Fair Tweaks - Updated For Update 12!

[Archwizard]

Some are minor gripes, some are complete reworks (I try to cut down on those). Some are buffs, some are nerfs (most are tradeoffs). Most are absolutely necessary, some are... partly because they'd be cool, but primarily because they're better than what we already have and would still be thematic.
Sometimes suggestions like these are just our way of pointing out there's something inherently wrong with what we're addressing, but we can't put our fingers on it. It's not always the right solution, but often it's a step in the right direction.

 

But these are things we all want to see in the patch notes at some point, DE. A lot of these have been asked for for a good long while- just look around this forum. Yes, a handful in this particular list have my own spin on them, but I'm sure the comments will correct me if I'm horribly out of line. For the most part though, it's a summary of the past several months in here.

 

The list, in alphabetical order by 'Frame:

Ash:
- Shuriken: Consider applying a (team-friendly) debuff to the target on hit.

- Smoke Screen: Consider adding a short Blind to the stun.
- Teleport: Consider adding a stun (or other knockdown-preventative effect) if an enemy is selected. Allow free-aiming teleportation if a target isn't selected. (Already got Wormhole, may as well.)
- Bladestorm: Make the targeting dynamic (so the next target within range is selected as Ash is about to move to it), rather than set at the beginning of the cast. Consider reducing the number of targets and adding radial damage to those affected, to reduce cast time.

 

Banshee:
- Sonic Boom: Consider increasing the damage and range to be on-par with other offensive skills.
- Sonar: Needs a coding change to prevent focusing on invulnerable areas on enemies (or just make those areas vulnerable to damage too).
- Silence: Popular demand calls for its complete removal. If it remains, however, consider making it a radial aura following Banshee rather than a separate debuff from Sonar, and allowing it to grant a stealth modifier to firearms.
- Sound Quake: Damage immunity while active. Consider giving her the ability to cancel the cast early.

 

Ember:
- Accelerant: Consider opening up the number of elemental damage types it can affect, to make the boost's utility less exclusive to Ember. (Very few players use weapons with non-combo elemental damage.)
- Fire Blast: Deal damage-over-time to enemies inside the circle. Consider adding defensive or CC utility, to make up for the loss of Overheat and diversify Ember's skillset.

 

Excalibur:
- Slash Dash: Increase status chance.
- Radial Javelin: Add innate Punch Through. Reduce the momentary pause at the end of the cast. Consider increasing base damage (to make up for loss of armor-ignore).

 

Frost:
- Freeze: Give it radial freeze on impact. (Reduce damage if necessary to maintain skill budget.) Consider allowing it to freeze for the full duration, without a damage cap.

- Ice Wave: Consider adding knockback.
- Snow Globe: Scale slow effect to entire sphere. Iron Skin treatment - Give the Globe unlimited duration, but add a limit on the number of active Globes. Add visual indicator for the Globe's remaining HP. 

 

Loki:

- Decoy: Consider dealing a radial stagger upon destruction.

- Switch Teleport: Add invulnerability frames to Loki and his targeted allies when swapped. Consider giving targeted enemies a (brief, zero damage) Radiation status proc.

- Radial Disarm: Return ability to cast it in the air. Consider a stronger/more versatile effect against Infested.

 

Mag:
- https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/114146-mags-pull-poll-pool-its-a-poll-for-mags-pull/'>Pull: Remove ragdolling fling, revert to dragging knockdown. Consider reverting line-of-sight change (since Damage 2.0 made it weak to armor again); tone down damage if necessary.

- Bullet Attractor: Remove the explosion at the end, reduce the cost to 35 or 50. Allow enemy/target projectiles fired inside the sphere to automatically redirect, rather than waiting to hit the edge of the sphere (as range mods can give heavy units astounding leeway).
- Crush: Return enemy-ragdolling (especially against heavy units) to the end of the effect. Improve the damage component. Consider applying a debuff to surviving enemies.

 

Nekros:
- Soul Punch: Rework "secondary projectile" effect to alternative, more reliable form of AoE, OR consider allowing it to revive targets as minions instead. Simplify targeting at range, allow movement while casting, reduce cooldown. 

