Something I Feel Is Missing From Gameplay

[LukeAura]

As I've been playing I've noticed a couple of things. Generally combat revolves around either large AoE attacks that are highly effective at killing masses of enemies at once, guns which are kind of effective at killing a single target at a time, or mod them with punch through for being kind of effective at multiple at a time. One at a time ways to deal with foes, or all at once. Nothing really feels, in succession. No sense of momentum. There is very little feeling that we are in some way chaining kills and attacks together, we're just changing targets or wiping everything out at once.

This is a fast paced, action oriented shooter, that only rewards you for playing fast/smartly/efficiently once you reach the end of the mission, we're not rewarded in mission for playing well/aggressively/tactically/defensively.
"http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Berserker">http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Berserker
This is kind of what I feel is missing, boiled down in to just one mod in our entire arsenal. Berserker lets you swing faster for a period of time on a critical hit, letting you get more critical hits, letting you extend Berserker's duration, which is kind of exactly how a typical Berserker class works killing to fuel more killing; it doesn't cover a weakness on its own, it rewards playing well and nabbing that first critical to unleash a storm, it gives a sense of momentum by changing how well our melee weapons perform mid mission.
Every other mod is made to cover a weakness(before we even enter a game), either in our player skill, Warframe limitations, or in our guns functionality. I don't think any other mods do nothing until we earn the effect.
It's in my opinion mods like Berserker should be the core of our loadouts, strong but conditional mods that require at least smart gameplay to reap massive benefits.

Quick example, I'll probably make a better one tomorrow just so people get the idea a little better. </strike> Ideas have been moved down to the bottom.


Edit;
After getting feedback from you all, especially Methanoid and HandsOfnArtist, I'm making this edit to talk about about a concern that comes with more in game boosts and conditional effects bring up. Identifying what mods you have active.
Mods commonly used today have noticeable visual and practical effects. Shields have a number value and take longer to deplete as they are increased. Damage shows up in the arsenal and enemies die faster. Ability mods make enemies die faster at longer ranges, or let abilities last longer. 
Now because these conditional mods will be toggling on and off during mission circumstances an easy to recognize cue for each buff is highly important to the process. You have to keep track of both the fast paced action, as well as which mods are active at a time.
There are a couple of options to do this

Visual effects that are universal for each type of buff. Mods that increase movement speed will always have the same effect. Mods that benefit reload or damage always have the same effect. Etc. Glows, sparkles, visual rings like the Aviator effect(Look up the Akmagnus video for this one.). The problem with this though is that it will take time for everyone to learn each effect and a new type of bonus will require a new visual cue, but they are easier to notice on the go. Could also extend to sound effects as well, but those too could be lost in the noise of a crowded battle field.

Descriptive pop ups just like how we see loot and ammo come up in a list at the bottom or the way numbers pop off of enemies. A simple pop up like +Damage reduction Frame, +reload speed Primary, or even "mod name" could pop up whenever an effect is activated. And a -Damage reduction Frame when it is deactivated.
Values could appear green when above base even if using the minus to indicate a deactivation, and if conditional mods could raise one effect and lower another appear red when going below the base value and white when neutral. This is good for ease of understanding, we know exactly what effect we activate/deactivate when we activate it, and if we are above or below the base value. The problem is though, they would disappear shortly and we might forget soon after.

Descriptive List like a pop up but it just appears and lingers in a list of active effects underneath health or above the currently selected weapon. Even easier to understand because it always visible while the mod is, but clutters the screen more with values and since these would be to the side would become harder to read while playing.

Descriptive Pop Up + Visual Effect would be helpful in making the association between mod effect and visual cue but would clutter the screen more. Could be an option to turn off one or the other. So if you understand your visual signs really well you can turn off descriptive pop ups, but if you prefer just seeing the pops up you can turn off the visual effect.

While I'm on this topic I'd like to suggest briefly Damage Reduction could also be dealt with by adding two little bubbles at the bottom corners to Health and Shield each one giving a number of how much incoming damage is being reduced by to each value. Say if you have Aviator activated at max rank the shield number will pulse green and jump to 20, while the health one will calculate Aviator on top of armour.
This counters one of the large problems with damage reduction and armour, we can't appreciate their value in game, we never actually see it or can quite tell its effect. We only have time in this game to compare numbers, the difference between having 1000 shields and 450. We can see visuals like rapidly falling shields, but trying to gauge the rate at which shields falls between two instances is almost impossible. Of course we can't create bubbles for everything or the screen would become way too cluttered.

