Fair Tweaks - Updated For Update 12!

[Rabidbluedeath]

It means that rather than having a dozen targets highlighted at the start of the Bladestorm cast as possible targets, the next target is selected right before Ash teleports to it throughout the entirety of the cast. This gives the ability more fluidity, so that if your allies kill half the enemies in the room, Ash can continue to pick off stragglers, rather than have the attack end early in spite of enemies still being present.

Oh ok, Yea I like that. For some reason I though you were talking about the player selecting each enemy.

 

 

It wouldn't rotate around you; it would hover a set distance away from you and follow you around, centering itself on your cursor so it will always be in front of you, letting you direct it as you go and always have the protection and damage buff. It would be like a mobile alternative to Snow Globe, rather than a poor man's version with a damage buff.

Even then it would add some utility and take it away at the same time. Plus then you can't plant one in a doorway and keep running preventing the shots from following. Or giving pop-up cover to an ally. I think its fine as is, but I see what you were trying to go for now.

[Eyeless]

It means that rather than having a dozen targets highlighted at the start of the Bladestorm cast as possible targets, the next target is selected right before Ash teleports to it throughout the entirety of the cast. This gives the ability more fluidity, so that if your allies kill half the enemies in the room, Ash can continue to pick off stragglers, rather than have the attack end early in spite of enemies still being present.

This is exactly what Blade Storm needs. Sure other Ults do more damage and the scaling of Damage Abilities in general needs looked at/re-worked in light of higher level enemies but that's a whole different ball park. 

 

How do you think Ash should go about targeting these stragglers though? Should they add a form of priority list so that if a line of heavies walked in he'd kill them as apposed to the shield grineer? 

 

As for Blade Storms damage, which will fall off after a while despite being a flat 2000 armor ignore...

 

Think it would be too overpowered making it like a Spy's Knife in TF2? In that game on Backstab the target would be dealt damage equivalent to their 600% of their health. In short no matter how much the enemy has the number of health will be multiplied tenfold as damage resulting always in an instant kill. 

 

If Ashes Bladestorm did damage multiplicative of any enemies Health it would certainly assist in his scaling even if he brought no other team utility to the table. 

[Rabidbluedeath]

This is exactly what Blade Storm needs. Sure other Ults do more damage and the scaling of Damage Abilities in general needs looked at/re-worked in light of higher level enemies but that's a whole different ball park. 

 

How do you think Ash should go about targeting these stragglers though? Should they add a form of priority list so that if a line of heavies walked in he'd kill them as apposed to the shield grineer? 

 

As for Blade Storms damage, which will fall off after a while despite being a flat 2000 armor ignore...

 

Think it would be too overpowered making it like a Spy's Knife in TF2? In that game on Backstab the target would be dealt damage equivalent to their 600% of their health. In short no matter how much the enemy has the number of health will be multiplied tenfold as damage resulting always in an instant kill. 

 

If Ashes Bladestorm did damage multiplicative of any enemies Health it would certainly assist in his scaling even if he brought no other team utility to the table. 

Personally I find the straggler vs heavy argument irrelevant. 15 stragglers and 1 heavy, it kills the stragglers but not the heavy. Heavy is now alone and not as many people shooting at you while you kill it. Either way your doing good work.

 

Ash already has the (arguably) strongest hit for hit ult, embers is stronger if the enemy takes all the ticks of damage. It just gets overlooked because (with the exception of excalibur, and ember?) Ults don't usually have target caps so the damage cap is theoretically limitless. As much as I would like it to happen, I think the rest of the community would cry foul if Ash was given 15 guaranteed kills for his ult. I think instead of trying to fix the damage dropoff (which needs to be fixed across all the frames if its fixed in one) Bladestorm should confuse the targets and their allies in the 20M radius from the first target. I know if I saw a space ninja warping everywhere I'd be confused or trying to shoot it, not ignoring it. Bladestorm lasts what 15 seconds? thats a decent CC and damage ability more comparable to Rhino Stomp and M Prime, which appear to be the standard by which a frame is judged useful or useless. It also would turn the long duration of bladestorm into a boon, maybe then people would quit trying to turn it into an insta-nuke. (not you personally its just the most common theme)  

Edited January 15, 2014 by Rabidbluedeath

[drunkpunk222]

Crap ultimate skill animation and skill also, super long casting time for most squishy warframe by feeling. You will rarely if ever will see this warframe when all get ember prime and delete it, its still useless and broken.

Edited January 15, 2014 by drunkpunk222

[Xhominid]

Crap ultimate skill animation and skill also, super long casting time for most squishy warframe by feeling. You will rarely if ever will see this warframe when all get ember prime and delete it, its still useless and broken.

