Warframe is a game held back by how easy it is

[4thBro]

2 hours ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

If you want to play harder games there are harder games out there friend. In short, the only reason Warframe still exists is because it is what it is, if you don't like it it's simply not your type of game.

Sure, we can devolve into that, if you want.

 

... ... ... But it's disingenuous, and has many holes that can be exploited.

 

I'm pretty sure DE would prefer to hold a wider attention span, rather than... ... intentionally... not do that for no reason at all. It is objectively good for DE if they had stuff in the game that made more people want to stick around. I'm not sure if you're understanding, so I'll quote myself from my other thread. Please read it, and if your first instinct is to have some retort, then please refrain, and instead, just read it over and over until you no longer have the urge to have a retort.

  

On 2024-07-27 at 2:30 PM, 4thBro said:

I've been playing Warframe for many years now. I have 2.5k hours, which is very low considering I started playing... [Googles how to find out...]

October 24, 2017.

And that's a bit of the point. Less than a month ago from today, I finally got my 400 login reward and picked me up a Primed Surefooted. This game has been a major on-and-off thing for me, and even during the On periods, I can't be bothered to even log in every day to push the daily login count... much less, log in every day to actually play it.

That's my personal emphasis on how little there is for me within Warframe. Basically, I just periodically have play-sprees to catch up on the power creep, and then... upon fulfilling that goal, I quit again, because there's nothing TESTING my power. My Frames from several large power creeps ago were already sufficient against level cap enemies - whom, by the way, aren't even readily accessible in the game. There's just... nothing for me to do.

Yes, there are things I CAN do. But I don't enjoy constantly grinding trivial content, for rewards I don't even need.

 

I am somebody that uses every 50% or 75% discount login reward, and makes PLENTY of little five dollar purchases for Forma bundles, or ten dollar purchases for some Riven or another. I've probably spent over a thousand dollars on this game over my entire time playing it, if we're being honest.

 

Now imagine if I was logging in every day since October 24, 2017.

 

If we use rough math and say there's been approximately 2000 days since I started playing, but I only logged in for 400 of them... Any money I've put into this game is, in theory, only 20% of the money I could have put in.

And now multiply this amount by some X number, where X is the amount of people whom are the same as me... and, suddenly, I'd say the inclusion of this game mode is easily worth doing.

 

Edited August 5 by 4thBro

[PublikDomain]

45 minutes ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

Cooperative doesn't mean raid all the time, that's a narrow minded view on cooperative content. You can make cooperative content without turning it into raids

You quoted me about something DE said about raids, though? I figured we were talking about raids. Yes, you can have cooperative content that isn't raids. I never said otherwise.

[MrInubis]

3 hours ago, Kaiga said:

That's just like, your opinion, man.

 

You can also make the endgame rewarding and challenging without you know, doing anything to the early and midgame? 

This also is the same segment of the playerbase who tends to engage the most, be the most knowledgeable, and spend the most money and invest into the game.

Why cater to this segment of the playerbase, you ask. Hmmmmm.

The most money is brought by new players. Veterans already have everything and plat to spend. Its not a matter of opinion but reality. Thats how this game is, you like it or not. Now convince me that its good idea to add something to the game i will never play. You guys also avoid the answer to how tf do you balance this hard content when you have Octavia and Revenant on one end and Banshee and Oberon on the other. 

5 hours ago, 4thBro said:

2) You're also assuming the amount of people that want these types of things. I would wager it's a lot more than you think. People aren't typically satisfied bulldozing easy enemies. If they were, they would play level 5 Earth missions. Seeing as they don't actually do that, this means they understand that there's only meaning to it if the enemies are supposedly strong and can be of any resistance at all.

They dont because there are things to get in other parts of the game, its faster to lvl things in higher lvl missions and enemies die in 1 shot anyway. Try any public omnia fissure run and than tell me how many times you had a team willing to stay more than 20 minutes. Thats the reason Raids died out, nobody wants such thing. I dont assume, i know. Players to this day have problem with Eidolons. You dont? Great, you are part of 0.1%.

