Warframe is a game held back by how easy it is

[dwqrf]

il y a 1 minute, 4thBro a dit :

I'm sorry, this does not continue to the topic of who you think makes the best cheeseburger. Please try again.

You had so much space, room, time, to participate, to share with us your ideas, your feelings, and you decided not to.

[4thBro]

There's 20 pages. You'll figure it out.

[dwqrf]

à l’instant, 4thBro a dit :

There's 20 pages. You'll figure it out.

I read it all. The only thing you said was :

Le 21/08/2024 à 22:33, 4thBro a dit :

While invisible, Loki gains +10,000% faction damage.

There. Now he does more damage than Saryn. Crazy how easy that was.

Is that all your contibution to how make an endgame in Warframe ? Please elaborate further. Politely, and staying on topic.

[TeaHands]

I'll just leave this here to set the mood.

 

[dwqrf]

il y a 1 minute, TeaHands a dit :

I'll just leave this here to set the mood.

Almost ! The right track was the Beauty and the Beast !

[4thBro]

27 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

I read it all. The only thing you said was :

Is that all your contibution to how make an endgame in Warframe ? Please elaborate further. Politely, and staying on topic.

Yes. Absolutely. My only contribution, and the only thing I've said in 20 pages, is that we should give Loki +10,000% faction damage.

You nailed it.

 

You, however, are refusing to answer who you think makes the best cheeseburger.

Such a simple question! And you can't even answer that. What a shame. You've contributed nothing to this topic.

[dwqrf]

il y a 5 minutes, 4thBro a dit :

You, however, are refusing to answer who you think makes the best cheeseburger.

Such a simple question! And you can't even answer that. What a shame. You've contributed nothing to this topic.

It's not this topic, but I'm glad to answer any of your question.

Well I'm not that bad at cooking myself, and I was lucky enough to work in a restaurant few years back with a really good gastronomic chef. I have some idea about what is good food.
Sadly, few years ago, he gave up his job to spend more time with his kids. Totally understandable.
At that time, we had a couple of friends from the mountain which had a really good food truck, making heavy cheese burger ; they decided to come back to my native region and tried to sell those greasy burger, but it wasn't that great in a summer hot tourist area. They still made a good flipping when settling in a small shop between two bars, and they were young people, so most young people from my village knew them and liked their food anyways.
After a few years, those food truck guys left to another place to have a better environement and less drunk people ; and I was really surprised to see my old chef deciding to go back to cooking ! He bought the place and asked me to work for him again. I had to decline, because I was already taken in another job.
I'm not sure which were the best between the food truck guys and my old chef, because they both followed the same recipe ; I think the old one were a bit messier, which sometimes is better, but the new one are a bit easier to eat. Anyways, they both have good local product and a fair price. Those are probably the best burgers in know.

The other best burger I could think of were the ones I ate when travelling in New Zealand 15 years ago but I can't really remember the name. I think it was burger fuel or something; it was a small chain.

Now, please tell us again about how to make an endgame in warframe.

[4thBro]

Well that made me hungry.

 

 

 

 

Anyway.

When I get home, I'm going to make a chart to help illustrate something.

Edited August 22 by 4thBro

[dwqrf]

il y a 10 minutes, 4thBro a dit :

Anyway.

When I get home, I'm going to make a chart to help illustrate something.

Can't wait ! I hope it's going to be about the topic on how to create a warframe endgame.

[PublikDomain]

17 hours ago, kuciol said:

When i did Second Dream Quest i had 120h....

Which is less than 2% of the playtime on my account right now, and there are a ton of people out there with 10k+ hours! When the progression you guys are talking about only lasts for such a tiny fraction of the actual time people put into this game, I really don't see how it makes sense to sacrifice the other 98% of the game to some stale, boring meta where only a handful of top things get used and the vast majority of mods, mechanics, weapons, frames, pets, and playstyles mathematically just suck. Nor why a short vertical progression that can last 1/10th of what you spent just to get to TSD - or just be skipped entirely with cash - should be valued above a long horizontal progression that can reach every aspect of the game.

Edited August 22 by PublikDomain

[4thBro]

This is the original post. Although it merely implies the addition of a meaningful endgame, the author, Kaiga, has later directly supported this idea.

This post (the OP) has the 3rd highest Likes in the thread, sitting at 20 at the time of me posting this.

