Warframe is a game held back by how easy it is

[4thBro]

1 minute ago, TeaHands said:

Wargame is frame that's the James Name.

Bond's games the name.

Beat me to it.

[MrInubis]

47 minutes ago, 4thBro said:

No.

There's a fallacy for that, actually. I don't have my notepad on my phone. But it's a fallacy that tries to claim that the amount of support an idea has is reason as to why it's a correct (or incorrect) idea, which is clearly invalid reasoning.

 

Once upon a time not long ago, most people believed the earth was flat.

 

If one person says a crazy thing, it's a crazy thing.

If ten people say the crazy thing, then, quite simply, it's now ten people saying the crazy thing. More people saying it does not change what's being said, and therefore do not change its status.

It doesnt apply to perception of yourself. Its not an idea, its how people see you. You again try to use your google definitons when they dont apply.

[4thBro]

5 minutes ago, kuciol said:

It doesnt apply to perception of yourself. Its not an idea, its how people see you. You again try to use your google definitons when they dont apply.

The fallacy still applies. In fact, now you can add another one: Whatever the fallacy is for trying to state an opinion as fact.

 

How YOU see me is not a factual way that I should be perceived.

And additionally, as stated, adding more people onto the list of those that see me in that way does not increase, nor decrease, its merit.

 

The way that you currently perceive me is largely based on your own psychological insecurities being projected onto certain things that I've said. Not everyone will perceive those things in that way, but also, you are not the only one that will, either.

If you use a fallacy in an argument and I call it out, that's all it is. One person using a fallacy, and another person calling it out.

However, instead of fixing your argument, you chose to declare that I am being arrogant. Calling somebody out for using an invalid argument is not arrogant, however it makes you FEEL a certain way, and that feeling is then projected onto me and what I said.

This is literally psychology. Anyone with some psych background could back me up on that, and even explain it better than I can.

[MrInubis]

1 minute ago, 4thBro said:

The fallacy still applies. In fact, now you can add another one: Whatever the fallacy is for trying to state an opinion as fact.

 

How YOU see me is not a factual way that I should be perceived.

And additionally, as stated, adding more people onto the list of those that see me in that way does not increase, nor decrease, its merit.

 

The way that you currently perceive me is largely based on your own psychological insecurities being projected onto certain things that I've said. Not everyone will perceive those things in that way, but also, you are not the only one that will, either.

If you use a fallacy in an argument and I call it out, that's all it is. One person using a fallacy, and another person calling it out.

However, instead of fixing your argument, you chose to declare that I am being arrogant. Calling somebody out for using an invalid argument is not arrogant, however it makes you FEEL a certain way, and that feeling is then projected onto me and what I said.

This is literally psychology. Anyone with some psych background could back me up on that, and even explain it better than I can.

Well in the end it doesnt matter what google definition you throw in here. If people tell you are a D than you are. I have no intention on fixing anything because its your attitude thats the problem here. You literally use Karen mentality.

[Rakosta_Kai]

Seeing how this thread has progressed, I'm reminded of a Mark Twain quote about arguing with certain kinds of people...

As to the rest, This entire thread remains highly ironic in my opinion.

In order for a player to find themselves with no challenge they have to have progressed their build to the point where they have purposely trivialized all possible challenges.
That's hours upon hours of spent farming in multiple modes to acquire the mods, levels, items, endo, focus, archons, rep, etc needed to achieve that feat. 

That's not to assert that the OP is outright wrong insomuch as the issue they've framed is entirely too broad.

Solo gameplay? Being OP is a player centric problem— There is no cause to complain to others about the color of the walls if you are the one that painted them.
Put simply, Arguing that one shouldn't have to remove mods to find challenge is fairly silly since they had to go to great lengths to fit the mods that are currently removing it.

Co-OP Gameplay? It's a persistent problem and has been since, at least, the first big damage pass 9 or 10 years ago.

