Founders Pack End-All According To De

[CandyDragon]

Mastery Advantage over other players.

How is this an advantage persay?

 

They paid for a frame and 2 weapons.

 

You can do the same, just not for that frame.

 

Anything beyond mastery 6 is just fluff.

[Paradoxity]

Wait, if mastery is such a big issue, what about the mastery from the removed weapons? Stuff like the snipertron, ether daggers, boar and Machete? I mean, that's 12k mastery right there, too, and it's 'exclusive' to the people that bought them before they were done away with, how come we aren't arguing about those coming back? Hell, DE hasn't even said they were exclusive, they just removed them, so there wouldn't be toes to step on over them!

 

Edit: ninjaed, kinda. Also added an additional point. 

Edited March 12, 2014 by Paradoxity

[Emeere]

How is this an advantage persay?

 

They paid for a frame and 2 weapons.

 

You can do the same, just not for that frame.

 

Anything beyond mastery 6 is just fluff.

For now, have you even been listening to what the DEvs are doing with Mastery and Focus?

[Yezzik]

Wait, if mastery is such a big issue, what about the mastery from the removed weapons? Stuff like the snipertron, ether daggers, boar and Machete? I mean, that's 12k mastery right there, too, and it's 'exclusive' to the people that bought them before they were done away with, how come we aren't arguing about those coming back? 

 

The devs mentioned a Disney Vault full of stuff that went away. Some of it might come back, but from what I've seen of this forum, the closed beta weapons are as much a danger zone as the Founders' gear.

And we did literally just mention that stuff. :P

[CandyDragon]

For now, have you even been listening to what the DEvs are doing with Mastery and Focus?

I've generally given up on listening to the devs till its implemented.

Otherwise i'd be waiting for a balanced frost and a toning down of nova still. Not that I think she needs it, but they have mentioned that a ton of times.

 

Just like melee 2.0 was already supposed to be out. :P. Not really on track just, I'll believe it when I see it when it comes to DE and what they actually say for game updates.

[PsychShaman]

Read all 9 pages, argument is going nowhere. When I was looking for a game to really get into about a year ago, I purposely looked into games that were in closed betas. That way I could start from the ground up, watch it grow, complain about changes, visit the "Back in my day" threads and laugh. I also did it so I can get all the exclusives and yes, even get a false sense of pride about the game I play and where I stand in it. If you start playing an MMO after some betas have ended, you just have to accept that you missed out on some exclusives. Exclusivity is not exactly a new concept to MMOs.

I do have some feels for the PS4 guys. Most console guys wouldn't have heard about Warframe before it was coming to the PS4. And on day one, they are already missing out on some exclusives. It's probably tough for DE as well since some Excal primes will be porting over to the PS4 soon. I'll leave that dilemna to DE, and just say no to new PC players. You should have stopped by earlier when you could have helped with, you know, the foundation of the game.

[Quovander]

I, personally, want Design Council access. While I can understand those precious Forum Avatar badges being 100% exclusive, never to return, to say Design Council access is equally unobtainable does in fact upset me.

Oh you want to be part of the design council? Well, the Founders Program included that so that DE could get feedback from the people that supported them during the CLOSED BETA.

Adding more people in the council defeats the purpose of its existence.

[PoorCensored]

Read all 9 pages, argument is going nowhere. When I was looking for a game to really get into about a year ago, I purposely looked into games that were in closed betas. That way I could start from the ground up, watch it grow, complain about changes, visit the "Back in my day" threads and laugh. I also did it so I can get all the exclusives and yes, even get a false sense of pride about the game I play and where I stand in it. If you start playing an MMO after some betas have ended, you just have to accept that you missed out on some exclusives. Exclusivity is not exactly a new concept to MMOs.I do have some feels for the PS4 guys. Most console guys wouldn't have heard about Warframe before it was coming to the PS4. And on day one, they are already missing out on some exclusives. It's probably tough for DE as well since some Excal primes will be porting over to the PS4 soon. I'll leave that dilemna to DE, and just say no to new PC players. You should have stopped by earlier when you could have helped with, you know, the foundation of the game.

