Please let us turn off Zenurik's [Inner Might]

[Merkranire]

3 minutes ago, 4thBro said:

Because there's only so much you can do.

 

Even if I am unrealistically CC'ing every single enemy in a 360 degree 50m radius around me at all times - EVEN THEN - there are still tons of Eximuses that spawn in every direction, and they cannot be CC'd, and they WILL shoot at you.

At which point, you can tell me that I'm not evading enough, but that's also fallacious. For one, enemies aren't built with 100% accuracy. Your evasive maneuvers often are moving INTO shots that were SUPPOSED to miss. Additionally, if you're surrounded, evasiveness doesn't take care of everything. And even more additionally, if you stop to cast abilities, you're now stationary and are taking hits. (ULTIMATELY, I can just say this: If it was a reasonable thing to say to somebody "just dodge every shot," then nobody would even NEED shields or health or armor or ANY of it.)

 

Well this is certainly a place in which we differ. The only time a game should inevitably kill you is if that was the point of the game. (Someone help me here, I'm sure there's a lot of games like this.)

But Warframe is not that type of game. Literally; it's not that type of game.

 

To me, this is the evidence that your perspective is the one that's in most need of change.

 

You have Position X on the topic, but you have to go off to the side and give a disclaimer in theoretical parenthesis that you think Shield Gating is "weird" as it goes against your Warframe philosophy. But in the meantime, Shield Gating is still here, so perhaps you need to readjust that philosophy.

(This would be like Christians saying they believe in this & that, but then having to make excuses about a hundred different things just so that their beliefs remain intact. In other words, you need to reach the conclusion AFTER you've gathered the evidence, rather than deciding on the conclusion first, and then trying to make it work despite the evidence against it. You definitely appear to be doing the latter.)

I think Warframe is proving to you that it wants you dead

[4thBro]

11 minutes ago, Gamma745 said:

 

They already did? It's already there in the HUD since day one.

 

Telling you that it's ready is not telling you that it's on cooldown.

 

The difference is that one lets you prepare ahead of time, while the other comes as a surprise. This means that you might never even see it at all, casting something on the frame that you gain the buff!

 

 

... Oh, and also:

 

Quote

They already did?

Edited Wednesday at 12:52 AM by 4thBro

[4thBro]

1 minute ago, Merkranire said:

I think Warframe is proving to you that it wants you dead

 

If that's your only response to all that, then we're done here with that topic.

[Merkranire]

1 minute ago, 4thBro said:

 

If that's your only response to all that, then we're done here with that topic.

Still supporting the toggle option; if your weird somewhat exploitative playstyle that lets you scale into infinity gets preserved, I’m not bothered

[4thBro]

Exploitative? Preserved? They recently buffed it. Not only mechanically, but with an entire mod as well.

 

There's no telling if they foresaw how it would get used. But there is no denying that, in current day, they see it as a legitimate playstyle, and it is very much intended.

 

But I digress...

[Tiltskillet]

30 minutes ago, Merkranire said:

Still supporting the toggle option; if your weird somewhat exploitative playstyle that lets you scale into infinity gets preserved, I’m not bothered

What's weird is to call it exploitative, post-Catalyzing Shields.  Unless you're just using that as a casual synonym for "powerful mechanic the devs have formalized but I still personally dislike."

[Merkranire]

44 minutes ago, 4thBro said:

Exploitative? Preserved? They recently buffed it. Not only mechanically, but with an entire mod as well.

 

There's no telling if they foresaw how it would get used. But there is no denying that, in current day, they see it as a legitimate playstyle, and it is very much intended.

 

But I digress...

 

11 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

What's weird is to call it exploitative, post-Catalyzing Shields.  Unless you're just using that as a casual synonym for "powerful mechanic the devs have formalized but I still personally dislike."

Pretty sure I literally just said I’m not bothered if the playstyle benefits from the toggle.

Does the original incarnation of Shieldgating builds, where players took something that’s meant to make you dead even faster and made themselves invincible beyond any actual tank, seriously not strike you two as being a little odd?

Because I’d have to wonder what you would consider exploitative if a low bar like that doesn’t raise some eyebrows

[4thBro]

7 minutes ago, Merkranire said:

 

Pretty sure I literally just said I’m not bothered if the playstyle benefits from the toggle.

Does the original incarnation of Shieldgating builds, where players took something that’s meant to make you dead even faster and made themselves invincible beyond any actual tank, seriously not strike you two as being a little odd?

Because I’d have to wonder what you would consider exploitative if a low bar like that doesn’t raise some eyebrows

I used to hold your stance, that Shield Gating was lame, and I refused to use it.

 

After seeing first hand how JUST SHORT of impossible actual HP tanking is, I changed my tune. And in doing so, I also learned to appreciate the different ways to build Shield Gaters, too, and the things they still have to keep in mind (in both building and gameplay).

Overall, being able to play the game with different builds is what I enjoy and find fun, and Shield Gating is incredibly flexible. You still have to figure out your Gating and your Energy, but you should still have room for the rest of your build, too.

But with HP tanking? You have to throw everything you got into it, and it STILL might not be enough. That's crazy to me.