It's the cause of many, if not most, of the nerfs to stuff in the game because power imbalances in groups are not fun to play around especially if the player in question is inconsiderate or hyper competitive.
It sucks, but it is what it is and we've had long enough to come to grips with it.

Have a fantastic day Tenno!

 

[4thBro]

18 minutes ago, kuciol said:

Well in the end it doesnt matter what google definition you throw in here. If people tell you are a D than you are. I have no intention on fixing anything because its your attitude thats the problem here. You literally use Karen mentality.

Lol... You're a religious zealot saying "don't throw that science crap at me!"

The fact that you just said, "Yeah, if i say you're a thing, then you're that thing," and then followed it up with, "I don't need to fix anything that I've done," and then call me the Karen...

You really are invincible in your own mind, aren't you?

 

ABSOLUTELY untouchable.

 

 

 

 

20 minutes ago, Rakosta_Kai said:

It sucks, but it is what it is and we've had long enough to come to grips with it.

Well, isn't that the point? If it sucks, we fix it. We should never just "come to grips" with that.

We can try to do both, anyway, is what I should say. We can multitask.

 

Try to be okay with it, but in the meantime, let's fix this stuff, right?

 

23 minutes ago, Rakosta_Kai said:

n order for a player to find themselves with no challenge they have to have progressed their build to the point where they have purposely trivialized all possible challenges.
That's hours upon hours of spent farming in multiple modes to acquire the mods, levels, items, endo, focus, archons, rep, etc needed to achieve that feat

One of the points I make is that this level of power is achieved maybe 30% of the way into reaching what you're even capable of. That number is somewhat pulled out of my ass, but in reality it's probably much lower than 30% anyway.

 

For a game that many people claim IS ABOUT the grind and the farming and collecting of power to achieve that power fantasy... You'd think they might want to validate some sort of necessity to even do so??

[Thorham]

Gaming sure is serious business 🤣

[dwqrf]

il y a 57 minutes, Rakosta_Kai a dit :

Have a fantastic day Tenno!

I'm sorry bro, but how dare you use nirvana fallacy like that ! You are a monster ! Don't you understand that's hurting weak minds to say such horrible things ? Are you actually implying I'm not having a wonderful day ? Isn't that obvious that I'm truly happy ? That's preposterous !

[PrideB4TheFall]

Is it possible for players to take responsibility for their own ambitions? (Realize they did this to themselves?) As in, I have optimized my build to such am extent that I am now bored with anything the game can throw at me. There are plenty (meaning: thousands) games where this has occurred, yet I understand the WF is unique in some ways as it is live service, with plans to continue. A WF account can only grow, rarely will it shrink. (only case is player self-sabotage?) I am comfortable stepping into SP and Netracell, But I have no intention to go to level cap, it just does not interest me. For whom this thread is important, maybe some self-examination might be of value? as of this post (page 34) this thread is getting "Long in the tooth", smacks of vanity, and the need to be right.

Edited August 27 by PrideB4TheFall

[4thBro]

16 minutes ago, PrideB4TheFall said:

Is it possible for players to take responsibility for their own ambitions? (Realize they did this to themselves?) As in, I have optimized my build to such am extent that I am now bored with anything the game can throw at me. There are plenty (meaning: thousands) games where this has occurred, yet I understand the WF is unique in some ways as it is live service, with plans to continue. A WF account can only grow, rarely will it shrink. (only case is player self-sabotage?) I am comfortable stepping into SP and Netracell, But I have no intention to go to level cap, it just does not interest me. For whom this thread is important, maybe some-self examination might be of value? as of this post (page 34) this thread is getting "Long in the tooth." and smacks of vanity, and the need to be right.

I'm sorry, but my Vastilok Mirage that uses Eclipse for the defensive boost is not an optimized build by any means.

But even that is way ahead of this game's hardest content.

 

You guys keep saying we "optimized our fun out of the game, and should reap what we sow."

But that's just as dismissive as it is incorrect.

 

My Nezha that I subsumed Gloom over Divine Spears is not optimized.

But it's way more than enough to take on whatever it needs to.

