MR0 on netracell... never judge abook on the cover

[MrInubis]

3 hours ago, Merkranire said:

If I could interject;

I think the idea of players getting better over time is not always a given; if someone’s always overbuilt for the content they’re doing, perpetually offsetting themselves higher (which this game doesn’t stop us from doing) which results in one-shotting everything while being invincible, there’s not much to practice. And the game rarely if ever forces players outside of their comfort zone; outside of something like the loadout Randomisers, you gotta actively combine your builds and missions with an intent to actually get pushed and require playing capability, otherwise it’s not exactly uncommon for players to combine missions and builds in ways that result in as little player involvement as possible, which can work but if they never bother practicing alternative combinations, they’re actually locked into a few ways to play since they won’t know how to deal with the situations that arise if they start exploring

But you still get more comfortable with movement, you learn how to mod (or where to search for builds), you learn layouts, you unlock options. It doesnt matter how narrow your playstyle is at the end, you will still be better at the game. You dont need to be diverse to be good.

 

2 hours ago, Agall said:

Time played =/= an increase in MR. MR doesn't require a high* amount of time played or skill or knowledge. If MR challenges were actually difficult, that would be another story. I wouldn't doubt if someone could get up to MR30 just buying platinum with money and everything possible from the store, then pay someone with platinum to power level them. At no point would that require time played, skill, or knowledge, which would literally define correlation versus causation. 

You seem to refuse to accept that its a correlation, not a causation, and its ironically the entire point behind this thread. Either that, or you're being dishonest in your arguments, which seems more likely at this point.

Show me 1 person that does that. Again you made up scenerio thats removed from reality. Players tend to you know, play the game. I dont refuse, thats like literally my point. Higher MR in overwhelming majority of cases means longer play time. I even gave you examples what i mean by "mr matters to certain degree". The only one dishonest here is you. 

[Karyst]

45 minutes ago, MrInubis said:

But you still get more comfortable with movement, you learn how to mod (or where to search for builds), you learn layouts, you unlock options. It doesnt matter how narrow your playstyle is at the end, you will still be better at the game. You dont need to be diverse to be good.

 

Show me 1 person that does that. Again you made up scenerio thats removed from reality. Players tend to you know, play the game. I dont refuse, thats like literally my point. Higher MR in overwhelming majority of cases means longer play time. I even gave you examples what i mean by "mr matters to certain degree". The only one dishonest here is you. 

There is certainly a delusion trend there

[Agall]

2 hours ago, dwqrf said:

If 90% of the game doesn't matter to you, then obviously, it's easy to 100% the 10% remaining of your choice :D

Reaching and doing EDA at MR0 seems to me much more a challenging feat (even if completely useless) than getting LR4 by buying its way in and getting carried only in ESO for XP.

(Note : I'm not saying you did, but I know some people do).

And again, I think MR is only the surface of what's the game has to offer, compared to knowledge and grind.

If joining Public SO/ESO missions with low ranked gear counts as getting carried, sure. I ended it on getting every Kuva/Tenet weapon to 40, which at least had usable builds at that point, so less applicable to that. Even then, its not like leveling an un-mastered Warframe from 1-30 in SO allows for any meaningful experience of their abilities.

Its not the 'right' way to play it, but its by far the most effective if the goal is just mastery points.

2 hours ago, Karyst said:

Give us some names of those who got carried in ESO

lol

2 hours ago, Merkranire said:

I sat at roughly MR 8 for ages, though that was more because I was like “I’m going to use one set of weapons and one Warframe for everything”. I “mained” Nyx for ages

For me, I've always enjoyed the melee combat in this game the most. I don't think the gunplay is anything special, I have other games and real life for that. Its what made me hop on Excalibur in the first place, with his high base stamina and Super Jump ability.

 

1 hour ago, MrInubis said:

Higher MR in overwhelming majority of cases means longer play time.

I would recommend researching into correlation versus causation, because it's clearly something you don't understand. Yes, there's a correlation between MR, game time, skill, and knowledge which is the argument you're seem to be trying to make. A small minority or even a simple logical argument can disprove causation, which in this case is obvious if you understand the concept and how the game generally works.