 

...What the hell are you speaking? It's definitely not english...

[Archwizard]

Crap ultimate skill animation and skill also, super long casting time for most squishy warframe by feeling. You will rarely if ever will see this warframe when all get ember prime and delete it, its still useless and broken.

...What the hell are you speaking? It's definitely not english...

 

I believe he's referring to World on Fire?

[Noble_Cactus]

For Banshee, rework Silence. Though I believe that was explicitly stated to have been looked at on Livestream 20, so we'll see what they do.

 

Sonar's scaling issue has been mentioned. That, and that it will often target invulnerable areas on certain bosses like Lech Kril and Lephantis. That needs to go.

 

Sound Quake has several strange bugs that need to be addressed. It has a few gamebreaking bugs that involve Banshee getting stuck in the kneeling casting animation. Grineer Seekers also seem to ignore it occasionally. I thought it was a lag issue at first, but after playing more missions, Seekers really do just waltz on through the earthquake whenever they feel like it.

Edited January 15, 2014 by Noble_Cactus

[HAYABU5A]

definately banshee !! PLEASE DE.. please..

[Polarthief]

Putting a target cap on MPrime effectively ruins its usage at higher level as a utility ability. Hell, I'd rather lose the explosion damage ENTIRELY than lose the utility on marking an entire room.

 

Rather than nerfing Nova (like EVERYONE keeps spamming to make it happen) or Vauban back in the day, DE specifically stated that they wanted every frame to be "God Tier", so why not just buff everyone else to be up to that level as well?

 

Also, I'm all for scrapping and restarting both Valkyr and Nekros. Nekros is by far the most underwhelming frame in the game with having one tiny niche in Survival.

 

Oh and fix AMD's bugs please (and anyone who thinks AMD should have a damage cap should just get off this game. It requires setup for a REASON)

Edited January 15, 2014 by Polarthief

[Eyeless]

Putting a target cap on MPrime effectively ruins its usage at higher level as a utility ability. Hell, I'd rather lose the explosion damage ENTIRELY than lose the utility on marking an entire room.

 

Rather than nerfing Nova (like EVERYONE keeps spamming to make it happen) or Vauban back in the day, DE specifically stated that they wanted every frame to be "God Tier", so why not just buff everyone else to be up to that level as well?

 

Also, I'm all for scrapping and restarting both Valkyr and Nekros. Nekros is by far the most underwhelming frame in the game with having one tiny niche in Survival.

 

Oh and fix AMD's bugs please (and anyone who thinks AMD should have a damage cap should just get off this game. It requires setup for a REASON)

I feel like one of the few people who appreciate Nekros's versatility. I really do.

 

Sure he isn't the death spewing minion raising badass he was hyped to be (they built so much hype around him to give us what we have now? How could we NOT be disappointed? 

 

He's really not a bad frame. Not in the 'He's not bad, he's just good.' sense, I find him pretty damn fantastic with a versatile tool-kit that makes him pretty relevant when it comes to End Game content. 

 

He's certainly turned out better than Valkyr and Oberon.

[HappyFrisbees]

I don't like your Desecrate idea. Currently Nekro has that usage. To take that away would be making it so no other character in the game can do what he did, and that is "make lots of mats/life supports". 

 

For a rework I'd make the skill a toggle. You turn it on and it small amount, but then it stays on and every 5 seconds it does a pulse that makes all things in range Desecrated. While it's on make it have a slow drain on the energy for pennies of what the activation was. 

 

Currently I'm max efficiency built, and I generally spam Desecrate 4-5 times straight in large groups to get them all desecrated. This change wouldn't hurt my build at all, but greatly reduce the cost in crowds.  Lowering the cost, means less need to be efficency built, and that'd allow more focus on other skills and builds.

[Axterix13]

For Excalibur:

The two things I'd most like to see fixed right now:

Slash Dash - Certain powers from other players stop it.  It needs to go past/through them, just like it does with enemies.  Teammates' abilities should not gut my power.

Radial Javelin - Right now, it leaves you standing around helpless a bit after it does its damage.  I guess the warframe is busy looking around at how ineffectual the power is or something ;)  That post-cast pause needs to go, as it leaves you standing there helpless while mobs can run up and rip you to shreds.  Especially an issue when you lack the quantity of javelins/damage to kill things.  The secondary reason I rarely use this ability (the primary being that it isn't really worth the cost of using it most of the time).

Edited January 15, 2014 by Axterix13

[DragoXXVIII]

I'll take it into consideration; if enough people agree with you I'll take it off the list.