And that general statement is what we DO want to keep in the game! An endgame does not need to challenge the idea that all things are viable.

But stop saying that we "optimized our way into this problem." It's disingenuous, especially when the same people keep talking about how everything is viable. The two points are contradictory, but both are being used against the endgame position somehow.

This is when fallacies start to get mentioned. Because fallacies are how you get contradictions, and overall how you get weird situations in discussions.

[Rakosta_Kai]

1 hour ago, PrideB4TheFall said:

For whom this thread is important, maybe some self-examination might be of value? as of this post (page 34) this thread is getting "Long in the tooth", smacks of vanity, and the need to be right.

Sadly, this thread is like the Easter Bunny or Santa Claus in that it's an evergreen post that gets trotted out (at least) yearly filled with tons of bickering and scatological arguments. as cause for complaint on something that is almost as old as the game itself and is entirely player oriented.

Here's a list of some of the others:
Stat squish
End game
Damage/Function/Attribute stacking via mods
The unexplainable need for an additional mod slot of various flavors
X,Y,Z featured content is too Hard/Easy/Boring
Content Islands
Raids/Trials
PvP

You will see some flavor of each of these once or twice a year or so. I feel like the OPs could save themselves some time and read the dozens (and dozens.... and dozens...) of pages in those threads devoted to these topics but we all get to re-hash them, at length, instead.

Merely mentioning them is likely enough to have some soul start topics on the matter unfortunately.

 

[4thBro]

23 minutes ago, Rakosta_Kai said:

You will see some flavor of each of these once or twice a year or so. I feel like the OPs could save themselves some time and read the dozens (and dozens.... and dozens...) of pages in those threads devoted to these topics but we all get to re-hash them, at length, instead

It's never a bad thing to start a new thread for the same topic. It shows how much the thing is talked about, and, in this case, desired.

 

As much as an endgame is something "nobody would play," it sure does come up a lot, huh?

[MrInubis]

8 hours ago, 4thBro said:

Lol... You're a religious zealot saying "don't throw that science crap at me!"

The fact that you just said, "Yeah, if i say you're a thing, then you're that thing," and then followed it up with, "I don't need to fix anything that I've done," and then call me the Karen...

You really are invincible in your own mind, aren't you?

 

ABSOLUTELY untouchable.

Ok Karen, move on.

[RichardKam]

7小时前 , PrideB4TheFall 说:

Is it possible for players to take responsibility for their own ambitions? (Realize they did this to themselves?) As in, I have optimized my build to such am extent that I am now bored with anything the game can throw at me. There are plenty (meaning: thousands) games where this has occurred, yet I understand the WF is unique in some ways as it is live service, with plans to continue. A WF account can only grow, rarely will it shrink. (only case is player self-sabotage?) I am comfortable stepping into SP and Netracell, But I have no intention to go to level cap, it just does not interest me. For whom this thread is important, maybe some self-examination might be of value? as of this post (page 34) this thread is getting "Long in the tooth", smacks of vanity, and the need to be right.

To be honest, this game is for fun, and as a GaaS and a sandbox game like Warframe, everyone can find a way to have fun here. And when it comes to entertainment, it is entirely a matter of personal preference and there is no point arguing why you are having fun out of something I don't consider fun at all. People can ask for PvP or Conclave. I mean, sure, go for it, although I won't touch it and I think DE should delete the entire thing just to save everyone time and effort.

But it is another problem when people wanted to change the game globally and fundamentally (ie stat squish, forced co-op) according to their vague standard or uninformed opinion. People will object because that will affect everyone.

[Slayer-.]

This thread still going,   I  in from time to time to read the lols and grab some popcorn.

Fashion Frame is the true ENDGAME   LETS GOOOOO!!! 

[4thBro]

23 minutes ago, Slayer-. said:

This thread still going,   I  in from time to time to read the lols and grab some popcorn.

Fashion Frame is the true ENDGAME   LETS GOOOOO!!! 

