The Exclusives Megathread (The Eternal Struggle Of Giving A Damn And Not Giving A Damn About Event Items)

[Mateus_ex_Machina]

So, I would like to start this discussion by saying that I merely wish to state my views and offer suggestions to the developers, while putting them out there for feedback and opinions from users.  I do not wish to start a flame war.  Please, do not get this topic banned on account of flaming.

 

Now, I have found out, recently after starting the game, that Founders recieved exclusive weapons and items.  This is fine, and sound business practice.  Also, there were exclusive weapons given away to people who participated in certain events.  Again, this is perfectly sound.  However, I noticed that some of these weapons, such as the Lato Prime and Vandal, the Skana Prime, as well as the other Vandal and Wraith weapons, had different, and in many ways superior, stats to their regular, unskinned counterparts.  Now, as we all know, pay-to-win is a problem that many free-to-play games wrestle with, and can be a games downfall.  Overall, this game has done a very good job of staying fair.  However, the Founder's package contains weapons that are not only different in stats, but actually better.  Further, these items are no longer available.  Event items, such as the Wraith variant weapons and the Snipetron Vandal, also have definitively better stats.  Speaking as a new player, the event and Founder items feel somewhat estranging.  If they were simple reskins that started with extra affinity and their own weapon slot, I'd be fine.  However, these items are more powerful, and giving them to Founders for money feels like selling power.  My modest proposal: make a new skin for the variants and release them as items available to all, though difficult to obtain.  Then, give the people who originally had the item a skin that matches the original.  That way, they would still have exclusive patterned items, but newer players wouldn't feel locked out of these more powerful variants.  Admittedly, trading may help aleviate the problem, giving old players who have tired of their variants a chance to trade with newer players, but this isn't a complete fix.  Another way would be to make the variants very rare login rewards of the highest tier.  They'd be hard to obtain, but it would be an equilizer for new players.

 

What do you guys think?  I invite all players to share their opinions on whether or not this system is fair and equitable, whether my solutions might work, and offer any solutions of their own.  If I could get feedback from a dev or mod, that would be wonderful.  If any of you know a dev or mod and could point them in this direction, I'd be very thankful.  It would be nice to know that my feedback actually reached someone important, whether my ideas were accepted or not.  Again, I would like this topic to not be closed on account of being a flame war, so please keep it civil.  My goal is healthy discusion, not rage, and the former cannot happen if the topic is closed.  Thank you.

[MCT360]

I think all event weapons and frames should either lose the mastery XP or give everyone that does not have weapon the XP from those weapons and frame.

seeing as people have been able to get more xp from items that are not avaible ingame anymore is simply not fair, thats the only problem i have with the items but he, who gives a f amiright

[Namacyst]

So, i would like to end this discussion in pointing to all the other threads about this thematic, some DEV livestreams with mentions about this and of course to prevent flaming that leads to nothing.. like always. Thank you.

[(PSN)Darkrai848]

*The Human Touch walks in to topic* "Flame On"

 

But in all seriousness the founders "exclusive" items are more power full versions of the weakest items in game, so its not pay to win.  Also DE said that the non-founder event items are most likely to make a return.

[Valiant]

Here we go again... Still wishing a Mod/Dev would finally post a sticky topic about this so these topics can stop popping up. 

 

Regardless of how 'hard they would be to obtain', Founder weapons should not be making a return. That would be DE breaking their word and an insult and slap in the face to those who obtained them, simply by principle. Even suggesting such is insulting to Founders as well. I don't say this because I'm a Founder but it's an honest truth. 

 

Event items? DE have already stated they will return at some point. 

Edited February 23, 2014 by Naith

[DJ_Redwire]

I'll start by saying if it has anything to do Founders gear, there will not be any alterations, additions, or re-releases of Excalibur Prime, Lato Prime, and Skana Prime. This is simply DE's stance and there is no changing that policy. 

 

 

But in all seriousness the founders "exclusive" items are more power full versions of the weakest items in game, so its not pay to win. 

 

Also, this^

 

However, the Vandal and Wraith weapons are subject to possible change. That being said of course, the Vandal and Wraith weapons can't really be considered 'pay2win' in any way because they weren't bought but earned.

