Marshall Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 On 3/21/2014 at 2:53 AM, Archwizard said: In a perfect world, all Warframes would be competent at their role on their own @Archwizard Is that a reference to the acquisition of shares by Perfect World in 2014? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealPandemonium Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 53 minutes ago, TRSS said: @Archwizard Is that a reference to the acquisition of shares by Perfect World in 2014? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 6 minutes ago, RealPandemonium said: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealPandemonium Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 1 hour ago, TRSS said: Touche, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnccs215 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 (edited) On 16/08/2016 at 6:09 AM, Archwizard said: ... is there a specific one I'm supposed to look at amongst the many used by people over the course of the recent discussions, or did you not intend to put the literal entirety of your post in one...? crap, edited it 3 times so that it wouldn't. Only the quick overview was supposed to be in the spoiler tab, everything else was meant to be outside of it. On 16/08/2016 at 6:09 AM, Archwizard said: Seems a bit conflicting, no? Wouldn't call it as much conflicting as I would call it overlapping. Having an initial healing wave with no range limitation is beneficial for a "close to enemies" support frame, for obvious reasons. The Dome, on another hand, is a somewhat different matter. It benefits proximity to allies, yes, in the matter that they have to travel less to get there. However, it also does not require immediate proximity to allies, allowing some distance between Equinox and them. We can already see that with Inaros ultimate: He is definitely not a close to allies frame. Yet his ultimate is a very interesting ally support ability that, in mind opinion, does it job well (enough). On 16/08/2016 at 6:09 AM, Archwizard said: I disagree with an effect like World on Fire always being active because it means your abilities are fighting for you. P&P are just auras that provide buffs; you still have to act on them independently. Oh yes, fully agree with you. Didnt even consider putting WoF in the same basket as P&P, sorry for my lack of clarification. On 16/08/2016 at 6:09 AM, Archwizard said: Funny thing is, I would have agreed with giving Pacify a slow... before we all agreed that it should have some Duration to affect its efficiency over time. If the effect's cost scaled with the rate at which enemies attacked (as written in the OP), it would make absolute perfect sense for the effect to slow enemies (and for the player to spam Rest where possible) to increase that efficiency. Now though, it would just be a matter of folding the augment into the base effect. Well... My predilection for an added Slow effect is simply to use it as an extra protection for Equinox-- ence the effect falling off over distance. It would be an additional flavour, an utility effect that would affect the battlefield more beyond altering some numbers. Not to mention how I think the current augment needs a complete rework. Maybe it's just me valuing personal taste above all else, but taking its nomenclature and its lack of general utility, I think it would be a good addition. On 16/08/2016 at 6:09 AM, Archwizard said: As I said before though, in my opinion, Provoke is already one of the more interesting abilities in Equinox' kit simply because its mindset comes from a completely different paradigm than we've seen in Warframe; its existence opens the possibility of having effects that enhance Power Duration, Range, or Efficiency directly (cough). I'm not really sure it even requires having a bonus Duration on the player since the effect is already vastly more efficient than Pacify. Well... This is where personal experience comes in. I fully agree that Provoke's effect is interesting and unique, and offers much more than some other offensive buffs. However, novelty by itself is worthless if no one ever gets to use it. The problem is not the buff, but the way it is delivered. Provoke's absence of a timer makes it demand proximity to allies-- something that is antagonistic to the general positioning that day form benefits from. Adding insult to injury, not only it does not have a timer, but it also has a shorter range than most other buffer abilities-- speed, roar, warcry, etc. Granted, those are timed, but they also don't have the added energy cost on ability use by teammates like Provoke does. This all was also at the heart of most discussions about making Rage the friendly buffer ability-- or, at least, making it also a friendly buffer. It's delivery method is much more beneficial for a frame which, requiring such lrocimity to enemies, will mostly be at distance from allies-- the best way to buff them, therefore, would be a " effect on reticule" ability All in all, this leads me to the conclusion that, if we want provoke to be effective, we need a way to ensure it buffs allies while allowing movement. A timer is a tried and true way of achieving that. I'd add more commentary, however my battery is running short and I'm away from home. Will add when I can. suppose I'm done now. Edited August 17, 2016 by tnccs215 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnccs215 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 On 16/08/2016 at 6:09 AM, Archwizard said: ... unless it actually caused you to have increased threat. That could provide some interesting interactions between Provoke and Rage or Metamorphosis, in spite of Day form being "squishy". Casting Rage with Provoke active taunting enemies toward you, swapping to Metamorphosis to tank their damage with Pacify or slapping them with a Rest so they're right where you want them... Playing with threat could actually be a thing for both Pacify and Provoke - imagine playing stealth on Equinox just by reducing enemy awareness... Erhm... I think that should fail in the same way the current rage fails. Having a bombard rocket going faster towards someone's squishy face isn't nice; having that face being, guaranteed, yours, is even worse. Unless, of course, enemies are reduce to melee. In that case, Yes, it would be interesting. Regarding P&P play with enemy threat... Well, taking general mechanics into account, I think that's best left to Rest&Rage (screw nomenclature really); specially Pacify. Stealth missions such as spy would be interesting, yes, but everything else would be completely broken. Your while squad would be effectively invisible to affected enemies. It would be awfully cheesie, I think. On the other hand, Rest&Rage are localized, short radius effects. You'd have to know who to affect. Seems much more befitting to them, I think. On 16/08/2016 at 6:09 AM, Archwizard said: Having the "split effect during transition" would be kinda redundant if you could already do both before and after the transition, no? The way I was thinking of the field would be having both effects "by demand", as it is in the OP. The way I see it, Maim doesn't need any more over-time effects if it already forces a bleed on everyone involved. Once deactivated, the "by demand" field would function the same as now, just not wasting any of the leftover charge - or better yet, allowing you to swap forms and use that leftover charge for the other form. Plus you could probably use Rage to, technically, reduce the target's health cap for the purposes of the ability, causing it to drain less of the damage pool. mh... That was not exactly how I envisioned it. I saw each dome became independent of Equinox in the moment it is set. A dome created on Night form would only heal. One created in Day form would only damage. Ence why Maim dome and Mend dome would have somewhat different mechanics. In maim, only so rarely is damage stored wasted. Making the Dome deal that damage as ticks over time to enemies inside would be a damage distribution much more akin to current mechanics than not. However, I suppose it's just another point of view to yours. After all, I can understand your residence with giving maim more power. On 16/08/2016 at 6:09 AM, Archwizard said: ... No. Rage increases the target's mobility (and I just proposed having it cause the enemy to turn on its allies too), so having the effect be static in the world makes zero sense; it just turns