All I have to say is that I was with Team Fortress 2 pretty close to the begining. And I know that exclusive items destroyed my enjoyment of the game and had a poisonous effect on certain segments of the player base.

I think DE is in a tough spot. They probably shouldn't go back on their word, but exclusive items create rifts in the player base, even the items are rereleased. Also, since a Prime Warframe was included, they can't really buff it like some people have been asking for, that all Primes get a significant boost over their non-prime versions.

They shouldn't have offered any exclusives in the first place.

Edited March 12, 2014 by PoorCensored

[CandyDragon]

Last I checked in regards to prime boosting is that they simply start with an extra polarity, and possibly different ones from their non prime counterparts. Its hardly a power difference.

[Beladric]

Nariala, Rhino Prime bucks the trend with a legitimate, if small, power increase (speed 1.0 instead of 0.9) that simply cannot be overcome by regular Rhino. If this becomes the norm, then all Prime Warframes will have to become more powerful then their normal counterparts in some way. This may well be a trial for something more drastic.

 

From that perspective, this potentially becomes about the Founder's having a form of pay to win. Its somewhat understandable arguing from there, since no person who mains Excalibur would ever be able to obtain the buffed version. The Skana and Lato Prime are lesser versions because, even if their more powerful then the Lato and the Skarna, both of those are close to the weakest equipment in the game anyway, and theirPrime versions aren't that much better. However, Excalibur is a actual Warframe, and I know he see's some high level use.

 

My opinion on this subjects been heard. I won't weigh in again, I'll just reiterate. I don't care that the Founder's got goodies, I just don't want to have to feel it impacts my ability to hit 100% completion. A way to remove the Founder's items (and otherwise unobtainable gear like the Lato Vandal) from the codex would be nice. That's really all I'm concerned with.

[quietcanary]

I'm a founder and i would like the founders gear made available. By that i mean a equal amount of money or more to become founders or as a special reward to be indoctrinated into the founders program. At the very least I believe every player who isnt a founder should get the weapon mastery for free.

[Padawelts]

It took all my energy to get enough money for Hunter, do I want them to re-release it? no. will I stop playing and cry about in the forums? no.

It's like selling games that don't work all the time, it's not illegal, just frowned upon. (in this case by Founders)

[LoGicMoTion]

It took all my energy to get enough money for Hunter, do I want them to re-release it? no. will I stop playing and cry about in the forums? no.

It's like selling games that don't work all the time, it's not illegal, just frowned upon. (in this case by Founders)

Eventually all you guys will quit anyway.

Than here comes the founder gear w00t!

[Padawelts]

Eventually all you guys will quit anyway.

Than here comes the founder gear w00t!

 

I stopped playing for a while, but I intend on staying for a while, so if they add it back. don't really care. I never bought Founder's for the stuff. I bought it cause DE deserves it.

Edited March 12, 2014 by Padawelts

[TimeStop]

Why the hell is this still being discussed? People don't want Excalibur/Lato/Skana Prime because they actually want to use them; people want them purely because they're exclusive. Nobody would actually use those items if it weren't for their vanity factor. Just look at how many people (That aren't new players) actually use Excalibur nowadays. Exclusives are exclusives.

 

If Founders items are really re-released into the Void, then for all fairness, Primed Chamber should be added into the common mod pool, and the exclusive Prime Access syandanas should be craftable in some way. All this talk about wanting the Founders items is pure jealousy speaking (Except for maybe Primed Chamber, since it's pretty much a requirement for a truly maxed out sniper build, but that's an argument for another day.).

 

When Brakk was re-released (Note how it was never even mentioned by DE to be exclusive), so many people just threw up a huge crapstorm all over the forums. I'd be willing to bet that many people who defended the Brakk's "exclusivity" also want the Founders' stuff to be re-released. In the end, it all boils down to jealously at others who have them.

