De, Would You Finally Remove The Slash Proc From Enemies Please?

[Volvadin]

Slashing procs shouldn't occur while shields are at least =>25%.

[DoomFruit]

I kinda like the concept of bleed / slash procs.

However a better mechanic might be to reduce the tick damage, and increase the time (so same total damage), so you at least get a chance to inform or get to a team mate. Currently its a all a bit "ive got full shields, why am i taking dam... < Revive : Forfeit > ".

Then introduce something like, if you have (full?) shields, the initial bleed inflicted is halved.

Personally i want players to get fire procs on them - it'd tickle me seeing teammates run about burning for a minute or so ;)

Players *do* get fire procs. I've been set alight several times.

[seiryuo]

"I'm a level 1 grineer butcher and I'll bleed you to death."

Imho procs should only happen on the surface they are meant to aply to. So before shields go down no bleed should be able to happen...
Just how the f*** are you making me bleed if you didn't touch my armor?

Edited January 20, 2014 by seiryuo

[Stuifiee]

Slash damage is the main reason in run with Rejuvenation when I go solo, instead of Energy Siphon. To compensate I build my frames for power efficiency.

 

The occasional 10 damage bleeds aren't that much of a problem, but sometimes you die from bleed faster than when you would stand in a poison cloud.

[NeroUmbra]

It's only fair that enemies can proc bleed on us if we can proc it on them, isn't it?

 

No.

 

The law of large numbers means players will have procs happen on them multiple times.

 

At the same time we will only rarely proc on our enemies unless using shotguns/high fire rate weapons. Even then we won't proc on our opponents nearly as often as we suffer procs...

[Paradoxbomb]

I think the three main issues with bleed are that:

 

1) Every enemy can inflict it

2) Unless you have Trinity or Oberon, there's no reliable way of getting health back

3) It bypasses shields

 

If you ask me, they should rework these status effect so that certain weapons can ONLY proc one, and more importantly the one that makes the most sense. Automatic rifles should reduce enemy damage, Shotguns should cause stagger (at point blank), and sharp melee weapons and eviscerator blades should cause bleed. This makes it more definite which enemy can do what, and also makes what status effect we get less random when using our own weapons.

 

We also need Health 2.0 or something, because right now the only way to reliably get a lot health back is with Trinity, Oberon, or to a lesser extent Nekros, and even with him you have to run around in the open in pick up the orbs while being shot for more damage than they even restore. The only other options are Equilibrium, which is hard to acquire and clunky, and Team Restores, which are God-awful slow and cannot be used in the heat of battle. Why don't get why getting health is so exclusive to three frames and a few subpar trinkets. Just make red orbs drop from enemies once in a while, or make red orbs percentile based so you don't need a ton of them just to get a quarter of your health back.

 

At the very least make it so bleed procs don't work on shielded targets, that way their not quite so one sided against us, and if we really need to damage enemies through their shields, we can just use toxic/gas damage.

Edited January 20, 2014 by Paradoxbomb

[MortalSage]

I don't mind the slash proc being there but it totally sucks that i cant effectively defend against this damage type unless i buff the hell outta my shields and health. Even if i do it's still not a guarantee if I don't have a frame with base stats large enough to absorb the damage. This point touches on the larger issue this game tends to get to situation at high lvls. If i dont have a certain frame I definitely can't run this map. If someone does have a good enough frame in my party they end up getting most kills while i run behind them and only provide cover. I think the DE should look into buffing the skill based mods like blocking and redirection of damage. If we had more options to counter damage and different enemy situations the game would change entirely. I could actually rely on my ninja skills and not just the stats on my guns and warframe.

[Taranis49]

I doubt Slash procs can be removed.

 

Since DE is looking for ways to remove massive Shield Tanks who prefer to using Redirection instead of Vitality, which Vitality was said to be useless, until Bleeding effects arrived.

 

I'm actually glad to see effects like these introduced in game.

 

That's not really true, Vitality was still a valid choice against Infested: particularly since in updates past, Toxic Ancients left a cloud where they died, meaning you had to eat health damage if it died in a narrow hallway, or sit around waiting for the cloud(s) to pass.

 

By contrast, against most enemies where bleed procs are a major short-term issue (e.g. Stalker and Evis), Vitality basically is pointless. :-P It doesn't go high enough to where a bleed is survivable for most frames in the former case, and even with the latter the best you're looking at surviving maybe one bleed proc with a maxed Vitality.

 

The reason nobody tanks with health hasn't changed - because there still isn't a reliable method to regain health for most frames.

Edited January 20, 2014 by Taranis49

[dashashou]

Dmg 2.0  mobs get procs ,  players  get small boosters 

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

I'd say - make slash proc only possible on target with no shields. Including both players and mobs. Ability to do damage through shields breaks core game mechanics. It goes both ways too.

[Axterix13]

I wouldn't mind seeing the slash procs split their damage between health and shields, with a shifting level depending on the shielding available.  So if you have 500/500 shields, the full amount goes to the shields, but if you have 400/500, then it goes 20% to health, 80% to shields.  At least for a big proc like the Evisceraters.

