Warframe is a game held back by how easy it is

[PublikDomain]

41 minutes ago, kuciol said:

Nah, trial were just boring, forced group content that most players didnt want to touch. Nobody likes being forced to work in group.

And others clearly feel differently than you. And that's fine, you don't need to play with a group if you don't like it. But:

Spoiler

"Nobody", huh? Another lie.

41 minutes ago, kuciol said:

And by that you make frames that rely only on that unplayable. Players will either deal with it the same way we do with nulifiers so it becomes irrelevant or the content will not be played at all since you force players to play meta. 

Yeah no S#&$, that's why I advocate for the alternative.

42 minutes ago, kuciol said:

I asked this 20 times already. How? How can you balance something so vastly different as Loki and Rhino, Saryn and Titania? Felarx and Trumna? This game was never balanced and never will. The momment you balance around top end the bottom end becomes unplayable. You balance around middle, top end cheeses it. That was always the case with every new content.

By reducing the difference between the top and bottom.

[dwqrf]

Il y a 1 heure, traybong111 a dit :

Pretending you're less capable than a grade schooler just to drag out some online argument

 

Il y a 1 heure, 4thBro a dit :

A-bhduh-buhduh-buhduh

 

il y a une heure, 4thBro a dit :

"Are you saying that 2+2=4?"

"No, I'm saying that 1+1+1+1=4."

So you think those people voting for the return of trials which they never played, can't spell, can't do maths, use logic, or even stand on a pressure plate for 3mn, would remember a 8 players strat involving codes and timing ? Nah, they wouldn't even be picked in the group. Great use of time of money for a non-playable content. Warframe players don't want that. In fact, they don't even want to stay in netracell red circle. Because that's not what the game is about.

[4thBro]

3 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

In fact, they don't even want to stay in netracell red circle. Because that's not what the game is about.

Well, the game is about collecting. Right?

They gotta stay in the red circle if they wanna collect their reward.

 

 

 

 

Also, wait, hold on, now!

  

2 hours ago, dwqrf said:

Yeah... Right Einstein. We are all stupid and you are the only one that make sense here. 

Now screech some more.

9 hours ago, dwqrf said:

No, I'm sorry, you said many times that the playerbase were stupid players and that you are smarter than them, and only you can see that there is a issue with the endgame, and that eventually, casual players will find it out too. And that DE needs to make more endgame for you or else, they'll lose money. Your words.

11 hours ago, dwqrf said:

But we all know you are the best player in the universe, every other person in the world and beyond are just disabled dumb idiots, and that all the developpers should catter to your special needs, dismissing everyone else because they don't deserve it ; and if they do deserve it at some point, that's just because eventually, they would evolve to think just like you.

 

But then... also...

 

7 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

So you think those people voting for the return of trials which they never played, can't spell, can't do maths, use logic, or even stand on a pressure plate for 3mn, would remember a 8 players strat involving codes and timing ?

Waaaaaaaait... What's going on, here???

Are you calling the average player dumb stupid idiots????

 

YOU?

The Saint of General Chat???

The Repeller of All That Is Evil???

He who hath BANISHED the sinister 4thBro?????

[dwqrf]

il y a 4 minutes, 4thBro a dit :

-snip-

Ho look, the idiot with his imaginary friends understood I was talking about them ! It's screeching again ! Take cover !

[4thBro]

1 minute ago, dwqrf said:

Ho look, the idiot with his imaginary friends understood I was talking about them ! It's screeching again ! Take cover !

Hahahahaha, I'll take this as another Victory Trophy. I'm going to need another cabinet soon.

 

They're kinda empty trophies, though, aren't they? I'm definitely punching down in these discussions of ours...

[dwqrf]

à l’instant, 4thBro a dit :

Hahahahaha, I'll take this as another Victory Trophy. I'm going to need another cabinet soon.

 

They're kinda empty trophies, though, aren't they? I'm definitely punching down in these discussions of ours...