Like I said, Shield Gating as your main survival may not have been intended at the start. But I'm guessing the devs eventually decided to play their own game, and they saw the things that I saw. They may not be sure on how to fix HP tanking. Or maybe they see that as the early game dominance, with Shield Gating as the late game dominance, and are fine with this distinction.

But in either case, I do not feel like I am cheesing the game when I decide to actually be able to play the game, no.

[Tiltskillet]

11 minutes ago, Merkranire said:

Does the original incarnation of Shieldgating builds, where players took something that’s meant to make you dead even faster and made themselves invincible beyond any actual tank, seriously not strike you two as being a little odd?

Because I’d have to wonder what you would consider exploitative if a low bar like that doesn’t raise some eyebrows

I did personally consider it exploitative, but not so clearly that I'd that I called players using it exploitative. 

But that has no bearing on shieldgating in Warframe 2024, where there's no illogical dragon key shenanigan and a reasonably balanced facsimile has been designed into the game.

[Merkranire]

20 minutes ago, 4thBro said:

I used to hold your stance, that Shield Gating was lame, and I refused to use it.

 

After seeing first hand how JUST SHORT of impossible actual HP tanking is, I changed my tune. And in doing so, I also learned to appreciate the different ways to build Shield Gaters, too, and the things they still have to keep in mind (in both building and gameplay).

Overall, being able to play the game with different builds is what I enjoy and find fun, and Shield Gating is incredibly flexible. You still have to figure out your Gating and your Energy, but you should still have room for the rest of your build, too.

But with HP tanking? You have to throw everything you got into it, and it STILL might not be enough. That's crazy to me.

Like I said, Shield Gating as your main survival may not have been intended at the start. But I'm guessing the devs eventually decided to play their own game, and they saw the things that I saw. They may not be sure on how to fix HP tanking. Or maybe they see that as the early game dominance, with Shield Gating as the late game dominance, and are fine with this distinction.

But in either case, I do not feel like I am cheesing the game when I decide to actually be able to play the game, no.

You’re jumping to conclusions when you assume. The difference is that when I die without shieldgating, that doesn’t strike me as odd, and when I’m taking a mechanic designed around not being hit by one-shots except in very few cases and turning it into a thing where I can sit there tanking whatever hits, one-shots or not, then I get a little suspicious as to whether it matches the intent of the mechanic’s design, and wouldn’t expect the game to be designed around it

I’m pretty sure the devs are playing the game, the thing I’m questioning in this particular scenario is your expectations; just what are you doing that you think shieldgating builds, which do not have a stopping point, are the intended method?

14 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

I did personally consider it exploitative, but not so clearly that I'd that I called players using it exploitative. 

But that has no bearing on shieldgating in Warframe 2024, where there's no illogical dragon key shenanigan and a reasonably balanced facsimile has been designed into the game.

Man, every time you players bring up balance, I have to wonder just what you’re smoking, because when death is one stray shot away and it’s not even from a sniper’s rifle, I think you’ve gone beyond the designed limits of the game and into the realm of catch-all infinite scaling that’s trying to kill you regardless of what you do or bring

Edited Wednesday at 02:26 AM by Merkranire

[4thBro]

11 minutes ago, Merkranire said:

I’m pretty sure the devs are playing the game

 

12 minutes ago, Merkranire said:

You’re jumping to conclusions when you assume.

 

[Merkranire]

3 minutes ago, 4thBro said:

 

 

You wanna bring up assuming, do you know who I don’t think is playing the game with any eye towards intended game design and understanding of limits?

[Corvid]

10 hours ago, Gamma745 said:

 

They already did? It's already there in the HUD since day one.

That tells you when you have it, it doesn't help at all in telling you when the next charge is going to be available.

[Slayer-.]

5 hours ago, Corvid said:

That tells you when you have it, it doesn't help at all in telling you when the next charge is going to be available.

Exactly, it needs a countdown timer like Arcane Energize has that shows when you can use it again, which will help the ones who care about it.

Edited Wednesday at 03:58 PM by Slayer-.
typo

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

On 2024-09-23 at 8:30 PM, 4thBro said:

I don't NEED it, I WANT it.

 

It's not about a "free cast making it unplayable." It's that a free cast every 60 seconds isn't something I'm keeping track of, but if I cast a spell and assume I'm fine but am not, then I may die and that's annoying. Like if I'm playing Frost and I assume, during this long animation of Avalanche, that I'm now shield gated. But I'm not. So I can easily die here.

... That's annoying.

I would like the annoying thing to not be an annoying thing.

 

 

 

This is very simple, why are we discussing this?

Literally every concept gets resistance on these forums, holy crap, LMAO!

Didn't you spend like a month arguing in another thread about how the game isn't challenging enough and you want more challenging content?

[4thBro]

14 minutes ago, (XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA said:

Didn't you spend like a month arguing in another thread about how the game isn't challenging enough and you want more challenging content?

Yeah, why?

 

Are you confusing it with QOL?

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

3 hours ago, 4thBro said:

Yeah, why?

 

Are you confusing it with QOL?

Its "QOL" that would make us harder to kill in situations regarding shield gate/brief repite/augur mod setups. 

I just think it's funny.