[Wallace24]

there was a pretty similar topic that came up not long ago (I want to say within 12 hours), but it was less polite and understanding, more angered and inflammatory. anyhow, I'm glad prime items aren't just reskins and that they do have slight stat variations. it makes it so they aren't just trophies (though they largely are). even weapons are nice in that you only had to be around to get them, you didn't have to pay extra. but the items in the founders packages are bonuses for supporting warframe in its earlier days, not something everyone can obtain

 

I'd prefer if DE came out with new vandal/wraith weapons rather than recycling old ones if they decide to bring out a vandal/wraith weapon for an event reward. however, I'm actually alright with the brakk being re-released, since it's sort of the counterpart to the detron, and the detron is "readily" available

 

but if DE does decide to re-release exclusive items in another one-time event, then the people who come in after that will just have the same complaints people are making now. and because DE set the precedent of re-releasing weapons, then people will ask for them to re-release everything. I think it's best not to do that. but there are mods that DE had as event rewards that are now readily available (some nightmare mods, equilibrium, and a couple aura mods), it's just that people who did the event had them earlier. this is part of the reason we all suspect that prime chamber will be released again. maybe not readily available, but probably as another event reward

[Un1337ninj4]

You can't say that about the founder gear, lets face it. It's a Skana, and a Lato. Even with the buffed variants that's not doing anything to a level 50 Eggplant. The Excal is just fancier, no buff. 

 

That said the Vandal/Wraith Weapons are on rotation for future events (for the most part), and are grind based only. The only thing you have to buy that does any benefit other than time is fancy bits, fancy bits don't help skill, nor do they affect how many times your F2P buddy is gonna laugh as he rev's you. It just says you support the devs who have made a game where not only are there items you can only get through gameplay (FrostP, MagP, and all the other weapons released before Prime Access, and even then PAccess doesn't give you any buff, just a really good deal and a limited aesthetic.) 

[Dtexas]

Its fair the way it is currently. Yes some of the variants are better then their counterparts, but that by no means makes it a pay 2 win scenario. People were given the event variant weapons for participating and helping in the event. On the subject of founders, that is not pay 2 win AT ALL. While the founders items are better then the normal counterparts (by only a little but btw, not as much as you make it seem), there are weapons/frames in the game currently obtainable that far out perform the founder gear. The founder gear at this point is just a bonus to mastery points if anything.

 

DE has also already said that there is a chance old event items might be awarded again in future events, you just have to wait and see. Trading is a horrible idea for this because then it can become a pay 2 win scenario "pay me 2k plat for strun wraith" etc etc.  Not only that but trading will also ruin the whole point of them being exclusive weapons. If weapon trading happens (WHICH IT SHOULDN'T), exclusives should not be tradable.

[DJ_Redwire]

Also: source: 

[Ragewalker]

I don't know where this "pay to win" idea is coming from. The most powerful weapons are all currently obtainable in-game, you just need to work for them.
On the note of founders: Excal Prime is simply a skin, no different stats and Skana Prime isn't even as good as Cronus. 

[--.B.--Fr0stByt3-]

See, I understand your point in all you were saying, but the reason for these items being "Founder" items, is that the people who have been playing longer, or managed to buy them while they were still available, would have something to brag about. "I have so and so item and no one else can get it". That's something to be proud of. That they are slightly more powerful is no big issue either. There are plenty of extra powerful weapons in game to choose from, so much so that I barely even use any of my exclusive gear. I just put it on every now and then for show.

 

DE won't be releasing any of those items again because they were made exclusive for a reason. They want the people who could get them to have those bragging rights. If you notice as well, most items that get the special treatment aren't over powered weapons like the Penta, Soma, Kunai/despair, or any other insane damage items. Only the mid tier weapons have gotten that. That's to keep a relative balance to the game and make everything a viable option. The reality of the matter, the weapons will have a slight bonus compared to the regular item, but for the most part it's just a little reskin of a currently in game item. There really is no cause to feel like founders or owners of an exclusive item have a significant advantage over you. They just have an item that looks nicer because they were at the right place at the right time.

[--.B.--Fr0stByt3-]

I don't know where this "pay to win" idea is coming from. The most powerful weapons are all currently obtainable in-game, you just need to work for them.

On the note of founders: Excal Prime is simply a skin, no different stats and Skana Prime isn't even as good as Cronus. 

On the contrary, Excalibur Prime has a different polarity slot for one of it's mod slots, and it gains energy from orbs in the void. That's the only difference, but it's not just a reskin.

[Vargras]

Lato and Skana Prime are trash that are easily outclassed by several other non-Prime weapons.

[--.B.--Fr0stByt3-]

Lato and Skana Prime are trash that are easily outclassed by several other non-Prime weapons.

Let's face it, Skana in general is a pretty sh** tier weapon no matter what bonuses you give it. The Prime version just looks cool, but I've never seen it in game.

[Un1337ninj4]

I've seen it once, U8 and the guy had the full set on and going for T3 Def, he wanted to use it for "Grins and Giggles", he didn't last long...

 

@Fr0stByt, I didn't quote due to it being right below it.

Edited February 23, 2014 by un1337ninj4

[CapnFusterCluck]

The topic once again rises from the grave! 

