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Why Founders Pack Exclusivity Is Hard To Defend

Sniperoth

By Sniperoth,
in General Discussion

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Kalenath

Kalenath

Posted
Posted (edited)

When the founders program began back in open beta, there was a total of one tileset(corpus ship), a fistful of enemy types, and less than half as many weapons and warframes as we do now. Bugs were everywhere (flying cargo crates anyone?) and this was all run by an independent developer.

That's right, Digital Extremes has NO parent company to support it. So in the case Warframe had crash and burned, Founder money would have evaporated.

So no, don't say all founders had a safe deal.

 

They don't care. They want. they demand. They scream and whine. When others whine back in mock, they cry. When others try to find reasoned arguments, they insult. When others insult, they run away like all good bullies only to slink back out when they think anyone strong enough to argue with them has gone away.

 

This thread is not about truth. This thread is about wants. People feel cheated, so they are demanding things they haven't earned.

 

Arguments have been raised, debated and settled in the course of this thread. The items are not coming back. But many don't care. They still want them and to hell with the consequences. After all, if DE falters from lack of support, they will just go find another game to mess up. Not their problem.

 

Edited by Kalenath
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Wahooo

Wahooo

Posted
Posted

How is this still going?

 

to qualify I am not a founder at any level.  Maybe the only reason I actually play warframe is to slowly gather weapons and frames.

 

Knowing that there are items out there I can't have because they were exclusive to a group at one time?  I'm ok with that.

 

Exclusive items for supporting a game in its early phase has become kinda common, but the biggest slap in the face in a lot of games is giving away crap that will never be seen/used or useful for spending a fairly sizable chunk of cash.

 

One of the worst IMO?  SWTOR.  yeah a yellow crystal that is obsolete after a couple hours of play.

One of the best for me personally?  Global Agenda.  I can still log in and the 6 other people playing that game can see my Elf helm and ask me about it, and I can say 'Beta'.

 

Trying to make this an issue about mastery doesn't hold any water at all because after R8 for the weapons or R10 for the extractors mastery doesn't mean anything.  You don't even need to have an exclusive or any prime weapon/frame to reach R10.  There is no advantage to having it other than to be able to say "yeah man I was there.  I was there and I supported DE when this game was in its infancy".

 

To me that means something.  And having a couple weapons and a frame stay exclusive to those people is pretty cool.  It makes me wish I had spent the money waaay back then.  But I didn't and I live with that, BUT I accept it and move on, just like this thread should.

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Kartumterek

Kartumterek

Posted
Posted

Since they're "only cosmetics" as several seem to say, just make them all skins and prime the gear again. Then the e-peen wagglers can have their 'thing that no one else has' and the anti-exclusive activists can have complete their pokedex. 

 

 

Yeah, hate to tell you this, but you didn't EARN anything. You bought something. Funny thing is, tons of people like you that think they 'earned' founder items by buying them also got upset when people didn't 'earn' their prime parts because they could buy them when prime part trading came out. You're not special, you didn't achieve anything. You just exchanged cash for goods like every other consumer out there.

 

I did what I was supposed to, when I was supposed to. You did not. People like you love to create all of this artificial drama over the fact that YOU are the one with the failing. The reason is irrelevant. You had X amount of time to do something, you did not, it is no longer available. Whether you were broke, on the incorrect gaming platform, broke, not playing at the time, broke, didnt know about it, broke, whatever the reason is it doesnt matter.

 

Never seen so many entitled WHINERS in a game before. If you didnt do what you were supposed to do or if something was offered and made no longer available before you even started playing, how exactly have you been wronged? If I was a PS4 playa I would be Mastery Rank 15 just like I am right now, minus a Warframe, 2 weapons, and some other associated items. Id be ok with that, just like I am ok with not having Lato Vandal and Braton Vandal. Why? I DIDNT EARN THEM.

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Ionus

Ionus

Posted
Posted

They don't care. They want. they demand. They scream and whine. When others whine back in mock, they cry. When others try to find reasoned arguments, they insult. When others insult, they run away like all good bullies only to slink back out when they think anyone strong enough to argue with them has gone away.

 

This thread is not about truth. This thread is about wants. People feel cheated, so they are demanding things they haven't earned.