 

This post, on page 1, is the highest Liked post in the thread, sitting at 33. Although it does not directly state a side of the fence, it could be acceptably argued that it sides against having an endgame, due to its implication that adding difficult content could possibly upset the average, [terrible] player. (Whom is suggested to have less than 5% of the game knowledge of other players.)

Ultimately, I view this post as a middle ground post. Like I said, it definitely suggests that most players would be upset over the addition of an endgame. However, what closes it in for me as a middle ground post is that it balances out by suggesting that the addition of an endgame does not need to be a bad thing at all.

And, again, this is the most Liked post in the thread. Something that's slightly ambiguous in overall position. This means that it would be heralding in Likes from both sides, or even all three sides.

 

And this...

This masterpiece is the second most Liked post in the thread. Also on page 1.

This completely absurd, totally ridiculous post. Possibly a troll post. Possibly an intentional joke post.

Regardless of how people took it.

It is objectively silly.

And it is the second most Liked post in the thread.

 

And after this...

Page 2 caps off with 8 Likes on a single post.

Page 3 caps off with 3 Likes on a single post.

And the pattern continues. It picks up here and there, but ultimately, people don't care about a topic past page 1. Doing so would not be within the overall mantra of 2024.

 

I say all of this because it presents the main topic, and shows where most people stand on it.

And what it's showing is that a lot of people are on both sides.

 

Okay.

Spoiler

Now let's start the conversation.

 

And that's where I'm gonna bring in the chart, to help break away from having to use a lot of words to show the same thing.

 

Our starting point is WF is too easy.

This is the starting point given to us by the OP, Kaiga.

Our goal - all of us - is to (objectively?) improve the game. We must figure out how to get there.

 

Many of us, including the OP, suggest having a proper endgame. So now our chart looks like this:

 

We must decide on whether an endgame is indeed the path to take. In my opinion, that seems logical. I'll make another chart to explain why.

 

The red line is the enemies. The blue line is the player.

At the start of the game, the player needs to acquire strength in order to compete with the rising power of the enemies. It's not totally consistent, as sometimes you feel overly strong, then next thing you know, you feel like you fell behind and need to level up your gameplay to get back on the curve. But overall, this whole experience is only while you're still new.

Eventually, the enemies cap off. Their growth flatlines.

But this happens WAYYYYY before your own flatline. You are able to continuously improve yourself. But after a certain point, there's no actual reason to. You are left with nothing to test yourself on. And that is why WF feels like an unfinished game.

To me, this naturally suggests that WF needs an endgame. That is what would fill in that red flatline.

 

So I vote Yes on endgame. And so do many others.

 

But many people vote No. And this should be where we try to get to the bottom of it. Why do people vote No? If not an endgame, what do they propose? Let me update the chart accordingly:

 

If you're going to say No to endgame, then you need to present us with the new subtopic that isn't endgame.

Never even mind the fact that we're skipping the part where you actually tell us why an endgame aint it. If you vote No on endgame, you gotta back it up, just like we can back up why we feel that we do need it.

But even skipping that... If not endgame, then what?

 

But speaking of skipping... this is where I have an additional problem with your nirvana fallacy.

You are actually skipping ahead. You are asking us... "What does the endgame look like? Tell us exactly. Give us the details."

Allow me to update the chart accordingly:

Do you see my confusion here?

 

Your question that you keep trying to press me on... is the following step AFTER accepting that we do, in fact, need an endgame.

So... are you voting Yes on endgame??? Because I'm pretty sure you've been voting No this whole time. I don't want to misrepresent you. But this is, in fact, why fallacies are problematic. They lead to malfunctioning conversation sequences.

It makes no logical sense that you are voting No on endgame, but are trying to discuss Step 2 of the Endgame Path. Never even mind the nirvana fallacy. Are you trying to tell me that you're voting Yes on endgame???

 

As it stands, nobody has any obligation to sit at the drawing board and present anyone with a 50 page essay on how endgame needs to be designed and programmed and integrated into Warframe.

We aren't there yet in the conversation.

We are still deciding between Yes and No.

[(PSN)ErydisTheLucario]

17 minutes ago, 4thBro said:

This is the original post. Although it merely implies the addition of a meaningful endgame, the author, Kaiga, has later directly supported this idea.

This post (the OP) has the 3rd highest Likes in the thread, sitting at 20 at the time of me posting this.

 

This post, on page 1, is the highest Liked post in the thread, sitting at 33. Although it does not directly state a side of the fence, it could be acceptably argued that it sides against having an endgame, due to its implication that adding difficult content could possibly upset the average, [terrible] player. (Whom is suggested to have less than 5% of the game knowledge of other players.)