List of Examples from the thread

HandsOfnArtist; 
Bulls-eye - landing a headshot will cause that bullet to have innate punch through (not sure if this already happens though)
Paradoxbomb;
Endless Slaughter- If the last shot in your magazine was a killing blow, your weapon instantly reloads itself, allowing you continue your onslaught.
Spotter- Decreases your total damage by 20%, but increases damage of allies (Tenno, Sentinels, Invasion allies, etc.) by 40%
My own;
Aggressive Surge- If more than x% of a magazine is fired off without pausing for more than one second, every following shot receives a base damage bonus of x%. Bonus stacks on itself if percentage is doubled/tripled without breaking chain.
Adrenaline Escape- Movement Speed increase up to 40% for up to 10 seconds after falling under a status procc.


 

Edited February 14, 2014 by LukeAura

[CY13ERPUNK]

+1 OP

creative use of the mod system would go a LONG ways towards improving what we currently have

IMHO.....

nah, F*** that, not my opinion, FACT : Serration/HornetStrike/etc (+base dmg mods) AND multishot mods NEED TO BE REMOVED from the game, they hurt build variety and they offer NOTHING that could not be done with simple incremental upgrades through ranking a weapon up from 1-30

Edited January 31, 2014 by CY13ERPUNK

[Vahlak]

You are asking for, basically, proc mods, yes?  I support that, but only IN ADDITION to what we currently have.

[Paradoxbomb]

It could be because I've been on a bit of a Sanctum 2 hype lately, but after seeing the various perks available in that game, I couldn't help but think that this is what more mods should be like, providing buffs and bonuses based on different playstyles and situations rather than just +x% to health or damage. However, there's still the issue of said health and damage mods being a necessity, so DE would probably have to find a way to divvy them up (personally I kind of wish they'd reintroduce a skill tree or something for the core stuff, but I doubt that'll happen :/ ).

 

Also, some random mod ideas:

 

Endless Slaughter- If the last shot in your magazine was a killing blow, your weapon instantly reloads itself, allowing you continue your onslaught.

Close Friends- Damage is increased the closer you are to your teammates.

Power Kick- Your flying kicks deal immense blast damage and knock all nearby enemies over. Could have a cooldown period or percent chance to proc.

Spotter- Decreases your total damage by 20%, but increases damage of allies (Tenno, Sentinels, Invasion allies, etc.) by 40%

Critical Reflection- Upon weakspot hit, sniper bullets will chain-hit up to 3 nearby enemies, dealing 75% of the original damage dealt to each of them.

Edited February 1, 2014 by Paradoxbomb

[Omega224]

DE seriously needs to see this topic

[Yastin]

As I've been playing I've noticed a couple of things. Generally combat revolves around either large AoE attacks that are highly effective at killing masses of enemies at once, guns which are kind of effective at killing a single target at a time, or mod them with punch through for being kind of effective at multiple at a time. One at a time ways to deal with foes, or all at once. Nothing really feels, in succession. No sense of momentum. There is very little feeling that we are in some way chaining kills and attacks together, we're just changing targets or wiping everything out at once. 

This is a fast paced, action oriented shooter, that only rewards you for playing fast/smartly/efficiently once you reach the end of the mission, we're not rewarded in mission for playing well/aggressively/tactically/defensively.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Berserker

This is kind of what I feel is missing, boiled down in to just one mod in our entire arsenal. Berserker lets you swing faster for a period of time on a critical hit, letting you get more critical hits, letting you extend Berserker's duration, which is kind of exactly how a typical Berserker class works killing to fuel more killing; it doesn't cover a weakness on its own, it rewards playing well and nabbing that first critical to unleash a storm, it gives a sense of momentum by changing how well our melee weapons perform mid mission.  

Every other mod is made to cover a weakness(before we even enter a game), either in our player skill, Warframe limitations, or in our guns functionality. I don't think any other mods do nothing until we earn the effect.

It's in my opinion mods like Berserker should be the core of our loadouts, strong but conditional mods that require at least smart gameplay to reap massive benefits. 

Quick example, I'll probably make a better one tomorrow just so people get the idea a little better. 

Rifle Mod, Aggressive Surge, if more than x% of a magazine is fired off without pausing for more than x seconds, every following shot receives a base damage bonus of x%. Bonus stacks on itself if percentage is doubled/tripled without breaking chain.