 

Arguments have been raised, debated and settled in the course of this thread. The items are not coming back. But many don't care. They still want them and to hell with the consequences. After all, if DE falters from lack of support, they will just go find another game to mess up. Not their problem.

 

tumblr_inline_mi5mqhyoTR1qhi2pz.gif

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dashashou

dashashou

Posted
Posted (edited)

U forget the golden rule of DE , we do what we want. U think ember players wanted to loose overheat , and gain accelerate . Who really  believes that raids where unpopular ( every one i knew at the time loved them ) .  

 

Is it likely that DE will  eventually release all the primes ... sadly very  that why methinks there's soo much hate on the founders side they know it's coming

 

De isn't a person it's a corporation  and corporate loyalty will always be one sided .     

Edited by Ravel7
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ChameleonDude

ChameleonDude

Posted
Posted

U forget the golden rule of DE , we do what we want. U think ember players wanted to loose overheat , and gain accelerate . Who really  believes that raids where unpopular ( every one i knew at the time loved them ) .  

 

Is it likely that DE will  eventually release all the primes ... sadly very  that why methinks there's soo much hate on the founders side they know it's coming

 

De isn't a person it's a corporation  and corporate loyalty will always be one sided .     

 

Overheat wasn't removed because DE are evil. Its first incarnation was plain overpowered, and the dps versions which followed were awful.

 

Raids weren't removed because they were unpopular, they were removed because they were just being rushed with no actual gameplay.

 

But, on topic... if they think it's a good idea to annoy the people who contribute to the game, so be it. I don't see these items being re-released though.

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DJ_Redwire

DJ_Redwire

Posted
Posted (edited)

U forget the golden rule of DE , we do what we want. U think ember players wanted to loose overheat , and gain accelerate . Who really  believes that raids where unpopular ( every one i knew at the time loved them ) .  

 

Is it likely that DE will  eventually release all the primes ... sadly very  that why methinks there's soo much hate on the founders side they know it's coming

 

De isn't a person it's a corporation  and corporate loyalty will always be one sided .     

 

You're comparing game balancing issues to Founders exclusives? ...Really? 

 

No, it's not likely. That's why methinks there is so much hate on the non-founders side because they know it isn't.

 

However, here's where you're correct:

DE is most certainly not a person, and most certainly is a corporation - and their loyalty will most likely always be one sided. That loyalty rests with the ones who have collectively dropped tens of thousands of dollars into their product. 

 

Next please.

Edited by DJ_Redwire
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Kalenath

Kalenath

Posted
Posted (edited)

 

<snip>

 

 

 

 

It's the exact same thing. Everyone laughs at Wile E Coyote because he keeps failing.

 

People keep demanding the exact same thing despite being told officially that it isn't going to happen. Because they can. Because it makes them feel big and strong and tough to scream and yell and insult people on an internet forum. Epic F***ing fail every single time. Over and over and over again. But, like Wiley, they keep getting up and doing it again.

 

So yes, I am GOING to keep posting Roadrunner and Coyote clips until DE locks this.

 

That makes FAR more sense than the whiners. At least Wiley wasn't always quite so self entitled and special. (only when he goes after Bugs... I will save that clip.)

Edited by Kalenath
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CandyDragon

CandyDragon

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Posted

So yes, I am GOING to keep posting Roadrunner and Coyote clips until DE locks this.

 

That makes FAR more sense than the whiners. At least Wiley wasn't always quite so self entitled and special. (only when he goes after Bugs... I will save that clip.)

Its likely this thread is left open to become a catch all for the toxic behavior that this topic attracts.

 Easier to let one stay open than to have to constantly close repeat threads of verbal temper tantrums.

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OniDax

OniDax

Posted
Posted

Its just a Good topic but i have nothing more to say about it.

 

No, it's a bad topic because it's discussing something that won't happen. I say mods need to start closing all of these topics because they're pointless. If people keep putting up these topics, then start reprimanding those who do. Repeat offenders face more serious punishment. IF DE decides later on to change their mind, they'll do so without this petty discussion.

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Kalenath

Kalenath

Posted
Posted

Its likely this thread is left open to become a catch all for the toxic behavior that this topic attracts.