 

I'll bring up an old argument for example. Back before the Snipetron was removed from the game, and still available for Credits in the shop, it was continually lambasted as one of the worst primary weapons in the game. It was virtually never used, and had the same status as weapons such as the Strun or Lex now. However, the moment it was removed, suddenly, SCORES of people threw up massive hissy fits, culminating in DE doing the Grineer Informer event. The motivation for this example and the current Founders argument is the same; people want these items not for their power or fun factor, but simply because due to their exclusivity, they make for nice vanity pieces.

 

On an ending note, for people who want Founders items released so badly, ask  yourselves this question=

If Excalibur Prime, Lato Prime, and Skana Prime were never exclusives, but were available in the Void since the days when Latron/Reaper/Frost Prime were still new, would you actually want them nearly as much as you do now?

 

Edit=Allow me to reword the above question. If Excalibur Prime, Lato Prime, and Skana Prime were never available in the Founders Packs, but were available in the Void since day one when Latron/Reaper/Frost Prime were still new, would you actually want them nearly as much as you do now?

This tenno gets it. Seriously, I almost went founder, I have a lato vandel, it sucks, dps on it sucks, same with braton, There's a reason I'd rather pick a level 30 seer with no potatoe over a level 30 lato vandel with a potatoe. Everyone' crying over cosmetics, and it's quite frankly, hilarious. I could care less that they re-release this, mainly because I will never touch excalibro, even less exclibro prime. but basically I'm just copying what this guy said. 

 

It's hilarious to watch the forums flood with QQ about cosmetics and non-obtainable founder's/closed beta items and I'm LAUGHING at the people saying 'well, they'll rerelease because of my opinion, baw.' When in fact, the items themselves suck horribly, it's a lame gold and white crappy cosmetic over excalibur, and there's no reason to even have any of them. All in all, DE needs to make a bot that auto-locks these threads as soon as the word "Founders pack" comes up.

 

Edit: Let me restate, I don't think founder's should get hung for what they did, which is found a game on a risk, RISK and hope that it would turn out better, did it? Yes, by god it did. And they risked, money real life money that could have vanished forever if WF had failed or not kicked off like it did. I applaud them for helping and doing what I almost did. I'm fine with it. But the people hamstrining founders and saying that they're greedy for risking money and time on a game... Uh, what?

Edited March 12, 2014 by TimeStop

[fatpig84]

Nothing to see here.

[Life_Bot]

The devs mentioned a Disney Vault full of stuff that went away. Some of it might come back, but from what I've seen of this forum, the closed beta weapons are as much a danger zone as the Founders' gear.

And we did literally just mention that stuff. :P

I hope they will give out the older event weapons (i'm looking at you snipertron vandal) from that vault of theirs 

[stpwncold]

I say screw the founders (me), keep Excal P, the exclusives, the plat and let me transfer my account to PS4 where all of my friends reside. I preordered PS4 and started playing Warframe on PC just because of the comments made by Steve at E3, etc. about the transfer. 

 

I just don't want to start from scratch. Myself and others have put way too much time and money into this game thinking that it would happen. I've stopped my spending on platinum about two months ago waiting on this. If anything it will boost the economy on PS4 by more folks buying plat to purchase what they want. Plus, PC is giving me carpal tunnel.

 

EDIT: go ahead and keep all the duplicate mods too!

Edited March 12, 2014 by stpwncold

[OriKlein]

To all who claim that this is about being fair and all that wannabe justice bullocks and who attempt at making Founders appear so bad and evil, here's a cookiecutter for you: I'm going to bend the hand of every founder to relent to founders being re-released, THE COST, however is that YOU, which to say that is anyone who ever posted about how unfair this is and that founders should be re-released, GET BANNED.

Well then, for the sake of the many, for the sake of what's right and moral, will you take the deal?

After all, this is all just a holistic, altruistic, argument, no?

This is not for YOUR PROFIT, to satisfy YOUR DESIRES.