Ultimately, I view this post as a middle ground post. Like I said, it definitely suggests that most players would be upset over the addition of an endgame. However, what closes it in for me as a middle ground post is that it balances out by suggesting that the addition of an endgame does not need to be a bad thing at all.

And, again, this is the most Liked post in the thread. Something that's slightly ambiguous in overall position. This means that it would be heralding in Likes from both sides, or even all three sides.

 

And this...

This masterpiece is the second most Liked post in the thread. Also on page 1.

This completely absurd, totally ridiculous post. Possibly a troll post. Possibly an intentional joke post.

Regardless of how people took it.

It is objectively silly.

And it is the second most Liked post in the thread.

 

And after this...

Page 2 caps off with 8 Likes on a single post.

Page 3 caps off with 3 Likes on a single post.

And the pattern continues. It picks up here and there, but ultimately, people don't care about a topic past page 1. Doing so would not be within the overall mantra of 2024.

 

I say all of this because it presents the main topic, and shows where most people stand on it.

And what it's showing is that a lot of people are on both sides.

 

Okay.

  Hide contents

Now let's start the conversation.

 

And that's where I'm gonna bring in the chart, to help break away from having to use a lot of words to show the same thing.

 

Our starting point is WF is too easy.

This is the starting point given to us by the OP, Kaiga.

Our goal - all of us - is to (objectively?) improve the game. We must figure out how to get there.

 

Many of us, including the OP, suggest having a proper endgame. So now our chart looks like this:

 

We must decide on whether an endgame is indeed the path to take. In my opinion, that seems logical. I'll make another chart to explain why.

 

The red line is the enemies. The blue line is the player.

At the start of the game, the player needs to acquire strength in order to compete with the rising power of the enemies. It's not totally consistent, as sometimes you feel overly strong, then next thing you know, you feel like you fell behind and need to level up your gameplay to get back on the curve. But overall, this whole experience is only while you're still new.

Eventually, the enemies cap off. Their growth flatlines.

But this happens WAYYYYY before your own flatline. You are able to continuously improve yourself. But after a certain point, there's no actual reason to. You are left with nothing to test yourself on. And that is why WF feels like an unfinished game.

To me, this naturally suggests that WF needs an endgame. That is what would fill in that red flatline.

 

So I vote Yes on endgame. And so do many others.

 

But many people vote No. And this should be where we try to get to the bottom of it. Why do people vote No? If not an endgame, what do they propose? Let me update the chart accordingly:

 

If you're going to say No to endgame, then you need to present us with the new subtopic that isn't endgame.

Never even mind the fact that we're skipping the part where you actually tell us why an endgame aint it. If you vote No on endgame, you gotta back it up, just like we can back up why we feel that we do need it.

But even skipping that... If not endgame, then what?

 

But speaking of skipping... this is where I have an additional problem with your nirvana fallacy.

You are actually skipping ahead. You are asking us... "What does the endgame look like? Tell us exactly. Give us the details."

Allow me to update the chart accordingly:

Do you see my confusion here?

 

Your question that you keep trying to press me on... is the following step AFTER accepting that we do, in fact, need an endgame.

So... are you voting Yes on endgame??? Because I'm pretty sure you've been voting No this whole time. I don't want to misrepresent you. But this is, in fact, why fallacies are problematic. They lead to malfunctioning conversation sequences.

It makes no logical sense that you are voting No on endgame, but are trying to discuss Step 2 of the Endgame Path. Never even mind the nirvana fallacy. Are you trying to tell me that you're voting Yes on endgame???

 

As it stands, nobody has any obligation to sit at the drawing board and present anyone with a 50 page essay on how endgame needs to be designed and programmed and integrated into Warframe.

We aren't there yet in the conversation.

We are still deciding between Yes and No.

I like how structured this post was. And I like the graphs. We didn't have the most civil conversation, but even i cant hate this logic. I vote yes.

[CharallChaos]

I watched an ad for warframe today.

It showed a rhino battling up the stairs in a tusk plains base, jumping, hitting shots, taking cover, using abilities, finishing enemies, and generally being a space noob in every sense of the word.

Well heck I'd not play that game. 

But actual in game warframe?

Slam kong thermal sunder, sometimes. Aoe explosions barely fill the map. 

There is so much threat to the survival of the player, alot of reason to remember what the enemies do or even look like, as they're increasing in damage in seconds because I forget how to play.