Take all the imaginary trophies as you want buddy, anyways, nobody will ever win a discussion with a sick narcissistic perverse like you. Even with logic, facts, quotes, you'll always run away in your little imaginary world of non sense, fallacies and strawmaning. And that's a fact.

[RichardKam]

9小时前 , PublikDomain 说:

"Are there plans to bring back raids or some form of larger group content?

Megan: Oh, trials. Oh, what a time. We have, I think on your whiteboard, there has been an idea for trials for quite some time. But it's all about balancing what we want to do. Obviously, the story. Warframe:1999 was huge. So, it has a place, it has a time. We just gotta see when it fits in. But we do have ideas for it, and we want to bring it back. We want it to feel like what Warframe represents now and not go back to what it was. So, yeah, it's a big project.

Rebecca: The thing we miss most about them is having to coordinate with the team. That's our white whale right now. It's a coordination-based mission."
-Digital Extremes, 2024

-The Warframe community, 2022

"Players would like to see Trials come back, in addition to some more challenging end game content"
-Digital Extremes, 2022

Yeah, if DE do that, congrat to you.

Just remember, when people asked for raid, which was a coordinated hard mission, with boss, with choreographic attack, and big rewards, DE gave you archon hunt, which without a single doubt fulfill all of the above, and it is solo-able.

When was the last time DE added something that was forced co-op? Dog days? When they did, they were poorly received by the players.

I don't know about the trials because they were long gone before I joined this game. But as far as I know, solar rail conflict was a big mess that no one was particularly happy about it.

Anyway, good luck

[MrInubis]

7 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

By reducing the difference between the top and bottom.

I asked you how without destroying frames identity and feeling of progression.

 

7 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

"Nobody", huh? Another lie.

In normal mission you also have cooperation. Players want to play with randoms, not be forced to premade and be forced to play certain way. Thats why WoW introduced LFR. 

 

7 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

Yeah no S#&$, that's why I advocate for the alternative.

What alternative? All you do is throw empty statements. I want this, i want that, they should this but not a single word on how.

[Loza03]

3 hours ago, kuciol said:

I asked you how without destroying frames identity and feeling of progression.

Again, not Publik, but frame already has a couple issues rearing their ugly heads. Not yet critically a problem, but of the last 5 frames released, Jade and Dante are both powerful support/damage hybrids, and Qorvex, Dagath and Kullervo are all high-damage frames, with Qorvex and Dagath both having a cinematic dramatic attack where they stand still for their 4 -the former resembling Wisp and the latter Styanax. 

Fewer and fewer frames are being dedicated primarily to power fantasies that aren't the 'do big damage' fantasies. Gauss and Grendel seem almost like a cut-off point. Before them, frames that weren't just dedicated to big damage were pretty common. Hildryn, Revenant, Gara. Hell, even Khora, despite being a big nuker for a while is actually kind of a jack-of-all-trades when you look at her abilities, with several CC options and even a heal through Venari.

Then afterwards? A lot more frames that are either pure damage or support/damage hybrids, having some big damage powers and 

Protea is another support/damage hybrid. Xaku has a couple CC powers but has a damage buff and one CC translates directly to damage, Lavos is big damage, Sevagoth has a soft CC but is primarily damage across his 6 powers, Yareli is actually a dedicated CC frame (and was widely panned at launch), Caliban was a mess but had a bunch of direct attack abilities to theoretically be a damage frame, Gyre is a damage frame, Styanax is mostly a damage dealer with a touch of support, Voruna is a damage frame, Citrine is a proper support, Kullervo is big damage, Dagath has a bunch of debuffs (to increase her damage dealt), Qorvex is big damage, Dante is a support/damage hybrid (and was hugely overpowered in both) and Jade is another support/damage frame. We don't know what Cyte-09's deal is, but given Quincy's vibe of being a sniper and being said to be a 'soldier' Warframe, it's pretty likely that damage will be a big factor.