Am I the only one that thinks most cosmetics are super clunky?

 

Some are dope, though. I typically find that any really good ones were designed by users.

[PublikDomain]

23 hours ago, kuciol said:

Than nothing changes but its pointless to do.

But everything changes! Because it's only weapons and enemies getting cut. Your gun would deal 100x less to enemies with 100x less health, so nothing about that gameplay changes in any way, but everything that's not a weapon would now effectively be 100x more powerful than they were. Because they stayed the same. Nekros' Soul Punch at 500 damage for example would go from dealing a piddling 1/10th of a Soma bullet to dealing as much as 10! Now instead of Soul Punch being abject garbage you could actually use it to go punch the soul out of your enemies.

23 hours ago, kuciol said:

I dont want nerfs because i like being op.

Numbers don't make you powerful. You can still be powerful after a nerf. You can be exactly as powerful as you were before. If not more powerful because instead of only having a tiny handful of options even worth remembering you'd have double or triple the number of powerful ways to fight. How does having more powerful options make you weaker?

23 hours ago, kuciol said:

Its still like 100h. Stop looking at it from perspective of a person that knows everything about the game. When i did 2nd dream i was mr around 12 and had over 100h in game.

Oh wow a hundred hours. In a game where people regularly play for thousands. Wow a percent or two of the time you play. It's nothing.

[MrInubis]

1 minute ago, PublikDomain said:

But everything changes! Because it's only weapons and enemies getting cut. Your gun would deal 100x less to enemies with 100x less health, so nothing about that gameplay changes in any way, but everything that's not a weapon would now effectively be 100x more powerful than they were. Because they stayed the same. Nekros' Soul Punch at 500 damage for example would go from dealing a piddling 1/10th of a Soma bullet to dealing as much as 10! Now instead of Soul Punch being abject garbage you could actually use it to go punch the soul out of your enemies.

Soul punch has secondary effects. Its not only about dmg. Theme of the frames always has priority. DMG is not everything.

 

3 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Numbers don't make you powerful. You can still be powerful after a nerf. You can be exactly as powerful as you were before. If not more powerful because instead of only having a tiny handful of options even worth remembering you'd have double or triple the number of powerful ways to fight. How does having more powerful options make you weaker?

Again, its not only about dmg. You have caster and weapon platform frames for that. You will not make support frame as powerfull as those, you cant. You will only make one or the other redundant.

 

5 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Oh wow a hundred hours. In a game where people regularly play for thousands. Wow a percent or two of the time you play. It's nothing

"Some" players do, many do not. You want to get them hooked first. What makes people want to play more? Getting more power. Also not only incremental power like in lets say D3, power spikes are also very important. You want to feel this new sword hitting like a truck compared to old one, not 5 more dmg.

[PublikDomain]

22 hours ago, RichardKam said:

I literally just told you the arsenal and game modes are too diverse to pick one single parameters for "balance".

They're not. You've just given up and won't even try to find one.

22 hours ago, RichardKam said:

Power? Define "power"

Power in physics is Work divided by time.

P = W/t

What is "work"? It's a Force multiplied by a displacement.

W = F∆d

Like picking up a box a certain distance. For example, Descartes described Work in those terms:

Quote

Lifting 100 lb one foot twice over is the same as lifting 200 lb one foot, or 100 lb two feet.

And Power then is lifting boxes over time. So if you have more power, you can lift bigger boxes the same distance in the same time. Or you can lift more boxes the same distance in the same time. Or you can lift the same box the same distance in less time. Simple, right?

So what about in games? Well, in some games you are literally moving boxes around over time. Euro Truck Simulator for example is a game all about moving boxes around. Moving those boxes is Work. More generally, in games "Work" is "the completion of goals". Work might be gaining XP, or completing quests, or killing enemies. Power then is doing those things over time. A more powerful player can complete bigger goals in the same amount of time. Or they can complete more goals in the same amount of time. Or they can complete the same goals in less time. It's a nice, generic, neutral definition of "Power" in games.