- Terrify: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/122003-nekros-critiques-and-proposals-last-updated-113/?p=1914509'>Remove armor debuff and https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/165588-nekros-ability-suggestion/?p=1941804'>"Power in Use" error. Add a long stagger and/or slow to affected enemies. Activate at the start of the cast rather than the middle.
- https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/161400-fair-tweaks-frames-we-want-to-see-fixed-in-the-next-pass/?p=1910251'>Desecrate: Improve RNG and https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/116297-october-4th-community-hot-topics/?p=1356578'>reduce the reliance on corpses; consider reworking into a Viral damage Life Drain (same effect activating from living enemies instead of corpses), or adding some other baseline effect.
- Shadows of the Dead: Add focus-targeting command to increase control over active minions (zoom?). Rework AI to prevent minions from hiding behind cover and keep them within range of Nekros; add maximum range they can stray before they must follow him. Add a visual indicator for "soul cache".

 

Nova:
- Null Star: Return the guaranteed stagger against damaged enemies.
- Wormhole: Revert the 11.5 logic changes.

- Molecular Prime: Reduce duration, make it affected by Power Duration. Consider adding "Power in Use".
- Sidenote: Mastery lock Nova to at least rank 3, a la Rhino, Soma, etc.

Nyx:
- Mind Control: Stagger damage dealt to the minion by fellow Tenno until the effect ends (a la Hysteria). Consider focus-targeting command for the minion (ie Shadows of the Dead's suggestion).
- Psychic Bolts: Add innate Punch Through. Consider increasing base damage OR applying a debuff to selected targets.
- Absorb: Provide status immunity to Nyx while active, not just damage immunity. Disable Shade's "Ghost" ability while the player is channeling, to prevent threat drops. Allow Nyx to move (even if impaired) while channeling, OR consider allowing Nyx to detonate the effect prematurely at-will.

Oberon:
- Smite: Increase travel speed of secondary projectiles. Consider allowing the secondary projectiles to home in on nearby enemies, or failing that, heal allies based on however many fail to deal damage.

- Hallowed Ground: Add minor crowd control component, to keep enemies within area for a longer period. Consider adding a stackable defensive effect to allies standing on Hallowed Ground.
- Renewal: Increase healing potential. Remove instant dispersion upon allies reaching maximum health. Allow linear scaling with Power Duration (increasing the healing cap to match increased uptime). Consider returning the ranged-revival "bug", or granting another defensive effect while active.

Saryn:

- Molt: Convert explosion to Gas damage. Increase explosion radius. Increase threat generation, and allow it to draw threat from behind cover.

- Contagion: Give it the Speed treatment- radial ally buff.
- Miasma: Allow it to scale positively with Power Duration (increasing the damage cap, rather than spreading out ticks for the same maximum output). Increase status chance.
- Sidenote: Consider switching Venom and Contagion's names, to match her first skill's Viral damage spread and third skill's melee Toxin bonus.

Trinity:
- Energy Vampire: Invert the effect of Power Duration, a la Renewal.

Vauban:
- Tesla: Return stun to its electrical blasts. Increase the duration (independent of the charges), or remove the maximum duration entirely.

- Bounce: Limit ground activation against players to those who hit their Jump key (not necessarily jump, so as to avoid animation delays) while standing on/within it.

Valkyr:
- Rip Line: Reduce delay if at all possible to improve responsiveness. When aimed at the environment, consider scaling pull duration based on distance fired.
- Warcry: Reduce cost to 35 or 50. Remove the armor buff, and move the life drain effect from Hysteria into Warcry instead. 
- Paralysis: Increase stun radius and duration. Consider adding knockdown.
- Hysteria: Increase swing range/radius of regular swings (in part so she doesn't "hover out of range" after aerial attacks). Reconsider the hover effect; allow Valkyr to surge forward a more substantial distance while swinging, a la normal melee weapons. Consider adding the elemental/finisher damage of the player's equipped melee weapon. 

 

Volt:
- Speed: Not on the ability itself, but add a graphics option to completely disable the fish eye; the energy trails on frames should be enough of an innate indicator.
- Electric Shield: Same as above, add a graphics option to tune down the visual distortion. Needs better synergy with Speed; consider allowing Volt (and perhaps his allies) to pick it up and carry it with him.

