Catalysts And Formas Should Carry Over Into Dual Weapons

[DuWryght]

Big deal.  They're not going to go bankrupt.  Why should every single decision be made to maximize profits?  Why don't they start making decisions for the sake of the customer?  You do realize that will result in more profits in the long term, after all.

 

I wish DE would stop thinking like a business and start thinking more like gamers.  It seems like they don't even play their own game.

 

I'd be swapping catalysts too.  What's wrong with that?  Absolutely nothing.  They might lose out on a couple thousand dollars from the potato income, and I doubt it'll even be that much.  It won't throw them out on the street, and the gains from garnering player goodwill would make up for it.

 

 

You don't make a strong case from a business stand point. I don't know long you have frequented the interwebs, but I've seen maybe a good mmo come and go even prior to official release. There has to be a delicate balance of consumers and the profits they bring. DE has a cash cow (and I don't think it's pay to win, not even close). They are listening to their player base, but I don't think there are enough players thinking about them. All consumers want to the be companies to think about them, when they don't truly want to support the company financially.

 

Again, I've seen many a good mmo go under because the balance wasn't right. If a company knows they have a winning product, their end goal will be how much money can they get out of the consumers to then make a game they want to play. Put it to you like this, how much are you willing to shell out for a company to implement something you want? How long do you think a company will last catering a tight-fisted consumer base? Not long without donations or a subscription.

 

That said, I didn't expect such a discussion to abrupt from something this trivial. I honestly would never expect any game mechanic such as these catalyst to be recyclable (for free).

[Xana_Skullsunder]

If they did that, then they wouldn't gain cash.

 

They run a business, and were one of the pioneers of cash shops in beta products, I think they REALLY like the cash and fair play to them, we're really willing to pay.

 

There's a difference between running a business and screwing over your playerbase. I'd say this lands firmly in the latter area.

[HillsAndTheSea]

arent catalysts only like 2 dollars? is it really that hard to buy a new one? is it really that hard to trade for 20 platinum?

[Velmarshal]

I agree for the retention of catalysts when upgrading to dual weapons. Buuut, being able to extract catalysts is a nice notion, but it will never happen, heck look at plat prices, people have been whining about it since closed beta and all we got are RNG discounts which are getting rarer every time they add a new piece of junk or something equally insultingly useless to the login RNG. (been getting 2400xp for 30th rank stuff for months)

 

And about the 2$ for catalysts, yes that's relatively cheap (if we exclude the fact that there are more than 100 weps in the game and that you probably need to buy several slots as well).

 

But on the "running business/screwing customers" standpoint, just the fact that they are selling reserach weapons and warframes is enough to figure out where they stand. I mean 6000 oxium, goddamn it people.

On the other hand, Hawken devs apparently listened to customer feedback. >:D

Edited February 10, 2014 by Velmarshal

[NikolaiLev]

Giving this topic a well-deserved bump.

 

Amusingly, akstilettos were simply released in a dual only version.  I wonder if this will become the trend.

[fatpig84]

This has being suggested many times over but DE doesn't care so no lol.

[NikolaiLev]

This has being suggested many times over but DE doesn't care so no lol.

 

I really don't want this to be the case.  So I'm going to keep posting and assume they do care.

[sneakatone]

arent catalysts only like 2 dollars? is it really that hard to buy a new one? is it really that hard to trade for 20 platinum?

well if its just potato then it dosent matter, but the added forma makes it kinda annoying. Idk if I even want to build those akbroco primes after knowing things dont carry over.

Edited March 6, 2014 by sneakatone

[NikolaiLev]

well if its just potato then it dosent matter, but the added forma makes it kinda annoying. Idk if I even want to build those akbroco primes after knowing things dont carry over.

 

Potatoes are extremely valuable to me, I don't know about you.  Formas are easily acquireable through the void, and are just as obnoxious to craft as potatoes.

 

I'd still like to see this happen.  Including for dual weapons; if I choose to invest in a Kama and later want to get Dual Kamas, I don't want to be punished for that.

[Keltik0ne]

Hmm, now that they expect you to grind out 2 bronco primes (my current one is formad a bit), I'm kind of agreeing with the OP.

 

DE however, would "lose" money with such a change, so it wont happen.

[sneakatone]

Potatoes are extremely valuable to me, I don't know about you.  Formas are easily acquireable through the void, and are just as obnoxious to craft as potatoes.

 

I'd still like to see this happen.  Including for dual weapons; if I choose to invest in a Kama and later want to get Dual Kamas, I don't want to be punished for that.

once to think about it they are valuable. 

if only there is  a way to recycle the resources.