 

 

Frame's are still keeping identity via their strong theming, don't get me wrong, and even frames that have dipped back into an old theme (Protea/Vauban, Yareli/Hydroid, Gyre/Volt and Citrine/Atlas) have done so in ways that really keep themselves distinct. We're not at a point where frames are at risk of becoming homogenous, and after 57 frames I think Warframe will die before we get to that point. But if the worry is 'how will we keep frame identity', then if anything, the current progression of the Meta that puts high damage output as king and other power fantasies as subordinate seems to be more of a threat than a stat squish would be.

[Rexis12]

1 hour ago, Loza03 said:

Fewer and fewer frames are being dedicated primarily to power fantasies that aren't the 'do big damage' fantasies

Then maybe the community at large should've been more vocal when they introduced Overguard to enemies. 

It had issues from the start, but noooooooo:

"Oh just shoot them"

"CC is dead anyway, this is better"

"Sorry that gameplay isn't brain dead for you"

I called it the second it limited only CC abilities, and lo and behold they now have to design their Warframes with Overguard in mind inadvertently causing them all to be damaged focus. 

[PublikDomain]

6 hours ago, kuciol said:

I asked you how without destroying frames identity and feeling of progression.

6 hours ago, kuciol said:

What alternative? All you do is throw empty statements. I want this, i want that, they should this but not a single word on how.

You take the number.

And you type in the different number.

*magic*

6 hours ago, kuciol said:

In normal mission you also have cooperation.

In what way? When do you cooperate in normal missions? Buddy doors?

6 hours ago, kuciol said:

Players want to play with randoms, not be forced to premade and be forced to play certain way. Thats why WoW introduced LFR. 

The thing we miss most about them is having to coordinate with the team. That's our white whale right now. It's a coordination-based mission.
-Rebecca Ford, Creative Director of Warframe, 2024

🤷‍♀️

[PublikDomain]

2 hours ago, Loza03 said:

But if the worry is 'how will we keep frame identity', then if anything, the current progression of the Meta that puts high damage output as king and other power fantasies as subordinate seems to be more of a threat than a stat squish would be.

Correct. It's the same thing with the concern people have with "blandness". If that's a real concern, then what we have is already something they should be very concerned about. We already have this issue and the solution isn't to ignore it and do nothing.

For example, Ember's Fireball recently got buffed to what, 2-16k damage? oooOOOooo 👻👻👻 my Khora hits for 150 times that in raw damage alone. Why would I ever use Ember for killing enemies? I can do that with anything. And Ember's deals good damage compared to other abilities. What about poor Banshee? Sound Quake deals 200 Blast DPS 🤓. Sonic Boom? 50 Impact damage. 50. My Khora deals 50,000 times more than that in one Whipclaw - and that's just the raw damage not counting procs. You'd have to Sonic Boom someone for 14 minutes. And yet both are damage-dealing 1st abilities and both cost 25 Energy.

So if there's some concern with frames keeping their "identity", then what is a frame like Banshee's "identity" right now? "Just cast Silence and Sonar and ignore the other two"? What is the "identity" of Sonic Boom and Sound Quake? "Augment or ignore" and "free subsume slot"? Ember's identity? "Kills low level mobs worse than Thermal Sunder" and "has butt"?

[RichardKam]

1分钟前 , PublikDomain 说:

Correct. It's the same thing with the concern people have with "blandness". If that's a real concern, then what we have is already something they should be very concerned about. We already have this issue and the solution isn't to ignore it and do nothing.

For example, Ember's Fireball recently got buffed to what, 2-16k damage? oooOOOooo 👻👻👻 my Khora hits for 150 times that in raw damage alone. Why would I ever use Ember for killing enemies? I can do that with anything. And Ember's deals good damage compared to other abilities. What about poor Banshee? Sound Quake deals 200 Blast DPS 🤓. Sonic Boom? 50 Impact damage. 50. My Khora deals 50,000 times more than that in one Whipclaw - and that's just the raw damage not counting procs. You'd have to Sonic Boom someone for 14 minutes. And yet both are damage-dealing 1st abilities and both cost 25 Energy.