[4thBro]

52 minutes ago, kuciol said:

They dont because there are things to get in other parts of the game, its faster to lvl things in higher lvl missions and enemies die in 1 shot anyway. Try any public omnia fissure run and than tell me how many times you had a team willing to stay more than 20 minutes. Thats the reason Raids died out, nobody wants such thing. I dont assume, i know. Players to this day have problem with Eidolons. You dont? Great, you are part of 0.1%.

You are assuming, even still. I'm not pretending I don't see what you're trying to say. And the SPIRIT of what you're trying to say is this, and correct me if I'm misrepresenting you:

"Not enough people want such a thing. It is not profitable for DE to do this."

 

But that is what's incorrect. So, I really wish you read (and reread) my self-quote until you no longer had the urge to have a retort, because, even though I tried to emphasize it a lot, you seemed to still go with that natural instinct.

I'm not saying this simply because you "don't agree with me yet," or whatnot. But I am saying it because that cannot be considered a valid response to my actual example I gave, about how literally-profitable it would be for them to do what my group of players wants.

 

We can BOTH sit here and speculate just how big or small said group of players is. The truth is, NEITHER of us have any clue. You're going to assume it's small because YOU aren't a part of it, and I'M going to assume it's bigger than you think because I AM a part of it.

At the end of the day, we can just pull from my statistics. I have personally spent over a thousand dollars on this game, despite only playing for about 20% of the time that has passed since installing the game. (And I am far from a game hopper. I plant my roots into the soil of a game and get comfy. I have probably played about 10 different games altogether since 2017... or some figure along those lines.)

 

So the math is very simple here -- in the sense that, even though we actually lose track of the math, the point is that we lose track of it well past the point of being worthwhile for DE.

If I've spent $1000, and only played for 20% of the time, we can plug in the existence of a satisfying game mode at LEAST doubling the time I spend playing Warframe (and that's being INCREDIBLY low-balled). So now we're up +1000. Now if we say there's 10 people on Earth that are the same as me in this regard (once again INCREDIBLY low-balling the figure here), we're saying DE could make $10,000 from this.

 

Is that not enough for them to make something happen? Hey, maybe it's not. (Even though two of the variables were absurdly low-balled, and also considering a single intern could program this kind of game mode in a week, or a month tops.)

 

I dunno. This is why it feels like you're just needlessly gatekeeping. You just keep saying things that don't actually apply or make sense.

Just let us have the thing that we want. It's literally crazy that people fight this.

[RichardKam]

1小时前 , 4thBro 说:

Sure, we can devolve into that, if you want.

 

... ... ... But it's disingenuous, and has many holes that can be exploited.

 

I'm pretty sure DE would prefer to hold a wider attention span, rather than... ... intentionally... not do that for no reason at all. It is objectively good for DE if they had stuff in the game that made more people want to stick around. I'm not sure if you're understanding, so I'll quote myself from my other thread. Please read it, and if your first instinct is to have some retort, then please refrain, and instead, just read it over and over until you no longer have the urge to have a retort.

  

 

I don't know why anyone would be interested in your personal journey.

The fact is that Warframe is thriving on the current business model and difficulty approach, and is pretty successful. Seriously, if you think the current landscape of Warframe is fundamentally flawed or "the lack of difficulty is a huge problem" or "this game is being held back by how easy it is" (held back from what? I don't know), believe me there are literally countless games out there dying to be as flawed as Warframe. EA's Anthem tried, and it died in less than a year. The First Descendant not only tried, they almost made carbon copy of Warframe, and it will be considered an accomplishment if it lives to celebrate its second birthday. And you know what? Warframe almost died when you were stuck with stamina bar and the so-called difficult game play back in 2013. Warframe became what it is today after parkour, power fantasy, and Excalibur Prime.