 

I doubt Slash procs can be removed.

 

Since DE is looking for ways to remove massive Shield Tanks who prefer to using Redirection instead of Vitality, which Vitality was said to be useless, until Bleeding effects arrived.

 

I'm actually glad to see effects like these introduced in game.

This ties into the lack of healing available though.  Since shields regenerate (and have multiple mods to do it faster) and health doesn't, it makes sense to emphasize shields.  All the current situation does is make people complain about bleeds, dislike the Nightmare mode when there's no shields (that one I find far more annoying than bleed procs, actually), and potentially avoid ice levels.

 

At the very least, I'd like to see Vitality not just boost hp but also the healing from red orbs and items.  And speaking of items, the craftable heal needs a major boost in effectiveness.

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

You cannot really make a hodge-podge mix of regenerating and not regenerating "health" and make it work. It will always be broken. If they want to keep it this way health should be impossible to damage until shields are gone. Alternative is making neither or both regenerate, the former requiring redesigning of entire game to allow player to do a no-damage runs with any warframe if they have the skill.

I'd say just be consistent and remove all ways to damage health while shields are up.

[Makya]

I'd say just be consistent and remove all ways to damage health while shields are up.

Toxic damage has always, and still does bypass shields without a proc, unless I am mistaken.

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

Toxic damage has always, and still does bypass shields without a proc, unless I am mistaken.

It does. And I'm not sure how I feel about this, kinda iffy. It's like Almighty damage in Persona games, but without downsides.

[Derethevil]

In my opinion, DE should just finally add something to revive yourself if you are a solo player.

This is the biggest downside on it.

 

Maybe give you something like a bleedoutstate like in GW2. If you can kill some enemies, you revive yourself. Right now its just annoying as hell, if you get hit by an Eviscerator. 

"Wow you have 1000 shield and 700 health.. that's nice! Let me show you how fast you can die anyway!"

 

I dont even want to play any other Warframe then Rhino anymore. Not because i like him the most, because the game is pushing me towards it, if i want to play at least a bit past as Jupiter without dying 24/7.

[Tsukinoki]

@Derethevil
And even Rhino wont save you depending on how many eviscerators are attacking you at once.
Just had a glitch spawn on a Phobos Survival mission.  It spawned only eviscerators through the 5 minutes I stayed there and no other units at all.  I was in a team of 4 and we were constantly going down due to the procs.  Not even the Rhino could stay up for very long.  Even a scratch when fighting eviscerators is deadly and that is just ridiculous.  Especially when 4 medium heal restores at once isn't enough to prevent the bleed from downing you...
An beyond the Rhino who had to refresh his IS quite often no one else lost even half of their shields...they still were downed increadibly often with absolutely nothing that could be done about it.

Edited January 21, 2014 by Tsukinoki

[SicSlaver]

How does one get slashed when you still have shields up? What are shields anyways? I thought the shields were supposed to protect the person from physical damage and impact. How are you bleeding already when the bullets aren't even making physical contact with your skin? I'm so confused about this bleeding proc and have questions that I want addressed. My problem with it is that it doesn't make sense!

Edited January 21, 2014 by SicSlaver

[Loswaith]

Not so useless, but situational (vs who you're playing, where you're playing, do you use Smoke Screen/Invisibility (or maybe you have Trinity on your team) so you simply don't care about mobs staying alive and let them bleed out.

Slash proc damage is dealing the same amount of damage the hit that proc'ed did (affected by all kind of modificators).

A random video, i believe i recorded it somewhere around second version of Damage 2.0

While your video does shows the bleed damage, there are a few flaws in saying bleed is good.

1. you killed the shield lancer outright (making bleed pointless), even though you got a bleed effect.

2. The Elite lancer wouldn't get to the second hit in a group (presuming you even get the first hit), it would already be dead

3. persistent invisability is available to only 2 out of 17 warframes (21 if you count primes, some 10% of warframes)

4. your enemy was lvl 53, most enemies would have died from the initial hit (you even killed the shield lancer which would of been )

5. your using the highest slashing damage weapon in the game (most will do allot less bleed damage than that), and you could of just hit the guy a third time instead of runing away and would have still killed it

 

The net result of all of it it that bleed is actually useful in less than 5% of situations (the point of my initial statment).

Edited January 21, 2014 by Loswaith

[Obus]

Mod1

+X% chance to resist incoming procs

 

Mod2

Blocking stops all incoming procs, +X% stamina cost.

 

Mod3

Immune to procs while shields are above X%

 

Mod4

X% chance to absorb incoming procs. Procs are released at 50% HP and hit all enemies within Y meters.

It's totally crap decision. No bleed proc if shield not downed - better.

Who defended Injector 100% should remember hundreds of attacking grineers. Without Frost globe was possible to obtain a stack of bleeding in 1 second and die in 5 seconds.

[VKhaun]

It's totally crap decision. No bleed proc if shield not downed - better.