 Easier to let one stay open than to have to constantly close repeat threads of verbal temper tantrums.

 

Probably. Which is why I am hoarding old cartoon clips.

 

We all need laughs to stave off the OMGWTFDIDHESAYNOW?????

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Zerrien

Zerrien

Posted
Posted (edited)
1. There are some prime frames with buffs over their original counterparts

 

This is true, currently. Rhino Prime has a tangible, visible difference over Rhino.

 

2. All prime frames must be consistent

 

This is a fundamental gameplay element. This is something that echos in various other disciplines, including game design. If one thing is one way, similar things must react the same way. If a Prime frame is better than another frame, then, I, as a player, expect all other Primes to be better, in some way.

 

(And the inverse, if a Prime is strictly cosmetic, then, I expect them all to be cosmetic. However, this isn't the case, currently, as all Primes give Mastery, which has several gameplay elements as well as a major upcoming one, where Mastery directly plays into a player's power through Focus. A player who has played since the start, been given all the exclusives, and bought all the exclusives as they came out, has a clear advantage over others. Even if, it isn't noticeable right now.)

 

3. It would be wrong to make a superior frame exclusive

 

If said exclusive frame is locked behind an exclusive, paywall. That's called 'pay to win' or, giving advantages to players who are willing to pay, over those who are unwilling to pay. (This is a bad thing in the eyes of the consumers.) This is also the reason Excalibur cannot be buffed.

 

4. We cannot make the exclusive content free to all

 

Uh, what? Not sure what you mean here. I'm not really arguing this.

 

5. We should make a duplicate of the exclusive content

 

In the other person's proposal, (and mine, earlier,) is that to upgrade Excalibur Prime, there must be something out there that we can obtain that fills Excalibur Prime's role. The point is NOT to release Excalibur/Lato/Skana Prime with the exact same graphics. Replace all the gold with black, make an entirely new model, something. But, those who supported can keep their Excalibur Prime, while players who arrived later can have the benefits of an Excalibur Prime, under a different name. This fixes the design issue, and since it's fundamentally the same as Excalibur Prime, Mastery Points are equivalent, (as in, the highest level of Excalibur Prime or Excalibur Beta is taken into account for Mastery calculation.)

 

To be 'mad' or 'angry' that people get a gameplay copy of your content is... Not a sane attitude. You retain the Prime skin, you keep the badges, etc. But, to expect a gameplay bonus over those who don't and CANNOT obtain your toys. If you went into supporting DE for the purposes of exclusive OP items, then you bought Founder's Pack for the wrong reason.

 

Quick edit, hopefully before anyone's read: I would ASSUME this is all going to come, in time, anyways. Right? A balance pass needs to be done, so, I assume that there is going to be a balance pass over whether or not Prime are superior or not. (Of course, this could simply be a morbid fantasy, and DE thinks it's okay to have Regular Mag Prime and Buff Rhino Prime.)

Edited by Zerrien
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Yezzik

Yezzik

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Posted

Mastery Points are equivalent

 

This would be a good idea even if it were just used to help tidy up the list of available weapons and frames. Lots of things could be combined with their counterparts--Primes, Vandals and Wraiths as skins for their normal variants, and even AK/Dual weapons as alternate options for their singular versions.

 

If that happened, then as far as I can tell only three things would need to be made available to players once again in order to completely equalise the amount of available Mastery between all players--the Machete, the Snipetron and the Ether Daggers.

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Zerrien

Zerrien

Posted
Posted

This would be a good idea even if it were just used to help tidy up the list of available weapons and frames. Lots of things could be combined with their counterparts--Primes, Vandals and Wraiths as skins for their normal variants, and even AK/Dual weapons as alternate options for their singular versions.

 

If that happened, then as far as I can tell only three things would need to be made available to players once again in order to completely equalise the amount of available Mastery between all players--the Machete, the Snipetron and the Ether Daggers.

 

This plays into another suggestion of mine. Make Prime versions... just skins, or 'archetypes.' Remove Mastery Points from re-leveling the exact same frame with pre-installed mastery slots. If Burston Prime shot fully automatic projectiles, instead of 3-round burst hitscan? Sure, relevel mastery. But they're essentially the same weapon/warframe.

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