You can't argue with success. Warframe is successful because it is casual. If you want difficulty, that's fine, go play DarkSoul. Even Pocketpair (Palworld) told people to play other games when they got bored with it.

[4thBro]

Just now, RichardKam said:

The fact is that Warframe is thriving on the current business model and difficulty approach, and is pretty successful.

Man do I hate this logic.

 

Yeah - sure - great. Guess they can just keep doing the same formula forever and ever, I guess.

They might lose me as a player, but who cares, right? Minus one, plus two? That's a win, right?

 

I'm trying to say that they can just keep one, and still plus two. They don't need to minus.

But you're hard-stuck on the, "Well it's working, so why touch it?"

 

Guess I'll just uninstall Warframe because I'm so unimportant, lmao?

 

(Is this the mentality you really wanna run with?)

[MrInubis]

5 minutes ago, 4thBro said:

You are assuming, even still. I'm not pretending I don't see what you're trying to say. And the SPIRIT of what you're trying to say is this, and correct me if I'm misrepresenting you:

"Not enough people want such a thing. It is not profitable for DE to do this."

 

But that is what's incorrect. So, I really wish you read (and reread) my self-quote until you no longer had the urge to have a retort, because, even though I tried to emphasize it a lot, you seemed to still go with that natural instinct.

I'm not saying this simply because you "don't agree with me yet," or whatnot. But I am saying it because that cannot be considered a valid response to my actual example I gave, about how literally-profitable it would be for them to do what my group of players wants.

 

We can BOTH sit here and speculate just how big or small said group of players is. The truth is, NEITHER of us have any clue. You're going to assume it's small because YOU aren't a part of it, and I'M going to assume it's bigger than you think because I AM a part of it.

At the end of the day, we can just pull from my statistics. I have personally spent over a thousand dollars on this game, despite only playing for about 20% of the time that has passed since installing the game. (And I am far from a game hopper. I plant my roots into the soil of a game and get comfy. I have probably played about 10 different games altogether since 2017... or some figure along those lines.)

 

So the math is very simple here -- in the sense that, even though we actually lose track of the math, the point is that we lose track of it well past the point of being worthwhile for DE.

If I've spent $1000, and only played for 20% of the time, we can plug in the existence of a satisfying game mode at LEAST doubling the time I spend playing Warframe (and that's being INCREDIBLY low-balled). So now we're up +1000. Now if we say there's 10 people on Earth that are the same as me in this regard (once again INCREDIBLY low-balling the figure here), we're saying DE could make $10,000 from this.

 

Is that not enough for them to make something happen? Hey, maybe it's not. (Even though two of the variables were absurdly low-balled, and also considering a single intern could program this kind of game mode in a week, or a month tops.)

 

I dunno. This is why it feels like you're just needlessly gatekeeping. You just keep saying things that don't actually apply or make sense.

Just let us have the thing that we want. It's literally crazy that people fight this.

You still didnt convince me why should i be thrilled about something i wont play. You didnt make a single compeling or even valid argument beaides repeating "you are wrong". I dont care about you, i dont even know you so your personal feelings dont matter. Its about facts and the facts are that last week we had 3 separate topics about archons being to hard. Raids were removed because nobody played them. Eidolons are deemed to much effort. Those are facts.

[RichardKam]

2分钟前 , 4thBro 说:

Man do I hate this logic.

 

Yeah - sure - great. Guess they can just keep doing the same formula forever and ever, I guess.

They might lose me as a player, but who cares, right? Minus one, plus two? That's a win, right?

 

I'm trying to say that they can just keep one, and still plus two. They don't need to minus.

But you're hard-stuck on the, "Well it's working, so why touch it?"

 

Guess I'll just uninstall Warframe because I'm so unimportant, lmao?

 

(Is this the mentality you really wanna run with?)

In the grand scheme of thing? Yes.