 

In the meantime though, it doesn't cleanly mesh with the rest of his skills, particularly Speed. His design philosophy says mobile caster, his advertisements say "alternative to gunplay", but then you have Electric Shield in the mix which disagrees with both. I understand the idea of making his skillset more versatile so he can be a more well-rounded attacker, but this is one of those cases where it seems like a confusing outlier.

as another volt player i must say a stand alone barrier is fine as is for the simple reason  in times of the mad dash for extract with a hord of gun wielding robots/military nut jobs are on your  backside and just cutting loose ammo on you to drop and run is an optimum tactic . there for you are still mobile  and have given not only yourself room to breath but your team as well

 

also to drop revive a down ally an run is also why it is best to leave as is

 

to swap it to  an aim orbit would just complicate things for those of us that use it for these particular tactics

[Archwizard]

Putting a target cap on MPrime effectively ruins its usage at higher level as a utility ability. Hell, I'd rather lose the explosion damage ENTIRELY than lose the utility on marking an entire room.

 

As I said, in my mind, it was that or give it a cooldown- and it's much easier to mark a whole room with a recastable skill than one you have to pray you have the range on to clean up the first time.

Although I suppose reducing the duration could also work.

 

If I find the majority agrees with you, I'll probably remove the MPrime suggestion entirely.

 

I feel like one of the few people who appreciate Nekros's versatility. I really do.

 

Sure he isn't the death spewing minion raising badass he was hyped to be (they built so much hype around him to give us what we have now? How could we NOT be disappointed? 

 

He's really not a bad frame. Not in the 'He's not bad, he's just good.' sense, I find him pretty damn fantastic with a versatile tool-kit that makes him pretty relevant when it comes to End Game content. 

 

"Versatility"?

He has three "in a pinch"-flavor CCs despite only one of them being intended as a pure CC (which I'd call "redundant", not "versatile"), none of which are cost-efficient and all of which are annoying to control at best; few of the players I've talked to about Nekros have even expressed a belief that Shadows is a damage skill (several have even laughed at the suggestion it was), compared to an overwhelming majority stating it's just a meatshield factory.

His only other skill gives him a niche in Survivals and high-end Defenses barring field-clearing frames, which I wouldn't call "versatile"- unless you're referring to Equilibrium builds, which are not unique to Nekros (especially now that Oberon can do the same).

 

I have no problem with him not being a field-clearing frame; I find great enjoyment playing Loki and Trinity, and don't think they desperately need any changes. I've even found Oberon a far more enjoyable experience, as while he could use tweaks, he's likely to be seen in as many mission types as Excalibur, Loki etc. (which is actual versatility, by the way). My problem is that Nekros doesn't evoke the image of a Necromancer nearly as well as a gimmick-themed frame.

 

At any rate, you say he isn't what he was hyped to be, but you come into a thread to complain about someone pointing out that exact same thing, who is asking for it to be compensated?

 

I don't like your Desecrate idea. Currently Nekro has that usage. To take that away would be making it so no other character in the game can do what he did, and that is "make lots of mats/life supports". 

 

Already addressed.

At any rate, Nekros is more befit to adopt vampiric attacks than even Trinity.

Edited January 15, 2014 by Archwizard

[Eyeless]

 

As I said, in my mind, it was that or give it a cooldown- and it's much easier to mark a whole room with a recastable skill than one you have to pray you have the range on to clean up the first time.

Although I suppose reducing the duration could also work.

 

If I find the majority agrees with you, I'll probably remove the MPrime suggestion entirely.

 

 

"Versatility"?

He has three "in a pinch"-flavor CCs despite only one of them being intended as a pure CC (which I'd call "redundant", not "versatile"), none of which are cost-efficient and all of which are annoying to control at best; few of the players I've talked to about Nekros have even expressed a belief that Shadows is a damage skill (several have even laughed at the suggestion it was), compared to an overwhelming majority stating it's just a meatshield factory.

His only other skill gives him a niche in Survivals and high-end Defenses barring field-clearing frames, which I wouldn't call "versatile"- unless you're referring to Equilibrium builds, which are not unique to Nekros (especially now that Oberon can do the same).

 

I have no problem with him not being a field-clearing frame; I find great enjoyment playing Loki and Trinity, and don't think they desperately need any changes. I've even found Oberon a far more enjoyable experience, as while he could use tweaks, he's likely to be seen in as many mission types as Excalibur, Loki etc. (which is actual versatility, by the way). My problem is that Nekros doesn't evoke the image of a Necromancer nearly as well as a gimmick-themed frame.

 

At any rate, you say he isn't what he was hyped to be, but you come into a thread to complain about someone pointing out that exact same thing, who is asking for it to be compensated?