So if there's some concern with frames keeping their "identity", then what is a frame like Banshee's "identity" right now? "Just cast Silence and Sonar and ignore the other two"? What is the "identity" of Sonic Boom and Sound Quake? "Augment or ignore" and "free subsume slot"? Ember's identity? "Kills low level mobs worse than Thermal Sunder" and "has butt"?

*Sigh*

I really don't want to reply to this topic anymore but for Orokin sake, please stop. You are embarrassing yourself. It is so cringe I cannot read this.

Are you going to say Dagath Wyrd Scythe is garbage because it is no where as damaging as Khora? Are you going to say Nekros Soul Punch is worthless because it is weak? Sometimes I wonder, do you actually play this game? Or are you just trolling?

Because it got to be the only reason why you want to stat squish not only apple and orange, but also salmon and vodka and beef, and was like "why not? How hard can it be? That will be the best thing ever happened to cooking!"

[MrInubis]

53 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

You take the number.

And you type in the different number.

*magic*

It doesnt work like that due to mechanical differences betwen weapons and frames.

 

53 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

In what way? When do you cooperate in normal missions? Buddy doors?

Killing enemies, buffing each other, reviving, opening relics, getting lures for eidolons this kind of stuff. Thats also cooperation i dont care its not for your liking

 

53 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

The thing we miss most about them is having to coordinate with the team. That's our white whale right now. It's a coordination-based mission.
-Rebecca Ford, Creative Director of Warframe, 2024

You know what white whale symbolizes? Something that you will never get. They tried with netracels, eda, eidolons, railjack and orbs. Thats the kind of content you can expect. Its their call if its worth it or not to make some forced coop but it will turn out the same way old trials. Players that want this kind of content play different games already, its bound to fail. Even in this topic its like 2 of you that want it vs everyone else that dont. Thats says a lot  dont you think?

Edited August 24 by kuciol

[4thBro]

19 minutes ago, RichardKam said:

*Sigh*

I really don't want to reply to this topic anymore but for Orokin sake, please stop. You are embarrassing yourself. It is so cringe I cannot read this.

Are you going to say Dagath Wyrd Scythe is garbage because it is no where as damaging as Khora? Are you going to say Nekros Soul Punch is worthless because it is weak? Sometimes I wonder, do you actually play this game? Or are you just trolling?

Because it got to be the only reason why you want to stat squish not only apple and orange, but also salmon and vodka and beef, and was like "why not? How hard can it be? That will be the best thing ever happened to cooking!"

Wyrd Scythe applies guaranteed Viral.

Without that, yes, it would be garbage.

 

Soul Punch is useless for its damage as well, which is what you're both talking about right now.

Once again, you slipped in a red herring. You pulled the rug, if you will. The subject was A, and then you changed it to B real quick so that you could make it look like he was wrong. The subject was about the damage values of these abilities. You flipped the subject to be about utility. But even then, it's selective, huh?

Ember's Fireball has virtually zero utility at all. But you didn't compare Fireball utility to Wyrd Scythe utility. All you did was say, "Wyrd Scythe is a really good ability, and it just so happens that it deals ability damage. Therefore, ability damage spells are perfectly fine!"

This is... of course... a fallacy!

WEEWOO, WEEWOO, WEEWOO~

 

The non-sequitur fallacy.

 

The thread seems to be dying down, and thank god for that.

But for any human being that actually desires to better themselves, and be an honest person... You need to actually look into what logical fallacies are, why they are a problem, and why it's important to be educated on them.

I can help you out. Take a look at some of these.

 

 

Top Google result on the definition of a logical fallacy. Take a second to read that, and try to understand how logical fallacies can disrupt a conversation, often irreparably.