 

Zephyr:

- Dive Bomb: Drastically increase radius and damage, as casting from maximum height leaves much to be desired for its output. Add vertical radii and Punch-Through to the explosion, so as not to "miss" by clipping on the environment. Increase responsiveness during Tail Wind-dashing if at all possible. Consider allowing the player to "drift" in the direction they're facing. 

- Tornado: Add a Vortex-style effect to keep enemies/loot inside until the effect ends.

- Bugs: Low-gravity physics prevent her from kicking off walls any meaningful distance.

 

Top 5 recommended rework priorities: Banshee, Frost, Nekros, Oberon, Valkyr

 

Feel free to add anything I missed, or question the ones I didn't.

Edited March 13, 2014 by Archwizard

[Genoscythe]

I agree with most of your suggesttions, especially Nekros. Make a sentinel with a "desecrate" - effect instead.

 

Make Nekros a real necromancer instead: Make clones loose 1-4% hp per second, give him a life-siphon that distributes damage dealt to all allies, making him able to sustain his army while dealing damage and supporting mateys.

 

Some alternatives:

 

Loki: Give decoy an initial invincibility affected by power duration

 

Nova: maybe damage cap for the antimatter drop (5000?)

 

Oberon: smite projectiles follow enemies

 

Vauban: damage buff for vortex(maybe 100 impact/100 radiation/ 50 magnetic per tick) to make it also viable for offensive use (really, who plays defense anymore except for voids and ODD to farm prime parts?), affected by power range.

 

 

For all frames damage abilities: instead of a fixed damage value give it a small modifier that increases with enemy level. Most casters are too OP in early game while completely loosing damage capabilities in lategame.

Edited January 9, 2014 by Genoscythe

[Archwizard]

 

Nova: maybe damage cap for the antimatter drop (5000?)

 

Oberon: smite projectiles follow enemies

 

Vauban: damage buff for vortex(maybe 100 impact/100 radiation/ 50 magnetic per tick) to make it also viable for offensive use (really, who plays defense anymore except for voids and ODD to farm prime parts?), affected by power range.

 

I'm not really sure about Vauban or Nova (proper use of AMD is more of a mark of skill, so I think it can stay as is), but Smite already fires the projectiles in the direction of nearby enemies- they're just so slow they never hit anything.

 

Make Nekros a real necromancer instead: Make clones loose 1-4% hp per second, give him a life-siphon that distributes damage dealt to all allies, making him able to sustain his army while dealing damage and supporting mateys.

 

Holy cow I would absolutely love this, but I was just pointing out some bare-minimum changes we'd like to see with the list.

 

Given its rework-y nature, mind throwing that in my Nekros thread instead? https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/122003-nekros-critiques-and-proposals-last-updated-17/

Edited January 9, 2014 by Archwizard

[Brasten]

As a Volt player I disagree with the making Shield orbit Volt.

One of the advantages of Shield is that you can use it as drop and forget cover for allies. Also being able to cast multiple and with the current method of placement allows you to build your own Shield walls.

Volt is fine, for the first time in a very long time, LEAVE HIM ALONE. His ult has been fixed. His Elemental damage is actually viable. Shock now is a Stun even if the target isn't being real hurt by electricity so it is viable.

[Warmage_Timeraider]

No Nekros changes? I OBJECT! :D

 

Though Genoscythe gets the idea, that kinda thing would be awesome. No worries anymore about duration of the army.. just about the amount of enemies there are.. more is better :D

[Archwizard]

No Nekros changes? I OBJECT! :D

 

Nekros:

- Soul Punch: Rework “secondary projectile” effect to alternative, more reliable form of AoE. Simplify targeting at range, remove cooldown.

- Terrify: Remove armor debuff and “Power in Use”. Add a stagger or 50% slow to affected enemies. Activate at the start of the cast rather than the middle.

- Desecrate: Reduce RNG and remove the reliance on corpses; consider a Life Drain rather than a corpse re-roll.

- Shadows of the Dead: Add focus-targeting command for minions (zoom?). Rework AI to keep minions within range of Nekros.

