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So Tomorrow 11.6, First Update Of The Year? [Or Do We Wait 1 More Week?]

Phoenix86

By Phoenix86,
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Takai

Takai

Posted
Posted

I’d love it, thing is it won’t work

(cut)

TLDR: Everything about warframe prevents DMC style combos from happening.

 

Warframe would not  necessarily  have to overhaul code their AI for something similar to DMC swordplay to occur. They would have to overhaul many animations and their  accompanying  functions, which I  believe  they are doing to a limited level with Sword 2.0. Another challenge would be have the similar dramatic camera that would be as dynamic as DMC's during combat (Im thinking a series of conditional loops). 

 

I dont want to say that a perfect balance of shooting and swordplay (that is fun) is not possible for many reasons, the fluidity of animations tied to intuitive controls would create that mixed balance. The more developers experiment with it; the more likely a team will eventually  achieve  this. 

 

What I would expect and  appreciate  from sword 2.0 in WF is simply: 

- You equip your sword, like you equip a weapon.

- Block is right (or mapped to mode) click

- Attack is left click.

- Possible new animations that chain existing charge attacks and new charge attack animations, that provide different damage functions.

 

What they can do with this system described that I would not expect in the first iteration:

- New movement functions for this sword equip mode: ie:  persistent  sprint with different animation (possibly speed/stamina tradeoff), to close range.

- A more dynamic (range or height) jump while in sword equip mode:

- Alterations to the  gymnastics  animations the frame perform in sword equip mode.

- Hopefully the removable of zorin chopper animations, and similar functions; replacing them with something more  practicable  

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NevanChambers

NevanChambers

Posted
Posted (edited)

Warframe would not necessarily have to overhaul code their AI for something similar to DMC swordplay to occur. They would have to overhaul many animations and their accompanying functions, which I believe they are doing to a limited level with Sword 2.0. Another challenge would be have the similar dramatic camera that would be as dynamic as DMC's during combat (Im thinking a series of conditional loops).

I dont want to say that a perfect balance of shooting and swordplay (that is fun) is not possible for many reasons, the fluidity of animations tied to intuitive controls would create that mixed balance. The more developers experiment with it; the more likely a team will eventually achieve this.

What I would expect and appreciate from sword 2.0 in WF is simply:

- You equip your sword, like you equip a weapon.

- Block is right (or mapped to mode) click

- Attack is left click.

- Possible new animations that chain existing charge attacks and new charge attack animations, that provide different damage functions.

What they can do with this system described that I would not expect in the first iteration:

- New movement functions for this sword equip mode: ie: persistent sprint with different animation (possibly speed/stamina tradeoff), to close range.

- A more dynamic (range or height) jump while in sword equip mode:

- Alterations to the gymnastics animations the frame perform in sword equip mode.

- Hopefully the removable of zorin chopper animations, and similar functions; replacing them with something more practicable

I think you have a totally realistic expectation for sword 2.0 but I also don't think you are expecting or asking for DMC. I do believe there is a lot that can be done to improve Melee but asking to turn a third person shooter into a flashy action slasher is just not realistic. My biggest concern is the best way to do Melee is lock on and the worst way to do shooting is lock on so I'm not sure how those would interplay. Though having an equipable sword would provide an avenue to that end where they wouldn't interfere with one another.

Still that doesn't account for scale. A big fight in something like DMC is 15 or so enemies at a time not the hordes we encounter regularly especially with a situation like 4 napalms bombarding you while your trying to aerial rave a lancer. I think dynasty warriors and its branch of the action genre is a much more realistic goal to aim for.

Edited by NevanChambers
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Leetium

Leetium

Posted
Posted

Whenever you find yourself wondering when something is coming out in warframe there is one very clear answer:

SOON

SOON Is sole property of Valve and branch of the Department for Valvetime

 

dun steel plz

 

*Content has been removed for it has gained a copyright complaints from: Valve*

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Roflchoptreh

Roflchoptreh

Posted
Posted (edited)

I came to this thread thinking that DE had actually tried to ask their community about whether they should be taking their time with development or not for once; to actually give us heads up before hand.

 

(Sees the Dev post was only a reply)

 

...

 

Nope.

Edited by Roflchoptreh
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Sparrohawk

Sparrohawk

Posted
Posted

I came to this thread thinking that DE had actually tried to ask their community about whether they should be taking their time with development or not for once; to actually give us heads up before hand.