it into a gravity well, an anti-speed bump, that propels enemies out of the debuff at increased speed. In any case, whether or not it created a field wouldn't matter since stats could still affect both sides of the ability in the same ways; it's just a matter of whether the debuff it attached to the enemy or not. Furthermore, separating the activation type of each means it makes sense for this to be the one ability that doesn't directly change when Metamorphosis activates. And of course, you could throw down Rest, swap forms and en-Rage enemies into running into it. Mh... Ok, fair enough, I'm convinced regarding mechanical changes. However, I can't stop thinking that an area in which all entering enemies fall asleep, regardless of having interesting interactions with Rage or not, seems a bit too powerful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnccs215 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 15 hours ago, Azamagon said: Yes, because those opinions are seperated: If Equinox is supposed to be close to allies, the dome is totally awesome. But if she is about being close to enemies, the dome alone is probably not as good, so an unlimited initial healing wave would be nice (too), as then you could be wherever on the field (i.e. close to enemies) and allies will still benefit. About some other notes here from you guys: I'd really not like to change how Rest works. I find it one of the more fun effects in the game: Sleeping enemies into Finishers feels really nice and fun to me. I don't want that removed please! It's also the only way for Nighquinox to feel aggressive in any way. Being purely a support in Night form would both be very boring (imo) and niched (what if no ally needs any healing or defense? Then Nighquinox has no use at all, which would make her even more niched than now. Keep Rest as it is, as it makes her viable in more general gameplay. It also fits with stealthiness. Night, Sleep and Stealth all are words that seem fitting to me) Reading about the Equinox discussions further, I think I'm close to being done on my version of Equinox (only thing still bothering me is the Mend's passive, really). The final "intentions", in summary: * Equinox's positioning is all about being close to enemies (Mend's passive being the only possible exception to this), but being close to allies is also a (lesser) option. * Rage & Rest will embody the spirit of Taijitsu a bit more, as per @Archwizard's request: Rage is about activity, Rest is about passivity. R&R will both have an effect on enemies and on allies, and now has casting-synergy for ally buffing through P&P. Hide contents Metamorphosis: * Instant use, but has a 1 sec recast cooldown instead. * Some part of her buff is permanent, while the other buff decays over time. Akin to what Archwizard proposed (permaspeed and fading armor for Day vs permaarmor and fading speed for Night) sounds good enough to me. * When Metamorphosis is used, M&M and P&P auras are kept on, but swapped in effect. Rage: * Allies caught in the blast get a buff towards Power Strength, melee damage and movementspeed. Equinox always benefit from the buff, no matter where the blast is cast. * Enemies caught in the blast are first angered (stun effect or some kind of frenzied animation), then they will be running faster and be disarmed for the duration. No longer causes them to suffer more damage taken (that is fixed by Provoke). Rest: * Allies caught in the blast will heal some health (and maybe small amounts of energy?) over time, but it only regens them while they stay still. Equinox will always benefit from this buff, no matter where the blast is cast. * Enemies caught in the blast will fall asleep, just like now. Notes: By making Rage temporarily disarm enemies (that was a good idea @ChronoEclipse, props for that!) and buffing allied melee damage, it gives the ability a feeling of mirroring the melee aspect of Rest (you can take your time with powerful finishers with Rest, contra enemies now have to use melee + you strike harder with Rage + more movespeed for ally and enemy alike, making it a more chaotic melee-feeling), it gives it some CC along with the initial "frenzy", and it makes enemies get close to you and your Maim power. Synergy and thematic! Personally, I find Rage being a "disarming enemy-enrager" far more interesting abilty than its current effect, so I'm heavily gonna promote this version of Rage :)Provoke: * Still an aura. It debuffs enemies when you get near them, draining a very small amount of energy from Equinox. This debuff lingers on them indefinitely for as long as they are inside the aura. If they are debuffed but get outside the aura somehow, the debuff lingers on them for X seconds after. * The debuff causes enemies to suffer X% more damage taken and to miss Y% more. * The strength of the miss effect is dependant on how close you are to the enemy: If they are very close, they will miss very much. If they are at the edge or outside the aura, the miss effect has minimal effect. * If an enemy who is outside the aura hurts Equinox or her allies who are inside the Provoke-aura, the enemy is also instantly debuffed. * If Rage is cast while Provoke is active, allies within the Provoke aura also gets the allied Rage-benefits! Pacify: * Still an aura. It debuffs enemies when you get near them, draining a very small amount of energy from Equinox. This debuff lingers on them indefinitely for as long as they are inside the aura. If they are debuffed but get outside the aura somehow, the debuff lingers on them for X seconds after. * The debuff causes enemies to deal X% less damage and to be slowed down by Y%. * The strength of the slow effect is dependant on how close you are to the enemy: If they are very close, they will be slowed down a lot. If they are at the edge or outside the aura, the slow effect has minimal effect. * If an enemy who is outside the aura hurts Equinox or her allies who are inside the Pacify-aura, the enemy is also instantly debuffed. * If Rest is cast while Pacify is active, allies within the Pacify aura also gets the allied Rest-benefits! Note: Augment needs some changing. Maim: * Fueling the ability: Enemies who die inside the aura or allies who are hurt inside the aura fuels it. Fueling ratio is buffed (reason: Due to change on the released effect) * Passive aura: Staggers and bleeds. Flat bleed damage reduced, but now also bleeds a percent of their health based on their current hp (not max hp, as that would be too abuseable). Both flat and percentage damage effects are affected by Power Strength. * Activated "boom": Creates a dome of slashing energy which lingers for X seconds. Once an enemy enters, it is struck by as much damage which is needed to kill it (if possible), draining away from the dome's health the same amount. (Note: This obviously means it no longer has a range diminish either). This also means that Provoke (or any other more-damage-taken-debuff etc) will indirectly reduce the amount of dome health needed to be drained to kill an enemy. Maim's damage prioritizes striking enemies closer to the centre of the Maim dome (if unleashed over multiple enemies). Mend: * Fueling the ability: Enemies who die inside the aura or allies who are hurt inside the aura fuels it. Fueling ratio is buffed (reason: Due to change on the released effect) * Passive aura: I want the effect to be something which detriments enemies (in a defensive way for allies), but if Mend's passive simply restores health and/or shields over time, I guess that is fine *shrugs*. Every second, it restores a small flat amount and a decently sized chunk of health/shields based on how much you and/or your allies are missing (closer to death = more restored, to mirror a somewhat similar and yet opposite effect from Maim's passive, and which also makes it more useful to swap over to Mend in emergencies). Both flat and percentage restore effects are affected by Power Strength. * Activated "boom": Creates a dome of healing energy which lingers for X seconds. Once an ally enters, it instantly heals up the full amount of health needed to restore max health, continuously. This healing retracts from the dome's "health". Notes on both: There is no limit to amount of domes available (if so, then at least 4 should be available?). Swapping your form with Metamorphosis changes all the existing domes' effect from either healing allies or hurting enemies. (Nice idea, @Archwizard!) While I don't like