[MrInubis]

18 minutes ago, Agall said:

would recommend researching into correlation versus causation, because it's clearly something you don't understand. Yes, there's a correlation between MR, game time, skill, and knowledge which is the argument you're seem to be trying to make. A small minority or even a simple logical argument can disprove causation, which in this case is obvious if you understand the concept and how the game generally works.

You seem to not understand what it really is. My whole argument is correlation, cousation wasnt even mentioned. You either dont understand the terms you are using or what is directly said to you. Go reread whole topic and show me where i even implied that mr gives power.

Edited September 23 by MrInubis

[Agall]

On 2024-09-18 at 8:22 AM, Kersissa said:

Anyways.. I am mr0 with over 1,1 affin. and i Want to share that even mr0 can do the trick.... Solo Netracel in under 10 min. All items are farmable, 

Controversial thread title asside, you're only MR0 because you've not done the rank up challenges. That =/= MR0 to someone who hasn't gotten enough mastery points to get to MR1, which isn't even a fully leveled weapon's worth of mastery points.

Still though, kudos for the commitment to staying MR0. Is ~1.1M mastery the most you can get at MR0 for stuff that MR locked? Did you bypass some of that by buying Prime Access gear? (I think that still works, I had Glaive Prime when it came out because of this). 

[Agall]

1 minute ago, MrInubis said:

You seem to not understand what it really is. My whole argument is correlation, cousation wasnt even mentioned. You either dont understand the terms you are using or what is durectly said to you.

Then what are we even arguing about? We would agree that MR doesn't determine skill level or game knowledge? That simply playing the game doesn't result in an increase in mastery rank?

OP is really just an MR21 player who's committed to the meme of being MR0, which is hilarious and I respect.

[Karyst]

9 minutes ago, Agall said:

Controversial thread title asside, you're only MR0 because you've not done the rank up challenges. That =/= MR0 to someone who hasn't gotten enough mastery points to get to MR1, which isn't even a fully leveled weapon's worth of mastery points.

Still though, kudos for the commitment to staying MR0. Is ~1.1M mastery the most you can get at MR0 for stuff that MR locked? Did you bypass some of that by buying Prime Access gear? (I think that still works, I had Glaive Prime when it came out because of this). 

All he did was that he didn't do the MR test. Judging book by the cover, the self-delusion is gaining new depths.

[Karyst]

15 minutes ago, Agall said:

Controversial thread title asside, you're only MR0 because you've not done the rank up challenges. That =/= MR0 to someone who hasn't gotten enough mastery points to get to MR1, which isn't even a fully leveled weapon's worth of mastery points.

Still though, kudos for the commitment to staying MR0. Is ~1.1M mastery the most you can get at MR0 for stuff that MR locked? Did you bypass some of that by buying Prime Access gear? (I think that still works, I had Glaive Prime when it came out because of this). 

Basically commitment to avoid getting leg cores and load out slots

[dwqrf]

il y a 1 minute, Agall a dit :

If joining Public SO/ESO missions with low ranked gear counts as getting carried, sure. I ended it on getting every Kuva/Tenet weapon to 40, which at least had usable builds at that point, so less applicable to that. Even then, its not like leveling an un-mastered Warframe from 1-30 in SO allows for any meaningful experience of their abilities.

Its not the 'right' way to play it, but its by far the most effective if the goal is just mastery points.

There is no right and wrong way to play the game, to each his own.

But for me, when I help new players finding their ways and getting into the game, I advise them to go play Survival, Defense, Railjack, Bounties of the so many Open or Closed Worlds, or C rot farming of specific missions. Doing that grants also a lot of XP, but gives as well a lot of ressources, mods, a more precise experience of maps and enemies.

I just think SO/ESO spamming is actually more handicapping than helping, if anything. If think avoiding it at all cost makes the general play through more effective overall, as my proposed alternatives are valuable cross farming. XP can be gained everywhere.

In the same way I'd advise people to do a daily Railjack Tempest mission with the double credit bonus of the first mission of the day, instead of doing big sessions of Index.

[MrInubis]

7 minutes ago, Agall said:

Then what are we even arguing about? We would agree that MR doesn't determine skill level or game knowledge? That simply playing the game doesn't result in an increase in mastery rank?

