Ember's Fire Blast Is Bad. Let's Replace It

[spiralmenace]

Backdraft, 50 nrg

Ember jets backwards several meters, dealing light (5%?) fire damage w/ 100% fire proc to targets in front of her.

i feel like this would fit into ember's supposed skirmisher role a lot better

 

rename backdraft helm because nobody likes it. cinder or whatever

[RibbonRobbin]

I thought all her moves already have 100% Fire proc rate...

[MagPrime]

I like her Fireblast ability, but I like this idea as well.  Maybe replace Accelerant with Backdraft? 

[spiralmenace]

I like her Fireblast ability, but I like this idea as well.  Maybe replace Accelerant with Backdraft? 

HAHAHA no

accelerant is fantastic crowd control and good as a team buff (providing you're not the only one with fire damage)

let's not replace ember's second best power, thanks

[MagPrime]

Got Fireblast mixed up with Fireball.

 

Not a fan of that Ring of Fire, WoF does a better job on a larger scale. 

[Riasiru]

HAHAHA no

accelerant is fantastic crowd control and good as a team buff (providing you're not the only one with fire damage)

let's not replace ember's second best power, thanks

 

I'll second that notion. Probably one of the best CCs around if you max the range and energy efficiency. 

 

Edit: Notice I said "one of the" and not "the best." Nova, Rhino, Nyx, et cetera fans need not get in a hissy.

Edited March 20, 2014 by Riasiru

[weownthesky]

I wish Fire blast basically did what the new Fire Leaders skill does, a big ol' circular knock back with a wave of fire consuming the area.

[Jin_Lightning]

Backdraft, 50 nrg

Ember jets backwards several meters, dealing light (5%?) fire damage w/ 100% fire proc to targets in front of her.

i feel like this would fit into ember's supposed skirmisher role a lot better

 

rename backdraft helm because nobody likes it. cinder or whatever

I really like this idea, but I think it should be a gap closer, rather than a retreat option. Accelerant could be used to stun then retreat.

 

As for Fire Blast, someone had the idea of integrating it into Fireball. When Fireball impacts, it creates a Fire Blast.

 

-Jin

[RealPandemonium]

I say make Fire Blast more satisfying to use (knockback, proc chance, new graphic, something to make it feel good to use to the player,) then add the old Overheat effect to Ember only when she is standing inside the circle.  This will preserve some of Ember's old gameplay while preserving the current state of Fire Blast for those who currently like it.  Making the move satisfying to the player is paramount, restoring overheat in some way will make Ember more like her old incarnation (opening up a more "brawler"ish playstyle and bring back the sweet overheat graphic)  but with a limit that adds gameplay.

[spiralmenace]

snip

yeah but the thing is, we already have "stand around and defend this spot" frames. why not let ember be something new and interesting?

a movement power would fit into her kit almost seamlessly with its current structure :l

[OvAeons]

fireball with increased power strength and cast speed is the way to go! spam those 'splodey balls!!

[spiralmenace]

bump b/c i'd really like more thoughts on this

[DarknightK]

I posted this on Archwizard's Abilities Tweaks thread, but this seems a more fitting place to do so.

 

2) Replace Fire Blast with Fire Bird which propels Ember forward while giving her some damage reduction and movement speed increase for a short period of time after the boost. It's basically a Fiery Slash-Dash (that allows you to actually phase through enemies) that adds damage reduction (not as much as Overheat, but about half of that) and adds a teeny bit of movement speed to Ember. Combined with Accelerant and World on Fire, this ability would really up Ember's mobility while keeping her damage potential high. Fast mobility with hit-and-run tactics.

 

So basically, it shoots Ember forwards instead of backwards and allows her to phase through enemies (something I believe Slash Dash should have as well). After dashing, Ember gains "molten armor" around her which works simiarly to Overheat, but only provides a minor damage reduction that cannot be increased by strength mods as well as a small speed boost (with fire particle FX yaaaaaaaaay).

 

WoF already does everything Fire Blast does and more. Firebird would be a great addition to Ember's arsenal in terms of mobility, which she is definitely designed for.

 

(and yes, I ripped this from inFamous 2. To be frank it was my favorite ability in the game).

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5cI-6ZgO9U

[Edgedemon]

talking about fire blast is it just me or if an enemy pass the circle it gets no more damage? considering how the whole area seems to be burning that makes little sense to me

[Psychosist]

I really like this idea, but I think it should be a gap closer, rather than a retreat option. Accelerant could be used to stun then retreat.