[Eyeless]

Glad to see this thread getting some more attention, as well as there being people in favor of us getting our Catalysts and Forma spent refunded.

 

In the end I think this is the fairest thing to do.

 

Those arguing that DE will lose money, well, let me say from my own experience, that if a game is good and the developers are awesome, listen to their players, have fun with the game they make and don't continually try to screw their players over and do extra things they won't necessarily profit from for the sake of their players, personally, I'll be much more inclined to support them with my own money.

 

Developers that do this are too few, and DE could learn a thing or two by going out of their way to limit player frustration and quit with shady !@#$ such as this.

 

I spent enough for the Hunter pack back when Warframe first got into Open Beta after playing this game for two months because DE still had my loyalty and I thought this game was going somewhere.

 

Admittedly they have been improving some things here and there, but it's the main things that have remain unchanged, and continuous cash grabs like this AKSecondary nonsense as well as Market Quality items being instituted as buyable Clantech that has me refusing to spend another dime on this game.

 

I know I'm not the only one.

[Lypiphera]

Lets be realistic, DE already provides us with a free catalyst or reactor nearly every 2 weeks, after the devstream. This does not include random alerts, invasions or log-in bonuses. In less than 8 months I have obtained, for free, 30 catalysts and 22 reactors. It worked out to 1 catalyst every 7.8 days and 1 reactor every 10.6 days, and I did not get them all. Formas, while a time consuming, are relatively easy to farm.

 

Also, these items are really only required at higher level play. Yes, they are great for use while leveling and completing the solar system, but are not necessary. They are great for quickly leveling the single version before making the dual version, but not required. There is also no need to potato every weapon/frame you have; again, it is nice but not required. By the time you hit higher level play, you should have a few of each and a good idea what frames and weapons you like to use. Given a bit of time, you should have a healthy selection of frames and weapons fully upgraded. If you really want more than you can always pay a couple of bucks.

 

That is not to say I don't sympathize with those that have heavily invested in the single variants prior to the release of the duals, or a prime version, but given a little bit of time you can farm more formas and there will always be a new catalyst/reactor alert down the road. I'm always hesitant of too heavily investing in a particular weapon only for it to be replaced in a couple weeks.

[NikolaiLev]

Hmm, now that they expect you to grind out 2 bronco primes (my current one is formad a bit), I'm kind of agreeing with the OP.

 

DE however, would "lose" money with such a change, so it wont happen.

 

Sadly.

 

Glad to see this thread getting some more attention, as well as there being people in favor of us getting our Catalysts and Forma spent refunded.

 

In the end I think this is the fairest thing to do.

 

Those arguing that DE will lose money, well, let me say from my own experience, that if a game is good and the developers are awesome, listen to their players, have fun with the game they make and don't continually try to screw their players over and do extra things they won't necessarily profit from for the sake of their players, personally, I'll be much more inclined to support them with my own money.

 

Developers that do this are too few, and DE could learn a thing or two by going out of their way to limit player frustration and quit with shady !@#$ such as this.

 

I spent enough for the Hunter pack back when Warframe first got into Open Beta after playing this game for two months because DE still had my loyalty and I thought this game was going somewhere.

 

Admittedly they have been improving some things here and there, but it's the main things that have remain unchanged, and continuous cash grabs like this AKSecondary nonsense as well as Market Quality items being instituted as buyable Clantech that has me refusing to spend another dime on this game.

 

I know I'm not the only one.

 

Well, let's hope more people agree with you and decide to voice their opinion.  Because I'm still not sure if DE is up to listening to their community about things that may make them lose a little money in exchange for a less grindy game.

 

Lets be realistic, DE already provides us with a free catalyst or reactor nearly every 2 weeks, after the devstream. This does not include random alerts, invasions or log-in bonuses. In less than 8 months I have obtained, for free, 30 catalysts and 22 reactors. It worked out to 1 catalyst every 7.8 days and 1 reactor every 10.6 days, and I did not get them all. Formas, while a time consuming, are relatively easy to farm.

 

Also, these items are really only required at higher level play. Yes, they are great for use while leveling and completing the solar system, but are not necessary. They are great for quickly leveling the single version before making the dual version, but not required. There is also no need to potato every weapon/frame you have; again, it is nice but not required. By the time you hit higher level play, you should have a few of each and a good idea what frames and weapons you like to use. Given a bit of time, you should have a healthy selection of frames and weapons fully upgraded. If you really want more than you can always pay a couple of bucks.

 

That is not to say I don't sympathize with those that have heavily invested in the single variants prior to the release of the duals, or a prime version, but given a little bit of time you can farm more formas and there will always be a new catalyst/reactor alert down the road. I'm always hesitant of too heavily investing in a particular weapon only for it to be replaced in a couple weeks.