OP is really just an MR21 player who's committed to the meme of being MR0, which is hilarious and I respect

I dont know what YOU are arguing about. What i said is that there is direct correlation between skill and mr. You seem to not be able to grasp such idea. I said how it is, you argue with how in theory it can be. MR30 will be better than MR2 in actual mission. No amount of denying will change that.

[Agall]

18 minutes ago, Karyst said:

All he did was that he didn't do the MR test. Judging book by the cover, the self-delusion is gaining new depths.

13 minutes ago, Karyst said:

Basically commitment to avoid getting leg cores and load out slots

Most people probably wouldn't think to look at the profile of an MR0 player to see they're over 1M mastery points unless they saw them in SP or such. I'd probably look at their profile if I noticed they were MR0 to see what's going on.

If OP wants to be that person who foregoes the QoL improvements that come with MR for the sake of the meme, kudos to them for the dedication.

 

12 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

There is no right and wrong way to play the game, to each his own.

There's usually an intended way something is supposed to be done when its designed by people. Doing it different doesn't make it 'wrong', but devs have an intended 'right' way to do most things in games. I would say staying at MR0 even when you have 1.1M mastery points isn't the 'right' way to play the game, but its not a wrong way either.

12 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

I just think SO/ESO spamming is actually more handicapping than helping, if anything. If think avoiding it at all cost makes the general play through more effective overall, as my proposed alternatives are valuable cross farming. XP can be gained everywhere.

I would still say spamming SO/ESO to fully level+master almost all the equipment in the game isn't the 'right' way to play the game for this very suggestion, still, doesn't mean its a 'wrong' way either.

12 minutes ago, MrInubis said:

I dont know what YOU are arguing about. What i said is that there is direct correlation between skill and mr. You seem to not be able to grasp such idea. I said how it is, you argue with how in theory it can be. MR30 will be better than MR2 in actual mission. No amount of denying will change that.

This was your previous argument, which OP actually disproves. Your argument would be better suited by discussion Mastery Points, not Mastery Rating, since an increase in MR is solely determined by a successful completion of an MR test. That would create a direct causation between someone's ability to successfully complete MR tests and MR (ignoring failure rate).

It's okay to evolve your argument throughout a discussion, but that's not what you've previously argued nor continue to argue.

I fully expect you to not understand this concept with assertions like "MR30 will be better than MR2 in actual mission", unless you don't have a strong grip on the English language, then that would be the source of the argument. 

Ultimatums cannot accurately describe a correlation. The correct description would be "MR30 will almost always be better than MR2 in actual mission due to a strong direct correlation between mastery rank, time in mission, and developed skill."

[vixenpixel]

On 2024-09-18 at 4:42 PM, (PSN)Magician_NG said:

Just to clarify, don't take my previous post as a slight against you. It isn't. My perspective is that of an efficiency snob. I've seen my fair share of mastery rank tenno outplay legendary rank tenno.

Mastery rank means nothing.

It only informs the player base that you Pokemon the game harder than others.

Not really. You are a unique specimen who went extreme hardcore for no other reason than to challenge yourself while locking yourself from the majority of the game. It's ridiculous to expect ppl to not see you as a new player when they cast a glance over your loadout. 

Mastery rank in general informs players of how experienced a player is. You're just a curious extreme exception. That's all.

That said, I love helping newbies out and would never disparage them.

[4thBro]

I still don't know why people LEAVE because an MR0 is in their squad.

 

I don't even CHECK anything about my teammates. I can't imagine those 12 extra steps to come to the point of leaving over someone's MR. If ANYTHING, I could see myself wanting to STAY even more than I'm already going to stay, just to see what happens.

[Merkranire]

6 hours ago, MrInubis said:

But you still get more comfortable with movement, you learn how to mod (or where to search for builds), you learn layouts, you unlock options. It doesnt matter how narrow your playstyle is at the end, you will still be better at the game. You dont need to be diverse to be good.

The stuff you’re describing is a low bar to cross. If your playstyle is narrow, by definition you only learn a narrow way to play. And if you do something like perpetually offset yourself higher than the content you’re doing, you’re not going to learn stuff like what an enemy’s role is or where their weakpoint is, since shooting them in the face and deleting them instantly strips away any need to

Ask me how I know, ask me how many times my ass got handed to me when I started breaking out of the self-defined default, ask me how many hours I was into the game before I learned about things like the MOA’s battery pack weakpoint out of necessity and not just as a fun fact.