 

As for Fire Blast, someone had the idea of integrating it into Fireball. When Fireball impacts, it creates a Fire Blast.

 

-Jin

^

I'm also okay with WoF being blended with post-nerf Overheat (40% damage reduction for entire duration).

[spiralmenace]

talking about fire blast is it just me or if an enemy pass the circle it gets no more damage? considering how the whole area seems to be burning that makes little sense to me

enemies only take damage from fire blast if they're standing in the ring. there's no effect if they're in the center

it's just a really poorly designed power

[MegpoidBeetle]

I wish Fire blast basically did what the new Fire Leaders skill does, a big ol' circular knock back with a wave of fire consuming the area.

this

[Xana_Skullsunder]

If anything, I'd ditch WoF. If you run her with Fleeting Expertise + Blind Rage (and Focus/Streamline), she can deal more damage more quickly by combining Fireball and Fire Blast with accelerant.

 

*math for proof, numbers/info taken from wiki*

 

90% eff between FE/Streamline, - 55% eff from maxed BR = 35% eff

 

 

Fireball built for damage -> 916 initial damage, 343 AoE

Fire Blast '                     ' -> 343 initial damage, and per tick in on the circle

Accelerant '                    ' -> multiplier of 5.725

 

so Accel -> Fireball  = 916 * 5.725 = 5244 damage single target damage, 1963 AoE damage, for ~49 energy (75 * .65) 

Accel -> Fire Blast = 343 * 5.725 = 1963 instant damage to everything within 15 m, for ~82 energy (125 * .65)

Fire Ball and Fire Blast also have guaranteed procs on impact, which adds another 50% of that damage over time.

And in both cases, you have enemies that the second attack didn't hit still stunned by Accelerant, allowing you to attack or retreat as needed.

 

A standard WoF does either 4000 (400 * 10 seconds) or ~8000-18000 (I think the wiki math is for the first one is using her old ult, so I made a guess for the new damage based on the described mechanics of the new one) for 100 energy, but it's hindered by needing to keep the enemy in range, and taking 10 seconds to acheive that damage. WoF also doesn't gel with Accelerant nearly as well as her other 2 skills, requiring frequent recasts for the enemies to continue taking that amplified damage. There's also the casting time of over 2 seconds, while her other skills are fairly quick. Speed is important for Ember, especially considering she's not as tanky as she used to be.

 

TL;DR- As cool as WoF looks, it doesn't fit very well with her style, which is damaging/stunning enemies rapidly, to make up for her lacking defense. Additionally, considering that fighting Infested is her intended niche, a mobility move would be a very useful addition, particularly when WoF starts to falter as a damage dealer. She needs moves that do more than straight damage, because ability damage is one of the worst-scaling things in this game.

[Toom1275]

Why not replace it with the "nova blast" the fire leaders and Ruk get to do, but we can't (for now)?

[Edgedemon]

TL;DR- As cool as WoF looks, it doesn't fit very well with her style, which is damaging/stunning enemies rapidly, to make up for her lacking defense. Additionally, considering that fighting Infested is her intended niche, a mobility move would be a very useful addition, particularly when WoF starts to falter as a damage dealer. She needs moves that do more than straight damage, because ability damage is one of the worst-scaling things in this game.

 

you haven't turned WoF on and ran pass a group of enemies i see, to remove the attack that follows you around in the name of mobility seems flawed logic to me

[escape123]

Maybe ember leaves a trail of fire where she walks, just like the Batrider in Dota2

[Sea_Wall]

I vote for Overheat. 

[Bibliothekar]

So basically, it shoots Ember forwards instead of backwards

I'd prefer this, as I'm running forwards most of the time, and I prefer to see where I'm going. Backdraft demands that you make sure there is no box, wall, whatever behind you, where you might get stuck, before you can use the ability. So if you get into a situation, where you really need it as a means of escape, you have to do a full 360° turn first. Not very practical.

[kscott190]

I always thought it was weird it's called Fireblast instead of Firewall or Ring of Fire

[Racercowboy]

I don't think fire blast needs to be replaced, just tweaked. The underlying problem as I see it is it has a DoT part that does a lot of damage over the duration, but since the area where it hits things is so small (the ring) nothing ever takes real damage from it. If it were made so it could actually hit stuff reliably (*cough* hit in the whole area and be affected by range mods *cough*) it would be far better than it is now.