 

I don't understand why "Let's be realistic" always equates to "Let's settle for DE being an uncaring company" all the time, and frankly, I don't think that's realistic.  It's just being permissive.  Player support is not an infinite resource; it has to be earned.  And when things like this go ignored, player support decreases.

 

If the answer to a problem is "You could always just spend more money" then it's a bad answer.

[Kartumterek]

It seems as though DE is insistent on dual weapons being completely superior weapons to regular weapons.

 

If this is going to be the case, then one should be able to craft a dual weapon that has the same upgrades as the single version, assuming that weapon was used in the crafting process.

 

This at least mitigates the frustration of having invested in a single sidearm only for a dual set to come out.

 

 

negative... thats like asking for the stuff to migrate over to a Prime version release. Potatoes and Forma are easily acquired and fairly inexpensive, this isnt 6 months ago when potatoing a weapon was actually a decision.

[NikolaiLev]

negative... thats like asking for the stuff to migrate over to a Prime version release. Potatoes and Forma are easily acquired and fairly inexpensive, this isnt 6 months ago when potatoing a weapon was actually a decision.

 

Can't say I agree.  Potatoes and forma are obnoxious to acquire and craft.  I really don't see why a player should be forced to lose such valuable resources.

[Nhat_Quang]

Can't say I agree.  Potatoes and forma are obnoxious to acquire and craft.  I really don't see why a player should be forced to lose such valuable resources.

 

they may be a bit of a pain to get but they are given out for FREE every so often and it's not going to kill anyone to wait a little bit to get a few right now i have about 6 or 7 still just collecting dust and i haven't even bought one yet. The thing with this is that literally everything that isn't cosmetics is obtainable for FREE can't we be happy that we get so much for nothing and just farm a bit, I for one don't mind losing the catalyst and forma if we get a new shiny upgrade as long as they don't hide more things behind a pay wall then I'll keep playing~   

[NikolaiLev]

they may be a bit of a pain to get but they are given out for FREE every so often and it's not going to kill anyone to wait a little bit to get a few right now i have about 6 or 7 still just collecting dust and i haven't even bought one yet. The thing with this is that literally everything that isn't cosmetics is obtainable for FREE can't we be happy that we get so much for nothing and just farm a bit, I for one don't mind losing the catalyst and forma if we get a new shiny upgrade as long as they don't hide more things behind a pay wall then I'll keep playing~   

 

Well, then it's just a difference of opinion.  Because I do mind.

 

I like weapon variety; I would not mind owning 90% of the weapons in the game so long as they're sufficiently distinct, and I cannot stand having to potato and forma them all just in case I feel like using them in anything beyond level 20.

[Eyeless]

negative... thats like asking for the stuff to migrate over to a Prime version release. Potatoes and Forma are easily acquired and fairly inexpensive, this isnt 6 months ago when potatoing a weapon was actually a decision.

 

Speak for yourself when you don't spend over $100 on a game and get in-game currency in spades because of it. You might have tons of Reactors and Catalysts but plenty of players have plenty of weapons and frames but either haven't been able to make every alert or have too many things they'd like to have 60 mod points on but can't because of limited supply. 

 

Think about the influx of new players we have coming into Warframe on a regular basis. The last thing they want is to spend their time grinding and acquiring mods for a secondary they like only for a dual version to come out that surpasses their own secondary in every way because they didn't know the rule of waiting until DE makes an AK for it. 

 

So when they make that decision to put a catalyst in a weapon the last thing they want is to feel cheated out of at least three forma and an entire Catalyst they have to wait maybe entire weeks for just to get a blueprint and wait another day to build. 

 

One might argue you could trade for the 20 plat it takes to buy them but with prime parts being tradable now no one cares if you have a full set of ammo mutations or a Hammershot when they could wait for someone to offer a full set of Rhino Prime parts instead because that's all trade chat cares about trading for, and the only thing trade chat /ever/ cared about since it was introduced was making platinum. 

 

Platinum and Prime Parts, two things that should never have been implemented as a trade good.

Edited March 19, 2014 by Hastur609

[Kartumterek]

Speak for yourself when you don't spend over $100 on a game and get in-game currency in spades because of it. You might have tons of Reactors and Catalysts but plenty of players have plenty of weapons and frames but either haven't been able to make every alert or have too many things they'd like to have 60 mod points on but can't because of limited supply. 

 

Think about the influx of new players we have coming into Warframe on a regular basis. The last thing they want is to spend their time grinding and acquiring mods for a secondary they like only for a dual version to come out that surpasses their own secondary in every way because they didn't know the rule of waiting until DE makes an AK for it. 