I worked with statistics. Believe me when it comes to samples and models, all of us are just numbers. DE is not going to remember each one of us as a person, and that's fine with me.

Many people uninstalled Warframe or stop playing Warframe. You are not the only one. That's the point. Most of them comeback when there is an update. I usually called it turn over, maybe there is another technical term for it.

Also you are mixing up player numbers and revenue. Player numbers alone never brings you money. In a GaaS, I don't care if there is a billion players online, you can still go bankrupt because none of them is paying you money.

"Difficult contents" you say? Raid? Stuff that make you stay with Warframe? None of them is relevant if you are not spending money. EDA is difficult, but people won't buy plat for that one single weapon just for EDA. Veterans already have R5 energize, all the Prime, all the Rivens they needed, they can do level cap, they are not going to spend money anyway. The trick is to keep players engaged in new contents while giving them incentive to buy plat and then at the same time keeping the entire game close to free to play. Not even EA managed to do this simple and innocent trick. That's why new contents must cater to the majority.

Can't help you if you still cannot understand how this game is being run.

[4thBro]

18 minutes ago, kuciol said:

You still didnt convince me why should i be thrilled about something i wont play.

You don't need to be thrilled about it. Why are you so self-centered??? If you're not interested in it, then it's not about you.

 

  

6 minutes ago, RichardKam said:

Also you are mixing up player numbers and revenue. Player numbers alone never brings you money. In a GaaS, I don't care if there is a billion players online, you can still go bankrupt because none of them is paying you money.

I DO spend money. You also didn't read anything I said???

Edited August 5 by 4thBro

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 1 hora, 4thBro dijo:

Sure, we can devolve into that, if you want.

 

... ... ... But it's disingenuous, and has many holes that can be exploited.

 

I'm pretty sure DE would prefer to hold a wider attention span, rather than... ... intentionally... not do that for no reason at all. It is objectively good for DE if they had stuff in the game that made more people want to stick around. I'm not sure if you're understanding, so I'll quote myself from my other thread. Please read it, and if your first instinct is to have some retort, then please refrain, and instead, just read it over and over until you no longer have the urge to have a retort.

  

 

What you want not gonna happen that its.

Cheers! 

[RichardKam]

3分钟前 , 4thBro 说:

I DO spend money. You also didn't read anything I said???

No, I did not read your personal story.

Unless you are spending enough to support the entire company, or most of the vet are spending enough, otherwise, your spending are irrelevant.

From the current status of the game, it seems to be the case. Casual players are the biggest paying players, so the game gravitates towards them. Simple.

[MrInubis]

3 minutes ago, 4thBro said:

You don't need to be thrilled about it. Why are you so self-centered??? If you're not interested in it, then it's not about you.

 

  

I DO spend money. You also didn't read anything I said???

Im self centered because thats the only person i can speak for. I also do spend money. The point still stands, new player has more things to buy therefor he is more likely to spend more. It is about me, you like it or not im part of comunity and i say i dont want this because i wont be playing it. Why should i support something i dont like?

[Sojufueled]

Part of the problem is the modding system doesn't reward that balanced play you are talking about. If the game was harder you still wouldn't play like that because the way people are playing now is plainly more effective. It's a tough nut to crack.

Most missions' fail condition is essentially slow time-to-kill. I don't think I have failed a mission from loss of lives in at least 6 years. Overguarded eximus further emphasize this since they can't be reliably CC'd. In any mission with a defense target they HAVE to be burned down.

 

Abilities are tough to balance because anything that affects weapons will ultimately be multiplied several factors above anything that deal damage directly. Furthermore, the incredible amount of power strength available multiplies the disparity. There's not really a coefficient on most (any?) abilities. So +400% powerstrength just means 5x the effect (unless it's roar on status procs with a buff that makes more damage instances at which point it's more like 125x as much).

I couldn't begin to imagine what Pablo could do without ticking people off.

