A Plea To De, And The Community

[drMightyPotato]

Over the past several months that iv'e been playing warframe i have noticed a trend. The trend being that every time a even weapon gets released, a weapon that is both rare and exclusive (not exclusive forever tho, but who knows), that weapon is goes trough a S#&$ storm of both: 'its a op weapon, nerf, nerf, ner' and 'this weapon is a beast leave it'.

 

Now i'm all for the exclusiveness of the weapons, heck such rare pieces imo need to be slightly better, but for the first few days, maybe even weeks, the amount of those topics jumps to amazing proportions. 

This nerf that you did to brakk is a perfect example. This nerf brought three types of people to the forums:

1) people that think brakk needed a nerf and are happy about it;

2) people that think brakk is overnerfed but accept it and try to make the best of it

and 3) people who feel cheated for the nerf to a weapon they worked their asses to obtain.

Now, to clear any misunderstanding i belong to the no2 group but i can find my self leaning to all three groups.

My reasons?

Well first off the brakk was quite a powerful tool to use. More so to the point that if you had it you didn't need ANY of the other weapons in the game. Unless you wanted to snipe things then no, it didn't work wonders, but thats not the point.

I, myself was expecting a nerf in the form of damage dropof and a sliiiiiiiiight nerf to the damage, like 130 or 140.

What i got was a nerf to the range and a variation in the damage... Sure its still 150 damage, but giveing it a majority in the impact, no i didn't like it. But then when i took a look at it... 500 impact, 500 puncture, 400 slash (rough numbers)? 400 ice, 1400 corrosive? (fully modded brakk, btw)

Cool, its still good, just need a bet of modification to balance it out for slash damage.... blast should do nicely, and im set.

But i also feel cheated, cheated that i cant keep the exclusiveness of a powerful weapon that i earned. Sure only the people that won in that event got it... sure its still exclusive. But, but... what grinds my gears is the S#&$storm pouring mostly from people that don't have it. I understand your reasons boys and gals... You don't have brakk, it IS infact a powerful gun. But screaming and yelling until DE gives in and caves down like this!? 

Yes i feel cheated, if the nerf to the brakk was supposed to come, let DE handle it. Post a propper feedback instead of 'i don' has it, nerf it plox'. Gimme reasons! Useful reasons!

I can count about two posts that properly explained why brakk needed a nerf, and i agreed to them. 

-sigh-

DE here is my plea, this is the point of it all... next time you want to release a event weapon, both exclusive and rare, probably powerfull... TEST IT! I cant stress it enough test that weapon, if it still performs as you want it release it and stand by your decision! Don't cave in to the point where the damn thing is nerfed in one fell swoop. It doesn't work like that. Give people time to prepare. Or post on forums that you intend to keep the weapon as it is.

But please, please... don't make us work hard for a weapon that has to go trough a god damn grinding machine, also known as the community, if you plan to simply nerf it when the cries become too loud.

 

TL;DR Brakk needed a nerf, but it was supposed to be announced properly, considering it was a 100 wins exclusive, and eased into it (for the info i did 100 missions for corpus as i wanted detron, but switched and did 100 for grineer as well cause i wanted brakk as well). Furthermore if the community has something to say for pro/cons of a weapon they need to do in a polite and understanding manner and not cry to the point where each of us feels sick and just want to put a bullet in the horses head to ease its suffering.

Thank you

[Mr.Intrepid]

You are right. If we have to grind for something it shouldn't get a nerf the next month.

[TunaMayo]

You talk as if the weapon is almost unusable now, rather being used as the pistol-shotty it is meant to be.

 

The Brakk was introduced before damage 2.0, obviously DE planned it to be a competitor to the Acrid by giving it a high base damage. Due to 2.0, the acrid indirectly received a nerf and the Brakk remained the top-tier secondary.

 

Now, I'm all for exclusives being slightly better than other weapons. I'm also all for their being tiers of weapons (and I would highly appreciate it if DE explicitly established these tiers).

 

But, the Brakk was a joke. Everyone knew it was OP and anyone who wasn't expecting a nerf was being naive. The thing put out double the DPS of any other secondary, was evenly split across all three physical damage types, had no fall-off, tight spread, fast reload, high status chance and reasonable crit chance bearing in mind it puts out a number of pellets per shot. Oh, and it's exclusive.

