not done it on any other frame before now. Dante released overpowered because he was something DE thought they knew the power of and wanted to use more, and the player base saw to it that DE learned it was seen differently by us.

In light of this, you aren't going to get them to remove the cooldown. The more likely thing is that they'll buff the function up a little later to make people like the frame more, and then the cooldown will be actually 'balanced'.

And, worse, the next frame they release that has Ability Crit as a function will be genuinely powerful and worth using.

Penultimately:

2 hours ago, Prof-Dante said:

but if you take her to a steel path extermination, no, EDA or even Netracells, you're going to have a problem landing more than three kills initially...just try it

This needs to be said, because it's a lesson that people repeatedly do not take on board over the last 10 years I've been discussing frames on these Forums...

The frame is okay not being able to pull off all of their functions at higher level. A frame is okay to function at the level that you grind it at, and struggle if you go higher. This is, believe it or not, an acceptable place for a Warframe to be.

It has happened plenty of times in the past, and the result of it happening is that the usage of the frame declines and eventually gets addressed in some way. It does take a couple of years, but the cycle does work.

DE will, eventually, buff Gyre up to a more acceptable level, and it won't be through band-aid augments or similar silliness, it will be something that plays off her kit in some way. And it almost never will be what we expect.

Until they do, yes Gyre is a frame for lower-level farming and quick-clearing with her abilities and handling the regular level 50-55 Corpus/Grineer on the Zariman. That's where she inhabits, and that's going to give much, much clearer data to DE about her standing in the game than any feedback we give here. They're going to see that quantifiable data of thousands of players unlocking Gyre, levelling her, and sticking her in the Arsenal's back racks forever more. They're going to see thousands of players passing that point and not using her at higher MR, and they're going to have to address why, because that's not how DE like their game to be.

Rather than fighting against something that is clearly a difference in opinion between you and the Devs on the ability not being worth having that cooldown, you could add to the data by genuinely just shelving the frame and not playing them, to let the abandonment sink in.

And finally;

2 hours ago, Prof-Dante said:

Ok so the first thing I want to respond to from your reply is that yes I understand how the cooldown system works on her you don't have to explain

Apologies, this was a direct response to the sweeping statement made. And also driven by some of the other actually incorrect statements made (the Styanax one I quoted you on). I felt that you did need it explaining because you were directly talking about 'an entire minute'.

That's the kind of thing that does warrant an explanation, if not for you, then for the other people that are reading the thread and might be misled by the statement.

[Prof-Dante]

1 hour ago, Ventura_Highway said:

Have you tried waiting for a non-trivial group of enemies to appear to tag with her 1 and then activate Cathode Grace on?

yes, This is the only solution right now. 

[Prof-Dante]

1 hour ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

But that's the whole thing. The function is not what we call powerful, or even viable. It is, however, what they consider powerful because they've not done it on any other frame before now. Dante released overpowered because he was something DE thought they knew the power of and wanted to use more, and the player base saw to it that DE learned it was seen differently by us.

In light of this, you aren't going to get them to remove the cooldown. The more likely thing is that they'll buff the function up a little later to make people like the frame more, and then the cooldown will be actually 'balanced'.

And, worse, the next frame they release that has Ability Crit as a function will be genuinely powerful and worth using.

sad reality I guess :(

1 hour ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

This needs to be said, because it's a lesson that people repeatedly do not take on board over the last 10 years I've been discussing frames on these Forums...

The frame is okay not being able to pull off all of their functions at higher level. A frame is okay to function at the level that you grind it at, and struggle if you go higher. This is, believe it or not, an acceptable place for a Warframe to be.

It has happened plenty of times in the past, and the result of it happening is that the usage of the frame declines and eventually gets addressed in some way. It does take a couple of years, but the cycle does work.

DE will, eventually, buff Gyre up to a more acceptable level, and it won't be through band-aid augments or similar silliness, it will be something that plays off her kit in some way. And it almost never will be what we expect.