Just learning the things that MR supposedly represents as us having learned is not a given just because someone spent a lot of time in one specific build/loadout. It’s not exactly uncommon for players to level and toss a perfectly fine weapon without firing the thing once or learning anything about its innate strengths or weaknesses and how it stands on its own merit and intertwines with various builds and loadouts across different content and level ranges, which means they’re going to struggle with informing another player how to use it and may even just do something like suggest a) a completely different set of gear to what someone wants to use, b) a build that the student is nowhere near able to make for content that doesn’t even need it, or c) some kind of tonedeaf combination of the two.

Out of all the high MR players, it’s certainly a lot easier to respect those who acknowledge that MR isn’t necessarily a given indicator of capability

 

[Merkranire]

4 hours ago, Agall said:

For me, I've always enjoyed the melee combat in this game the most. I don't think the gunplay is anything special, I have other games and real life for that. Its what made me hop on Excalibur in the first place, with his high base stamina and Super Jump ability.

Melee’s good, though I certainly wouldn’t mind a look at some animations (That Archon spear that you stab into the ground and lightning comes out? Not a fan of the windup). I love the locational hits and often choose a stance because of how the swings get affected, and flowing through the fight with distance closers and Lifted can feel pretty dang sleek. I remember when they had the old “Press press, pause, press” kind of combo system, and kind of lament not getting good at it, but also am not sure what I would have gotten out of it if I had.

Love the movement system too and peppering enemies while flying through the air and bouncing around all over the place, keeping my distance because otherwise some shotgunner’s going to blagh me or I’ll get knocked down or any of a range of reasons to play keepaway. I became a big fan of the Lex (first Prime) with its chunky firing sound and crunchy headshot sound indicator, and in general I’m a fan of semi-auto weapons in most games. I played Destiny for a while, and while I found the popping of enemy heads quite satisfying, I often lamented that I couldn’t move like a Warframe and intertwine the gunplay with an excellent movement system

[MrInubis]

12 minutes ago, Merkranire said:

The stuff you’re describing is a low bar to cross. If your playstyle is narrow, by definition you only learn a narrow way to play. And if you do something like perpetually offset yourself higher than the content you’re doing, you’re not going to learn stuff like what an enemy’s role is or where their weakpoint is, since shooting them in the face and deleting them instantly strips away any need to

Ask me how I know, ask me how many times my ass got handed to me when I started breaking out of the self-defined default, ask me how many hours I was into the game before I learned about things like the MOA’s battery pack weakpoint out of necessity and not just as a fun fact.

Just learning the things that MR supposedly represents as us having learned is not a given just because someone spent a lot of time in one specific build/loadout. It’s not exactly uncommon for players to level and toss a perfectly fine weapon without firing the thing once or learning anything about its innate strengths or weaknesses and how it stands on its own merit and intertwines with various builds and loadouts across different content and level ranges, which means they’re going to struggle with informing another player how to use it and may even just do something like suggest a) a completely different set of gear to what someone wants to use, b) a build that the student is nowhere near able to make for content that doesn’t even need it, or c) some kind of tonedeaf combination of the two.

Out of all the high MR players, it’s certainly a lot easier to respect those who acknowledge that MR isn’t necessarily a given indicator of capability

 

It doesnt have to be given to be true for vast majority of players. I can easily give you example of mr30 player that can solo netracels, find my one with mr3 and 30h in the game. Just because some people are just bad doesnt prove that mr is pointless. Nobody expects mr2 to be able to hold his own in higher lvl survivals but mr20 is kinda expected to.

[Merkranire]

35 minutes ago, MrInubis said:

It doesnt have to be given to be true for vast majority of players. I can easily give you example of mr30 player that can solo netracels, find my one with mr3 and 30h in the game. Just because some people are just bad doesnt prove that mr is pointless. Nobody expects mr2 to be able to hold his own in higher lvl survivals but mr20 is kinda expected to.