Mend being all about, well, Mending (lol) with rangelimits (thus causing it to be all about ally proximity) I guess it is fine anyway? The Mend's dome at least alleviates quite a lot of that problem I guess? *shrugs*Ending words: While it may not be the optimal Equinox one could revamp, I'd still say that these changes would make me happy, and I'd enjoy to play Equinox more as it: 1) Makes Rage feel useful (both in general, and for her overall kit) and probably would become as fun to spam as Rest is right now to me, hehe :P 2) Makes Rage and Rest feel like melee-themed abilities which sort of fit in to the Taijitsu mindset of Yin & Yang (activity vs passivity), especially the ally buff components 3) Makes Mend and Maim both more fair and interesting: Mend is easier to heal with, both passively and actively (good) and Maim is less cheesy to kill with, both passively and actively (good, albeit maybe slighly less fun to some? :P). Both are also kept as relevant abilities on higher levels, which is great too. 4) Keeps Pacify and Provoke as "fire and forget" skills (to reduce swapping-stress), but are still a bit more interesting in having more "oomph" on the battlefield, due to their added miss- and slow-effects. Also, despite being a "fire and forget" kind of ability, the suggested mechanics can allow you to position yourself more creatively. 5) Keeps the unique Power Strength buff (albeit now as a buff-component in Rage) 6) Makes Equinox (Mend somewhat aside) best played close to enemies, but can still be close to allies (due to the P&P mechanics). R&R having the possibility to buff allies from both afar and closeby (especially with the P&P synergy) helps with that too. Gonna go eat now, might edit a tiny bit more here later. Like your rework, though I personally would probably change Rest's effect. I also think some of the added effects you gave to Provoke might be a bit overkill (in particular enemies giving damaged allies a buff, though suit yourself), and maybe a possible effect for Mend could be status immunity for all allies damaged by enemies inside Mend's aura? Regardless, I think we've come to a moment in which opinion's divergence starts to become more apparent. Don't be disappointed if people in here end up disagreeing with you due to pure preference. If anything, you can create your own topic and hope for the best. I honestly might due it, and give credit to whom it's due. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--Q--uaint Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 (edited) On 8/16/2016 at 8:57 AM, Azamagon said: (that was a good idea @ChronoEclipse, props for that!) Thanks :3 On 8/16/2016 at 8:57 AM, Azamagon said: Note: Augment needs some changing. I have an idea for that. The augment is called Peaceful Provocation.. that kinda sounds like it should mix the ability halves a bit. I'm assuming here that Pacify's enemy-nerfing percentage isn't so high that other defenses effectively become window dressing. I'm thinking 299% strength should give you around 70% at most, if it's not capped lower than that. (At least for the purpose of having this augment idea be relevant.) When augmented, Pacify now forces enemies in its radius to aggro on Equinox. Pacify now also grants Equinox DR, and drains [original damage]/100 energy for the protection. Example: Equinox gets hit with 300 damage. With base efficiency, she is charged 3 energy by her DR. Her power strength then determines the amount of damage she takes by setting the DR. When augmented, Provoke boosts the threat level of all enemies in the radius, and gives Equinox a 100% chance of inflicting a Radiation proc when damaging any enemy in the radius. On 8/16/2016 at 8:57 AM, Azamagon said: * Passive aura: I want the effect to be something which detriments enemies (in a defensive way for allies), but if Mend's passive simply restores health and/or shields over time, I guess that is fine *shrugs* I think Mend's passive benefit should be twofold: shield recharge delay for allies is eliminated, and enemies in the aura who deal damage are staggered. The two effects synergize pretty well together, and somewhat-kinda-sorta mirror Maim. On 8/16/2016 at 8:57 AM, Azamagon said: Notes on both: There is no limit to amount of domes available (if so, then at least 4 should be available?). Swapping your form with Metamorphosis changes all the existing domes' effect from either healing allies or hurting enemies. (Nice idea, @Archwizard!) While I don't like Mend being all about, well, Mending (lol) with rangelimits (thus causing it to be all about ally proximity) I guess it is fine anyway? The Mend's dome at least alleviates quite a lot of that problem I guess? *shrugs* I don't especially mind this iteration of the ability, but I think giving M&M the mirrored mechanics I proposed would give Nightquinox a lot more freedom to hang out with enemies without making Maim a passive dome of doom. To recap my proposal in brief: Mend has an infinite-range initial pulse, with a lasting dome of healing. Maim does basically what it does now, but any excess damage is returned to Equinox for a little while to finish off any enemy she attacks. I also think Maim should get a revision of mechanics so that the "bombs" on each side of the ability can have comparable effects for a given level of charge. (Remember, specters are a thing and will eat Mend's healing alive if they're hurt significantly.) Edited August 17, 2016 by ChronoEclipse I am a master of proofreading and there is no reason for anyone to suspect otherwise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azamagon Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 11 minutes ago, ChronoEclipse said: 1) I think Mend's passive benefit should be twofold: shield recharge delay for allies is eliminated, and enemies in the aura who deal damage are staggered. The two effects synergize pretty well together, and somewhat-kinda-sorta mirror Maim. 2) I don't especially mind this iteration of the ability, but I think giving M&M the mirrored mechanics I proposed would give Nightquinox a lot more freedom to hang out with enemies without making Maim a passive dome of doom. To recap my proposal in brief: Mend has an infinite-range initial pulse, with a lasting dome of healing. Maim does basically what it does now, but any excess damage is returned to Equinox for a little while to finish off any enemy she attacks. I also think Maim should get a revision of mechanics so that the "bombs" on each side of the ability can have comparable effects for a given level of charge. (Remember, specters are a thing and will eat Mend's healing alive if they're hurt significantly.) 1) It could work, but then the benefits are a bit split: One is for healing allies by being close to allies, one is protecing allies by being close to enemies. Which, I guess, could also work in a sense *shrugs*. And yes, it does indeed somewhat-kinda-sorta mirror Maim (corrected that error for you in bold :P ) 2) I like this version, because, as you said earlier, it gives an "unlimited range"-component to both Maim and Mend, and duration matters to both of them as well. I don't even mind that they aren't EXACT copies, the differences actually make them interesting, while still retaining a feeling of similarity, so that's a job well done, again :) Only reason I didn't put in your version was to make sure it is as "easy-to-use" and "mirrored" as possible, to ease it for the newbies and the arsenal UI (even if i find your idea potentially more intruiging!). Also, it's a straight buff to Maim, which it PROBABLY doesn't need? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--Q--uaint Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 7 minutes ago, Azamagon said: Maim (corrected that error for you in bold :P ) Truly, I am a master of proofreading :P Gonna go edit that now... 8 minutes ago, Azamagon said: Only reason I didn't put in your version was to make sure it is as "easy-to-use" and "mirrored" as possible, to ease it for the newbies and the arsenal UI (even if i find your idea potentially more intruiging!). Well, ok. When you put it like that, I guess I can't complain too much. I suppose we can just let Arch decide which he wants in the OP, though I imagine that's a foregone conclusion. 