 

... Umm?

[Archwizard]

As a Volt player I disagree with the making Shield orbit Volt.

One of the advantages of Shield is that you can use it as drop and forget cover for allies. Also being able to cast multiple and with the current method of placement allows you to build your own Shield walls.

Volt is fine, for the first time in a very long time, LEAVE HIM ALONE. His ult has been fixed. His Elemental damage is actually viable. Shock now is a Stun even if the target isn't being real hurt by electricity so it is viable.

 

I'll take it into consideration; if enough people agree with you I'll take it off the list.

 

In the meantime though, it doesn't cleanly mesh with the rest of his skills, particularly Speed. His design philosophy says mobile caster, his advertisements say "alternative to gunplay", but then you have Electric Shield in the mix which disagrees with both. I understand the idea of making his skillset more versatile so he can be a more well-rounded attacker, but this is one of those cases where it seems like a confusing outlier.

[Kaidinah]

I want Desecrate to stay the same. I love it. I love it a lot.

[Genoscythe]

I want Desecrate to stay the same. I love it. I love it a lot.

 

I think desecrate is a good skill, it has use for sure.

 

But not on a frame that is supposed to be a necromancer.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not really sure about Vauban or Nova (proper use of AMD is more of a mark of skill, so I think it can stay as is), but Smite already fires the projectiles in the direction of nearby enemies- they're just so slow they never hit anything.

 

 

Holy cow I would absolutely love this, but I was just pointing out some bare-minimum changes we'd like to see with the list.

 

Given its rework-y nature, mind throwing that in my Nekros thread instead? https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/122003-nekros-critiques-and-proposals-last-updated-17/

 

 

 

AMD is a nice skill for sure, but it can be made completely OP with a good weapon (100k damage gone AoE!). But its also one of the best endgame skills, I wouldnt mind if it stood the same.

 

About Vortex: given the extremely low range and damage versus the energy cost, something is wrong there. Also vortex is extremely weapon reliant, rewarding you for puncture or AoE weapons like penta. Well, and of course it has not much use if youre not defending a certain point, but running through a level actually.

 

Increasing its damage would just give it more use for player who actually like to play skills as themselves (casters ftw!), also this could mean cool new skill-builds for vauban, maybe if fleeting expertise not only reduces time it stays, but also the time between damage ticks like it does for saryn. A short-timed high-damage CC if you want it so.

 

It would be completely optional, I mean what bad can a damage increase be while it does not intervene with other efffects?

Edited January 10, 2014 by Genoscythe

[Brasten]

his advertisements say "alternative to gunplay", but then you have Electric Shield in the mix which disagrees with both. I understand the idea of making his skillset more versatile so he can be a more well-rounded attacker, but this is one of those cases where it seems like a confusing outlier.

Rebuttal

If you believe that tagline you don't understand Volt. Volt has never been an "alternative" to gun play. Up until this last round of patches he never really put out enough damage by powers to be so. Back in the day Speed was a closing power for Melee (and rushing, mainly rushing, but lets focus on combat) or repositioning. Shield offered a self-buff (through damage boost it gives) and a Team skill for slower frames (back when Speed wasn't a team buff). With the changes to Speed it is even more of melee buff AND team support skill.

Looked at it objectively Volt was one of the first true team support frames. His speed, shield, and Shields let him get to almost any downed ally and get them back up, as well as prove damage boosting cover. He wasn't an alternative to gunplay, he was, and still is an enhancer. Now of both Melee and Gunplay.

When you look at Speed and Shield they offer different buffs for different Non-caster styles of play. One is for high speed melee, the other is from a more static defense. Both are in their current form Team skills. Shield can be deployed anywhere the team is making a stand to province bonus damage and extend cover.

You say that Shield doesn't mesh with the idea of a speedy "alternative to gunplay" caster. Which is true... if that's what Volt was. Shock, is primarily an area stun with some light damage (CC). Speed is a team buff good in most situations, even Defense and Mobile Defense. Shield is just in time "make your own cover" and damage buff, which helps Volt be useful in Defensive mission where his "Speed" is of less value, also in those rare situations where a team needs cover in a non-defense mission. Ult, everyone one hold still and do the jitterbug while most of you die and my team and I pick off the stunned heavies who lived.