 

(Sees the Dev post was only a reply)

 

...

 

Nope.

 

Entitled, aren't you?

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Brynslustafir

Brynslustafir

Posted
Posted

If we get Detron fixes I will be one very happy Tenno. I did almost 250 Grineer Invasion runs trying to get a Detron. All I got was a BP, even after 5 Harvester encounters. This took away ALL of my desire to play Warframe. The fact that they released the Detron in a manner that was clearly broken just took away all my drive to play the the game, since I've been eagerly waiting for an opportunity to get a Detron since the end of the Gradivus Dilemma. I supported the Corpus for over 100 runs because I wanted that gun. Yet I was left with a Brakk blueprint because of community nonsense and clans forcing members to side with the Grineer(I'm glad to say Asuro Fire made the right decision in letting their members do whatever they want, otherwise I would have been kicked). But once the Detron gets condensed into a single blueprint I'll get back into the game immediately since I already have a blueprint, and probably more than enough stockpiled resources to build it as soon as I download the fix. 

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VKhaun

VKhaun

Posted
Posted (edited)

If you listen to the livestreams they talk about 'grip styles' rotating the different move types.

 

Makes me think Star Wars Jedi Knight games rather than Devil May Cry.

 

Star Wars Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast was the only one I played a lot, but PvE and PvP multiplayer with simple melee moves and selectable melee weapons (lightsabres) that changed up moves based on movement and grip worked fine in third person and first person. Judging by Warframe's blocking animations I wouldn't say that an influence from that series is too far fetched, either.

 

We could actually do one better with the addition of state-based moves. We already have demonstrations of the tech in game to change how the tenno attack enemies that are 'down' or 'not aware'. All they have to do is apply a state with a melee attack, and bam, your next melee attack (or anyone elses) detects that just like a target being 'down' and lets them create neat effects based on 'melee stun' for example, or 'head vulnerable' state or whatever you can think of to set up a new attack other than your default light attack.

Edited by VKhaun
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Ronyn

Ronyn

Posted
Posted (edited)

Warframe would not  necessarily  have to overhaul code their AI for something similar to DMC swordplay to occur. They would have to overhaul many animations and their  accompanying  functions, which I  believe  they are doing to a limited level with Sword 2.0. Another challenge would be have the similar dramatic camera that would be as dynamic as DMC's during combat (Im thinking a series of conditional loops). 

 

I dont want to say that a perfect balance of shooting and swordplay (that is fun) is not possible for many reasons, the fluidity of animations tied to intuitive controls would create that mixed balance. The more developers experiment with it; the more likely a team will eventually  achieve  this. 

 

What I would expect and  appreciate  from sword 2.0 in WF is simply: 

- You equip your sword, like you equip a weapon.

- Block is right (or mapped to mode) click

- Attack is left click.

- Possible new animations that chain existing charge attacks and new charge attack animations, that provide different damage functions.

 

What they can do with this system described that I would not expect in the first iteration:

- New movement functions for this sword equip mode: ie:  persistent  sprint with different animation (possibly speed/stamina tradeoff), to close range.

- A more dynamic (range or height) jump while in sword equip mode:

- Alterations to the  gymnastics  animations the frame perform in sword equip mode.

- Hopefully the removable of zorin chopper animations, and similar functions; replacing them with something more  practicable  

You're on the right track...

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

 

I think you have a totally realistic expectation for sword 2.0 but I also don't think you are expecting or asking for DMC. I do believe there is a lot that can be done to improve Melee but asking to turn a third person shooter into a flashy action slasher is just not realistic.

I cannot tell if what you perceive as the core defining aspects of devil may cry's unique style of combat are really what makes up the core defining aspects of devil may cry's unique style of combat. Since you did not reply to my post where I outlined much of what I consider to be that core we can have no valuable back and forth.

 

My biggest concern is the best way to do Melee is lock on and the worst way to do shooting is lock on so I'm not sure how those would interplay. Though having an equipable sword would provide an avenue to that end where they wouldn't interfere with one another.

 

This brings up two points.

1: A hard Lock-on is not required to add the actual combat moves that would allow warframe to match up with DMC.

Games like god of war and ninja gaiden were able to successfully incorporate the majority of DMC's signature moves without a hard lock on.

2: Warframe has the option of a soft lock on to melee movements already. This could reasonably account for the required "stickiness" to acheive some of the more "flashy" movements.