 

Right now I'd say it's in an alright place, it's powerful, but you have to be up close to use it. Like the embolist. It still puts out much larger DPS than any other secondary, but it has a range limit. This is what we call balance.

 

Complaining that it is now slightly leaning towards impact damage is ludicrous, the slash and puncture damage per shot are still the same as or larger than most other secondaries meaning you can still be effective against all three factions.

[MagpieOAO]

People complain because things are OP and hard to grind for when they get released, it's called marketing. They release a cool, powerful new weapon hoping people spend plat to buy it and then nerf it into line a few weeks later once the honeymoon is over. When 90% of people who have the weapon are using it (Cough, gallentine, cough) it's probably a good indicator that the weapon is OP.

 

Weapons being OP is a problem (just like some being UP) because it makes other options less viable, which makes the game less interesting when people pigeonhole themselves for maximum efficiency.

Edited December 7, 2013 by Kriegson

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

Brakk didn't necessarily need a nerf.

 

Brakk could have had some competition too.  There's usually more than one way to solve any problem.

 

They could have buffed another weapon like the Bronco Prime, which is still something which takes a bit of effort to get, yet not event exclusive to appease the people who missed out on the event or didn't have enough time to play.

 

Rewards for events from DE are generous gestures and we love this game because the developers are very good to us.  However, when you have a divided community it forces the developers to make difficult choices.  Choices that may satisfy one group temporarily and upset another group.

 

In my opinion it would have been better for EVERYONE if the patch notes simply read "buffed the Bronco Prime to do different yet comparable damage to the Brakk cannon" instead of nerfing the Brakk.

 

The Brakk crowd would still be happy, and the Brakk lacking crowd will be satisfied in that they could not obtain a weapon in game that's comparable.

 

While I usually hate nerf-herders that cry for nerfs "just because" this situation with the Brakk and the people who couldn't obtain it, I fully understand and sympathize with.  I grinded over 400 of these missions for my clan, and I'm happy with the reward.  I am upset that my reward was affected, but I do understand that things in this game should be fair.  Whole groups of people shouldn't be alienated, because they missed out on an opportunity to play.

 

For the hardcore here that say too bad to them.  Realize that one day you're going to have something come up in real life and you're going to miss out.  Now if you do and everyone else gets some amazing sword/weapon that destroys everything of which nothing can compare, you'll understand.

 

The problem here lies with the resolution.  Everyone can be happy in this case.  They simply needed to buff a couple of other weapons.  Our reward weapon wouldn't have been hurt and players that missed out wouldn't feel neglected.

 

Simple.

[General_Krull]

Brakk needed a nerf true. But DE went way overboard with it. It's an event exclusive weapon as such it's expected to be high tier, now it's pretty much worthless unless you're right in enemies face. 10 meters in game is not the same as 10 meters in real life.

 

 

That is 10 meters in game past the pillar in the middle the damage gets really low. How is that okay? How does it make sense? Why didn't they give broncos damage fall off?

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

-snip-

Why didn't they give broncos damage fall off?

 

Don't do it bro...  Lol.  Don't point them towards the Broncos.  They're already weaker.

 

What I'm calling for is that other hand cannons be buffed to be comparable, and for the Brakk to be brought back to the way it was before.

 

I agree with you that 10 meters is really too short.  It's not like people were sniping with the Brakk.

[General_Krull]

Don't do it bro...  Lol.  Don't point them towards the Broncos.  They're already weaker.

 

What I'm calling for is that other hand cannons be buffed to be comparable, and for the Brakk to be brought back to the way it was before.

 

I agree with you that 10 meters is really too short.  It's not like people were sniping with the Brakk.

I'm not saying they should nerf broncos, I'm saying they need to stay consistent. Either give all handcannons damage fall off or none of them.

[Althix]

where is

4) People who do not use Brakk because they know a better option?

[Hixlysss]

I'm not saying they should nerf broncos, I'm saying they need to stay consistent. Either give all handcannons damage fall off or none of them.