9 minutes ago, Azamagon said: Also, it's a straight buff to Maim, which it PROBABLY doesn't need? Given the change in mechanics I proposed in that same post, it probably would have needed it ;3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azamagon Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 2 minutes ago, ChronoEclipse said: 1) Well, ok. When you put it like that, I guess I can't complain too much. I suppose we can just let Arch decide which he wants in the OP, though I imagine that's a foregone conclusion. 2) Given the change in mechanics I proposed in that same post, it probably would have needed it ;3 1) I don't care which version is added (by Arch, or even better, by DE in-game!), all we can agreed upon is that Mend at least needs lots of buffing. Just SOMETHING! Overall, Equinox honestly doesn't really need all too much to become "fully functional": * Metamorphosis needs to be less clunky, for fluid and quick swapping * Rage needs to be more rewarding (disarm is a great idea for that) * Pacify needs to be less energy-intensive (the timed debuffing fixes that) * Mend, both passively and acively, needs much more to it (passive somehow helping allies' defensive with something such as shield delay removal, and active having a remaining domes and/or an unlimited healing wave, those are all great ways to make it more viable) ^^^ These things alone would really be enough for improving her overall kit viability, but for us picky and perfectionist people, it maybe wouldn't feel truly refined (but, hey, NO Warframe feels refined to me as they are right now. I feel EVERY Warframe has at least a couple of QoL-issues. So we really shouldn't expect much, if anything :P) 2) Oh right, you split the damage stored in your version too, forgot that. Then, yeah, it would've been fine ofc :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--Q--uaint Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 Given that the Equinox discussion seems to have wrapped up for the moment, I had an idea for Ember. Move Fire Blast up to #4, with bigger numbers to match. In addition to Arch's modifications, the fire DoT AoE should be affected by power range and friendly attacks going through the AoE should get bonus Heat damage a la Electric Shield. #3 now becomes Spectacle: The cast works like Elytron's Thumper; you launch a projectile that proceeds on a straight path until it hits something or you manually detonate it. On detonation, the projectile would deal Radiation damage in an AoE and blind before releasing a few "mines." The "mines" would fling away from the initial blast in random directions and come to rest wherever they may. The mines would last for a duration, and any damage done to them would be released as a Blast AoE after applying a damage multiplier. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquasurge Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 (edited) 6 hours ago, ChronoEclipse said: Move Fire Blast up to #4, with bigger numbers to match. In addition to Arch's modifications, the fire DoT AoE should be affected by power range and friendly attacks going through the AoE should get bonus Heat damage a la Electric Shield. not really a fan of that, i like @Archwizard's phoenix but if it could create firestorms like in harry potter......... oh boy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firestorm Edited August 18, 2016 by Aquasurge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiiat Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 6 hours ago, ChronoEclipse said: Move Fire Blast up to #4, with bigger numbers to match. In addition to Arch's modifications, the fire DoT AoE should be affected by power range and friendly attacks going through the AoE should get bonus Heat damage a la Electric Shield. #3 now becomes Spectacle: The cast works like Elytron's Thumper; you launch a projectile that proceeds on a straight path until it hits something or you manually detonate it. On detonation, the projectile would deal Radiation damage in an AoE and blind before releasing a few "mines." The "mines" would fling away from the initial blast in random directions and come to rest wherever they may. The mines would last for a duration, and any damage done to them would be released as a Blast AoE after applying a damage multiplier. changing what number Fire Blast is located on is irrelevant. either way it's a sort of AoE Blast and Ability 3/4 are pretty similar in when you gain access to them. i want to strongly note that if Power Range affects the size of the ring, it'll get a lot harder to know exactly where to place it on the first cast, and high Power Range would make using that ring to deterr Enemies actually difficult because some Enemies would probably be inside the cast area. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Radiation/Blast Damage? Radiation is pretty strange. and the initial mechanics is a Ranged version of Fire Blast, plus Radial Blind. so you moved Fire Blast, and deleted an Ability, in order to give another.... of an Ability she already has. ????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archwizard Posted August 18, 2016 Author Share Posted August 18, 2016 (edited) On 8/17/2016 at 0:19 AM, tnccs215 said: and maybe a possible effect for Mend could be status immunity for all allies damaged by enemies inside Mend's aura? Could work as an alternative to removing shield delay. Either one seems like a proper inversion to Maim's bleeding too. 21 hours ago, ChronoEclipse said: To recap my proposal in brief: Mend has an infinite-range initial pulse, with a lasting dome of healing. Maim does basically what it does now, but any excess damage is returned to Equinox for a little while to finish off any enemy she attacks. I'm a bit concerned with introducing the infinite-range pulse, to be honest. Charging mechanic aside (which is already diminished in the same rework by virtue of allowing the player to charge it with Maim), it seems like we're just creating an effect with no downsides, especially since you could just waste nothing via the pulse from Mend and immediately swap the dome to Maim to finish off anyone near you; the only reason not to drop Trinity for Equinox at all times would be EV (which we already gave a good smacking with a sledgehammer in the OP). The dome exists as a mechanism to allow the player to spend excess charge on healing (and potentially damage too) without wasting it. It's dawning on me now that an alternative to that - one that's simpler to implement, just by recycling tech from Blessing and explosive weapons - would be to have the pulse be infinite range but diminish in healing based on the distance from the caster, causing it to expend that excess charge entirely to, essentially, travel further. I'm not for that idea, but it seems like something DE would think up. Maybe the latter is just me being paranoid, but attaching the wave and persistent effect to just one side just seems inconsistent, and together on either form would be a little unintuitive in terms of design. 19 hours ago, ChronoEclipse said: #3 now becomes Spectacle: The cast works like Elytron's Thumper; you launch a projectile that proceeds on a straight path until it hits something or you manually detonate it. On detonation, the projectile would deal Radiation damage in an AoE and blind before releasing a few "mines." The "mines" would fling away from the initial blast in random directions and come to rest wherever they may. The mines would last for a duration, and any damage done to them would be released as a Blast AoE after applying a damage multiplier. Thoughts? If that didn't seem so fundamentally like a better Prism, I'd say it'd be a better replacement for Sleight of Hand. As taiiat said, the elements chosen are a bit odd, given that Ember is a Fire elemental. I mean yes, Saryn has elemental variety too, but debuff stacking is literally half of her playstyle. Edited August 18, 2016 by Archwizard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiiat Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 16 minutes ago, Archwizard said: As taiiat said, the elements chosen are a bit odd, given that Ember is a Fire elemental. I mean yes, Saryn has elemental variety too, but debuff stacking is literally half of her playstyle. i could see Blast (and the World on Fire Augment basically is a Blast Status Augment, hue), but i'm not sure about Radiation. i mean yes, Radiation tends to involve a lot of Thermal Energy - but then so does Nova's entire theme, Oberon's entire Theme, you could argue Mag and Banshee generate significant Thermal Energy, Et Cetera. would it be useful? ofcourse. i