For the greater good...

And now, we return to our regular scheduled INTP arguing down the non:

I'm just naive, I guess.

Naive to the definitive extent that you are being credulous; demonstrating lack of knowledge and wisdom in that which you speak of.

 

They're cosmetics. There is no reason to deny your fellow players these benefits

You are self contradicting. If they be mere cosmetic then how can they confer advantage?

 

, as well as the Mastery Ranks and other bonuses that come along with being a Founder. (Such as, when Focus comes out, Mastery Ranks play a specific role in that.)

We've been over this already long time ago.

Everyone will have sufficient items to reach Mastery 30 by the end. You're not missing out on any mastery.

Just like people reached Mastery 15 before me because they had few more vandals. Big woopie do.

Oh, look, a month later and we have several more weapons and, oh gasp, I am now Mastery 15 as well.

What other bonuses come along with being a founder?

The landmark? the council?

Sorry. No. Adjust.

Discounted platinum? You already have plenty of those offers whenever you get a login coupon or a Prime Access offer or whenever you buy the largest platinum pack (which comes with a deck of premium mods).

All of your arguments are invalid, subjective and rooted in the Id.

 

You're free to paint me as any picture you'd like, but do remember that the entire game benefits from players spending money. Instead of trying to look down on us as children... or... Vapid? Think of us as fellow potential investors. The price can stay the same, but exclusives are no way to run a business. Temporary deals, such as Prime Access are fine, but at least give the players a permanent opportunity to gain the bonuses enacted by purchasing it.

Wrong again. Exclusives are an excellent way to run a business.

Any goods-driven industry practices sale of exclusive goods at premium as highly profitable venture.

From fashion clothes&accessories to commissioned artworks and relics of history.

Exclusivity seeds high worth where there is none and provides with its owner a point of social status and pride, thereby ranking its price above any else.

And as you mentioned, you have plenty of opportunities to support DE's business and DE makes a mandate to keep providing new ones all the time.

I'm certain whomever didn't buy the previous Prime Access is cringing over the Misa Syandana. Tough luck.

If you care so much about the fiscal well-being of Warframe, then go buy some platinum instead of jumping up and down, waving in the air and hollering in my face.

Also, the entirety of this:

Answering in order of boldness:

1. it was a sold commodity, not a reward. It was purchased exclusivity. Re-releasing it is a violation of consumer rights as it was sold under that understanding.

2. If its cosmetic, then its irrelevant, its not a game changing feature that prevents you from enjoying the game itself. Its simply a tic box that you want to fill and are unable to.

Rather than begrudgingly ranting about something that clearly wont change. And avoiding the (extremely bad) attempts at demonizing founders for wanting to keep their paid exclusivity. You should consider investing that time in the game you clearly enjoy enough to rant about.

"Deep seeded Lore"

We have less than 5 paragraphs of information pertaining to warframe lore. Its not that deep. Its Lucas'd up (george lucas), ambiguity and mystery allows speculation which masks the lack of actual lore. Players are generating more fan theory than there is actual lore in game currently. Know the difference before you assume its that deep.

Calling it a donation is cute, but its never been a donation.

Even the founders pack was simply a way to boost revenue and recieve goods in return. You never "donated" to the game, you supported it with your buisness.

Sorry you missed out on it, but thats just the way it is.

I, personally, want Design Council access. While I can understand those precious Forum Avatar badges being 100% exclusive, never to return, to say Design Council access is equally unobtainable does in fact upset me.

Oh you want to be part of the design council? Well, the Founders Program included that so that DE could get feedback from the people that supported them during the CLOSED BETA.

Adding more people in the council defeats the purpose of its existence.

Actually, they do periodically pick people to be invited into it per criteria that was set by current members/founders.

So he could get in, in theory. Assuming he's a contributing member of the community and demonstrates knowledge of the game.

Of course, in his case...