Turning shield into something that floats only in front of him basically removes any team value it has, since Warframe's bodies block shots. He can't drop it for a teammate and move. It reduces Volts viability in Defense missions.

It is fine to have a dissonant power, especially when that power extends the kinds of missions the frame is viable in.

[-CM-Syein]

as of now, the only time Valkyr need range is probably her ripline. Other than that, she doesn't need any power range ability. 

You could "add range" to Valkyr's ability, instead of saying "adding power range" into Valkyr's ability. 

If you add power range into Valkyr's ability, that would be nerfing her A LOT.  

Her power relies mostly on duration, so you think of *Narrow minded* mod. Narrow mind reduce range but longer duration. 

[Inez]

I want Desecrate to stay the same. I love it. I love it a lot.

Why would you want a skill that gives you extra mods, ammo, health, energy and resources?

Is something wrong with you?

[Ragewalker]

Ash:

- Teleport: Allow free-aiming teleportation if a target isn’t selected.

- Bladestorm: Make the targeting dynamic, rather than set at the beginning of the cast. Consider reducing the number of targets and adding radial damage to those affected, to reduce cast time.

 

Ember:

- Fire Blast: Consider adding some form of utility other than additional burning. (Replacement with Overheat's original debuff resistance or some other form of mitigation remains a popular suggestion.)

 

Trinity:

- Energy Vampire: Invert the effect of Power Duration, a la Renewal.

 

I haven't played all the frames, so I'll just add what really sticks out to me.

Ash: Bladestorm is such a sad ability, far too slow. Even if they made it hit all the same targets, but players only see it hit maybe 2 or 3, it would speed up the killing and increase the usefulness tenfold. Every time an ash casts this, someone else kills most of his targets.

Ember: World on Fire needs more targets. 3 max, really? Considering she's a fire frame and meant to own infested, she doesn't. Playing her in a survival or defense, you get swarmed and WoF doesn't kill them fast enough.

Trinity: I don't know if I agree with your suggested change to Energy Vampire. I recently started using her and find her to be an absolute dream. The longer duration is useful to keep a more powerful opponent stunned (like ancients, gunners etc) while giving you energy, it's glorious.

Well thought out though!

[-CM-Syein]

Trinity and Nova should be left alone, as of now. If you take account of vs faction, or account of no offensive ability, they are at a disadvantage in certain situations/ and more advantage in certain situations.

They are both frames that required their teammate to either keep them alive or damage for them. So should neither buff nor nerf them. 

[tris1]

Trinity and Nova should be left alone, as of now. If you take account of vs faction, or account of no offensive ability, they are at a disadvantage in certain situations/ and more advantage in certain situations.

They are both frames that required their teammate to either keep them alive or damage for them. So should neither buff nor nerf them. 

id say they should be the standard of what frames should be

[Eyeless]

Your suggested changes to bounce aren't too clear to me, so I'll tell you how I interpreted it so you can correct me.

 

When you throw it, players must walk over to it and stand on it for a sec for it to activate, rather than stepping foot on it and having it activate instantly.

 

If this is what you intend, I strongly oppose this, as it completely removes the quick on-the go utility that I use it for.

(Believe it or not I don't use it for trolling, but for quick escapes or speedier ascension/parkour!)

Having players pause to wait for the Bounce Pad to activate on them dramatically slows down the pacing. Really, it's fine the way it is.

 

For your other changes, I agree with all of them.

[Archwizard]

as of now, the only time Valkyr need range is probably her ripline. Other than that, she doesn't need any power range ability. 

You could "add range" to Valkyr's ability, instead of saying "adding power range" into Valkyr's ability. 

If you add power range into Valkyr's ability, that would be nerfing her A LOT.  

Her power relies mostly on duration, so you think of *Narrow minded* mod. Narrow mind reduce range but longer duration. 

 

Actually my buddies playing Valkyr have gotten some impressive results with Fleeting Expertise, since they can transition more quickly from melee to range while still having long enough invincibility periods to revive allies.

I'll see about adding a distinction to the list though.