just don't know if it should be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archwizard Posted August 19, 2016 Author Share Posted August 19, 2016 (edited) Just for some final confirmation before this round of Equinox discussions comes to a complete close... Definitely going in the OP under Equinox: - Transitioning to Day Form features a permanent increase to base speed, while Night Form has a permanent increase to base armor, but neither are affected by Power Strength. - Metamorphosis now grants a diminishing bonus to speed when entering Night Form and a diminishing bonus to armor when entering Day Form. No longer cancels the effects of Equinox' toggled abilities; instead, each toggle remains active and swaps to the opposite form's version at no additional cost or cast time, but the benefits are suspended for the animation. Transition time reduced. - Rage also jams the target's weapons, disarming them for the duration. - Pacify instead applies a damage reducing debuff to enemies within range, affected by Duration; energy is only consumed each time an enemy receives the debuff, and its effects no longer fall off at range. - Mend & Maim will each produce a stationary sphere when deactivated, splitting continuous instant healing or damage between occupants, up to the leftover maximum health absorbed or a period affected by Duration; limit 1 sphere at a time. Completing Metamorphosis will transfer the accumulated health pool to the opposite form, and instantly change the active sphere to the opposite form's iteration for the remaining duration/health pool. One of these is going in, which needs to be settled: - While Mend is toggled active, allies near Equinox have no shield recharge delay. - While Mend is toggled active, allies near Equinox are immune to the application of status effects. Tentative additions, with my cases following in spoiler, vote/respond as you please: - Metamorphosis grants diminishing energy generation to Equinox following the transition. - Metamorphosis transformation speed is affected by Natural Talent and Speed Drift. - Rest now creates a 5-meter wide stationary sphere of effect at the target location, which will put any enemy who enters to sleep while the sphere persists or until they receive enough damage, up to a maximum number of instances affected by rank. - Calm & Frenzy replaced: Enemies affected by Rage receive a Radiation proc, while allies who linger within Rest's fields will be healed over time. - Enemies have higher threat towards Equinox under the effects of Provoke, and are less aware of Equinox during the effects of Pacify. - Mend & Maim health pools also absorb energy based on the health lost by allies within the aura while toggled active. Spoiler - Energy regen gives players a reason to swap, rather than simply settling in one form. The sharp drop-off of energy regeneration is a lot more noticeable than a bit of armor that you would have lost anyway, and the neutral effect gives you reason to linger in one form rather than burn 50 energy to keep the one buff you want. - I haven't actually found any sources saying Meta's affected by Natural Talent - if it already is, please let me know, but I've never really noticed a difference. We're already reducing the cast time, so if it isn't, why not? Granting, that also begs the question of "why reduce it AND make it affected, why not JUST have Natural Talent affect it rather than doubling down to an instant transition, where's the penalty otherwise"... - Already stated, Rest presently seems like far too active of a form of defense. Having the effects linger for a duration means you will cast it less often, and the fact that it already vastly outpaces Rage as a form of offense means it could actually use some limitation. By retaining the original stats, the difference is generally small enough in short missions that you won't notice the difference, while still only allowing you to "trap" a relatively small area in longer ones. - @Azamagon already suggested having Rest heal allies within range "as long as they stand still", which would implement perfectly with the aforementioned field; while I see no reason for Equinox to have a second healing ability within the same kit baseline (since Mend's charging mechanic means it absolutely will step on its toes, and we already have enough issue from Well of Life and Blessing being in one kit), it could be an alternative option as an augment. As I stated before, Rage just seems like the kind of Berserk effect that should force enemies to lose all control of their actions, and would pair nicely with that speed boost it gives. - @tnccs215 already suggested allowing Equinox to play around with threat. While Equinox does have reduced base survivability in Day Form, it would pair well with Rage to get enemies to come close for the effects of her other auras (even the ones when she swaps). How far that awareness can be diminished in Night form is up for debate; whether it just means her alliies have more threat, or whether unalerted enemies will be less likely to notice her from far away. If it only affects Equinox' own threat (and doesn't even reset enemy threat or whathaveyou), it won't become a secondary Silence. And honestly, I just want the ability names to match the effects. - There's not really a solid reason not to add the allied health absorption too, but... the charge rate of M&M was never really in question, so this almost seems superfluous, especially as some of these updates vastly increase the amount of CC Equinox has. Besides, allied health pools aren't all that big when you think about it... Final note - this might actually be enough changes to write up an upper listing for Equinox... Edited August 19, 2016 by Archwizard Clarifying that I meant Rest to have a capped number of spheres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquasurge Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 (edited) 3 hours ago, Archwizard said: - While Mend is toggled active, allies near Equinox are immune to the application of status effects. i for vote this as currently at high/end game tier, shields isn't the best thing in the world right now and need a bit of a bump to rival armour 3 hours ago, Archwizard said: - Metamorphosis grants diminishing energy generation to Equinox following the transition. - Metamorphosis transformation speed is affected by Natural Talent and Speed Drift. i also agree with this, it makes sense to put these changes on metamorphosis, no sese waisting 25 energy to swap forms and then waiting for an energy orb to drop while squad suddenly goes down due to a couple of bombards, heavy gunners and a nullie (assuming an EV is in't in the party). 3 hours ago, Archwizard said: - Rest now creates a 5-meter wide stationary sphere of effect at the target location, which will put any enemy who enters to sleep while the sphere persists or until they receive enough damage, up to a maximum affected by rank. This is okay so long as the range is buffed to 6m (going any higher then 7 would enter mini nuke territory (i.e. max range is 15m for 6m, 12.5m for 5m and 17.5m for 7m)) and the number of spheres capped (though it would be nice thematically if it looked like a cylindrical beam of moonlight). 3 hours ago, Archwizard said: - Calm & Frenzy replaced: Enemies affected by Rage receive a Radiation proc, while allies who linger within Rest's fields will be healed over time. - Enemies have higher threat towards Equinox under the effects of Provoke, and are less aware of Equinox during the effects of Pacify. I like these changes, especially since it makes sense for a healer (like nightquinox) to have a lower threat level so that she can heal her allies while they take dmg for her. dayquinox (like @Archwizard said above) "While Equinox does have reduced base survivability in Day Form, it would pair well with Rage to get enemies to come close for the effects of her other auras (even the ones when she swaps)." I agree with this fully since dayquinox has a higher base sprint speed, she can effectively make enemies follow her into traps (aka choke points) or areas where she and her allies have the upper hand to dispose of them (a la la to Vauban's Bastille or away from a defense objective). 