 

 

Already addressed.

At any rate, Nekros is more befit to adopt vampiric attacks than even Trinity.

I'm not complaining about people complaining, I just find no issue with his skills when I use them and they've served me well, consistently, throughout higher level play. 

 

I'm aware of what versatility is, as I play Excalibur and Loki a fair deal, and I take Nekros to all the same places I take them with similar effectiveness. I agree that he doesn't live up to the 'Necromancer' vibe and wouldn't mind if DE gave him the revamp so many of the community is asking for so long as it kept with his current mix of sustainability and pinch CC I love him for. 

 

If they insist on keeping him the way he is though then I'd like Soul Punch to have more 'width' with it's projectile so it could consistently knock over more enemies. 

 

I'd like it if Terrify's target limit were removed and maybe tweaked so the targets didn't haul &#! out of the original chamber and then several others.

 

Desecrate needs to be less reliant on RNG and consistently spawn orbs/ammo/loot.

 

Shadows is...well, yeah, I actually like his first three abilities but even I can admit that his ultimate is pretty lacking. I'm not sure simple AI tweaks will do much to make it stand out and I feel this is the ability that needs improved or revamped the most. Despite all my time playing him I can't quite come up with anything solid enough to replace its current iteration, though I'll put some below.

 

My ideas involved raising whatever number of corpses were around at the time while doubling their health/resilience (like any atypical undead that isn't a Skeleton) and possibly doubling their attack damage. No target limit so he could keep raising an army of zombies until all his minions bit the dust. Like a real Necromancer. 

I don't see this being as 'OP' as M.Prime or Stomp, I see it as being incredibly useful when there's a large number of enemies and a large number of piling corpses. 

The only limit this initial idea has is the cost of the Ult and the time it takes for goons to disintegrate on death. 

 

Second idea was he uses the souls claimed by Soul Punch (if it had the spread on impact I wanted I'd like it to punch out multiple souls) and raise a hard capped number of scaling personal minions to Nekros's side. Not fancy copies of enemies he punched, but minions with their own looks, animations, attacks, etc. 

This is likely the least plausible.

 

To summarize what I'd like changed beyond his ult though:

 

Soul Punch: More width/AoE on impact

 

Terrify: Remove target cap and keep enemies from running completely out of the room, just enough to give Tenno some breathing room

 

Desecrate: If it needs to be changed from an RNG Loot Spawner gimmick then I'd like it to leach health and shields from the surrounding enemies and distribute that to the team while depleting the enemies own reserves. 

Maybe put in a multiplier on the health and shields drained so it can actually be lethal against all enemy tiers. 

 

I'm no game designer, I never claimed my ideas were perfect or flawless, but I'm putting them down anyway just in case it gives people something to work with that might spawn something better that's actually great.

Edited January 15, 2014 by Hastur609

[Archwizard]

Soul Punch: More width/AoE on impact

 

Terrify: Remove target cap and keep enemies from running completely out of the room, just enough to give Tenno some breathing room

 

Desecrate: If it needs to be changed from an RNG Loot Spawner gimmick then I'd like it to leach health and shields from the surrounding enemies and distribute that to the team while depleting the enemies own reserves. 

Maybe put in a multiplier on the health and shields drained so it can actually be lethal against all enemy tiers. 

 

I could def see Terrify keeping the target cap per cast but removing Power In Use (so we can cast more), which would definitely work better with removing enemies from view.

 

Desecrate, I absolutely agree on the Life Drain. I'd normally say it could keep the looting gimmickry as long as it had a damage component, but since Oberon can spawn orbs now I wouldn't be too torn up if it lost all bonus looting and just did a radial heal which would benefit his pets.

... Or I would say that if people wouldn't tear me apart for him losing the ability to pull out O2 packs.

Perhaps it could keep the RNG loot spawning, but just base it on the %HP of enemies? Maybe deal Viral damage with a high proc chance, to aid in that endeavor?

 

But if we're gonna continue on about Nekros, we should consider https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/122003-nekros-critiques-and-proposals-last-updated-113/'>moving this to another thread.

[Xhominid]

I'm gonna toss in some of my suggestions for the 5 Warframes that I feel can get some buffs up and a change to some of the Warframes who while I believe don't need no real buffs, can get some tweaks in here and there.