Why do any of that rocket launcher stuff from the ad when you can just cool space ninja everything?

If this game had even a modicum of easyness at higher levels, it would be capable of all that combat depth, which is what's being advertised, obviously.

[(PSN)ErydisTheLucario]

Dude, really? Ik you think you're being cute, but this is just ridiculous.

Edited August 23 by (PSN)ErydisTheLucario

[CharallChaos]

53 minutes ago, (PSN)ErydisTheLucario said:

I like how structured this post was. And I like the graphs. We didn't have the most civil conversation, but even i cant hate this logic. I vote yes.

I vote no, I dont feel like playing elden ring online.

[Rexis12]

At this point I genuinely want them to not have endgame because I'm just sick of hearing it at this point. 

Like from what I hear all the talk of endgame is just them wanting to either power creep or feature creep the enemies. 

If you want it, play EDA at this point and enjoy the hypothetical end game difficulty that you guys wanted.

[(PSN)ErydisTheLucario]

4 minutes ago, CharallChaos said:

I vote no, I dont feel like playing elden ring online.

That doesnt make any sense seeing as im not asking them to change the game to be an rpg. Having an actual endgame doesn't hurt anything, and you dont have to play it if you dont want. Why doesn't wanting something more have to be a bad thing?

Edited August 23 by (PSN)ErydisTheLucario

[CharallChaos]

2 minutes ago, (PSN)ErydisTheLucario said:

Having an actual endgame doesn't hurt anything, and you dont have to play it if you dont want. 

We have actual endgame, it's called steel path. Warframe is for casual players, it's not meant to be for the hardcore crowd. They add new frames, we come in and check them out for a while and then we leave.

That's just what warframe is.

[(PSN)ErydisTheLucario]

Just now, CharallChaos said:

We have actual endgame, it's called steel path. Warframe is for casual players, it's not meant to be for the hardcore crowd. They add new frames, we come in and check them out for a while and then we leave.

That's just what warframe is.

That's fair, I tend to forget Steel path exists alot of the time...which is weird since I'm MR30 lol. I like your perspective on this too. Very eye opening.

[CharallChaos]

15 minutes ago, Rexis12 said:

At this point I genuinely want them to not have endgame because I'm just sick of hearing it at this point. 

At this point I agree, I want them to actually fix stuff cause y'know. Not really great doing "The New War" and fighting a boss on Teshin only for the boss to yeet himself out of the arena and never come back while killing it is the objective.

Edit: if that seems oddly specific it's cause that's what I was literally just doing.

Edited August 23 by CharallChaos

[4thBro]

21 minutes ago, CharallChaos said:

I vote no, I dont feel like playing elden ring online.

 

18 minutes ago, (PSN)ErydisTheLucario said:

That doesnt make any sense

They haven't posted in this thread yet. Then, a few minutes after I posted in their Yareli thread about how Yareli certainly is not a very good Frame, they came in here and made a contrarian vote against whatever position I stood for.

Hey, maybe it's just a coincidence, but I dunno man.

 

20 minutes ago, Rexis12 said:

At this point I genuinely want them to not have endgame because I'm just sick of hearing it at this point. 

  

On 2024-08-20 at 9:57 AM, 4thBro said:

If DE saw this thread, they wouldn't read it thoroughly, let alone pay attention to the intricacies. All they would see would be, "Oh, the topic seems to be a heated one. Maybe we shouldn't touch it."

 

[CharallChaos]

1 minute ago, 4thBro said:

Hey, maybe it's just a coincidence, but I dunno man.

You really like me huh? Is there something about me playing the game casually and enjoying myself that rustles your jimmies?

[quxier]

36 minutes ago, CharallChaos said:

 

If this game had even a modicum of easyness at higher levels, it would be capable of all that combat depth, which is what's being advertised, obviously.

The problem is not how easy or hard it is. The problem is that the solution to most problems is to bring bigger stick.

[PublikDomain]

You can always run around on Earth if game is to easy.

[4thBro]

3 minutes ago, CharallChaos said:

You really like me huh? Is there something about me playing the game casually and enjoying myself that rustles your jimmies?

Nope. Enjoy yourself. More power to you. (No pun intended.)

 

However, I'm past the point that you're at.

I am requesting something be added to fulfill where I'm at. It does not have to get in your way at all.

But you're the one voting No. You are the one actively voting against the game having something for me.

 

I am not voting No on the game having something for you.

 

You are voting No on the game having something for me.