 

I think we've been over this before. I'm not raging or anything, but I'm becoming a little annoyed by how many times this has come up. 

 

Founder's items are EXCLUSIVE. Yes, exclusive. They are never, ever, EVER going to be available again. That's what DE said and that's final. If DE did decide to bring it back... well... You might as well kiss the community of Founder's goodbye. 

 

Second, the Vandal/Wraith series is powerful, yes, but we barely even use them. I have almost all the weapons (I have Straith, WTV, Machete Wraith, Doomcannon [aka Snipetron Vandal]). Using the weapons become extremely boring because they are power creep and we want to use weapons that are fun. Like, take for example Jat Kittag. It's strong, but it has negatives. But we use it because it's a giant !@#^!#$^$# hammer. Phage looks freaking cool and Detron... We all want the shiny gun *strokes Detron*. 

 

Point is, you don't have to be disappointed in missing out on these weapons. They are powerful, but no one uses them because they become stale very easily. Hell, I haven't touched my Straith, or any of the event weapons since they day I maxed them. 

[OniDax]

There was a topic today (or late yesterday) that covered this same topic and was closed. So what do you think will happen to this topic?

 

Regardless, the Founders stuff really isn't much better than the originals. Haven't even seen anyone using the Founders stuff in-game.

[Kaokasalis]

Here we go again.....

[Paradoxity]

I ran xcal prime some, still do occasionally. It's not *that* bad in the medium class, but it's suffered some from power creep- the oberon is my go-to general use frame. Skana prime is meh, at best, and only lives in my inventory because I've got excess space and WoT taught me to not sell things like that, and longswords in general are pretty meh. 

 

as for exclusives, well, you know, I'd love to have a Braton vandal or Lato vandal, but that's just not in the cards, ya know? 

[LoGicMoTion]

Inb4 lock

[Sebastianx]

They're not really game changing, all of them are weak weapons as default, and if they're not like Snipetron, well...you can't even get the original Snipetron anymore, so it doesn't really matter for those who have the Vandal version(same goes for the Lato and Braton Vandal,they're so weak that 90% of the other weapons are better than them). Strun Wraith is the only one that's decently good enough to even matter.

[Mateus_ex_Machina]

All things considered, you guys make good arguments.  Making the Founder weapons reskins of the originals was just a suggestion, and I thank you for logically and rationally arguing against it, rather than just raging.  I was asking for feedback on an idea, and you have given it.  I get the idea of exclusive items, and I get that the founders deserve them.  It just rubs me the wrong way that they have access to a stat set which cannot be obtained at all by other players.  Note that, as far as my research indicates, the Lato Prime has the second highest fire rate of all semi-auto pistols, not counting akimbos, and the Skana Prime has decent stats.  I don't care about the appearance, just stats.  Would giving the founder weapons to everyone be a betrayal?  Yes, most certainly, and I don't debate this.  However, allowing players to obtain weapons with the same stats that aren't as flashy and lack the preinstalled orokin catalyst and polarity slots?  I'm not sure, I'll leave that to devs and founders.  I'd like to point out Firefall, a game which I did purchase a founder's pack for.  All of the founder's pack items were either purely cosmetic, utilitarian (such as character or army name reserves and in-game currency), or reskins of utility items.  The same goes for the Beta Crystite items, which could only be purchased with in game currency during the closed beta.  I don't see why the founders for this game needed better items as a bonus.  I'm okay with the event weapons being restricted to events, so long as everyone, at some point, gets a chance to earn them through repeat events, no matter how infrequent.  Are the founder weapons a form of buying power?  Not really.  Still, the weapons are different, and some might prefer the feel of them, but can't use them.  The exclusives just don't sit right with me, somehow.

 

I did see the previous topic on this subject.  However, that essentially reduced to a flame war, not a civil discussion.  I specifically asked that this be kept civil, and you have done so.  I did not want this topic banned as a flame war because I felt that it was something worth discussing in a rational and polite fashion.  Most of the arguments I've seen against my suggestions are fairly strong, and I'm willing to drop the issue.  I admit that the Lato Prime is quickly outclassed by the Bolto, and that the Skana Prime is far from the best.  You guys have won the debate in the most solid way possible: you got me to agree with you.

 

[SquirmyBurrito]

-snip-

 

Most of the exclusive weapons are actually pretty bad. The Lato and Skana are trash prime or not. The only other (current) exclusive worth mentioning is the Brakk, and that is most likely not going to remain exclusive. Now, please direct your attention to the other thousand and one versions of this thread that already exist.

[PoorCensored]

I'd like to see normal weapons remove for unknown reasons brought back, like Boar and Gorgon...