In terms of combat, the "Work"/goal is defeating enemies. A more powerful player can defeat bigger enemies in the same time. Or they can defeat more enemies in the same time. Or they can defeat the same enemies in less time. Isn't that simple? So a more powerful weapon is a weapon that lets a player do those things. Notice that none of this has anything to do with damage? It's about TTK. A Thermal Sunder Titania is only dealing a couple thousand damage at a time, but she's much more powerful than others in places like Lith Fissures. Low damage, low enemy EHP, low TTK, large range, more power. You could deal infinite damage and still have far less power than her in those places.

There you go, "power" in games described with a simple physics example.

23 hours ago, RichardKam said:

Yeah try bringing Khora to spy and void flood and suddenly she is not as powerful as Loki and Ivara and Titania. Even a fxxking Limbo can do Lua spy better than Khora.

See, that's an example of "power". Loki and Ivara are more powerful at spy vaults because they can do more spy vaults in the same amount of time. And that's fine. Khora is more powerful in other ways. Ideally over a long period of time all of these frames will be equally powerful when averaged out over the various goals you might want to perform. Khora will be a little slower in Spys and a little faster in Exterminates.

23 hours ago, RichardKam said:

The problem is, you cannot even define "power".

I just did :)

23 hours ago, RichardKam said:

It is a vague made up term.

And it's quite concrete.

20 hours ago, dwqrf said:

It works in normal star chart damage wise,

And it doesn't work elsewhere. No amount of "leaning into its perks" will overcome that, because its "perks" are things other weapons already do significantly better. I will say that DE has made this better recently with things like Status Damage mods and recent Arcanes, but that's just another example of DE trying to do the things I've been talking about that you're so staunchly opposed to.

20 hours ago, dwqrf said:

as prime weapons have (used to) have really strong game changer passive over normal variants.

And now they don't, which is good! Primes not being the only weapons with perks anymore is literally a form of stat-squish. Or a feature-squish, idk. And the game is better for it. You can use things that aren't just Primes and still be effective.

20 hours ago, dwqrf said:

So you could instead use any other top end Burst weapon, like a Prime Tiberon, or a Kuva Quartakk, which will do just fine in endgame

But these are not Paracysts. If I want to play the Paracyst, telling me to not play the Paracyst is a non-starter. You can go be boring and only play with the Tiberon Prime or the Kuva Quartakk, but that's bland. Having more options means less bland.

20 hours ago, dwqrf said:

But you would be able to pick it and play it nonetheless.

Having to wait 10 years to get to play your favorite weapon is stupid. Should you have to wait 10 years to play with yours? Or do you just throw your favorite things away and use something else?

[PublikDomain]

27 minutes ago, kuciol said:

Soul punch has secondary effects. Its not only about dmg. Theme of the frames always has priority. DMG is not everything.

Punching the souls out of people to kill them is a "secondary effect"? How is that not part of his theme? And what's that make the primary effect? To punch the souls out of people to kill them only if they're below 25% HP? A feature that was added 7 years later? Or the Harvest mechanic that was added 7 years later that was never part of his original theme?

30 minutes ago, kuciol said:

Again, its not only about dmg.

I know, I just said that.

39 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Numbers don't make you powerful.

And the damage those numbers represent don't make your powerful either. When it comes to killing enemies, what makes you powerful is TTK. And that value is relative and can be achieved with an infinite combination of different damages and healths. Your damage could be nerfed to the single digits and you could still have enemies to fight that make you feel just as powerful as you do today.

56 minutes ago, kuciol said:

You have caster and weapon platform frames for that. You will not make support frame as powerfull as those, you cant. You will only make one or the other redundant.

You don't need to! And ironically that's exactly the predicament DE already finds themselves in today! You can't make support frames when every frame is already a support and a caster and a weapon platform and a tank and a CC all at the same time. If DE were to make a support frame like Trinity today it'd be immediately redundant just like Trinity has become. And that's why DE's giving Trinity a light rework with '99! It's why DE's so hesitant to touch Loki! And if the game's scaling systems weren't so rat#*!%ed, we wouldn't need every frame to be a perfect master-of-all-trades. Which is how the game already was so many years ago before things got so out of hand.