Who defended Injector 100% should remember hundreds of attacking grineers. Without Frost globe was possible to obtain a stack of bleeding in 1 second and die in 5 seconds.

 

I remember doing Ceicero to 30% or so before I knew how it worked, and having bleed procs be a problem on that big open map, yes, but then a funny thing happened. I used my brain and came prepared when I did 100%.

 

I've been running around playing Mag Prime with 315hp and 1,000+ shields and I'm still not seeing anything that's one shotting me or killing me in five seconds while my shields are up. Lv15 Corpus Flux Rifles were dangerous and the proc hit me for like 100-125hp? But hey If you think bleed needs a nerf, fine, that's an opinion that's totally subjective to how hard anyone thinks the game should be.and I would never say you were 'wrong' to think that, but taking a leap from needing a nerf to needing removal entirely so everyone can shield tank everything without thinking is a major step backwards for gameplay and depth that deserves it's own conversation and justification, not a kneejerk reaction because you got killed by it.

 

The only middle ground I can see is that you ALWAYS face bleed procs and then infested have toxic. I think the Corpus Detrons were applying bleed procs on gas planet even, but I'm not 100% sure. It'd be nice to have a firefight faction that didn't apply bleed. I always thought the flux rifle should be heat instead of slash. Maybe take bleed procs off of Corpus? They seem the most likely to let you use cover and recharge anyway.

[PrincessWhite]

nova soft, better equip redirection. *sawblade bounces off shields* NOVA BEING HURTED!! NOVA IS LEAKING RED WATER AIEEEEEEE mission failed

 

Could someone tell me the logic behind bleed being inflicted by something that only bounced off your shield and did not make any physical contact in the first place?

[Lord.Finster]

I too favour the solution of procs not being able to be applied before shields are down; the exception being magnetic proc.

It will however go both ways as the same rule will apply to our enemies, which will make shielded bosses much harder.

 

But fair is fair I guess. :)

[Obus]

I've been running around playing Mag Prime with 315hp and 1,000+ shields and I'm still not seeing anything that's one shotting me or killing me in five seconds while my shields are up. Lv15 Corpus Flux Rifles were dangerous and the proc hit me for like 100-125hp? But hey If you think bleed needs a nerf, fine, that's an opinion that's totally subjective to how hard anyone thinks the game should be.and I would never say you were 'wrong' to think that, but taking a leap from needing a nerf to needing removal entirely so everyone can shield tank everything without thinking is a major step backwards for gameplay and depth that deserves it's own conversation and justification, not a kneejerk reaction because you got killed by it.

Your 1000+ shield will not help you at all, if you got stack bleeding from a pack of mid/high lvl grineer/corpus mobs. It's not a problem if you have Trinity in team, spamming Blessing non-stop. Or if you play Valkyr under Hysteria. But if not? Pray to the gods of randomness?

Edited January 21, 2014 by Obus

[Liminal]

I somehow missed this before.
 

It's only fair that enemies can proc bleed on us if we can proc it on them, isn't it?

Asymmetrical gameplay says no. This is not about being fair to the npcs.

[DoomFruit]

I remember doing Ceicero to 30% or so before I knew how it worked, and having bleed procs be a problem on that big open map, yes, but then a funny thing happened. I used my brain and came prepared when I did 100%.

 

I've been running around playing Mag Prime with 315hp and 1,000+ shields and I'm still not seeing anything that's one shotting me or killing me in five seconds while my shields are up. Lv15 Corpus Flux Rifles were dangerous and the proc hit me for like 100-125hp? But hey If you think bleed needs a nerf, fine, that's an opinion that's totally subjective to how hard anyone thinks the game should be.and I would never say you were 'wrong' to think that, but taking a leap from needing a nerf to needing removal entirely so everyone can shield tank everything without thinking is a major step backwards for gameplay and depth that deserves it's own conversation and justification, not a kneejerk reaction because you got killed by it.

 

The only middle ground I can see is that you ALWAYS face bleed procs and then infested have toxic. I think the Corpus Detrons were applying bleed procs on gas planet even, but I'm not 100% sure. It'd be nice to have a firefight faction that didn't apply bleed. I always thought the flux rifle should be heat instead of slash. Maybe take bleed procs off of Corpus? They seem the most likely to let you use cover and recharge anyway.

Go to Phobos, take a few hits from Eviscerators and then see if you still feel the same way. I've died with full shields because of them. Toxin damage going through shields, I can accept. Slash damage? Nope.

 

I'm fine with bleed procs... if they can only trigger when a slash weapon does health damage.

 

The crux of the matter is this: dying to concentrated enemy fire (either lots of enemies or one fusion MOA drone) is fine, because you had a chance to get into cover or retaliate before it downed you. Dying to a toxic ancient's farts is annoying, but fine because you walked into his cloud. Dying (with full shields) simply because some random Grineer 30 metres away had a lucky throw of the dice is neither fair nor fun.

Edited January 21, 2014 by DoomFruit