 

1. Saryn:

 

Venom - One of Venom's BIGGEST problems is that it just doesn't do as much damage as it should against higher leveled enemies. It's purpose works fine(being able to toss in DoT spores that damage the crap out of enemies and can pop those and spread them around), but the issue comes in that at higher levels, it doesn't do enough damage to really be worth using, combined with the bug to make Miasma do more damage with the cost of making Venom do far worse(by lowering the overall Duration of both skills) pretty much destroy the move after say lvl 20+(I would say lvl 30, but some enemies can take forever to die even by that level lest you are carrying some heavy firepower). One idea is to just plain buff the DoT's overall, if Venom stacking cannot be added back in. Another is to have mini-Venom stacking by having MORE spores be stacked on the opponent if you pop the 2nd person's Venom after it has been applied from another enemy only. Or another buff is by having increased damage from both duration and having it be affected by Power Strength(if it isn't already) and doing the same for Miasma, making Saryn be what she should have been from the start.

 

Molt - Molt is pretty much Decoy's weak &#! cousin, Decoy can still suck up more hits, can still be used anywhere without much Energy and it actually looks pretty damn rad with it acting like an actual decoy. There's only one real buff to give to Molt to make it different: Make it explode, dealing Poison damage if the enemies destroy it. Give it some difference compared to Loki's Decoy or else there's no real point in having Molt.

 

Contagion - Just either change the move or have Melee get a point in 2.0, no real other option...

 

Miasma - Simple, have it gain more power through longer duration, not shorter duration(increasing it's range is no problem either), otherwise, stellar Ultimate from otherwise a very promising but lacking Warframe.

 

2. Valkyr

Paralysis - I haven't used this move, yet I heard plenty of people say it needs a change in a bad way, so yeah...

 

Warcry - I see NOTHING that makes this move good. Maybe it's because it's still on lvl 1 because I don't see the enemies getting weaker or more flee-worthy or anything...heck, I don't feel her getting stronger either... move just feels useless for 75 energy.

 

Hysteria - HOO BOY does this move need a fix in a bad way, not because it's terrible, but because it's intended purpose is flawed from the get go. As many stated, either get rid of the energy gauntlet attack or revamp them for Melee 2.0 PRONTO as she is WAY too stiff in that form and it shows. Secondly, increase it's range, because for all the reach, it still feels like I have to be hugging the person to hurt them and that makes no sense considering my arm can be in their model and do no damage at times. And finally, increase her speed in Hysteria or something, she's a BERSERKER for crying out loud going on a rampage, yet I can still be easily outsped by normal enemies at times simply running backwards. Pretty much, Melee 2.0 NEEDS to benefit Hysteria too, not just normal Melee weapons.

 

3. Ember

Fireball - Do I honestly need to go with this? I have used Fireball quite a bit and I can see where people are coming from when they never touch this skill. It needs to gain more splash damage, it needs to actually DO some damage, give it some level of hitscan and finally, DON'T LET IT HURT YOU FROM CLOSE RANGE!

 

Fire Blast - This move needs a rework not for it's damage, but for it's radius...

I expected an actual blast of fire coming out of Ember, not a ring of fire that barely extends anywhere that most enemies won't even run into(not even gonna talk about how it doesn't even cover the entire thing). The only buff I can give is make the move into more of a a line DoT that's around the same level as Mag's Pull so the move is actually worth the 75 energy(or 50 I kinda forgot).

 

I don't really have a problem with Accelerant taking over for Overheat as I know what Ember is, so I'm gonna skip Accelerant entirely.

 

4. Nyx

Psychic Bolts - Make it do damage, make it hurt, give it some level of anything, make it worthwhile, make it do something!

 

Absorb - "Wait WHAT!? What the hell is wrong with Absorb?!" Nothing in how it works or what it does, but they need to fix the bug where melee enemies and blast enemies don't contribute to the overall damage bonus to Absorb.

 

5. Oberon

Smite - Smite is a very powerful move that loses it's usefulness simply because of one thing: The balls made after Smite hits rarely hits anything afterwards. How about give them homing abilities to hit any enemy after that? 

 

Hallowed Ground - Hallowed Ground is a powerful ability at early levels, but at the late game, enemies will NEVER stay on the carpet enough to actually get hurt so how about this: Give the Carpet the ability to slow the opponents for as long as they stay on the carpet? Finally gives Oberon a GOOD CC.

 

Renewal - Good ability in practice, bad execution wise. Make the energy that HoT the allies go faster? 

 

Reckoning - Simple as Nyx's Absorb, make Reckoning have 100% chance of dropping Health Orbs if an enemy dies by it rather than 50%? Against High Level enemies, Reckoning won't be able to oneshot them anyways and that's pretty much the reason most people use it to begin with.

 

And now the Warframes that don't really need a fix, but a minor tweak in certain moves:

 

Mag: Mag, even at higher levels, can pretty much take down Corpus enemies without any real issue at all due to Shield Polarize, the problem is that after that, she loses usefulness...