 

Ember: World on Fire needs more targets. 3 max, really? Considering she's a fire frame and meant to own infested, she doesn't. Playing her in a survival or defense, you get swarmed and WoF doesn't kill them fast enough.

Trinity: I don't know if I agree with your suggested change to Energy Vampire. I recently started using her and find her to be an absolute dream. The longer duration is useful to keep a more powerful opponent stunned (like ancients, gunners etc) while giving you energy, it's glorious.

 

On Ember: Noted; recent complaints about Ember haven't really been clear to me, to be honest, since every forum about her just becomes fights about Accelerant, how they should have kept Overheat and removed Fireblast, etc.

 

On Trinity: I understand that the stun duration is a boon to Trinity, but the math on Energy Vampire states that its energy regeneration (its primary function) becomes the only one of her skills to suffer when using Duration mods, since the ticks become spaced out over the full duration; enemies need to be forcibly kept alive to make full use out of the cast.

And let's face it, it staggers bosses into submission where every other CC would fail- DE's going to take a look at that eventually.

 

Trinity and Nova should be left alone, as of now. If you take account of vs faction, or account of no offensive ability, they are at a disadvantage in certain situations/ and more advantage in certain situations.

They are both frames that required their teammate to either keep them alive or damage for them. So should neither buff nor nerf them. 

 

I'd rather keep "NERF NOVA" bait out of this thread, but the listed Molecular Prime change was a compromise- since it does cause enemies to explode for over 1600 damage upon death (affected by Power Strength and Blast resistance). If it only debuffs 12 people per cast, it's still a functional nuke against most enemies in range with the splash. Doesn't touch the debuff, doesn't touch the explosive damage itself. In essence, it hardly even damages her effectiveness- but it is the kind of change that has asked for universal demand.

 

Meanwhile, things like Null Star and Crush lost their stunning ability with Damage 2.0's implementation; I have to assume that's a bug, but it's something to look at.

 

Your suggested changes to bounce aren't too clear to me, so I'll tell you how I interpreted it so you can correct me.

 

When you throw it, players must walk over to it and stand on it for a sec for it to activate, rather than stepping foot on it and having it activate instantly.

 

If this is what you intend, I strongly oppose this, as it completely removes the quick on-the go utility that I use it for.

(Believe it or not I don't use it for trolling, but for quick escapes or speedier ascension/parkour!)

Having players pause to wait for the Bounce Pad to activate on them dramatically slows down the pacing. Really, it's fine the way it is.

 

The idea is that the ability becomes less of an instant "throw all allies against their will" and more of a trampoline that simply asks for player activation. It wouldn't necessarily have a delay of X sec, it would just require the player to run onto it and hit spacebar to be sent flying, rather than being flung out of extraction or barred from entry into rooms.

In short, nerf Trollban without touching Vauban.

Edited January 10, 2014 by Archwizard

[Archwizard]

I want Desecrate to stay the same. I love it. I love it a lot.

Why would you want a skill that gives you extra mods, ammo, health, energy and resources?

Is something wrong with you?

 

I... honestly can't tell if you're being sarcastic, Inez.

 

But the problem with Desecrate is fourfold:

1) It relies on corpses. This reduces its effectiveness in scenarios where a player is likely to have allies capable of disintegrating bodies (Nova, Saryn, Dethcube) or weapons with Toxin or (on Infested maps) Fire damage; even without those, corpses still despawn within seconds, and the skill itself prevents a player from looting a corpse multiple times due to its own inborn disintegration effect.

2) It relies on RNG, with no base effect. In many scenarios you can cast the ability three or four times on a group of bodies before any success, and even then may only end up looting maybe one corpse, "60% chance" or no. It's just not cost-efficient, and half the reason it's his most-cast ability.

3) It doesn't befit Nekros. From a thematic standpoint, a necromancer deteriorates the living and manipulates the dead- he doesn't rummage through pockets looking for loose change. From a gameplay standpoint, each of his abilities scatter his opponents, they don't group up their corpses.

4) It's boring. You're wasting more energy than most frames spend on their ultimates to... wave your hands over an enemy and get some more money and ammo. At least Frost, Nyx and Banshee can cast their single tricks and keep firing; Nekros is perpetually stuck in that cast animation (and not in the way frames like Mag and Volt might be in a combat scenario).