Here's another summary, from Perdue University:

 

 

Here is another Google summary, with the inquiry being slightly different:

 

 

Take a moment to read this one. This explains why it's important to be aware of fallacies, both, so that you may present your argument better, and also so that you may filter out faulty opposition. Doesn't that sound like a great tool to have at YOUR disposal?!?

 

Lastly... Here is the opening paragraph of an article on the topic. I will put the link to the whole article underneath. (It's not lengthy.)

If you are a human being that is interested in honest discussion, then I would firmly insist that this should be your very first step in accomplishing that.

 

 

https://thelogicofscience.com/2017/03/14/the-importance-of-logical-fallacies/

 

(Pretty funny author name, though, huh? LOL!)

[MrInubis]

You just did what you acuse other of. You completely and purposely missed the point. You have proven his point perfectly. You dont understand that the game is more than just numbers. You disregard any mechanical differences, secondary effect and pure "coolness value" of things. You want to talk about balance? Learn that there is more to it than just numbers. Thats why its better for you to move on and stop embarassing yourself with your 4th grade logic. Google will not help you when you cant comprehend what other try to convey.

Edited August 24 by kuciol

[4thBro]

1 minute ago, kuciol said:

You just did what you acuse other of. You completely and purposely missed the point. You have proven his point perfectly. You dont understand that the game is more than just numbers. You disregard any mechanical differences, secondary effect and pure "coolness value" of things. Thats why its better for you to move on and stop embarassing yourself with your 4th grade logic. 

Read the whole post now, instead of 7 words.

 

Here, let me show you a piece of what you skipped over.

 

45 minutes ago, 4thBro said:

Ember's Fireball has virtually zero utility at all.

 

[MrInubis]

2 minutes ago, 4thBro said:

Read the whole post now, instead of 7 words.

 

Here, let me show you a piece of what you skipped over.

 

 

Its has augment, its has fire status effect, good enough for 1st ability. BUt wHaT if IT DIdnt!?!?!?!

[PublikDomain]

1 hour ago, RichardKam said:

Are you going to say Dagath Wyrd Scythe is garbage because it is no where as damaging as Khora? Are you going to say Nekros Soul Punch is worthless because it is weak? Sometimes I wonder, do you actually play this game? Or are you just trolling?

The damage they deal are garbage. Why do you think DE added the 25% instakill threshold to Soul Punch in 2020? Because even four years ago 500 damage was worthless garbage when compared to the millions of damage players can deal in other ways.

Are you just ignorant of the scales at play here?

This is 500 damage:

◾

This is 2,500,000 damage:

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

That's why DE keeps having to give plain old damage-dealing abilities some other secondary effect or some augment. It used to be that you could have a frame like Banshee that just deals plain damage, but now the damage system is so completely rat#*!%ed that if an ability doesn't strip armor or instakill or scale with damage mods or have some other effect it's literally, objectively, factually, mathematically worthless.

1 hour ago, RichardKam said:

you want to stat squish not only apple and orange, but also salmon and vodka and beef, and was like "why not? How hard can it be? That will be the best thing ever happened to cooking!"

Yeah wow no S#&$ I want all the foods to be tasty. Wow it's almost like I keep saying this over and over and over again.

Meanwhile you're over here pointing to toenail clippings and dryer lint acting like we've got a feast.

[4thBro]

7 minutes ago, kuciol said:

You just did what you acuse other of. You completely and purposely missed the point. You have proven his point perfectly. You dont understand that the game is more than just numbers. You disregard any mechanical differences, secondary effect and pure "coolness value" of things. You want to talk about balance? Learn that there is more to it than just numbers. Thats why its better for you to move on and stop embarassing yourself with your 4th grade logic. Google will not help you when you cant comprehend what other try to convey.

Edited 5 minutes ago by kuciol

Lil bro really just edited his post because he forgot to add in the little insult at the end, LMAOOOOOOOOOOO!!

 

You're cooked. Go read that fallacy article. No video games until you finish your homework.