I don’t think it’s true that a vast majority of players are particularly capable, and that’s fine; the game’s accessible and you can stick to one playstyle for most of it if you want, which I think is one of its strong points that it gives us that option. Yeah they’ll learn some basics; bulletjumping, a bit of level layout (insofar what they learn about the level while they blitz through), you equip the health mod for more health and don’t shoot the guy with the damage type they’re resistant to (though even that’s not a given for some long-term players, but that’s a different story), and that’s stuff that some newbie can learn in a few hours

If anything, compared to other games that tie player progression to a number, I think we should be more open-minded to the idea of a lower MR being so capable. The main thing that gates someone from such high-level content is the builds, but that’s easily rectified, and then they can show that they have played a shooter before and how this game is a shooter.

And I think we need to put a curb on the expectations we have of higher MRs. I get that if you can’t tell how capable someone on the team is, then MR is a kind of fallback, but that just makes me think that people could stand to be a bit more observant and discerning before they decide someone’s not pulling their weight

Edited September 24 by Merkranire
typo

[MrInubis]

2 minutes ago, Merkranire said:

I don’t think it’s true that a vast majority of players are particularly capable, and that’s fine; the game’s accessible and you can stick to one playstyle for most of it if you want, which I think is one of its strong points that it gives us that option. Yeah they’ll learn some basics; bulletjumping, a bit of level layout (insofar what they learn about the level while they blitz through), you equip the health mod for more health and don’t shoot the guy with the damage type they’re resistant to (though even that’s not a given for some long-term players, but that’s a different story), and that’s stuff that some newbie can learn in a few hours

If anything, compared to other games that tie player progression to a number, I think we should be more open-minded to the idea of a lower MR being so capable. The main thing that gates someone is the builds, but that’s easily rectified, and then they can show that they have played a shooter before and how this game is a shooter.

And I think we need to put a curb on the expectations we have of higher MRs. I get that if you can’t tell how capable someone on the team is, then MR is a kind of fallback, but that just makes me think that people could stand to be a bit more observant and discerning before they decide someone’s not pulling their weight

What does it even mean "capable". Warframe promotes raw power over skill. For that power you need tools (frames, weapons, mods, arcanes etc) and with them comes MR. You try to prove me that im wrong when you look at this the wrong way. Its not MR itself that matters, its the things you have done to get it. You had to farm those items, you had to play the game, you must know how to get things done. Its that simple. Skill ceiling in warframe is not very high. If high mr player is bad thats on him. Self imposed limitations are just that. 

[Merkranire]

13 minutes ago, MrInubis said:

What does it even mean "capable". Warframe promotes raw power over skill. For that power you need tools (frames, weapons, mods, arcanes etc) and with them comes MR. You try to prove me that im wrong when you look at this the wrong way. Its not MR itself that matters, its the things you have done to get it. You had to farm those items, you had to play the game, you must know how to get things done. Its that simple. Skill ceiling in warframe is not very high. If high mr player is bad thats on him. Self imposed limitations are just that. 

I’m… a little flabbergasted at how you need to ask what capable means. I was pretty sure I’ve been talking about ability to utilise a range of options in a variety of situations, something that I’m certain (though maybe not so certain anymore?) you can understand is… not a thing when you just stick to the one way to build a loadout.

If I gave you a build and loadout that I could use for a certain bit of content, how certain are you that you wouldn’t just up and die when you try to use it in that content? Because MR isn’t necessarily a reflection of being able to not do that

Edited September 24 by Merkranire

[Merkranire]

16 minutes ago, MrInubis said:

What does it even mean "capable". Warframe promotes raw power over skill. For that power you need tools (frames, weapons, mods, arcanes etc) and with them comes MR. You try to prove me that im wrong when you look at this the wrong way. Its not MR itself that matters, its the things you have done to get it. You had to farm those items, you had to play the game, you must know how to get things done. Its that simple. Skill ceiling in warframe is not very high. If high mr player is bad thats on him. Self imposed limitations are just that. 

I’ll be honest, while reading what you said, I was feeling like you were referring to capability to read the wiki and watch some Youtube videos 

[MrInubis]

3 hours ago, Merkranire said:

I’ll be honest, while reading what you said, I was feeling like you were referring to capability to read the wiki and watch some Youtube videos 

Even that is enough in warframe. Knowing what you need and where to find it is also a skill.