31 minutes ago, kuciol said:

"Some" players do, many do not.

You are free to try and prove that. Though on that topic:

Quote

https://old.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/pcu57f/warframe_surveys_season_finale_results/

My sample size is currently 1,719x larger than yours. Please provide your proof, I love knowing this kind of stuff.

51 minutes ago, kuciol said:

Also not only incremental power like in lets say D3, power spikes are also very important. You want to feel this new sword hitting like a truck compared to old one, not 5 more dmg.

And that's fine! Mods already do most of the heavy lifting here. You'll often see new players asking "why am I suddenly not dealing enough damage" and what's always the first answer? Improve your mods. Also kindly notice that I have presented absolutely no issue with having vertical progression via modding. You can get more powerful and that's fine. It's great! What I'm saying is that it shouldn't come at the cost of variety, and it shouldn't come at the cost of the things you like.

[RichardKam]

43分钟前 , PublikDomain 说:

They're not. You've just given up and won't even try to find one.

Power in physics is Work divided by time.

P = W/t

What is "work"? It's a Force multiplied by a displacement.

W = F∆d

Like picking up a box a certain distance. For example, Descartes described Work in those terms:

And Power then is lifting boxes over time. So if you have more power, you can lift bigger boxes the same distance in the same time. Or you can lift more boxes the same distance in the same time. Or you can lift the same box the same distance in less time. Simple, right?

So what about in games? Well, in some games you are literally moving boxes around over time. Euro Truck Simulator for example is a game all about moving boxes around. Moving those boxes is Work. More generally, in games "Work" is "the completion of goals". Work might be gaining XP, or completing quests, or killing enemies. Power then is doing those things over time. A more powerful player can complete bigger goals in the same amount of time. Or they can complete more goals in the same amount of time. Or they can complete the same goals in less time. It's a nice, generic, neutral definition of "Power" in games.

In terms of combat, the "Work"/goal is defeating enemies. A more powerful player can defeat bigger enemies in the same time. Or they can defeat more enemies in the same time. Or they can defeat the same enemies in less time. Isn't that simple? So a more powerful weapon is a weapon that lets a player do those things. Notice that none of this has anything to do with damage? It's about TTK. A Thermal Sunder Titania is only dealing a couple thousand damage at a time, but she's much more powerful than others in places like Lith Fissures. Low damage, low enemy EHP, low TTK, large range, more power. You could deal infinite damage and still have far less power than her in those places.

There you go, "power" in games described with a simple physics example.

See, that's an example of "power". Loki and Ivara are more powerful at spy vaults because they can do more spy vaults in the same amount of time. And that's fine. Khora is more powerful in other ways. Ideally over a long period of time all of these frames will be equally powerful when averaged out over the various goals you might want to perform. Khora will be a little slower in Spys and a little faster in Exterminates.

I just did :)

And it's quite concrete.

That's why I said you don't understand this game at all. That's why you keep saying soul punch is useless when anyone who understand Nekros will know soul punch let you specifically turn one single high value target into shadow. That's why you conveniently avoid everything not related to damage like CC, invis, movement, buff and debuff because you never engage with these parameters and have no idea how to deal with them, because TTK and combat is the only thing you understand and the only thing you thought this game is all about.

It is pretty obvious the power level in this game has nothing to do with textbook physics. You using it and bending it into your narrative means you have nothing to back up your claim anymore.

Or that you truly believe every frames should be given titania movement, loki invis, Nyx CC, Limbo rift, Rev mesmer skin and Khora pseudo exalt so their power are on the same page +/- 10%. Like Nyx should be 1000x more damaging, Harrow should have at least half of titania movement and can fly, or Atlas should have invisibility option. If that is your ideal game, you can reply "yes". That will save everyone a lot of time.

