PC The Lotus Eaters: Hotfix 36.1.4

[Binket_]

13 hours ago, --N-- said:

You can see that when I hold E, I only get one attack, even though I'm holding it for a while. When I mash E, I get two attacks, because it queues an extra attack.

Strange, since when I'm in actual combat-- that window is a lot longer.
Yes, I've noticed the same thing in the Simulacrum.
^{Granted, the window is still long enough for me to get that damn second attack regardless.}

It still doesn't change my point that it'd be a 5 minute addition tops.
If they can make a toggle for Semi-Auto? _{(which is still questionable in my eyes, but one thing at a time.)}
Than they can do it for Melee, possibly with less reasons holding them back.

• Fixes potential bugs that may crop up anyway. _{(Liches still get auto-stabbed which is VERY annoying)}
• Legacy movement allows for much greater precision.
• Gives parity with other options.
• Hell, maybe we can even looking into Melees that reward not flailing around.
  • Much like the flailing of an inflatable tubeman found in a second-rate car dealership...
    ... run by a guy named "Robbert McScaem"

Makes sense to me.
Only way I can see it refuted is if there's some very specific code-thing that breaks the game as we know into billions of pieces.
... and even in that case, it hasn't stopped them before. Hell, Auto-Melee already came riddled with bugs on it's own.
^{It's bound to bring more while we're at it.}

 

Besides, it would've been smarter to add a timing system instead of just going feral monkey.
Mostly because people have no reason to improve in this game as is, period.
So any reason to engage with the game besides "big numbers" is moot.

You can barbarically mash your way through 80% or more of the game. Zero brain required.
... but the second you want to actually put in some effort to achieve something neat to look back on?
Warframe has been the only game I've that actively discourages the joy of growth. To a point that it borderline punishes you for it.

God forbid I ask for a system that lets me AT LEAST enjoy something that isn't "4th of July" every 0.3 seconds.
Best DE can offer is Tennokai. Not bad on it's own, but often I find it useless because everything is dead before I have reason to use it.
^{After all, "number go up" is partially tied to moving around like a game of Merry-go-Round moving at x300 speed.}

 

[Nekomian]

4 hours ago, Binket_ said:

It still doesn't change my point that it'd be a 5 minute addition tops.

I don't think you can make those claims without knowing the code base, given they have an entire code cert and review process and develop for multiple platforms.

Also, I'm a bit late but - what N stated is what I've noticed as well - hold melee seems to be more responsive compared to mashing in regards to combos, as it seems to check at the end of the animation if it's held rather than queue button presses up, allowing you to not be stuck in a combo. I've preferred and liked it much more since release, and my fingers are a lot happier not having to spam the "E" key for an hour survival. The old system still exists, and you can use it just by mashing the key like it worked prior to hold-melee implementation.

22 hours ago, Binket_ said:

PRECISION. IT'S PRECISION. IT'S ALWAYS BEEN A PRECISION ISSUE.
I know that means nothing to most players since... well... Revenant exists.
Why do the players who do enjoy actually playing a decent level have to suffer though?

As demonstrated, the hold allows for more precision, but it's just a different system / feel; that said, I'm confused why this would be implemented when it affects less than 1% of the player base? Like, I'm all for adding accessibility and better control of mechanics (I still wish void sling was a "fly" like razorwing or something, so we can actually control where the dash takes us and it's just not a straight line), but this feels like a request for the sake of min-maxing a play style rather than adapting to the systems that already exist, and the majority of casual players would not even engage with or care for something that requires frame-window levels of precision. I'm not saying you can't request a feature or have an opinion on it, but it's also important to have realistic expectations when it comes to things like this that would only affect a small % of the player base as a whole.

[Megazawr]

On 2024-08-29 at 4:48 PM, [DE]Momaw said:

If you don't want to use auto-melee then let go of the key.

Sometimes you get stuck auto-meleeing after you release the melee button. You can make at least some people's life easier if you added the auto-melee toggle in settings.

[--N--]

6 hours ago, Binket_ said:

Strange, since when I'm in actual combat-- that window is a lot longer.
Yes, I've noticed the same thing in the Simulacrum.

It works the exact same way in missions.

6 hours ago, Binket_ said:

It still doesn't change my point that it'd be a 5 minute addition tops.

You are missing the point. By mashing E, you are already not auto meleeing. It doesn't matter if auto melee is enabled or disabled, you are not activating it. That's why a setting isn't needed. You are not using auto melee.

[FaraTenno]

On 2024-08-29 at 10:48 AM, [DE]Momaw said:

More specifically:  If you don't want to use auto-melee then let go of the key.

Old system:  Tap key, get 1 attack, for repeat attacks mash button furiously
New system: Tap key, get 1 attack, for repeat attacks mash button furiously or hold button down

People are acting like we're being stubborn about something, but to be blunt our stance on this issue is one of general confusion: If you prefer mashing the button then we aren't stopping you from doing that. What we've added is convenience for people that want to reduce their finger strain. It isn't clear why this is a problem that NEEDS an option setting since the user is already in control, by their mechanical inputs, whether it get used or not.

Okay, allow me to present you with an equally useless example of how Semi Auto used to work, and how it works now.