Until they do, yes Gyre is a frame for lower-level farming and quick-clearing with her abilities and handling the regular level 50-55 Corpus/Grineer on the Zariman. That's where she inhabits, and that's going to give much, much clearer data to DE about her standing in the game than any feedback we give here. They're going to see that quantifiable data of thousands of players unlocking Gyre, levelling her, and sticking her in the Arsenal's back racks forever more. They're going to see thousands of players passing that point and not using her at higher MR, and they're going to have to address why, because that's not how DE like their game to be.

Rather than fighting against something that is clearly a difference in opinion between you and the Devs on the ability not being worth having that cooldown, you could add to the data by genuinely just shelving the frame and not playing them, to let the abandonment sink in.

I actually do agree with this. but not to this extent.

I mean I talked earlier about frames designed for specific missions or roles, or ones that don't function universally.
but my point wasn't that Gyre is weak at EDA or steel path, it's the fact that she can't manage her 3 in those missions despite having high density enemies.

but other than that, yeah she doesn't have to obliterate these missions, I took Nidus to a profit taker fight once despite having absolutely no use there, and won, and that's where the fun comes from.

also 

1 hour ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Apologies

no need to it's ok! I hope I didn't come out as passive aggressive, I hate misunderstandings.

 

also I'm not trying to force DE to change the cooldown, maybe they will maybe they won't...I won't make a gazillion other posts and update each one of them daily to brute force it, I just want to let my frustrations out there you know? let it be heard I guess.

Edited July 15 by Prof-Dante

[Bratty_Child]

Gyre ability crit is capped at 300% anyway. People can helminth it for Nourish and use Energy Nexus and still have better outcome.

For a same weapon modifier as crit mod, half an energy nexus, flat crit chance on ability, and prolonged buff uptime circumstance, it sucks for having 60s cooldown. It like having unranked mods in your build that you can't take out for something better and you're forced to buff the very same modifier you're stuck with from outside source.

[Birdframe_Prime]

1 hour ago, Bratty_Child said:

yre ability crit is capped at 300% anyway.

To be clear:

On 2024-07-15 at 11:21 PM, Birdframe_Prime said:

I think the bit you're missing here is that it's not what we, the players, count as a powerful thing. It's what DE is trying to say is a powerful thing.

I mean, do you see the difference?

It doesn't matter if a function is limited or doesn't actually end up being as powerful as they think it is. The balance points DE put in are for the effect they think they're adding.

[Zakkhar]

Oh no, it is this thread again.

I run Gyre with negative Duration and I am fine. Just plan a head. Get in range of enemies before using any skills. Pop your 4 first, then 3, then kill everything.  This ability can be up forever if you provide enough KPM to it, just like Eternal War or Lasting Covenant but without the need for separate mod for this functionality. It needs to have a drawback. Do not like it? Do not use it. But this:

2 hours ago, Bratty_Child said:

People can helminth it for Nourish and use Energy Nexus and still have better outcome.

Makes it pretty obvious you have no clue what you are talking about as Gyre kit simply doesnt achieve any functionality without this ability and its augument: https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Cathode_Current

Helminthless kit doesnt need any energy efficiency because it hardly casts anything after initial 4, 3. Main reason for having the energy regen is spamming whatever Armor stripping ability you have subsumed as things die over and over again. Subsuming over 3 for energy efficiiency is like cutting off both legs, sellling them on black market and buying expensive wheelchair.

Edited July 18 by Zakkhar

[Lirven]

What bothers me more is that the ability cannot be restarted without jumping off a cliff or deliberately hitting the nullifier dome, it would be great to restart 3 simply by pressing it, as is the case with 4

[Zakkhar]

58 minutes ago, Lirven said:

What bothers me more is that the ability cannot be restarted without jumping off a cliff or deliberately hitting the nullifier dome, it would be great to restart 3 simply by pressing it, as is the case with 4

Multiple other Warframe abilities cannot be restarted without running out/jumping off a cliff/hitting nullifier dome. Do those bother you too?

[Prof-Dante]

48 minutes ago, Zakkhar said:

Multiple other Warframe abilities cannot be restarted without running out/jumping off a cliff/hitting nullifier dome. Do those bother you too?

I don't understand the reason for defending the awfully long cooldown to be honest.

a lot of Warframes have an ability that is so trivial for the rest of their kit, imagine feast getting a 60 second cooldown.
like why are you so eager to defend it is beyond me to be honest.