 

 

+1 for the mere fact that I used Berserk to make the Zorens a crit-fueled jet-pack.

[VoidPunch]

Rifle Mod, Aggressive Surge, if more than x% of a magazine is fired off without pausing for more than x seconds, every following shot receives a base damage bonus of x%. Bonus stacks on itself if percentage is doubled/tripled without breaking chain. 

 

 

 

Endless Slaughter- If the last shot in your magazine was a killing blow, your weapon instantly reloads itself, allowing you continue your onslaught.

Close Friends- Damage is increased the closer you are to your teammates.

Power Kick- Your flying kicks deal immense blast damage and knock all nearby enemies over. Could have a cooldown period or percent chance to proc.

Yes and Yes! Honestly, THIS is how to promote build diversity and play style diversity. What we have now is better then damage 1.0 since it was armor ignore/pierce or nothing but still not diverse. Now its choose this elemental for this faction; its still not diverse because everyone has almost the same builds respective to their weapons and what factions they are fighting. 

 

Dynamic mods like this which promote different play styles should happen more. Warframe mods seem to have a few of these but no weapon mods like these (expect berserker). I might post some more idea for mods when I come up with a few. I really hope the devs see this thread and consider it. This would add a lot to the game play. 

[Drasiel]

+1 OP. Berserker is one of my favourite mods if only for the fact that it feels like it really adds something unique to my dual ichors.

 

 

+1 OP

creative use of the mod system would go a LONG ways towards improving what we currently have

IMHO.....

nah, F*** that, not my opinion, FACT : Serration/HornetStrike/etc (+base dmg mods) AND multishot mods NEED TO BE REMOVED from the game, they hurt build variety and they offer NOTHING that could not be done with simple incremental upgrades through ranking a weapon up from 1-30

 

More and more I feel the same way about the +base damage mods and multishot.

[Valiant]

These ideas would be nice and definitely make gameplay more interesting and diverse. We only slightly touch on such things with auras but it isn't really that significant.

Edited January 31, 2014 by Naith

[LukeAura]

You are asking for, basically, proc mods, yes?  I support that, but only IN ADDITION to what we currently have.

Not necessarily proc mods. I'm looking for mods that rely more on play style and behaviour than any form of rng or procc. Go check out the new Aviator mod, http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Aviator , rewards the frequent use of jumping, launching, riplining and super jumping. Although I think the reduction is a little low. We already have mods that more than double our total shields, is a theoretical extra 100-200 really going to matter for the brief time we're in the air? This is the problem currently with these play style rewarding mods, they're add ons, gimmicks, not cores of our loadouts. For our high flying build we should be slapping on Aviator for an impressive 50% damage reduction while airborne and then saying, "Now add Redirection to be immortal.", instead of adding Redirection and then saying, "Now add Aviator because this is supposed to be a high flying build." They're either too weak to be useful or mods like redirection are too strong. 

[Methanoid]

the problem with proc ideas like above is easily recognising the fact they have activated, currently we have dmg visual effects to inform us, but for "self" type effects that involves lots of onscreen indicators/icons/whatever, then it becomes a case of "what the hell just activated, i cant tell"

 

also if the effect helps us yet we arent even noticing when its happening or dont even care then its no different to a static effect.

Edited January 31, 2014 by Methanoid

[LukeAura]

the problem with proc ideas like above is easily recognising the fact they have activated, currently we have dmg visual effects to inform us, but for "self" type effects that involves lots of onscreen indicators/icons/whatever, then it becomes a case of "what the hell just activated, i cant tell"

 

also if the effect helps us yet we arent even noticing when its happening or dont even care then its no different to a static effect.

Perhaps then each boost could be a consistent visual effect?

Anything that effects movement speed will have the same effect as Volt's speed ability.

If it boosts reload speed the magazine of the weapon or the warframe's hands will glow gold. 

That is an issue, but the idea is for these effects to be more significant than the few we have now are currently. 

 

[VoidPunch]

Perhaps then each boost could be a consistent visual effect?

Anything that effects movement speed will have the same effect as Volt's speed ability.

If it boosts reload speed the magazine of the weapon or the warframe's hands will glow gold. 

That is an issue, but the idea is for these effects to be more significant than the few we have now are currently. 

 

Yea, I'm sure they could come up with simple effects for each activation. Obvisuosly if your speed increases then you should know that your mod activated or if you start seeing doubed damage or whatever the mod might do. However more subtle ones could uses a visual que, like. the akmagnus video shows that an aura/energy like ring appears around the warframe when the aviator mod is activated. I'm sure little visual ques like that would be simple

[Methanoid]

Perhaps then each boost could be a consistent visual effect?