[4thBro]

10 minutes ago, RichardKam said:

No, I did not read your personal story.

Unless you are spending enough to support the entire company, or most of the vet are spending enough, otherwise, your spending are irrelevant.

From the current status of the game, it seems to be the case. Casual players are the biggest paying players, so the game gravitates towards them. Simple.

Yooooo, that's crazy that you're totally okay saying this!
"No, I didn't read what you said before I posted my response to it."

 

And what is this "support the entire company" thing you just said??? I'm sorry - are YOU supporting the entire company??? Or is this some kind of stipulation for me alone???

Okay, I see what I'm talking to now. Have a good day, my dude.

 

11 minutes ago, kuciol said:

Im self centered because thats the only person i can speak for. I also do spend money. The point still stands, new player has more things to buy therefor he is more likely to spend more. It is about me, you like it or not im part of comunity and i say i dont want this because i wont be playing it. Why should i support something i dont like?

No, see, you are still being completely self-centered, but your justification doesn't... actually justify it. Man, this is also pretty wild...

 

You're not the ONLY one spending money. You're not the ONLY one that's part of the community. Why should you support it? Because it doesn't get in your way, and it makes other people in that very same community happy.

On the flip side, if YOU suggested something that doesn't get in MY way, but it made YOU happy... I'd support it. And my method of supporting it would be saying, "Yeah, sure, why not. I don't care if it doesn't get added, but I also don't care if it does, so go for it."

In no UNIVERSE would I sit here and confidently say out loud into a crowd of people: "Well, I wouldn't participate, so I think it should absolutely not be added because it does not interest me."

 

Like... what IS that??? Who do you think you even are??? The Supreme Overlord of Earth???

Yo, this is wilddddd...

[sardonicmermaid]

How about making a new account and starting from scratch? Get humbled by how much time and effort you took to be able to nuke a single room with one shot. If you can't, consider a nuzlocke or hardcore. Don't trade with anybody or buy any plat and grind out every single thing you need instead of taking the "easy way" of buying everything (it's an alt so you don't need to fashion frame anyway), don't join a clan and only solo everything, use 3 mods per arsenal slot, don't play with any mods at all, catch up to all the current updates in 3 days at MR 0, play with your most hated warframe without subsuming their skills. Just some ideas. There's a guy who is literally MR30 with ONLY Mag, there are people who know how to make their own fun when they've hit the ceiling. The only person in the way of making Warframe fun for yourself is you.

[RichardKam]

34分钟前 , Sojufueled 说:

Part of the problem is the modding system doesn't reward that balanced play you are talking about. If the game was harder you still wouldn't play like that because the way people are playing now is plainly more effective. It's a tough nut to crack.

Most missions' fail condition is essentially slow time-to-kill. I don't think I have failed a mission from loss of lives in at least 6 years. Overguarded eximus further emphasize this since they can't be reliably CC'd. In any mission with a defense target they HAVE to be burned down.

 

Abilities are tough to balance because anything that affects weapons will ultimately be multiplied several factors above anything that deal damage directly. Furthermore, the incredible amount of power strength available multiplies the disparity. There's not really a coefficient on most (any?) abilities. So +400% powerstrength just means 5x the effect (unless it's roar on status procs with a buff that makes more damage instances at which point it's more like 125x as much).

I couldn't begin to imagine what Pablo could do without ticking people off.

Well, I have been asking this forum repeatedly and no one can answer. The question is simple. Given the diversity of your entire arsenal (warframe 4 abilities, 3 weapons, at least 5 arcanes, companion, operator and others), is it mathematically possible to design a challenge? Even if it can be done solo, how about a 4 member squad?

The answer is, you cannot. It is not possible without arsenal restriction.

A more fundamental question is why a sandbox power fantasy game like Warframe has to be challenging. It sounds like people are asking for sushi in a pizza parlor.