15 hours ago, Zakkhar said:

Do not like it? Do not use it. But this:

how does this work with 

15 hours ago, Zakkhar said:

as Gyre kit simply doesnt achieve any functionality without this ability

this?

man even your reasoning is bad

Edited July 19 by Prof-Dante

[Zakkhar]

1 minute ago, Prof-Dante said:

I don't understand the reason for defending to be honest.

Let me explain: I like complex things, I like Warframes that have high skill ceiling - require knowledge, understanding, planning, strategy and execution to shine the brightest. If something is easy and mundane to the point you cannot do anything wrong it takes away from the satisfaction when you finally got it right. If you never felt the bitterness of a failure, you will not be able to fully experience the success. Have I had Cathode grace fall off completely or fail to propagate? Sure, many times. Some of those were my fault entirely and the mistakes I learn from to strive to be better.

Sure, DE could just copy pasted old abilities mechanics with changed stats to every new warframe, but they want to be creative and come up with new, original mechanics. New and original mechanics needs balancing - sometimes it is in the shape of high risk, high reward. If you take away the high risk completely, it will inevitably end in nerfing the high reward from Balance/Development standpoint, but it also kills the dopamine mechanism in player brain.

You may draw fun/happiness/satisfaction from different things in life. You may want simple and mundane over complex and high risk. It is your right. Find what works for you and stick to it. Do not attempt to change or impose a change on the things that make other people happy and then gaslight them when they protest.

[Zakkhar]

22 minutes ago, Prof-Dante said:

15 hours ago, Zakkhar said:

Do not like it? Do not use it. But this:

how does this work with 

15 hours ago, Zakkhar said:

as Gyre kit simply doesnt achieve any functionality without this ability

this?

man even your reasoning is bad

It's not bad, it's just incomprehensible to you. 

Stay off Gyre completely. It is clearly not your thing. Stick to low skill/knowledge ceiling frames. There is so many. Some of them way more powerful than Gyre. Some of them quite OP.

Edited July 19 by Zakkhar

[sunderthefirmament]

1 hour ago, Zakkhar said:

Multiple other Warframe abilities cannot be restarted without running out/jumping off a cliff/hitting nullifier dome. Do those bother you too?

It's the inconsistency for me.  Like with Chroma you can recast Vex Armor, but not Elemental Ward for some reason?  There are a few cases where this makes sense, like Mirage's Hall of Mirrors arguably can't be recastable during its duration due to the Hall of Malevolence augment stacking into infinity.  But there are others where it just feels awful, like DE hasn't gone back and added modern conveniences to older frames.  Looking at you, Trinity (3), Nova (1), Rhino (2), etc.

 

For me, benefits of the skill aside, it feels out of place that Gyre has this cooldown while other abilities with refresh conditions do not.

 

I really wish I could find the most recent thread that referred to Gyre's discordant cooldown, because some of us have already hashed this out.  At length.

[Zakkhar]

Just now, sunderthefirmament said:

t's the inconsistency for me.  Like with Chroma you can recast Vex Armor,

Technically it is not recasting at all, but manual propagation (same as Cathode grace Kill propagation). In both cases you only get longer duration. It however does not snap shot current power STR levels, which is the main reason to recast a buff ability. The power STR stays in the same place as it was during original cast.

3 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

but not Elemental Ward for some reason?

For some reason. You have to ask yourself: what could  that reason be? Do those abilities function the same? Do the augments to those abilities function the same? Or maybe there is something you miss? Actually I am pretty sure you totally can recast Ward if you cycle to another color with your 1.

6 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

Looking at you, Trinity (3), Nova (1), Rhino (2), etc.

Trinity is sadly long forgotten powercrept by better new frames like Wisp or Dante.