Anything that effects movement speed will have the same effect as Volt's speed ability.

If it boosts reload speed the magazine of the weapon or the warframe's hands will glow gold. 

That is an issue, but the idea is for these effects to be more significant than the few we have now are currently. 

 

 

theres probably only so much that can be done to have unique self visuals, it can easily be an issue for new players or for everyone, i know when i first started playing i couldnt tell the "body glow" apart between rhino's buff and trinitys immunity, they looked similar, esp when your busy shooting stuff and not taking much notice, the power colour also sometimes making them hard to distinguish.

 

the only things i can think of that would be easier to identify are things that have an immediate and obvious visual impact/effect, like a mod that allowed double tapping left/right to do a UT99 style dodge.

 

we already have some "unique" but partially useless mods like reflection/reflex guard etc that DO have a visually noticable effect, only their mechanics are half cocked and dont work properly of efficiently or as with most mods arent worth removing for the core handful of mods we pretty much stick on every frame we have because their the only ones with a noticably useful effect.

 

Mods of worth, we probably all fit on every frame first.

HP

SHIELDS

Power Range

Power Damage

Power Duration

Power Efficiency

Max Power Stored

 

Mods we only fit if the above isnt of use, and even then probably arent worth it.

Everything thats not listed above.

[10ner]

Very nice idea. May this thread live long and prosper!

[LukeAura]

Update to the Op on recognizing the active effects for these types of mods! Let me know anything else missing, or you think needs to be addressed.  

[VoidPunch]

I like it... how about putting a list in the OP of all the mod suggestions from this thread as well? I'm sure there will be more. I will be thinking up some and posting them when they come to me. 

 

For one, buff the mods we do have like reflection and aviator.

 

Violent Precision  -  Increases vital spot damage by x3 (instead of x2), but lowers normal body shots by half (great for precision weapons)

Bulls-eye - landing a headshot will cause that bullet to have innate punch through (not sure if this already happens though)

Narrow Blast - Landing every (shotgun) pellet into an enemy decreases the spread of your next shot (does not stack)

Edited February 1, 2014 by HandsOfnArtist

[LukeAura]

I like it... how about putting a list in the OP of all the mod suggestions from this thread as well? I'm sure there will be more. I will be thinking up some and posting them when they come to me. 

You got it! I'll pick some favourites and put them up as ideas build. 

[ThePresident777]

Damage 2.0 is BORING.  It's just a spreadsheet excersise because there is hardly any action.  Enemies are either dead or alive.  They hardly react to getting shot and when they do it's RNG again.  Damage 1.0 had a lot more action and choice and less useless complexity.  And, the guns had more character in Damage 1.0.  Now, most guns fall into a few categories and within categories the only difference is skins and DPS.

[--Q--uaint]

More and more I feel the same way about the +base damage mods and multishot.

No. I don't have maxed copies of Serration or Hornet Strike, but I would be pretty annoyed if my ranked-up copies were gotten rid of. Not to mention all the people who DO have maxed copies, whether by ranking them themselves or with Plat. No, these mods need something done with them, but NOT erasure.

An approach I might use would be to just add a debuff to all the current +X mods, in the vein of the Corrupted Mods.

I think it might work, though, to get rid of the mods and just refund all the fusion energy in Rare 5 cores and turn the mods themselves into Rare cores of the rank they are. That might significantly decrease the flame and hate.

 

Damage 2.0 is BORING.  It's just a spreadsheet excersise because there is hardly any action.  Enemies are either dead or alive.  They hardly react to getting shot and when they do it's RNG again.  Damage 1.0 had a lot more action and choice and less useless complexity.  And, the guns had more character in Damage 1.0.  Now, most guns fall into a few categories and within categories the only difference is skins and DPS.

I'm gonna say I really can't disagree with you. Also, no more launching enemies into pits with the Kogake/Obex; only the Kestrel does that now :(

 

 

Also, OP, you should just quote people, not tell everyone where to find their post :P.

[LukeAura]

No. I don't have maxed copies of Serration or Hornet Strike, but I would be pretty annoyed if my ranked-up copies were gotten rid of. Not to mention all the people who DO have maxed copies, whether by ranking them themselves or with Plat. No, these mods need something done with them, but NOT erasure.