Old Semi Auto system: Tap fire, get bullet. Repeatedly tap fire to get more bullets.
New Semi Auto system: Tap fire, get bullet. Repeatedly tap fire or hold button down to get more bullets.

If you don't want to get more bullets, let go of fire. Therefore, why have the toggle at all?
Literally the exact same scenario, yet only one of these things needed a toggle?

There is no argument for why you're ignoring the concept of Auto Melee toggle that makes any sense, SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE we have the semi-auto toggle. 

The problem that I KNOW you are all able to recognize, is that Fire Rate and Melee Speed can go so stupidly high in this game that you may hold a button for a fraction of a second too long and get an additional action you did not want.
Ironically, it would be LESS of an obstruction if guns didn't have an Auto toggle, because all you're being forced to do there is waste one bullet, an action that only takes a fraction of a second.
If you hold down the melee key for 1 frame too long, you can get forced into a much longer melee swing animation that you have to watch, or flip halfway across a room to cancel.


You cannot defend having a toggle for Automatic Semi-Auto while also condemning the idea of a toggle for Automatic Melee.
It is contradictory to your own logic. 

The fact that you are taking such an adamant stance against it is what is upsetting people.

But hey, a dev acknowledged we want this feature and said "no" at the very least!
Still waiting for them to stop ignoring the minority asking for Status Color customization to come back...
 

Quote

I'm confused why this would be implemented when it affects less than 1% of the player base?

Friendly reminder that we have settings for Enemy Highlights, which most people with standard functioning eyesight should not ever have to touch, but it is still there for the minority of people who need help having enemies pop out like they're supposed to.

Automatic Semi-Auto and Automatic Melee were also added to ease joint strain, something that is not an issue for EVERY player or even a majority of players, merely a small group of them. 

There's also a very small percentage of players who are colorblind, yet there are still options that exist to assist them with recognizing colors. Why bother if the majority of players will never touch the feature, right?
It's actually only occurred to me just now that stopping Statuses from inheriting Energy Color could potentially be seen as removing something that helped colorblind players, but I don't know how much it really helped in recognizing statuses for them because I do not suffer from any colorblindness myself.

They've even gone so far as to allow you to toggle every single hold/press variation for every individual ability for each frame! Which, by the way, I am very happy about solely because it makes more sense (to me personally) to hold Thermal Sunder to get Cold damage instead of Heat.
Most players wouldn't care about that, but I did. I'm part of the 1% who used it, and I'm happy it's there!

My point is, that argument falls apart very easily because Accessibility options are literally designed for the minority of players that need them. That is why they are called Accessibility options.

Edited August 30 by FaraTenno
Added an additional response to a different post, rather than just posting an additional reply to the topic.

[PopocraftGD]

On 2024-08-28 at 10:09 PM, [DE]Megan said:

We have some code changes & fixes for Orbiter lighting coming in the fall Koumei & the Five Fates update!

Finally! Can't wait

[Xaero]

On 2024-08-29 at 6:48 PM, [DE]Momaw said:

It isn't clear why this is a problem that NEEDS an option setting since the user is already in control, by their mechanical inputs, whether it get used or not.

Why is there a toggle for semi-auto guns and QTE (which is only seen in quests and Kahl missions)?

Edited August 31 by Xaero

[NuclearDeath]

On 2024-08-29 at 4:48 PM, [DE]Momaw said:

More specifically:  If you don't want to use auto-melee then let go of the key.

Old system:  Tap key, get 1 attack, for repeat attacks mash button furiously
New system: Tap key, get 1 attack, for repeat attacks mash button furiously or hold button down

People are acting like we're being stubborn about something, but to be blunt our stance on this issue is one of general confusion: If you prefer mashing the button then we aren't stopping you from doing that. What we've added is convenience for people that want to reduce their finger strain. It isn't clear why this is a problem that NEEDS an option setting since the user is already in control, by their mechanical inputs, whether it get used or not.

Heya. I'm one of those 1% and would like to get a toggle as well, cuz:

1st: The system behind still bugs out often at times.
2nd: I want a challenge and coordinate my own inputs and a toggle would force me to do so.
3rd: Instead of just holding down the button, I want my right to sore my fingertips.

[Athuis]

Sigh...

Haven't been able to play since Jade Shadows release, because my build is broken. Is it really going to take a year to fix magnetize/blood alter interaction? 

I guess at least I'll have plenty of content to play when it does get fixed. 🥲

[Emil]

Seeing as the hotfix topic is locked, I feel the need to mention it here; A new bug with loadouts has appeared, where it randomly shuffles loadout slots, removes mods for no reason and also just wipes the entire mod config clean. I was on my Dante, confused as to why everything seemed wrong (Equilibrium and Energy Conversion neither working or appearing as a buff), so I had a look in my loadouts, and Slot C had replaced Slot A whilst Slot A was also missing two mods for no reason. I had also made a new Voruna build earlier, exited the game, logged back in a little later, and my entire build was just wiped clean.

[Acedhacker24]

Nice changes from de

Some Sigils clipping on to the front of Sevagoth’s Prime Coat as I just noticed it and thought to let de know about this. Would be nice to see a fix for this.