[PublikDomain]

8 minutes ago, RichardKam said:

That's why you keep saying soul punch is useless when anyone who understand Nekros will know soul punch let you specifically turn one single high value target into shadow.

Yes, Richard, and that feature was added 7 years after Nekros was released because before that Soul Punch only dealt damage and was useless. It was useless for 7 years so DE changed it. So it wouldn't be useless. And it's still useless - for damage. Which it deals.

9 minutes ago, RichardKam said:

Or that you truly believe every frames should be given titania movement, loki invis, Nyx CC, Limbo rift, Rev mesmer skin and Khora pseudo exalt so their power are on the same page +/- 10%.

It's like you can't or won't read or something?

53 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Loki and Ivara are more powerful at spy vaults because they can do more spy vaults in the same amount of time. And that's fine. Khora is more powerful in other ways. Ideally over a long period of time all of these frames will be equally powerful when averaged out over the various goals you might want to perform. Khora will be a little slower in Spys and a little faster in Exterminates.

9 minutes ago, RichardKam said:

You using it and bending it into your narrative means you have nothing to back up your claim anymore.

>quotes the developers

>links to their interviews

>shows official surveys

>explains simple math

>shows ingame examples

>gives simple definitions

What do you mean, lol? You guys have provided literally nothing to back up any of your claims. Just anecdotes, opinions, and outright lies. Meanwhile I've backed up all of what I've said, y'all just pretend I haven't. Like you can't or won't read, or something idk.

[RichardKam]

2分钟前 , PublikDomain 说:

Yes, Richard, and that feature was added 7 years after Nekros was released because before that Soul Punch only dealt damage and was useless. It was useless for 7 years so DE changed it. So it wouldn't be useless. And it's still useless - for damage. Which it deals.

It's like you can't or won't read or something?

>quotes the developers

>links to their interviews

>shows official surveys

>explains simple math

>shows ingame examples

>gives simple definitions

What do you mean, lol? You guys have provided literally nothing to back up any of your claims. Just anecdotes, opinions, and outright lies. Meanwhile I've backed up all of what I've said, y'all just pretend I haven't. Like you can't or won't read, or something idk.

Should Nyx be dealing 1000x more damage, Harrow should have at least half of titania movement and can fly, or Atlas should have invisibility option.

Simple answer yes and no, and everything will follow.

[MrInubis]

22 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Punching the souls out of people to kill them is a "secondary effect"? How is that not part of his theme? And what's that make the primary effect? To punch the souls out of people to kill them only if they're below 25% HP? A feature that was added 7 years later? Or the Harvest mechanic that was added 7 years later that was never part of his original theme

Its still in his necromancer theme. He is not dps frame. Why force that role on him?

 

23 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

And that's fine! Mods already do most of the heavy lifting here. You'll often see new players asking "why am I suddenly not dealing enough damage" and what's always the first answer? Improve your mods. Also kindly notice that I have presented absolutely no issue with having vertical progression via modding. You can get more powerful and that's fine. It's great! What I'm saying is that it shouldn't come at the cost of variety, and it shouldn't come at the cost of the things you like.

Mods provide the "incremental" part while weapon tiers the power spike part. You have now normal weapons for early game, primes (and side grade variants) for midgame, kuva/tenet as early late game and Incarnon as top end. Its important to have such goals. You again completely disregard balance problem. How would you balance the weapon when weapon platform Chroma is vastly superior to full support Trinity? Do you take buffs into account when balancing? What about arcanes? Dont forget about rivens! The weapon must be playable by all frames. That also means you cant make buffs mandatory.

[PublikDomain]

1 minute ago, RichardKam said:

Should Nyx be dealing 1000x more damage, Harrow should have at least half of titania movement and can fly, or Atlas should have invisibility option.

Simple answer yes and no, and everything will follow.

Things that deal damage should deal enough damage to kill.

As for the rest, you're just making things again. The answer is no.

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Though on the topic of Altas having invisibility, well,

Great mod.