The easiest way to counter that is by raising the overall damage of both Pull and Crush(but mainly Crush). I understand Mag is more of a team player, but considering that she is pretty much only useful at Corpus for most people, this is honestly something she needs to go against Infested and Grineer and stay relevant.

EDIT: I also forgot for Crush, make it's CC actually effect Heavy enemies too. It gets ridiculous when I crush a Grinner Napalm with it, only for him to instantly reset to standing and knock me on my &#!.

 

Nova: "WHAT!?" What did I just say!? This isn't fixing her, but tweaking 2 moves that AREN'T M.Prime and AMB...

you done with that comment anyways that I won't read because you can't bother finish reading this sentence? Good.

 

Before I was interrupted, Nova is a great frame for all levels of the game in the end due to her versatile moveset...but the issue is that unlike Rhino, who pretty much has NO moves that can really screw him over, I do believe Nova needs tweaks in 2 of her moves as maybe this will cut down on M.Prime spammers:

 

Null Star - "But...but Null Star is a grea-" Shut up, you know it has issues. Null Star is a great move...sorta. It's main purpose is to mainly act as a mini-shield around Nova, but the issue with that is that most of the bulkier enemies or even leagues of enemies, the move loses it's usefulness fast and many resort to M.Prime spam, so I suggest this:

 

Give it the ability to be able to stun or even Knockdown enemies. This is not a massive buff in it's direction if you can notice, this gives it more of it's intended purpose and actually gives Nova some level of defense if you do get multiple enemies on your back while you active a Life Support Unit/Res someone.

 

Wormhole - Wormhole is a move I rarely see Nova's use and for good reason: It's bugged. I've had times where I couldn't even get WARPED because of shoddyness, let alone get enough distance to actually save my own &#!. And for 75 Energy, I can see why people would use M.Prime more to save themselves.

Easiest answer to this other than fixing the move? Make it 50 Energy and make AMB 75. Fair compromise between both moves considering how insanely powerful AMB can be while Wormhole can easily become Nova's most versatile move if used right.

 

Sorry for the long winded post, but I wanted my points to be made and nothing gets the more obvious than longwinded posts.

Edited January 17, 2014 by Xhominid

[Temp0ralfool]

posting after reading the title and first post: what you want are buffs, and DE uses the term "fix" as a synonym for nerf (when not actually fixing bugs that negatively effect gameplay experience).

[Syriiz]

I... honestly can't tell if you're being sarcastic, Inez.

 

But the problem with Desecrate is fourfold:

1) It relies on corpses. This reduces its effectiveness in scenarios where a player is likely to have allies capable of disintegrating bodies (Nova, Saryn, Dethcube), weapons with Toxin or (on Infested maps) Fire damage; even without those, corpses still despawn within seconds, and the skill itself prevents a player from looting a corpse multiple times due to its own inborn disintegration effect.

2) It relies on RNG, with no base effect. You can cast the ability three or four times on a group of bodies and still may only end up looting maybe one corpse, "60% chance" or no. It's just not cost-efficient, and half the reason it's his most-cast ability.

3) It doesn't befit Nekros. From a thematic standpoint, a necromancer deteriorates the living and manipulates the dead- he doesn't rummage through pockets looking for loose change. From a gameplay standpoint, each of his abilities scatter his opponents, they don't group up their corpses.

4) It's boring. You're wasting more energy than most frames spend on their ultimates to... wave your hands over an enemy and get some more money and ammo. At least Frost, Nyx and Banshee can cast their single tricks and keep firing; Nekros is perpetually stuck in that cast animation (and not in the way frames like Mag and Volt might be in a combat scenario).

 

It's not a "bad" ability- it's probably the only thing that gets most players to use him after capping him- but it needs a change, at least to be more appealing to cast and more agreeable with Nekros' skills.

 

What I was thinking, Kaidinah, was that it could give essentially the same utility- causing enemies to drop health orbs and extra resources- but it could be used on living enemies (thereby allowing you to bypass disintegration and recast it, especially as enemies get more powerful) and have a damaging component (thereby giving you a benefit even if it doesn't proc). As long as it can still affect multiple targets per cast, it doesn't deteriorate its usefulness.

 

I agree. I absolutely hate the current Desecrate--it makes Nekros a farming machine. I bought him the day I registered, love his concept design that much. But he turned out to be a grave robber, not a necromancer which I play in every fantasy themed game.

[mynameisd]

Some are minor gripes, some are complete reworks (I try to cut down on those). Some are buffs, some are nerfs (most are tradeoffs). Most are absolutely necessary, some are... partly because they'd be cool, but primarily because they're better than what we already have and would still be thematic.