 

It's not a "bad" ability- it's probably the only thing that gets most players to use him after capping him- but it needs a change, at least to be more appealing to cast and more agreeable with Nekros' other three skills.

 

What I was thinking, Kaidinah, was that it could give essentially the same utility- causing enemies to drop health orbs and extra resources- but it could be used on living enemies (thereby allowing you to bypass disintegration and recast it, especially as enemies get more powerful) and have a damaging component (thereby giving you a benefit even if it doesn't proc). As long as it can still affect multiple targets per cast, it doesn't deteriorate its usefulness.

Edited January 21, 2014 by Archwizard

[NDroid]

It's a good list overall, a few changes or additions I would make:

Banshee- a new issue that appeared with Sonar after D2.0 and the removal of armor ignoring weaponry is that past a certain enemy level shooting the Sonar weakspots does less damage than shooting regular ones (like the head) due to scaling. A possible solution to this is having the Sonar weakspots ignore armor (bosses could be exempt from this though).

Frost- Ice wave could use a 100% proc chance to slow down those it hits otherwise it quickly becomes useless. Another interesting suggestion I've seen is having it leave a freezing strip on the ground (that only affects enemies) similar to those in the Void.

Nova- While I can understand Nova being toned down the 12 target limit is too harsh considering M-Prime is still a 100 energy cost ultimate. Some suggestions I've seen are limiting the range at which explosions chain and having the damage they do scale with enemy HP to make it less powerful against low level enemies but more viable against high level ones.

Nyx- I think even punch through won't be enough to make Psychic Bolts useful. Even if they're all guaranteed to hit it's not a cost efficient way to deal damage and you're better off spending that energy on something else. I would just replace the power altogether to be honest.

Saryn- Venom either needs a 100% proc chance for the Viral health reduction or to have it restored to its former glory with spore stacking (with fixes made to performance and a possible energy cost increase to 50). Contagion could be more useful but I'm waiting to see what's done with Melee 2.0 first.

Edited January 13, 2014 by NDroid

[Cyb3rsage]

idd ndroid i wouldn't mind that change i mostly  play nova in our void group atm and wouldn't mind seeying a small downscale on lowlevel enemies to have a slight buff on high level enemies (this is mostly where nova plays her big role anyways)

 

about nekros i wouldn't mind seeying his desecrate be idd reworked it's still posible for a quick player to actually get the reroll on corpses that vanish but it's rather stressfull especially when your allready long going in a void mission and can't avoid mprime / antimatter drop to be delayed

 

while i understand everybody is crying foul at both nova / trinity for various reasons tbh there should be more frames that are viable among their level of play and even then they fill a niche role yes they clean out whole rooms on lower missions but when it starts going at proper levels it's another story

[Cwierz]

Many of these changes are things I have suggested as well, or was the first to suggest. I agree with these.

 

Also, I am now taking the stance that trinity is dumb, and thinking she is okay is illogical.

[Archwizard]

It's a good list overall, a few changes or additions I would make:

Banshee- a new issue that appeared with Sonar after D2.0 and the removal of armor ignoring weaponry is that past a certain enemy level shooting the Sonar weakspots does less damage than shooting regular ones (like the head) due to scaling. A possible solution to this is having the Sonar weakspots ignore armor (bosses could be exempt from this though).

Frost- Ice wave could use a 100% proc chance to slow down those it hits otherwise it quickly becomes useless. Another interesting suggestion I've seen is having it leave a freezing strip on the ground (that only affects enemies) similar to those in the Void.

Nova- While I can understand Nova being toned down the 12 target limit is too harsh considering M-Prime is still a 100 energy cost ultimate. Some suggestions I've seen are limiting the range at which explosions chain and having the damage they do scale with enemy HP to make it less powerful against low level enemies but more viable against high level ones.

Nyx- I think even punch through won't be enough to make Psychic Bolts useful. Even if they're all guaranteed to hit it's not a cost efficient way to deal damage and you're better off spending that energy on something else. I would just replace the power altogether to be honest.