Uh...broncos are single hand shotguns, not Handcannons. The codex labels the Brakk as a handcannon, teh Bronco's and Bronco Prime as "small scale shotguns". While in use they are practically the same thing, their labels say otherwise thus justifying the difference in damage dropoff.

 

But to be honest, the normal Bronco's have damage dropoff, the thing doesn't work past 5 meters for me sometimes. Haven't tried out the Bronco Prime, i hear it has no damage dropoff, if that is the case...who knows what will happen.

 

As for the OP's comment, I'm really wanna see were DE said the Brakk was exclusive to this event, it just really doesn't sound like an exclusive weapon, more like a early access weapon. Machete Wraith is exclusive, Brakk is not but a Brakk Wraith would be. But that is just my opinion on that matter.

 

I used other weapons because...using the brakk made me feel cheap. Sure it's a nice thing to have, if we were going up against T3 defense or something I'd bring it cause it drops stuff. But honestly when I did use it, I never used it beyond that 10 meter range anyway, so it's barely a nerf for me, it hasn't lost any damage(which should be dropped down to 140 so it's in par with the bronco prime IMO.) so I don't know why people are in a uproar over it. Ooo, the brakk now requires you to actually run up close to enemies to shoot them, much like the Bronco.

 

Anyway, was I the only one who was confused when they said "handcannon" and we get a single hand shotgun? I was expecting, I donno, a pocket rocket launcher or a giant magnum, not a pocket shotgun.

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

I'm not saying they should nerf broncos, I'm saying they need to stay consistent. Either give all handcannons damage fall off or none of them.

 

Yes consistency is very important.  I'm hoping that DE stays true to their words from way back about nerfing/buffing.  That they'll buff others to the same standard, rather than nerf.

[RoboDoge]

There is no point in pleading the community. We are all just indifferent to everchanging things around us, if they arent directly affecting us.

 

 

You got many strong points in your wall of text. But, it all comes down to Brakk nerf. You could made this thread a lot shorter is you just wrote "Why did you nerf Brakk?"

 

 

Yes i am aslo scared with tactics that DE is using. Whats the point in event grinding if rewards are either be crap or be made crap after some time. Event weapons should be OP, we grinded them like crazy. I dont care about people that complain they are OP, dont use them then. And people that dont have them also should be more quiet, you dont have them for reason. Either you joined game after the even, or you didnt grind them.

 

 

Problem for me isnt Brakk nerfing, it is what that nerfing represents.

[drMightyPotato]

-snip-

I never said the weapon is useless, on the contrary, its still as powerful as it was. Its the constant crying of the community (or a part of community if you will) that forced DE to react in a way they did without considering about the other side of the coin.

And now with the nerf, thanks again to the community (again a part of it), most people wont even try to rework their build (forma is a possible problem) and will flat out sell brakk.

Sure the nerf was required, but this while fiasco was unecesary.

-snip-

Nerfing a gun outright without even considering the people that worked for it, is not good bussiness. Brakk was a exclusive weapon that required quite a hefty ammount of missions and a victory to aquire. Sure the nerf was needed but not in a way DE delivered. 

There are probably several people, like me, that didnt use it unless some high level mob needed to die... same goes with galatine. 

Bringing brakk to a low level appolodrus mission and screaming 'its op nerf it' does not mean the weapon is op. 

-snip-

Thats 10 meters!? What are people whining about?

[Lanadra]

Yes consistency is very important.  I'm hoping that DE stays true to their words from way back about nerfing/buffing.  That they'll buff others to the same standard, rather than nerf.

 

Buffing multiple weapons is more work then nerfing one, don't count on it.

 

Ultimate way of trolling your community, take hard to get items, make them intentionally OP, only to nerf them into the ground barely 2 months later.

Edited December 7, 2013 by CenturyNitro

[Vandoore]

MEH, I don't really care

nerfs and buffs are inevitable. In terms of the brakk it was easier to bring it down a level then try and buff every other gun, and honestly it was an op gun, it was the god gun, name one other gun that could perform as well as the brakk? Now you need to think about what gun to bring to the fight and not just say, I'll use the Brakk. 

 

Or alternatively, get a little friendly with the peeps, say high, shake their hand and give them a little Brakk op goodness. After all the damage is still there.