 

Sometimes suggestions like these are just our way of pointing out there's something inherently wrong with what we're addressing, but we can't put our fingers on it. It's not always the right solution, but often it's a step in the right direction.

 

But these are things we all want to see in the patch notes at some point, DE. A lot of these have been asked for for a good long while- just look around this forum. Yes, a handful in this particular list have my own spin on them, but I'm sure the comments will correct me if I'm horribly out of line. For the most part though, it's a summary of the past several months in here.

 

The list, in alphabetical order by 'Frame:

 

Loki:

- Decoy: Add radial stagger upon destruction, affected by Power Range (damage optional but unnecessary).

- Radial Disarm: Consider a stronger effect against Infested.

 

Saryn:

- Molt: Allow Saryn to transfer debuffs to the Molts she summons.

- Contagion: Give it the Speed treatment.

 

Volt:

- Electric Shield: Allow it to orbit Volt and follow his cursor, but not be recastable while in use.

Feel free to add anything I missed, or question the ones I didn't.

 

Loki;

Yep I thought about something similar, perhaps also make him able to make several clones ^^.

 

Saryn;

-really good and simple idea with the mold^^

It should also explode opon destruction and be spammable ^^

-Yup also agree on the speed ^^

-Another thing would be visual impact, wuld be nice to see green toxin oozing from her hands etc. ^^

-her 1 needs treatment lol.

 

Volt;

A lot of people like it as it is, altough i think it's an okay idea albeit a bit op? :P could be balanced if it retracted If you attack continuosly.

But the ability exists in DarkSector so it should be alright. Would also make melee more viable so +1 ^^

DE should make ability mod Modifiers, so you can change abilities according to your preferences :P

[LukeAura]

Rebuttal

If you believe that tagline you don't understand Volt. Volt has never been an "alternative" to gun play. Up until this last round of patches he never really put out enough damage by powers to be so. Back in the day Speed was a closing power for Melee (and rushing, mainly rushing, but lets focus on combat) or repositioning. Shield offered a self-buff (through damage boost it gives) and a Team skill for slower frames (back when Speed wasn't a team buff). With the changes to Speed it is even more of melee buff AND team support skill.

Looked at it objectively Volt was one of the first true team support frames. His speed, shield, and Shields let him get to almost any downed ally and get them back up, as well as prove damage boosting cover. He wasn't an alternative to gunplay, he was, and still is an enhancer. Now of both Melee and Gunplay.

When you look at Speed and Shield they offer different buffs for different Non-caster styles of play. One is for high speed melee, the other is from a more static defense. Both are in their current form Team skills. Shield can be deployed anywhere the team is making a stand to province bonus damage and extend cover.

You say that Shield doesn't mesh with the idea of a speedy "alternative to gunplay" caster. Which is true... if that's what Volt was. Shock, is primarily an area stun with some light damage (CC). Speed is a team buff good in most situations, even Defense and Mobile Defense. Shield is just in time "make your own cover" and damage buff, which helps Volt be useful in Defensive mission where his "Speed" is of less value, also in those rare situations where a team needs cover in a non-defense mission. Ult, everyone one hold still and do the jitterbug while most of you die and my team and I pick off the stunned heavies who lived.

Turning shield into something that floats only in front of him basically removes any team value it has, since Warframe's bodies block shots. He can't drop it for a teammate and move. It reduces Volts viability in Defense missions.

It is fine to have a dissonant power, especially when that power extends the kinds of missions the frame is viable in.

While you make excellent points on what Volt is, keep in mind that

DE has shown with Ember, what they want a frame to be is what they will make the frame. 

If Volt is advertised as a mobile caster, and an alternative to gunplay, and actually meant to be one, he will be made one regardless of how us the players use him currently. 

They wanted Ember to be a CQC, high risk, high reward damage and CCer. They made her one. Well, improved her in that direction any ways. 

 

[Archwizard]

posting after reading the title and first post: what you want are buffs, and DE uses the term "fix" as a synonym for nerf (when not actually fixing bugs that negatively effect gameplay experience).

 

They're not all buffs (granted, the biggest nerf I threw in was stomped on by everyone who spotted it), but most of them are just small logic adjustments or reversions to jarring changes.

 

Or preventative measures for the biggest weaknesses of that ability that reduce its versatility and usability, inborn and brought up since conception but otherwise ignored by the development team.

 

If a "fix" can't be a "buff", then I consider "buff" just a relative term.

[jmthebigman]

Descecrate is good, but maybe make exploding body parts do dmg. also guarenteed health orb. + something else randomly like it is now.