 

 

Still that doesn't account for scale. A big fight in something like DMC is 15 or so enemies at a time not the hordes we encounter regularly especially with a situation like 4 napalms bombarding you while your trying to aerial rave a lancer. I think dynasty warriors and its branch of the action genre is a much more realistic goal to aim for.

 

In devil may cry (depending on which one) it is not always wise to use an arial rave as it can leave you vulnerable to attack from other enemies.

That same thought process of knowing when to and when not to use it would apply to warframe.

Part of the reason DMC works is that when facing a group of enemies one must know who to shut down, who to kill, and who to avoid.

 

 

I think dynasty warriors and its branch of the action genre is a much more realistic goal to aim for.

In dynsasty warriors the player faces off against upwards of 50 enemies at any one time.

Devil may cry,ninja gaiden, god of war all have the player face off against enemies in relatively small groups.

in those games we aren't likely to see more than a dozen (two dozen in edge cases) or so enemies on screen at any one time.

Warframes amount of on screen enemies much more closely resembles DMC,NG amd GOW then DW and the like.

This is important as the tactics the player will employ are based, in part, by the amount of enemies they face.

 

Also worth learning from are games like the Arkham series, Assasins creed series for general melee combat..

and then hybrid shooter/melee games like dead to rights retribution and DE's own Darkness 2 to see how shooting and melee can be integrated together.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Yes, it will take time to see warframe's melee system grow to its full potential.

No, I would not suggest that warframe try to copy DMC directly so much as it can potentially acheive the same depth of combat using similar (but modified) move sets. 

 

 

If you listen to the livestreams they talk about 'grip styles' rotating the different move types.

I'm all for influences from Jedi knight, I'd be open to that.

But DE clarified that by "grip styles" they simply meant the different weapon types.

They did not intend any sort of system where we would be switching between grips on a single weapon.

 

As for DMC, I wouldn't necessarily expect any influences from it.

I was only talking about what DE could pull off if they wanted to.

Edited by Ronyn
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Crotax

Crotax

Posted
Posted

I demand U12 with new ui, melee 2.0 and oberon goat-mode helmet.

They had 2 weeks to slack off....psh holidays...all they did was drink canadian beer and eat maple syrup turkey bacon

I'll let you know that bacon in maple syrup is godly in the mouth so don't blame them.

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Shehriazad

Shehriazad

Posted
Posted (edited)

Geez, a bit racist much?

 

Either way, they deserved those 2 weeks off. A: They work their butts off around the clock for 5 days a week to give us consistent hotfixes and -weekly- updates. There's no other dev team I can think of off the top of my head that's that devoted. B: said Dev team for Warframe isn't as gigantic as say, Valve or EA or Bioware and so on. Please, tone down the entitlement.

A: Of course it was a joke

B: Racist? Canadians are now a race of their own...good to see.

Way to take things out of proportions breh xD

Edited by Shehriazad
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Tsoe

Tsoe

Posted
Posted

I’d love it, thing is it won’t work

Warframe despite being in third person is built like an FPS in the way that movement and aiming work. This is inherently incompatible with a game like DMC. There is a reason that there aren’t many if any melee focused FPS style control schemes, no one has made it work. You would at best have to rework everything about the control system and then apply it only when a selectable melee weapon was equipped. Even then it would only work for those of us using a controller. Don’t believe me? Go try to play any DMC with a keyboard mouse combo. You could also save yourself the trouble though and just drill a hole in your head they are similar experiences, actually the hole-drilling might be more pleasant.

That is to say nothing of how the enemy AI would have to be scrapped completely and rebuilt from scratch. If you’ll notice very few of those kinds of games have many ranged focused enemies. Those few that do have them use their ranged weapons sparingly and often within the confines of much smaller arenas than Warframe gives us. The only one that has them and has them use their guns in abundance in Ninja Gaiden and it is almost universally panned for how cheap they are. Even in that game though they still make up the vast minority of enemies.

The only game that has even come close to incorporating the two styles was the recent deadpool game and that didn’t work very well either. You either have to minimize the shooting or minimize the melee the choice DE made is obvious. While I find their ambition to improve on it laudable I’m not holding my breath for anything spectacular. The two styles are just inherently too different to play nice together.

TLDR: Everything about warframe prevents DMC style combos from happening.

 

 

so how did i end up dmc3 special edition in allmost all mode with both dante and vergil?

 

are my mouse and keyboards magik?

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