[drMightyPotato]

where is

4) People who do not use Brakk because they know a better option?

Sry forgout about that T_T (btw im totaly in that group XD i love my sidearms :))

[kubbi]

God forbid if a certain weapon is considered OP and a lot of people use it.

 

Edited December 7, 2013 by kubbi

[LordofTibera]

You are right. If we have to grind for something it shouldn't get a nerf the next month.

 

-However, I feel the need to say this: event weapon or not, no aspect of a game should be exempt from revision. I feel this comment you made is a bit narrowly-focused.

 

-The games industry is all about accomplishing things on time given a schedule (i.e. you're never completely finished with a product)--DE has an active community to help them with extended testing after their grace period is over. Just because the Brakk was acquired in a special way doesn't mean that the devs got it perfect the first time. If this weapon was truly as good as people say it was (I couldn't make it to 100 missions during Gradivus--too busy) then that removes player choice and you are in fact punished for choosing a sidearm that is different. After all, why use, say, the Sicarus when the Brakk outclasses it? Other than some stat changes and a different firing type, Brakk beats it cold. That eliminates my choice at a meta level.

 

-See, I have a philosophy with games that started back in TF2. I was amazed that when the first gen alt weapons came out that Valve didn't  make them "better," they instead made them play different. The Pyro class' Flamethrower was a good front line defense weapon, but when the alternate came out, called the "Backburner" it provided a different playstyle which expanded upon the Pyro's strengths: ambushing the enemy due to short range. The Backburner dealt far less damage if you attacked an enemy from the front, but if you snuck up behind someone and flamed them in the BACK, you dealt huge critical damage! It changed the aspect of a Pyro.

 

-This same concept can apply to Warframe (really, any game). Another example is the MMO Guild Wars 2. Weapons have the same damage output at the same level (so a level 80 maxed sword has the same base stats as a level 80 pistol), but what makes the weapons function uniquely are the following:

1. Each weapon can give bonuses to two different stats (i.e. Power and Defense versus, say, Healing and Condition Removal)

2. Your chosen class determines your weapon choice

3. Weapons have different animations and base abilities unique to them, which in turn are also based on your class. (i.e. a Sword used by a Guardian has different powers assigned to it than that of a Warrior)

4. Your character's actual build given a stat tree.

 

-What this translates into is that even though you can have two of the same race, class, and weapon equipped, there are still many differences that completely alter the playstyle. My point is basically that nerf or not, any weapon in the game as it stands is just stats, and frankly there ARE "best" and "worst" weapons right now, which I disagree with. That means that it comes down to your mod choices and what your favorite weapon is. If you like the Brakk because it's fun and you worked to get it, then cool. No one can deny you that. If you liked it because it was the only weapon you'll ever need due to the stats being really good, then I guess you'll have to be disappointed (also, to be honest, let's look at the changes they made. It's not ruined. just acts like a handheld shotgun should).

 

-Honestly, I didn't mean to go on this long, but I hope this sheds some light on why any part of a game deserves to be assessed and critiqued.

[drMightyPotato]

-snip-

I agree with you totaly. However, one thing is to change the weapon stats to a acceptable level (brakk is still strong as it was, you cant snipe with it, but it wasnt even ment for that) and an entirely different thing is to instantly change a weapon cause of an outcry of people(more like constant whining).

Yes the weapon was OP (the damage falloff fixed it, somewhat) but if it needed fixing giving proper feedback and giving a acctualy notification from DE would make for a totaly different scenario. If DE makes a weapon that makes the community churn like a volcano and then 'fixing' it without any warning, than we might have a problem.

Why would i do, or for that matter, why would anyone do a insane event for a rare and powerful item if we have to get slapped like this?

Just for the info, i have brakk, i used it, but only for high level missions (curent lvl 50+). I still prefer my other sidearms more as they are more appealing (aklex is a good example, and so is magnus... i love both of them ^_^)

Edited December 7, 2013 by Alinna

[lautalocos]

People complain because things are OP and hard to grind for when they get released, it's called marketing. They release a cool, powerful new weapon hoping people spend plat to buy it and then nerf it into line a few weeks later once the honeymoon is over. When 90% of people who have the weapon are using it (Cough, gallentine, cough) it's probably a good indicator that the weapon is OP.