3 hours ago, Archwizard said: - Mend & Maim health pools also absorb energy based on the health lost by allies within the aura while toggled active. hmm. this is okay with me but might it might be a good idea to consider adding shield loss to charge the aura as well but make sure the return is greater with health then shields due to it's innate regen. Overall, i think these changes may very well suited for equinox and she may very well be in a good spot if DE decide to add these changes. Edited August 19, 2016 by Aquasurge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnccs215 Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 9 hours ago, Archwizard said: Just for some final confirmation before this round of Equinox discussions comes to a complete close... Definitely going in the OP under Equinox: - Transitioning to Day Form features a permanent increase to base speed, while Night Form has a permanent increase to base armor, but neither are affected by Power Strength. - Metamorphosis now grants a diminishing bonus to speed when entering Night Form and a diminishing bonus to armor when entering Day Form. No longer cancels the effects of Equinox' toggled abilities; instead, each toggle remains active and swaps to the opposite form's version at no additional cost or cast time, but the benefits are suspended for the animation. Transition time reduced. - Rage also jams the target's weapons, disarming them for the duration. - Pacify instead applies a damage reducing debuff to enemies within range, affected by Duration; energy is only consumed each time an enemy receives the debuff, and its effects no longer fall off at range. - Mend & Maim will each produce a stationary sphere when deactivated, splitting continuous instant healing or damage between occupants, up to the leftover maximum health absorbed or a period affected by Duration; limit 1 sphere at a time. Completing Metamorphosis will transfer the accumulated health pool to the opposite form, and instantly change the active sphere to the opposite form's iteration for the remaining duration/health pool. One of these is going in, which needs to be settled: - While Mend is toggled active, allies near Equinox have no shield recharge delay. - While Mend is toggled active, allies near Equinox are immune to the application of status effects. Tentative additions, with my cases following in spoiler, vote/respond as you please: - Metamorphosis grants diminishing energy generation to Equinox following the transition. - Metamorphosis transformation speed is affected by Natural Talent and Speed Drift. - Rest now creates a 5-meter wide stationary sphere of effect at the target location, which will put any enemy who enters to sleep while the sphere persists or until they receive enough damage, up to a maximum number of instances affected by rank. - Calm & Frenzy replaced: Enemies affected by Rage receive a Radiation proc, while allies who linger within Rest's fields will be healed over time. - Enemies have higher threat towards Equinox under the effects of Provoke, and are less aware of Equinox during the effects of Pacify. - Mend & Maim health pools also absorb energy based on the health lost by allies within the aura while toggled active. Reveal hidden contents - Energy regen gives players a reason to swap, rather than simply settling in one form. The sharp drop-off of energy regeneration is a lot more noticeable than a bit of armor that you would have lost anyway, and the neutral effect gives you reason to linger in one form rather than burn 50 energy to keep the one buff you want. - I haven't actually found any sources saying Meta's affected by Natural Talent - if it already is, please let me know, but I've never really noticed a difference. We're already reducing the cast time, so if it isn't, why not? Granting, that also begs the question of "why reduce it AND make it affected, why not JUST have Natural Talent affect it rather than doubling down to an instant transition, where's the penalty otherwise"... - Already stated, Rest presently seems like far too active of a form of defense. Having the effects linger for a duration means you will cast it less often, and the fact that it already vastly outpaces Rage as a form of offense means it could actually use some limitation. By retaining the original stats, the difference is generally small enough in short missions that you won't notice the difference, while still only allowing you to "trap" a relatively small area in longer ones. - @Azamagon already suggested having Rest heal allies within range "as long as they stand still", which would implement perfectly with the aforementioned field; while I see no reason for Equinox to have a second healing ability within the same kit baseline (since Mend's charging mechanic means it absolutely will step on its toes, and we already have enough issue from Well of Life and Blessing being in one kit), it could be an alternative option as an augment. As I stated before, Rage just seems like the kind of Berserk effect that should force enemies to lose all control of their actions, and would pair nicely with that speed boost it gives. - @tnccs215 already suggested allowing Equinox to play around with threat. While Equinox does have reduced base survivability in Day Form, it would pair well with Rage to get enemies to come close for the effects of her other auras (even the ones when she swaps). How far that awareness can be diminished in Night form is up for debate; whether it just means her alliies have more threat, or whether unalerted enemies will be less likely to notice her from far away. If it only affects Equinox' own threat (and doesn't even reset enemy threat or whathaveyou), it won't become a secondary Silence. And honestly, I just want the ability names to match the effects. - There's not really a solid reason not to add the allied health absorption too, but... the charge rate of M&M was never really in question, so this almost seems superfluous, especially as some of these updates vastly increase the amount of CC Equinox has. Besides, allied health pools aren't all that big when you think about it... Final note - this might actually be enough changes to write up an upper listing for Equinox... I vote for status immunity on Mend, for the simples reason it is more useful and fits the theme of the power. Regarding the tentative propositions: - I approve of this alteration, for the very reason you justified it with. So yes, I think it could be a nice QoL addition - Approved. Technically, it is a casting time. No reason not to be affected. - I like this idea, but only partially. Sleep effects can be rather powerful, and there is a reason why effects like Bastille have a maximum number of affected enemies. With that in mind, I think Rest should change completely (name included) in order to place a zone in which all entering enemies loose any aggro, effectively becoming sitting ducks until attacked. Regardless of whether you agree with the aforementioned things or not, I think the number of zones should always be limited to ~4, and specifically if you don't agree, I think there should be a maximum amount of enemies able to fall asleep in one zone. - seems like a good and befitting augment. Approved. - I already discussed this before, so you know my position on this: I don't like it. I think this type of mechanic is more befitting R&R-- not in terms of nomenclature, but of mechanics-- and names are easier to change than mechanics. Maybe Pacify's effect might work if it is not intense enough, however I'm not even sure how aggro works in Warframe. For all we know, there are only two levels or three levels. Personally, I prefer the Slow effect I already proposed. As always, however, suit yourself. - erhm... as you said, allied health pools aren't that big. I think it's just unnecessary. Sorry for not giving any deeper input. Just heard about Rebecca basically saying "Equinox is fine" on prime time. For someone who has put as much time and energy analysing her as I, this is borderline insultuous. The only conclusion I can reach is that, much like Limbo, DE doesn't understand Equinox. I'll probably write a really big wall of text regarding all this next weak, post it, and leave the forums for a while. Might even sell Equinox until she gets a proper rebalancing-- not due some childish strike, but due to shear frustration. Anyway, thank you all for the discussions in here. Stay well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azamagon Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 11 hours ago, Archwizard said: Just for some final confirmation before this round of Equinox discussions comes to a complete