Nova 1 is recastable with Augument: Neutron Star | WARFRAME Wiki | Fandom it was sadly nerfed a long time ago, you can also propagate Nova 1 with Augument for her 4 (which I usine on all 3 of my Nova builds): Molecular Fission | WARFRAME Wiki | Fandom

As for Rhino, I actually like this feature, because you have to remember to rebuff yourself and teammates and you have to find a space and time to do so in order to both be safe yourself, affect as many teammates as possible and influence key moments where it is needed (eg. Demolyst hunt). If you could cast it anywhere any time, much of this delibaration and planning would not be required and it would take away from the agency and fun of playing Rhino as a team buffer.

12 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

For me, benefits of the skill aside, it feels out of place that Gyre has this cooldown while other abilities with refresh conditions do not.

New abilities mechanics = new abilities downsides. That is the price i am totally willing to pay for development of new stuff.

14 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

I really wish I could find the most recent thread that referred to Gyre's discordant cooldown, because some of us have already hashed this out.  At length.

You mean this one? 

 

[sunderthefirmament]

3 minutes ago, Zakkhar said:

You mean this one? 

I do, thanks. Wow. It’s by the same person. 
 

I’ve already said my piece on this there, so I’ll just bow out now. My opinions haven’t changed, and I don’t see any point in rehashing this with the same people in a post from the same person lol. 
 

Thanks again for the link!

[Prof-Dante]

4 hours ago, Zakkhar said:

Stick to low skill/knowledge ceiling frames.

haha, wait why did you have to word it that way? 

it almost feels like you underestimate my intelligence...only for a cooldown? come on man you don't have to be that way...

 

there is literally no skill ceiling with gyre you pop 3 and 4 and then shoot things. with a cooldown that punishes you harshly for no inherit reason.

all you're saying is "I have 9000 IQ and you clearly don't understand the complexity and nuance of being handicapped" 

Edited July 19 by Prof-Dante

[Zakkhar]

8 hours ago, Prof-Dante said:

13 hours ago, Zakkhar said:

Stick to low skill/knowledge ceiling frames.

haha, wait why did you have to word it that way? 

Spoiler

You did not read my explaination, did you?

Because that is a fact. That is the very definition of the word.

If there is some sort of high risk high reward play, skill shots you have to aim manually, not just point and click on the enemy, rotations you have to stick to that will break the basic character interaction. move and position in a certain way this usually means high skill ceiling. If someone cant handle hurdles, they can either learn to do it by extensive training and hard work or they can stick to normal running without the need to jump through the hoops. Or do not run at all. It is pretty simple idea. Not everyone needs to be able to do everything. People who suck at hurdles do not run around advocatng to ban hurdles (although with massive pc/snowflake culture we have atm I would not be suprised if they did)

8 hours ago, Prof-Dante said:

It almost feels like you underestimate my intelligence...only for a cooldown? come on man you don't have to be that way...

Skill and knowledge have nothing to do with intelligence. As does hurdles. Gaslight others, but play victim when called on it:

13 hours ago, Prof-Dante said:

I don't understand the reason for defending the awfully long cooldown to be honest.

like why are you so eager to defend it is beyond me to be honest.

man even your reasoning is bad

8 hours ago, Prof-Dante said:

there is literally no skill ceiling with gyre you pop 3 and 4 and then shoot things. with a cooldown that punishes you harshly for no inherit reason.

The point is, the cooldown doesnt even occur if you do it right. It "punishes" you in order to communicate that you have done the simple task wrong. There is a reason. Creator of the abiliity intended for certain conditions to be met and you failed to meet them. Why? Because the frame/ability on release was pretty OP and needed balancing. Is it OP now? Not quite as much and the augument is mandatory.

8 hours ago, Prof-Dante said:

all you're saying is "I have 9000 IQ and you clearly don't understand the complexity and nuance of being handicapped" 

I say no such thing, but your interpretation says more about you than you'd like to admit.

Edited July 20 by Zakkhar

[L3512]

13 hours ago, Zakkhar said:

Stay off Gyre completely. It is clearly not your thing. Stick to low skill/knowledge ceiling frames. There is so many. Some of them way more powerful than Gyre. Some of them quite OP.

Gyre has no skill ceiling, you activate two abilities and nuke everything, bonus points if you use pillage and I guess you could run a viral primer too but that's unnecessary.

The long cool down is an artificial trap in her kit to make it seem like she is completely not basic af.