[Archwizard]

While you make excellent points on what Volt is, keep in mind that

DE has shown with Ember, what they want a frame to be is what they will make the frame. 

If Volt is advertised as a mobile caster, and an alternative to gunplay, and actually meant to be one, he will be made one regardless of how us the players use him currently. 

They wanted Ember to be a CQC, high risk, high reward damage and CCer. They made her one. Well, improved her in that direction any ways. 

 

 

The thing is, none of us can claim to know better about Warframe's design philosophy than its devs, obviously. But in the case of some frames, you find that the skillset doesn't neatly mesh, be it for mechanics or stat-building.

 

Primarily (at this moment) Volt, Saryn, Nekros, Ember, Trinity and Oberon.

 

Now with Volt and Saryn, it's superficial: they're very spread out, which makes their skillsets a bit schizophrenic. Speed and Contagion (and Saryn's bulky stats) paint them as melee of varying speed, their first and fourth abilities (and Volt's squishy stats) paint them as casters of varying ranges, but then you have Molt and Electric Shield feeling very out of place. They have their uses for mitigating damage, sure, and they're even visually thematic- but one emphasizes stability and sniping (which sends a very different message from Speed's mobility and melee), while the other emphasizes drawing enemies away from oneself and is frankly just weird to be in the hands of anyone but Loki, especially someone with double his raw survivability and no need (or real ability) to hide.

I've already discussed Nekros' Desecrate, the most important facet being that his other three skills emphasize scattering his foes, but the skill that gives him his strongest niche requires them to die grouped. In terms of stats and polarities though, he's hardly any different from Excalibur- which just doesn't fit for the rest of his abilities, since Excalibur is built to be in the melee and Nekros has stronger support/weaker offensive options. Even from a thematic standpoint, most of his arsenal is tangentially related at best; you imagine a necromancer to be squishy and lacking in personal firepower but capable of spamming debilitating debuffs and disposable minions- perhaps even having the ability to maintain their minions' and allies' upkeep in a pinch- but not a Jack of All Stats diminished by a series of Poor Man's CCs with annoying cooldowns and high costs, instead spamming... a piñata button. Put tactfully, all of his skills are very niche; put bluntly, he is the inverse of what we expected and his powers seem like obligatory gimmicks rather than self-reliant skills.

 

And in the other boat, you have frames whose problem isn't necessarily ability mechanics, so much as ability scaling- specifically Power Range for Ember and Power Duration for Trinity, Oberon and (still) Saryn.

Accelerant is literally Ember's only ability that has a major benefit from Power Range- yes, in theory World on Fire does, but given the limited number of explosions every second you're generally better off zorencoptering between crowds (plus having a limited range actually increases your odds of hitting the spot you want to hit). I mourn the loss of Overheat not because it gave Ember OP mitigation, but because it didn't interfere with her builds at all (while also making her that much stronger against Infested, her intended prey). Imagine what would happen to Loki's builds if Invisibility's damage modifier started scaling with Power Strength- that's what Accelerant did to Ember.

Meanwhile, you have Energy Vampire, Renewal and Miasma. Duration in Warframe is fine on stat de/buffs, but seems to be busted in terms of (non-entity related) DoTs and HoTs; while Energy Vampire and Miasma would normally (in any other game) have a fixed number of ticks per second and a fixed amount of damage per tick, increasing their duration in Warframe just makes sure to have the same maximum output drawn out over a longer period- which means enemies have to survive longer to reach maximum effectiveness. Now that wouldn't be so bad in the case of Renewal, since it provides the additional buff of self-revival, but instead it gets shorter with Duration- so you'll probably run out of healing before the Grineer repeatedly knocking you flat needs to reload (and this is before you throw in the absurd number of Bleed procs doing the same on their own).

Sure, you could use Fleeting Expertise to get the maximum benefit from all three of them... except then you're harming Hallowed Ground and literally all three other powers in each of the ladies' skill pools.

 

To make my point brief, being able to use or build for one power should not interfere with any other part of that frame's skillset; they're all on the same character, after all, so you'd imagine they'd all work for the same general purpose. The current system encourages players to diminish abilities, or leave them unslotted entirely- rather than using all the skills the devs insisted on cramming into their skill list.

No frame should be capable of doing everything perfectly, obviously- I'm not saying the devs should eliminate tradeoffs or niches or competition. But each frame should be able to do what they were intended to do very well on their own, without the need for additional gimmicks or allied intervention.

 

TL;DR: It should be up to the players to decide how they build and up to the devs to make these builds viable, not the other way around.

Edited January 19, 2014 by Archwizard

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

Gotta say - I love desecrate the way it is. Hope it stays that way.