close... Definitely going in the OP under Equinox: - Transitioning to Day Form features a permanent increase to base speed, while Night Form has a permanent increase to base armor, but neither are affected by Power Strength. - Metamorphosis now grants a diminishing bonus to speed when entering Night Form and a diminishing bonus to armor when entering Day Form. No longer cancels the effects of Equinox' toggled abilities; instead, each toggle remains active and swaps to the opposite form's version at no additional cost or cast time, but the benefits are suspended for the animation. Transition time reduced. - Rage also jams the target's weapons, disarming them for the duration. - Pacify instead applies a damage reducing debuff to enemies within range, affected by Duration; energy is only consumed each time an enemy receives the debuff, and its effects no longer fall off at range. - Mend & Maim will each produce a stationary sphere when deactivated, splitting continuous instant healing or damage between occupants, up to the leftover maximum health absorbed or a period affected by Duration; limit 1 sphere at a time. Completing Metamorphosis will transfer the accumulated health pool to the opposite form, and instantly change the active sphere to the opposite form's iteration for the remaining duration/health pool. One of these is going in, which needs to be settled: - While Mend is toggled active, allies near Equinox have no shield recharge delay. - While Mend is toggled active, allies near Equinox are immune to the application of status effects. Tentative additions, with my cases following in spoiler, vote/respond as you please: - Metamorphosis grants diminishing energy generation to Equinox following the transition. - Metamorphosis transformation speed is affected by Natural Talent and Speed Drift. - Rest now creates a 5-meter wide stationary sphere of effect at the target location, which will put any enemy who enters to sleep while the sphere persists or until they receive enough damage, up to a maximum number of instances affected by rank. - Calm & Frenzy replaced: Enemies affected by Rage receive a Radiation proc, while allies who linger within Rest's fields will be healed over time. - Enemies have higher threat towards Equinox under the effects of Provoke, and are less aware of Equinox during the effects of Pacify. - Mend & Maim health pools also absorb energy based on the health lost by allies within the aura while toggled active. Reveal hidden contents - Energy regen gives players a reason to swap, rather than simply settling in one form. The sharp drop-off of energy regeneration is a lot more noticeable than a bit of armor that you would have lost anyway, and the neutral effect gives you reason to linger in one form rather than burn 50 energy to keep the one buff you want. - I haven't actually found any sources saying Meta's affected by Natural Talent - if it already is, please let me know, but I've never really noticed a difference. We're already reducing the cast time, so if it isn't, why not? Granting, that also begs the question of "why reduce it AND make it affected, why not JUST have Natural Talent affect it rather than doubling down to an instant transition, where's the penalty otherwise"... - Already stated, Rest presently seems like far too active of a form of defense. Having the effects linger for a duration means you will cast it less often, and the fact that it already vastly outpaces Rage as a form of offense means it could actually use some limitation. By retaining the original stats, the difference is generally small enough in short missions that you won't notice the difference, while still only allowing you to "trap" a relatively small area in longer ones. - @Azamagon already suggested having Rest heal allies within range "as long as they stand still", which would implement perfectly with the aforementioned field; while I see no reason for Equinox to have a second healing ability within the same kit baseline (since Mend's charging mechanic means it absolutely will step on its toes, and we already have enough issue from Well of Life and Blessing being in one kit), it could be an alternative option as an augment. As I stated before, Rage just seems like the kind of Berserk effect that should force enemies to lose all control of their actions, and would pair nicely with that speed boost it gives. - @tnccs215 already suggested allowing Equinox to play around with threat. While Equinox does have reduced base survivability in Day Form, it would pair well with Rage to get enemies to come close for the effects of her other auras (even the ones when she swaps). How far that awareness can be diminished in Night form is up for debate; whether it just means her alliies have more threat, or whether unalerted enemies will be less likely to notice her from far away. If it only affects Equinox' own threat (and doesn't even reset enemy threat or whathaveyou), it won't become a secondary Silence. And honestly, I just want the ability names to match the effects. - There's not really a solid reason not to add the allied health absorption too, but... the charge rate of M&M was never really in question, so this almost seems superfluous, especially as some of these updates vastly increase the amount of CC Equinox has. Besides, allied health pools aren't all that big when you think about it... Final note - this might actually be enough changes to write up an upper listing for Equinox... Mend's passive: Honestly, why not both? Imo: Status immunity represents the stun on Maim's passive, while the shielddelay removal represents the bleed. That's how I see it at least *shrugs* If I had to choose one over the other, I'd probably vote for status immunity, as status immunity is deceivingly powerful, but still also a niched thing, and something that has equal merit across the game's difficulties. Shield regen delay removal is more unique and something that is more "visible" though, unlike status immunity. (Only problem with the shield thing is that it could become similar to the CURRENT bleed passive on Maim: Too cheesy on low levels, and borderline useless on high levels. But low levels is easy with ANY Warframe anyway, so it shouldn't matter too much. I also feel that autokilling is more cheesy and more of a "problem" than extreme survivability is, imo, as you don't insta-win with that, you still have to go around killing yourself.) Regardless, I wouldn't mind if Mend's passive did SOMETHING to shields (like, restore a bit of shields every second, unlinked to natural shield regen, so Power Strength has some use) For the tentative additions: 1) Sounds good. I like your justification for it too, you make a really good point. Energy regen bonus also fits with the (still) energyhungry debuff-Pacify and either version of Provoke (debuff or current), Would it work while M&M is on though? Imo, it should. 2) I don't see why it shouldn't. 3) Seems powerful, but interesting (and fitting the "passivity"). I like setting traps, so I know that I'd personally enjoy such a buff. As @tnccs215 said though, it could potentially be too strong though, so some cap on it probably wouldn't be unjustified (say, target cap and affected by Power Strength? That'd both balance up Rest's buff AND make both R&R versions enjoy Power Strength, so that's 2 birds in 1 stone for me). 4) Can't disagreed with that, it sounds fun and fitting. Good justification too. Just a note though: I think, in the future, we are supposed to have multiple augment options for each ability. So, if anything, it'd be a nice new augment to choose from (as the spread-effect is, imo, completely ok as an augment). 5) Sorry, but no, I don't like this all too much. Nomenclature aside, I just don't like it. And, once again, as @tnccs215 said, we don't really know how aggro works in WF anyway. I still prefer the range-degrading miss/slow-effects much better. 