 

So when they make that decision to put a catalyst in a weapon the last thing they want is to feel cheated out of at least three forma and an entire Catalyst they have to wait maybe entire weeks for just to get a blueprint and wait another day to build. 

 

One might argue you could trade for the 20 plat it takes to buy them but with prime parts being tradable now no one cares if you have a full set of ammo mutations or a Hammershot when they could wait for someone to offer a full set of Rhino Prime parts instead because that's all trade chat cares about trading for, and the only thing trade chat /ever/ cared about since it was introduced was making platinum. 

 

Platinum and Prime Parts, two things that should never have been implemented as a trade good.

 

 

There will ALWAYS be new gear coming out. Are you never gonna forma and potato any of it and just wait for the bestest? You might need to have a high enough Mastery Rank to equip it one day you know. How are you wasting potatoes and forma if you are using the weapon?

 

Stop trying to carry over your 1 potato and formas for the Ultimate Sword of Doom.

[Nkomo-Sama]

Still. They should know how cheated players feel. We shouldn't have to hold onto our Formas and Catalysts out of fear of the impending AK variant. I for one would like to see Nikolai's idea implemented. 

 

On a side note...was anyone else completely caught off-guard by the Dual Cestras?

Of course you would.... But when the game is suddenly shutdown for not having enough funding then what? Where are your lovely weapons and game play then? Pay the money or TRADE. Why does no one realize the GIFT OF TRADING FOR PLATINUM? The sense of entitlement over this community is amazing. You love the free game? Support it every now and then...If we don't then DE is probably going to have to start getting creative with making their money and then we will really have something to complain about

[Phoenix86]

At least we should be able to revert from dual to single weapon without the need to craft a 3rd one and lvl it up again...

[Eyeless]

There will ALWAYS be new gear coming out. Are you never gonna forma and potato any of it and just wait for the bestest? You might need to have a high enough Mastery Rank to equip it one day you know. How are you wasting potatoes and forma if you are using the weapon?

 

Stop trying to carry over your 1 potato and formas for the Ultimate Sword of Doom.

 

That's not the point, nor should there be an 'Ultimate Sword of Doom' as all the top tier weapons should simply be alternatives to another rather than having one that makes all others pointless in the long run. 

 

The point is DE is getting into the habit of (mainly with secondaries) releasing one weapon, then releasing something that functions just like it (ie Grinlock < Marelok) but is superior in almost every way, usually in the form of an AK variant. 

 

You're wasting it because you're effectively gimping yourself for sticking to the inferior version, at least if you're big on stats. 

 

Of course you would.... But when the game is suddenly shutdown for not having enough funding then what? Where are your lovely weapons and game play then? Pay the money or TRADE. Why does no one realize the GIFT OF TRADING FOR PLATINUM? The sense of entitlement over this community is amazing. You love the free game? Support it every now and then...If we don't then DE is probably going to have to start getting creative with making their money and then we will really have something to complain about

 

Oh please, Catalysts and Reactors aren't where DE is getting all their revenue. Sure it makes up part of it, but I'm certain more of it is being spent on cosmetics/color packs and plat to trade for Prime parts. 

 

Being generous and allowing players to carry over Catalysts and Forma won't lose them too much money, hell if they were more willing to refund hours of level grinding like that then I'd be more inclined to spend more money on the game if it ever went anywhere beyond a hallway shooter with gimped loot drops. But that's for another topic. 

[Nkomo-Sama]

Oh please, Catalysts and Reactors aren't where DE is getting all their revenue. Sure it makes up part of it, but I'm certain more of it is being spent on cosmetics/color packs and plat to trade for Prime parts. 

 

Being generous and allowing players to carry over Catalysts and Forma won't lose them too much money, hell if they were more willing to refund hours of level grinding like that then I'd be more inclined to spend more money on the game if it ever went anywhere beyond a hallway shooter with gimped loot drops. But that's for another topic. 

Being able to trade something for plat was generous enough. I think you are being unreasonable at the very least. The system works. Your doing it wrong if you disagree.

[Phatose]

I vote no.

 

The fact of the matter is every weapon and every frame is subject to being outclassed by something in the next update all the time.  Or simply being nerfed to the point where something else is better. 

 

I've got a flux I potatoed and formaed.  It's been totally outclassed by the Synapse - a weapon which is functionally identical, but statistically superior.  This is pretty much the same as the Ak vs single situation.  But I'm not going to get a catalyst or forma back for that flux.  There's no reason someone who decides to upgrade to an Ak version deserves them either.

 

The fact that Ak versions share similar names doesn't make them any different.  MK1 Braton to Braton to Soma are all functionally the same weapon, with different stats.