An approach I might use would be to just add a debuff to all the current +X mods, in the vein of the Corrupted Mods.

I think it might work, though, to get rid of the mods and just refund all the fusion energy in Rare 5 cores and turn the mods themselves into Rare cores of the rank they are. That might significantly decrease the flame and hate.

 

Also, OP, you should just quote people, not tell everyone where to find their post :P.

My basic idea is opposite to how warframe works now. mods like Redirection/Serration would still exist but would have the low values of the current gimmicky conditional mods(Values ranging around 20-50%) which although weak are always active and require no effort. While the conditional mods would have their values at our current Serration/Redirection 150% damage, 440% shields etc but would require their specific circumstance to be used and thus only be activated at certain times.  

I'm trying to avoid making an overly large Op, quote blocks just take up more space and go screwy when copy/pasted for me any ways, makes it hard to work with them when they disappear randomly, I just gave reference to the original creators.  

[--Q--uaint]

I do see where you're going with that, but I think people would feel more cheated if their maxed Serration is now almost worthless instead of just making it have a drawback or giving a refund of cores (and credits, mebbe?)

 

Also, large OP's are the norm in idea threads. There is a very low likelyhood, I think, of someone finding another post just to see ideas that you should have quoted yourself. The one instance of post-referencing that I have seen and approved of was a reference to a staff-member's post, important mostly because it's a staff member saying it, and a quote could very well have the name or text changed. :P

For example:

-snip-

 

Also, I would be curious to see how you would recommend situational health/shield increase mods would be like....

 

EDIT: Whoa, lol, it changed the identifying information on the quote back....

Edited February 2, 2014 by L33tV154g3

[ThePresident777]

I'm gonna say I really can't disagree with you. Also, no more launching enemies into pits with the Kogake/Obex; only the Kestrel does that now :(

 

 

Also, OP, you should just quote people, not tell everyone where to find their post :P.

 

They must have added that back into kestrel because I remember it went missing after Damage 2.0.

Edited February 2, 2014 by ThePresident777

[ThePresident777]

My basic idea is opposite to how warframe works now. mods like Redirection/Serration would still exist but would have the low values of the current gimmicky conditional mods(Values ranging around 20-50%) which although weak are always active and require no effort. While the conditional mods would have their values at our current Serration/Redirection 150% damage, 440% shields etc but would require their specific circumstance to be used and thus only be activated at certain times.  

I'm trying to avoid making an overly large Op, quote blocks just take up more space and go screwy when copy/pasted for me any ways, makes it hard to work with them when they disappear randomly, I just gave reference to the original creators.  

 

 

That's not going to solve anything because it's not action.  That's just a bunch of number manipulation like Damage 2.0.

Edited February 2, 2014 by ThePresident777

[LukeAura]

That's not going to solve anything because it's not action.  That's just a bunch of number manipulation like Damage 2.0.

The conditions for mod effects are the actions that intend to reward different play styles depending on which mod you are using. Currently, any conditional effect mod is weak with very little synergy. Effectively what could be 'encouraging a play style' is made to look like 'using a gimmick'. The idea is too change that so that they seem less like gimmicks and more like the core pieces of our loadouts.

 

 

I do see where you're going with that, but I think people would feel more cheated if their maxed Serration is now almost worthless instead of just making it have a drawback or giving a refund of cores (and credits, mebbe?)

 

Also, I would be curious to see how you would recommend situational health/shield increase mods would be like....

Some form of refund would probably be necessary too, thank you for that. Make the difference between your old and new Serration, if beyond new serrations limit, as some stupid high credit and/or fusion worth core. Let's call it an Oxymoronium core.  

I won't cater to anyone who bought one for plat though. That's trading and mostly user based, rather outside of balance and close to how actual economies work any ways. It'll be a valuable lesson. 

The best way I think about doing it would be to have it work like this, the addition gets removed whenever the effect is deactivated, but only up to the amount of it that wasn't dealt in damage. Say for example you get 300 hp for having no shields. Which if kept regardless of deactivation can be a cheap way to heal. If removed off of a frame when deactivated it could lead to a sudden bad situation. With my method the damage you take reduces how much you lose upon deactivation. You gain 300 health, and take 200 damage, when deactivated you lose the difference of 100. You gain 300 and take 450, when the mod deactivates you lose nothing. Not gaining it to heal, not losing it to be damaged. It only factors as a secondary layer of health kind of like Iron Skin. 

Conditions would work like any others though more or less.