[4thBro]

7 minutes ago, RichardKam said:

Well, I have been asking this forum repeatedly and no one can answer. The question is simple. Given the diversity of your entire arsenal (warframe 4 abilities, 3 weapons, at least 5 arcanes, companion, operator and others), is it mathematically possible to design a challenge? Even if it can be done solo, how about a 4 member squad?

The answer is, you cannot. It is not possible without arsenal restriction.

A more fundamental question is why a sandbox power fantasy game like Warframe has to be challenging. It sounds like people are asking for sushi in a pizza parlor.

No. What we're asking for is a plate to put our pizza on.

We have all this power & capability. But nowhere to use it. Nowhere to stretch our legs. Nowhere to test if our builds actually are good or not.

 

A game mode that we want is completely doable. ANYTHING can be programmed in. Literally nothing is stopping the devs from putting any single thing into the game, in any way we see fit that makes it work.

There is a literal infinite amount of ways to do this.

[MrInubis]

52 minutes ago, 4thBro said:

Yooooo, that's crazy that you're totally okay saying this!
"No, I didn't read what you said before I posted my response to it."

 

And what is this "support the entire company" thing you just said??? I'm sorry - are YOU supporting the entire company??? Or is this some kind of stipulation for me alone???

Okay, I see what I'm talking to now. Have a good day, my dude.

 

No, see, you are still being completely self-centered, but your justification doesn't... actually justify it. Man, this is also pretty wild...

 

You're not the ONLY one spending money. You're not the ONLY one that's part of the community. Why should you support it? Because it doesn't get in your way, and it makes other people in that very same community happy.

On the flip side, if YOU suggested something that doesn't get in MY way, but it made YOU happy... I'd support it. And my method of supporting it would be saying, "Yeah, sure, why not. I don't care if it doesn't get added, but I also don't care if it does, so go for it."

In no UNIVERSE would I sit here and confidently say out loud into a crowd of people: "Well, I wouldn't participate, so I think it should absolutely not be added because it does not interest me."

 

Like... what IS that??? Who do you think you even are??? The Supreme Overlord of Earth???

Yo, this is wilddddd...

You still avoid making 1 compeling argument to support your case. Ive never stated im the only one but as seen in this very topic you dont seem to have many supporters. That should give you an idea how many players want such thing. Sample size is not very large but still.

 

Ive made pretty valid arguments why i think its DoA content and why i think its waste of dev time. You didnt even care to adress how you would balance that thing given how diverse loadout roster there is.

[4thBro]

I've said a good bit about it in my thread about said game mode suggestion.

 

As for "not many supporters," I'm not sure I've even seen a post with over 20 Likes, in any thread. Most people are console, and don't go to forums. And most PC players also don't go to forums.

All in all, most people don't go to forums. Any given thread has like 3-5 people in it. You're really leaning into fallacies right now.

[RichardKam]

1小时前 , 4thBro 说:

No. What we're asking for is a plate to put our pizza on.

We have all this power & capability. But nowhere to use it. Nowhere to stretch our legs. Nowhere to test if our builds actually are good or not.

 

A game mode that we want is completely doable. ANYTHING can be programmed in. Literally nothing is stopping the devs from putting any single thing into the game, in any way we see fit that makes it work.

There is a literal infinite amount of ways to do this.

Yeah yeah yeah, there is a literal infinite amount of ways to do this and yet you failed to give one (1).

Go ahead and try.

[MrInubis]

2 hours ago, 4thBro said:

I've said a good bit about it in my thread about said game mode suggestion.

 

As for "not many supporters," I'm not sure I've even seen a post with over 20 Likes, in any thread. Most people are console, and don't go to forums. And most PC players also don't go to forums.

All in all, most people don't go to forums. Any given thread has like 3-5 people in it. You're really leaning into fallacies right now.

Will you give any solutions to problems pointed out or not? Why DE should waste dev time on something thats by deffinition not for vast majority of players? How do you balance that mode given the diversity of frames and weapons? Why do we need it in power fantasy game that parts of it are already to hard for many players? 