[MrInubis]

 

12 minutes ago, kuciol said:

Edited 9 minutes ago by kuciol

Posted 8 minutes ago

 

2 minutes ago, 4thBro said:

Lil bro really just edited his post because he forgot to add in the little insult at the end, LMAOOOOOOOOOOO!!

 

You're cooked. Go read that fallacy article. No video games until you finish your homework.

Try harder kiddo.

[4thBro]

3 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

This is 500 damage:

◾

This is 2,500,000 damage:

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

 

They're going to see this and think you're just exaggerating. They're not going to realize that this is the actual visualization of the comparison.

[MrInubis]

1 minute ago, 4thBro said:

 

They're going to see this and think you're just exaggerating. They're not going to realize that this is the actual visualization of the comparison.

No. We just know there is more to things than just dmg numbers. Just look at recently added weapons Okina and Velox prime. Stat wise they are middle of the pack even in their own class and yet DE still added them like that. Guess why?

[PublikDomain]

1 hour ago, kuciol said:

It doesnt work like that due to mechanical differences betwen weapons and frames.

Between weapons and weapons it absolutely does. Between weapons and frames? No S#&$.

And what mechanical difference is there between weapons and frame scaling? You're real close to getting it.

1 hour ago, kuciol said:

Killing enemies, buffing each other, reviving, opening relics, getting lures for eidolons this kind of stuff. Thats also cooperation i dont care its not for your liking

Killing enemies? Which is currently an anti-cooperative ratrace where whoever gets ahead of the pack gets to kill 99% of the map and the rest of the team gets to fight for the scraps?

Reviving? The thing that doesn't ever happen in normal content?

Opening Relics? Where you use others as an extra loot roll?

Lures for Eidolons? The thing that people do all on their own?

1 hour ago, kuciol said:

You know what white whale symbolizes? Something that you will never get.

Quote

an objective that is relentlessly or obsessively pursued but difficult to achieve.

"physicists struggled to close in on the Higgs boson—the great white whale of modern science"

🤔

1 hour ago, kuciol said:

Players that want this kind of content play different games already, its bound to fail. Even in this topic its like 2 of you that want it vs everyone else that dont. Thats says a lot  dont you think?

Yes, actually. It says that you've ignored the official survey of seventy thousand players that DE themselves surveyed just two short years ago in which only 10% of people said they did not want Raids to return. You've ignored DE themselves saying they want Raids to return. And as you've so cleverly pointed out - players that want this kind of content (the majority of players in this game) are leaving this game to get it. It's a market DE is losing players to which they could work to capture. Which they have said they want to do.

Meanwhile y'all keep speaking for DE like you run the place.

Edited August 24 by PublikDomain

[MrInubis]

1 minute ago, PublikDomain said:

No S#&$.

And what mechanical difference is there between weapons and frame scaling? You're real close to getting it.

Stop asking stupid questions. You know what differences there are, hell ive listed some already in this topic you just act like it didnt exist because you have no clue what to do when reality kicks in. 

 

3 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Killing enemies? Which is currently an anti-cooperative ratrace where whoever gets ahead of the pack gets to kill 99% of the map and the rest of the team gets to fight for the scraps?

Reviving? The thing that doesn't ever happen in normal content?

Opening Relics? Where you use others as an extra loot roll?

Lures for Eidolons? The thing that people do all on their own?

And yet players still do public runs with others, funny isnt it?

 

3 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Yes, actually. It says that you've ignored the official survey of seventy thousand players that DE themselves surveyed just two short years ago in which only 10% of people said they did not want Raids to return. You've ignored DE themselves saying they want Raids to return. And as you've so cleverly pointed out - players that want this kind of content (the majority of players in this game) are leaving this game to get it. It's a market DE is losing players to which they could work to capture. Which they have said they want to do.

Meanwhile y'all keep speaking for DE like you run the place.

And we got EDA and netracels, thats the replacement. You will wait for your raids another 10 years.