Saryn- Venom either needs a 100% proc chance for the Viral health reduction or to have it restored to its former glory with spore stacking (with fixes made to performance and a possible energy cost increase to 50). Contagion could be more useful but I'm waiting to see what's done with Melee 2.0 first.

 

As far as Sonar weakspots, I find that a bit odd since they can already hit the target 5 times harder minimum; even armored to 75% it should still be a net buff.

 

Ice Wave, I'm not really sure about. I already suggested giving a CC component (likely a slow) to Hallowed Ground and threw slowing Terrified enemies on the list. I feel Ice Wave is intended to just be the obligatory damage move- given that it's more cost-efficient than his ultimate- but I could see it getting a stagger component and, perhaps, an increased status chance.

 

It would be 12 targets increased by Power Strength (which would also affect it's damage, and I'm sure most people build for the explosion damage), each still inflicting radial damage upon death to far more enemies; the alternative was giving it a Power In Use lock whenever it's already active, which I was hoping to avoid because I personally find that annoying (and I'm sure I'm not the only one). I don't think having it scale would be a great solution, since it would mean you're basically required to bring Nova in for end-game missions; meanwhile, reducing the distance of the explosions would make it more difficult to complete the damage-chaining the ability is advertised for. Leave it at "we'll see".

 

I always imagined Psychic Bolts inflicting a stacking debuff on targets; I'm not really one to say "buff damage", especially on this list.

 

Honestly, I feel that Venom should've had Gas damage with an increased proc chance, to try and restore it to its former glory as the strongest AoE 25 energy skill; Viral seems like the sort of thing that would be more fitting in Nekros' hands.

[Rabidbluedeath]

Ive been in the ash needs a buff thread talking with some people about improvements for him in particular. I'm not sure want you mean when you say dynamic targeting can you please explain in more detail?

 

I think teleport just needs to be free target, prevents any target acquisition problems, completely. 

 

In the other thread I had an idea I'll also post here to see what you guys think. (its for shuriken)

 

Teleport argument aside after reading what Wikipedia has on shuriken (its actually pretty interesting, I'll link to it) What if shuriken had a (75%?) chance to inflict a random (5?) second debuff. Burning, Confusion, Blindness, Poison, movement speed, can't shoot or something else. (All of these were supported by possible uses of the real life counter part). I don't think it would be OP with the damage but that's debatable. It would add some team utility and CC that people want ash to have.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shuriken

 

Also, Volt shield should stay stationary. I would never use it if it rotated around me.

[Eyeless]

The idea is that the ability becomes less of an instant "throw all allies against their will" and more of a trampoline that simply asks for player activation. It wouldn't necessarily have a delay of X sec, it would just require the player to run onto it and hit spacebar to be sent flying, rather than being flung out of extraction or barred from entry into rooms.

In short, nerf Trollban without touching Vauban.

You know, I think I'd be kind of okay with this, though I'd really miss fact that I can just toss it at my feet without needing to think about it. So long as Space would serve as the activation button and not "You need to be in this VERY specific pose/animation frame for this to work!"

 

Just imagine the issues that'd cause! I'd much rather be able to be in the middle of a roll/animation, my bounce pad happens to be there so even though my character is busy rolling I can tap space and my character is still rolling but now up and over a rail.

Edited January 15, 2014 by Hastur609

[Archwizard]

Ive been in the ash needs a buff thread talking with some people about improvements for him in particular. I'm not sure want you mean when you say dynamic targeting can you please explain in more detail?

 

It means that rather than having a dozen targets highlighted at the start of the Bladestorm cast as possible targets, the next target is selected right before Ash teleports to it throughout the entirety of the cast. This gives the ability more fluidity, so that if your allies kill half the enemies in the room, Ash can continue to pick off stragglers, rather than have the attack end early in spite of enemies still being present.

 

Also, Volt shield should stay stationary. I would never use it if it rotated around me.

 

It wouldn't rotate around you; it would hover a set distance away from you and follow you around, centering itself on your cursor so it will always be in front of you, letting you direct it as you go and always have the protection and damage buff. It would be like a mobile alternative to Snow Globe, rather than a poor man's version with a damage buff.

Edited January 15, 2014 by Archwizard