 

Weapons being OP is a problem (just like some being UP) because it makes other options less viable, which makes the game less interesting when people pigeonhole themselves for maximum efficiency.

they never nerfed the galalantine, and the brakk is grind only, no way of getting it paying platinum. you argument holds no ground

[bear38122]

To me it is the point not if it is usable now.

Just wait folks

Nova

Galatine and who knows what else.

Will get nerfed I'm sure of it.

To a degree I think they do it and then hope we buy the new toys they release or are getting ready to release.

[matto]

It's going to be the same thing again and again.

 

Event (or Update) -> new OP weapon -> people get crazy for it : if affordable with plats, spend plats. If event, log during the whole event -> get income -> nerf the OP weapon -> make event or update -> release new OP weapon etc.

[Nickeltoe]

God forbid if a certain weapon is considered OP and a lot of people use it.

 

 

lol, love it.  Folks gotta tell other folks what to use though, control freaks out there everywhere.  The generation of people raised by their moms, gotta control it all.

[Pendragon1951]

There are so many good points made here that I really hope DE takes a read through. I must admit I am in the "why did you nerf my event gift that I grinded for" group. The first thing I would like to point out is what the Brakk actually is, by DE's own definition during update 10.5.0 if you read the original text it describes the Brakk as "The Semi-Automatic Brakk Hand-Cannon". Now the important thing here is it is HAND-CANNON, not a shotgun, cannons do not have fall-off nor spread. So in essence they nerfed a weapon abilities that it should not have in the first place. Do I agree it should have been taken down a peg or two, grudgingly I would have to agree, but I think similar in the way they did the Soma with it's crit, going from 35%to 25% then to something reasonable like 30%. I really enjoyed using the Brakk because it was the first secondary, IMHO, that didn't suck at range. I like having distance between me and the enemy, that's why I love my Soma, but there are times when rifle ammo does dry up and for me that's when the Brakk really shined, because I could still kill at distance with a support weapon. I also agree with the OP that test the damn weapon before you release it to the community and maybe just maybe s#$% storms like this would not happen, look what happen when they did this to Rhino Skin, at least then they realized their mistake. Once again remember this is suppose to be a Hand-Cannon, by DE's own definition, it's suppose to be able to kill at distance. Like I said it probably should have been taken down a few pegs like Soma's crit rate but not as drastic as they did.

[Destro6677]

You talk as if the weapon is almost unusable now, rather being used as the pistol-shotty it is meant to be.

 

The Brakk was introduced before damage 2.0, obviously DE planned it to be a competitor to the Acrid by giving it a high base damage. Due to 2.0, the acrid indirectly received a nerf and the Brakk remained the top-tier secondary.

 

Now, I'm all for exclusives being slightly better than other weapons. I'm also all for their being tiers of weapons (and I would highly appreciate it if DE explicitly established these tiers).

 

But, the Brakk was a joke. Everyone knew it was OP and anyone who wasn't expecting a nerf was being naive. The thing put out double the DPS of any other secondary, was evenly split across all three physical damage types, had no fall-off, tight spread, fast reload, high status chance and reasonable crit chance bearing in mind it puts out a number of pellets per shot. Oh, and it's exclusive.

 

Right now I'd say it's in an alright place, it's powerful, but you have to be up close to use it. Like the embolist. It still puts out much larger DPS than any other secondary, but it has a range limit. This is what we call balance.

 

Complaining that it is now slightly leaning towards impact damage is ludicrous, the slash and puncture damage per shot are still the same as or larger than most other secondaries meaning you can still be effective against all three factions.

This.

 

People complain because things are OP and hard to grind for when they get released, it's called marketing. They release a cool, powerful new weapon hoping people spend plat to buy it and then nerf it into line a few weeks later once the honeymoon is over. When 90% of people who have the weapon are using it (Cough, gallentine, cough) it's probably a good indicator that the weapon is OP.

 

Weapons being OP is a problem (just like some being UP) because it makes other options less viable, which makes the game less interesting when people pigeonhole themselves for maximum efficiency.

Well excuse me for actually being efficient in melee against high level Infested. Maybe if they buffed Hate or Scindo, I'd use them too.