 

3 hours ago, Merkranire said:

I’m… a little flabbergasted at how you need to ask what capable means. I was pretty sure I’ve been talking about ability to utilise a range of options in a variety of situations, something that I’m certain (though maybe not so certain anymore?) you can understand is… not a thing when you just stick to the one way to build a loadout.

If I gave you a build and loadout that I could use for a certain bit of content, how certain are you that you wouldn’t just up and die when you try to use it in that content? Because MR isn’t necessarily a reflection of being able to not do that

No, but thanks to what you got while getting MR you have other options that fit your playstyle. What matters is getting things done. 

[Merkranire]

59 minutes ago, MrInubis said:

Even that is enough in warframe. Knowing what you need and where to find it is also a skill.

I’m not saying there’s not a sort of skill to it, but that’s not what I’m referring to when I say capability. I find it odd, in fact, that you would jump to thinking I’m referring to wiki browsing

1 hour ago, MrInubis said:

No, but thanks to what you got while getting MR you have other options that fit your playstyle. What matters is getting things done. 

That’s… true, yes. MR isn’t necessarily a measure of capability to get things done with what’s been brought to the mission, though. MR could be considered more a measure of what options could be brought, but it’s not a given that someone knows how to use them.

I’m not saying MR couldn’t be used as some sort of metric, but when it comes to whether someone is capable of doing something, MR isn’t all that great of an indicator; hence why I get that OP is talking about not judging a book by its cover

[MrInubis]

36 minutes ago, Merkranire said:

That’s… true, yes. MR isn’t necessarily a measure of capability to get things done with what’s been brought to the mission, though. MR could be considered more a measure of what options could be brought, but it’s not a given that someone knows how to use them.

I’m not saying MR couldn’t be used as some sort of metric, but when it comes to whether someone is capable of doing something, MR isn’t all that great of an indicator; hence why I get that OP is talking about not judging a book by its cover

But you can judge it. There is literally 0 reasons to not increase your MR. You get it by playing the game. High MR means you play for some time already and you should know what you are doing because you have already done everything multiple times. It doesnt matter if you play only 1 frame or all of them, by the time you hit MR30 you will be able to utilize what you want to use. You can theorycraft your scenerio where its not the case but in practice it is. Warframe is pretty easy game, you dont need to be very skilled, loadout will carry most of the time. He joined as MR0, it was clear that he is doing some stupid, pointless challenge. He should expect that others may not be happy to be part of it.

Edited September 24 by MrInubis

[Merkranire]

11 minutes ago, MrInubis said:

But you can judge it. There is literally 0 reasons to not increase your MR. You get it by playing the game. High MR means you play for some time already and you should know what you are doing because you have already done everything multiple times. It doesnt matter if you play only 1 frame or all of them, by the time you hit MR30 you will be able to utilize what you want to use. You can theorycraft your scenerio where its not the case but in practice it is. Warframe is pretty easy game, you dont need to be very skilled, loadout will carry most of the time. He joined as MR0, it was clear that he is doing some stupid, pointless challenge. He should expect that others may not be happy to be part of it.

You don’t need to be skilled if you do something as simple as build for higher than the content you’re doing; of course the game’s going to fall apart and not ask much of the player if they build like they’re going to level cap and then jump into something that’s not level cap, or even just offset themselves by like 40 levels.

You cannot judge someone’s capability to play the game and understand the mechanics when their build, designed for higher-level content and then taken into content not designed with the build in mind, is doing all the lifting, and if they’ve perpetually offset themselves, they’ve perpetually not practiced skill-based gameplay, which means the chances of them floundering when faced with a build that’s more in-line with the content is all but certain.

Staying at 0 is questionable, yes, and you wouldn’t see me doing it personally, but there’s some fundamental rules that this dude is forced to follow because they can’t even utilise things like Riven mods, and thus they’re forced to work within the constraints of a limited selection of tools, and if they know how to play the game they’re a lot less likely to cark it with those tools while some L4 dies and fails when presented with the same tools in the same content because the L4’s been offsetting themselves and never had to do something like aim or move if they’ve just been rotating skills while standing around. You can assume that a high MR has some basic knowledge, but you can’t assume they’re particularly good or know the more nuanced sides of the game that would elevate their gameplay regardless of what build or loadout they use

[Drachnyn]

I will leave every netracell with an mr0 in it.

 

 

 

(it means i forgot to set the game to solo)