Best Regards,

And if I may say so myself:

Edited March 12, 2014 by OriKlein

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

To go in depth. First, I said time and again they they need to release Founders pack on PS4. What they did there was dumb and harmful move.

Now, speaking of PC, while it can be justified to a degree to never release Founders pack again, it's incredibly bad for the game's future and profit. See, Founders pack contains core items from both warframe and weapon sets. So without it you can't complete the item collection/codex. Which is a major deterrent for people who are willing to invest in the game massively. F2P games rely on a steady supply of whales, players who will dump massive amounts of money in them. This helps keep game alive and open to massive numbers of players for free.

Basically, Founders pack never returning is a way to alienate future whales. That's not what you EVER want.

So, you can resolve the issue in multiple ways. They will probably allow purchasing of Founders pack again though - after all, they only promised that items are Founders pack exclusive. They never gave up their right to sell Founders pack as they seem fit/when they seem fit.

Honestly, who is against selling Founder pack again? Trolls? Certainly sounds like it.

 

P.S. And no, F2P games don't survive on people spending $15 or 20, they survive on small percentage of people whi invest hundreds of $$$ and keep buying stuff.

[CandyDragon]

P.S. And no, F2P games don't survive on people spending $15 or 20, they survive on small percentage of people whi invest hundreds of $$$ and keep buying stuff.

Thats really just an assumption. Since DE is very heavy on nickel and dime tactics.

Not all free to plays operate on that rule.

And you can't tell me that simply because you can't buy excal prime that they are suffering. Thanks to prime access and all. Rather than stirring up a storm about going against their own word, they just have to continue releasing prime packs every so often to generate that same, if not greater revenue for the "new shiny"

Also those people who invest hundreds, are a small fraction of the community. and Within that fraction is an even lower number of people who missed the excal prime pack. So, the projected "loss" isn't as drastic as you make it appear to be.

Edited March 12, 2014 by Nariala

[Konmatic]

I would get the founders pack because when I started to play I did not have the money to support them. Now almost a year later I can I would love to invest in this game. ;)

[Seox]

They will probably allow purchasing of Founders pack again though - after all, they only promised that items are Founders pack exclusive. They never gave up their right to sell Founders pack as they seem fit/when they seem fit.

 

What is with all of these people who want/expect a "corrupted wish" outcome? Everybody knows why that's a load and knows that "well it's not TECHNICALLY what they said" IS technically lying.

 

I just don't get how people can suggest making a second "prime skin" and labeling the original a "founder's prime skin", then saying "well, DE never said they couldn't do that..." We all know that's a stupid way to get around those limitations and that you're being just as dishonest in doing something like that. DE's more loyal than that.

[Tsukinoki]

@(PS4)Lord_Gremlin

Except for the part of the founders pack that said:

Being a Founder has its privileges. Snag exclusive items that will never be available again!

(emphasis mine)

Ok, they re-release the founders pack (perfectly legit nothing against that), but if they do it with the same items they are breaking the terms of sale that they set up (which would allow certain jurisdictions to bring them to court or get full refunds and all that) because they would be making the items available again.

The language that they used is quite explicit that they wont be bringing back the founders gear ever again, that means that even if they re-opened founders they would need different gear.

EDIT:

The quoted text comes directly off of the image they used on the founders page when it was available. They explicitly said that the items would never be coming back. I would very much prefer that DE doesn't go back on their word and break a promise to the people that were willing to support them when the game needed it most.

Also there really is no way they can legally wiggle their way out of it with how explicitly they stated that it will never be available again.

You can see the image and stuff on the waybackmachine here: http://web.archive.org/web/20130921195122/https://warframe.com/founders

Edited March 12, 2014 by Tsukinoki

[OriKlein]

[rephrasing] Hi, it's me again! And me me me me me me me me me meme me memem e meme me me mem em em em emm me m em me me me me! So gimme the founders gear even though I don't really deserve, want or need it, because, console! OR ELSE! [/rephrasing]

also

Edited March 12, 2014 by OriKlein