Edited August 5 by kuciol

[Kaiga]

5 hours ago, RichardKam said:

Well, I have been asking this forum repeatedly and no one can answer. The question is simple. Given the diversity of your entire arsenal (warframe 4 abilities, 3 weapons, at least 5 arcanes, companion, operator and others), is it mathematically possible to design a challenge? Even if it can be done solo, how about a 4 member squad?

The answer is, you cannot. It is not possible without arsenal restriction.

You realize that DE has the ability to re-balance items. enemies, and also introduce things that are properly scaled to the player power level? If you'd like a specific example, just look at the 60 eyes boss fight. No arsenal restriction there, yet it requires competent loadout choice and movement/strategy to be beaten and cannot be mindlessly facerolled by M1 spam while standing still- is all we're asking for and is an incredibly low bar.
This is basic game design. People play games, particularly games about killing things, to overcome challenges- otherwise the most popular games on steam would be simulators of the biggest button possible to easily kill the greatest number of things possible, since you seem to think the world revolves around casual easy appeal.
But that's not true, is it?

Whether those challenges are in mechanical skill, loadout choice, gathering effort, or teamwork is up to the developer, but there is a reason why there are things to work towards. Goals. Challenges. Idk why this is such a foreign concept.

Edited August 5 by Kaiga

[MrInubis]

9 minutes ago, Kaiga said:

You realize that DE has the ability to rebalance items. enemies, and also introduce things that are properly scaled to the player power level?
This is basic game design. People play games, particularly games about killing things, to overcome challenges- otherwise the most popular games on steam would be simulators of the biggest button possible to easily kill the greatest number of things possible, since you seem to think the world revolves around casual easy appeal.
But that's not true, is it?

Whether those challenges are in mechanical skill, loadout choice, gathering effort, or teamwork is up to the developer, but there is a reason why there are things to work towards. Goals. Challenges. Idk why this is such a foreign concept.

Thats like saying there is only one way to make music, or only one way to make good movie. Many popular games are not challneging and are not about overcoming them. Warframe is one of such games. Fairly easy horde shooter. Goals to work towards are not the same thing. Statistical gamer this days is 36, has 2 kids and plays 3h 48m a week. Yes the world revolves around casuals, saying otherwise is just pure ignorance.

[RichardKam]

35分钟前 , Kaiga 说:

You realize that DE has the ability to re-balance items. enemies, and also introduce things that are properly scaled to the player power level? If you'd like a specific example, just look at the 60 eyes boss fight. No arsenal restriction there, yet it requires competent loadout choice and movement/strategy to be beaten and cannot be mindlessly facerolled by M1 spam while standing still- is all we're asking for and is an incredibly low bar.
This is basic game design. People play games, particularly games about killing things, to overcome challenges- otherwise the most popular games on steam would be simulators of the biggest button possible to easily kill the greatest number of things possible, since you seem to think the world revolves around casual easy appeal.
But that's not true, is it?

Whether those challenges are in mechanical skill, loadout choice, gathering effort, or teamwork is up to the developer, but there is a reason why there are things to work towards. Goals. Challenges. Idk why this is such a foreign concept.

Except even mildly devoted players won't consider 60 eyes an "endgame challenge" so I don't know what is your input in this discussion.

If that's truly what the vet are asking for (is it though?), then congratulation everyone! We have settled the challenge problem!

[latetier]

On 2024-08-02 at 3:00 PM, Prof-Dante said:

Because this suggestion is a Lazy excuse to create difficulty.

I'm all for making my own scenarios, but it's better if I invite effort and critical thinking rather than "duuuh play with one eye closed".

many gamers in speed run communities make self challenges like playing a video game blindfolded.

if you think it is a lazy excuse to try to create your own challenges and play a video game with "one eye closed" you obviously do not know the meaning of difficulty.

Edited August 5 by latetier