6) Since Mend (both passively and actively) is now all about proximity to allies, I would like this. It's not critical, but it does help it to function in the same "self-fueling" kind of way that Maim already does. 2 hours ago, tnccs215 said: Sorry for not giving any deeper input. Just heard about Rebecca basically saying "Equinox is fine" on prime time. Are you serious? In the most BASIC way (only due to Maim and Rest), yes Equinox can be "fine". But in terms of overall execution for her mechanics, she is one of the clunkiest and badly designed frames there are! I'm also really disheartened to hear that... I mean, what kind of low standards do they have?? Oo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azamagon Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Sorry for the doublepost, but this is a new discussion: Zephyr's Tail Wind. Baking Dive Bomb into it somehow is fine, but I feel the ability could still stand to be made more... "elegant": What if it worked like this: * Now a (very energy-cheap) toggle effect, where it simply continuously propels her forward rather quickly. You can turn around freely (steering probably as Sharkwing, but you can never stop or go backwards). Possibly, if one wants to keep the intention of the ability more as a "fast forward movement" skill, the turning rate (sidewise only?) could be capped and thus relatively "stiff". (If up-down movement also has to be stiff for some reason, then crouching while active could make her quickly angle her more downwards, so she can dive quickly, jumping while active would do the opposite) Can end early by recasting, which makes her keep the current momentum. This leftover momentum can be stopped by other manual aerial movements though. * If she collides with anything in the environment while the ability is still active (possibly when colliding with enemies too, but absolutely not with allies), Tail Wind will end with an impact-explosion (think Dive Bomb, but spherical). Damage and size of the explosion are affected by Strength and Range, respectively. * She still (as per @Archwizard's changes) leaves razor winds in her wake as she flies. The wind's size, duration and damage are affected by Range, Duration and Strength respectively. Just a thought :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquasurge Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 3 hours ago, Azamagon said: * Now a (very energy-cheap) toggle effect, where it simply continuously propels her forward rather quickly. You can turn around freely (steering probably as Sharkwing, but you can never stop or go backwards). Possibly, if one wants to keep the intention of the ability more as a "fast forward movement" skill, the turning rate (sidewise only?) could be capped and thus relatively "stiff". (If up-down movement also has to be stiff for some reason, then crouching while active could make her quickly angle her more downwards, so she can dive quickly, jumping while active would do the opposite) Can end early by recasting, which makes her keep the current momentum. This leftover momentum can be stopped by other manual aerial movements though. you know, it would be much easier if you could just hold aim glide to interrupt the animation (like temporarily pausing time) momentarily and once the moment ends you travel in the direction your cursor is facing. hmm. that just might be a good idea to add for her passive (true air-sniping at last). 3 hours ago, Azamagon said: * If she collides with anything in the environment while the ability is still active (possibly when colliding with enemies too, but absolutely not with allies), Tail Wind will end with an impact-explosion (think Dive Bomb, but spherical). Damage and size of the explosion are affected by Strength and Range, respectively. this is sweet but what would be nice is if zephyr hits a wall while in tail wind, she should automatically wall latch to that wall. the explosion is a nice touch but so long as the blast radius doesn't go through walls and is deadlier in include spaces (think about air pressure, it is more focused in enclosed spaces). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archwizard Posted August 20, 2016 Author Share Posted August 20, 2016 (edited) Couple last second thoughts about Equinox as I'm writing up her section for the OP: - In the same vein that I had an issue with Rest for being too "active", I find I still have an issue with Maim for being too "passive". The fact that you need to build it up and generate it is one thing; the fact that it can tear enemies apart in your peripheral without even needing to finish the cast though? Quite another. I'm actually half-tempted not to add a "counter" buff to Mend, but to remove the bleed from Maim. The persistent sphere of effect is potent enough to make up for the charging mechanic, and both sides of it embody both philosophies simultaneously, but the passive bleed has always been an outlier. It's not like we need the stun anymore, with that disarm on Rage doing enough for that. - I know that Peaceful Provocation is popular, but in the same vein as our issues with Equinox being discouraged from switching, I'm finding I take some ire with Peaceful Provocation for forcing Equinox into leaving one form active for prolonged periods. I'm this close to taking that threat mechanic I was discussing for P&P and making it into a replacement augment (which could help justify the potential power level y'all were worried about...). - I'm half-tempted to make Metamorphosis have a "Power In Use" error while it's ticking down, so you have to stay in one form if you just swapped to get the benefits of the energy regen. However, part of me feels like this defeats the point of the diminishing effect in the first place... I know that probably none of these are appealing to look at, but that's the point of a nerf. With the rework as it stands, we did just go out of our way to remove the "hybrid tax" she was paying in terms of her fluidity, without necessarily replacing it... which potentially means that she's one frame who can do everything. The point of increasing the fluidity is that you rely on the versatility provided by both forms to make up for the flaws of the one, but right now all we've done is ironed out those in-built flaws. Edited August 20, 2016 by Archwizard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquasurge Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 (edited) 6 hours ago, Archwizard said: I know that probably none of these are appealing to look at, but that's the point of a nerf. With the rework as it stands, we did just go out of our way to remove the "hybrid tax" she was paying in terms of her fluidity, without necessarily replacing it... which potentially means that she's one frame who can do everything. The point of increasing the fluidity is that you rely on the versatility provided by both forms to make up for the flaws of the one, but right now all we've done is ironed out those in-built flaws. i definitely agree with you here @Archwizard . I can see that she could be very much over used if the proposed changes went live; imagine an 8 man equinox squad for a raid finishing without a problem, she would very likely be preferred over every-other frame in the game which is a big no no in term's of @Archwizard's hypothetical "perfect world". Putting emphasis on moving forward to a direction where day and night/yin and yang are in harmony where one cannot exist/ignored without the other is great from a thematic stand point in a way that forces the player to adapt to the conditions on the battlefield depending if equinox needs to prioritize allies over enemies and vise versa. on a lighter note, who's excited for shield gates for warframes coming soon (finally!)? Edited August 20, 2016 by Aquasurge edit for reasons unknown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archwizard Posted August 20, 2016 Author Share Posted August 20, 2016 Been a few hours with no objections... always willing to change what's written in the OP with a strong counter-argument though. Updated the OP and retitled the thread. Equinox takes her place. 3 hours ago, Aquasurge said: on a lighter note, who's excited for shield gates for warframes coming soon? I've always had complete support for EmptyDevil's suggestion, even putting it in the OP, so we know I'm all for it. I recently heard on Reddit that apparently there's been an ongoing glitch, where damage taken to shields that had overflow into health would completely ignore armor, explaining why even high survivability frames could be one-shot so easily. Not sure if it's true, but whether or not it is, shield gating would put a permanent stop to one-shotting for any frame not named Inaros (... who has a second passive that makes up for it anyway, so that's no problem at all). On a bonus note, this will definitely make shield-regeneration a viable form of survivability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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