Retune *all* The Frames! (11/19: Wildfire)

[Snowbluff]

I actually really like how pacify works right now, with it draining based on how many enemies are around. I would hat for it to suddenly not work after so many seconds, especially if the enemy spent the whole time behind cover anyway.

Peaceful provocation is good, too. Hide and heckle does not work because equinox simply doesn't have the bulk or the want to be soaking damage.

i do hate losing my bonuses for switching though.

[tnccs215]

53 minutes ago, Snowbluff said:

I actually really like how pacify works right now, with it draining based on how many enemies are around. I would hat for it to suddenly not work after so many seconds, especially if the enemy spent the whole time behind cover anyway.

Peaceful provocation is good, too. Hide and heckle does not work because equinox simply doesn't have the bulk or the want to be soaking damage.

i do hate losing my bonuses for switching though.

Pacify's damage reduction's mechanic makes the power irrelevant at best, demanding heavily min maxed builds to even be noticeable.

With it draining the same amount of energy regardless of range, it is quite literally unfair, costing the same for different values of damage reduction.

The alterations proposed not only fix this, they also allow Equinox to be a more effective team supporter-- since the category of "possibly debuffed enemies" goes beyond the ones targeting and/or being close to her.

Peaceful Provocation is a freak that solidifies Equinox as a failure of a concept; a band-aid, cheesy augment that punishes Form changing (you know, the thing Equinox exists for) further to obscene degrees.

Above all, Equinox is adaptation. By default, Mend and Maim already hinder so; and even the simple fact they deactivate on Metamorphosis, so do Pacify and Provoque. Peaceful Provocation changes this from a hindrance to a full blown punishment.

Honestly, if freely changing between 80% slow and 70% extra p. Strength is considered too powerful, than it should be removed, or at least toned down. A frame's raison d'être shouldn't come after it's already established (and, honestly, borderline cheesy) power.

[EDIT]: Also, Pacify makes Energy Overflow mandatory for Equinox.

Also, I am aware you never said that it was too powerful to change powers like this. But it's a common argument, even used by DE themselves, and I prefer to answer counter arguments before they even appear.

Edited November 24, 2016 by tnccs215

[tnccs215]

1 hour ago, Archwizard said:

This where my side of the Ember rework is presently at, without swapping abilities around to make Fire Blast her ultimate or whathaveyou. Having Fire Blast as just a damage ability simply reverts back to the old style of ability creation, a skill that simply deals flat damage. World on Fire is a good idea for an ability in theory, it just trivializes content; meanwhile I'm not sure why there's a suggestion running for World on Fire to be made an area-denial skill, since it's a mobile effect not limited to any one 'area'.

Any further thoughts on this?

I know I got to this conversation on its middle, but won't the new World of Fire kinda make Accelerant redundant?

[Snowbluff]

46 minutes ago, tnccs215 said:

Pacify's damage reduction's mechanic makes the power irrelevant at best, demanding heavily min maxed builds to even be noticeable.

With it draining the same amount of energy regardless of range, it is quite literally unfair, costing the same for different values of damage reduction.

The alterations proposed not only fix this, they also allow Equinox to be a more effective team supporter-- since the category of "possibly debuffed enemies" goes beyond the ones targeting and/or being close to her.

Peaceful Provocation is a freak that solidifies Equinox as a failure of a concept; a band-aid, cheesy augment that punishes Form changing (you know, the thing Equinox exists for) further to obscene degrees.

Above all, Equinox is adaptation. By default, Mend and Maim already hinder so; and even the simple fact they deactivate on Metamorphosis, so do Pacify and Provoque. Peaceful Provocation changes this from a hindrance to a full blown punishment.

Honestly, if freely changing between 80% slow and 70% extra p. Strength is considered too powerful, than it should be removed, or at least toned down. A frame's raison d'être shouldn't come after it's already established (and, honestly, borderline cheesy) power.

[EDIT]: Also, Pacify makes Energy Overflow mandatory for Equinox.

Also, I am aware you never said that it was too powerful to change powers like this. But it's a common argument, even used by DE themselves, and I prefer to answer counter arguments before they even appear.

Well you see the problem is that I need think damage abilities are garbage as a rule, because they don't scale well outside of exalted abilities, which I also don't use because I lose damage for having to use less than optimal builds on my normal weapons. Maiming an army of tiny guys is expedient, but really not that effect at high levels. Therefore, buffing power strength by a crap ton isn't really an issue to me. Maybe the augment should keep one half of the buff dormant or have it degrade slowly over time when switching, and the other half is built up separately or whatever if someone actually thinks it's a balance issue

So really I wouldn't play equinox if her cc wasn't as good as it is with her augments in night form. Nerfing it in that way would just leave me to ditch the frame, which I've been otherwise enjoying. I don't want it to become another nekros, where they changed the abilities to focus in a way I could ignore before, but now are mandatory and aggravating.

sure, having the range fixed or the energy changed for it would be nice, but it does have to compete with frames that can block or stop all damage, stop all movement over a smaller time frame or one effectively equivalent to the the target enemy's lifespan, and/or do that and increase damage done in other ways.

or I don't know, they can give the augmented versions of the night frame abilities to an entirely different warframe that wears a nice dress, and i could play that instead. Day equinox doesn't even have clothe Physics SMH. :p

Edited November 24, 2016 by Snowbluff

[tnccs215]

7 hours ago, Snowbluff said:

/snip/

Erhm... With all due respect, all that means that your experience with her is, very literally, just half of it.

You can argue that damage abilities are useless (they aren't, specially not Maim, but that's another matter) and that extra power strength is negligible too (it isn't, specially because it does more than just buffing damaging abilities). But all that is beyond the point: You cannot give feedback when your point of view is so skewed. Not only don't you have experience with literally half of her, you are neglecting how form change is important in a frame that is meant to be all about that.

A frame is more than its powers and how efficient (i.e. How well do they perform any task) these powers are. A frame is a theme, a premise, a set of specific roles, and its powers. Even if enjoy a current iteration, you can easily tell how that iteration isn't quite exactly the best fitting for what Equinox is meant to stand for. Day Form can be said to work and obey its function at the most utilitarian terms, but its gameplay is awfully (and ironically) passive for a Half meant to represent action and aggressiveness. More importantly, Night Form falls incredibly short in every department but CC, with what can be described as a shockingly subpar heal, a shockingly subpar protection aura (Pacify), and a shockingly cheesy CC ability (Rest, which is not only cheese, but also a fourth of another frames power). Rule of thumb, any power that demands an augment to work properly is a poorly designed power (and, quite commonly, frame too).

More importantly, she falls incredibly short in the adaptation department. And that's the main issue. Adapting (i.e. changing aspect) with Equinox is preemptively punishing, and demands a proactive gameplay that is impossible on a game where not even enemy pathing is predictable.

Its honestly better if they would add the slow augment and function to another frame if that's what's seen as necessary to actually make her adaptable, because there is no reason for Equinox to exist otherwise.

 

[tnccs215]

so, any thoughts on Ash's reworked bladestorm?

Quite honestly, against most people on the forums, I think it is quite acceptable. The only problem that I see with Ash is, frankly, the redundancy of his powers -- with shuriken being pretty much pointless and Teleport being redundant at best, and bland at worst.

The only true variation that exists is Smokescreen -- that I personally think just makes him a more offensive Loki.

any other opinions on the matter?

[Azamagon]

4 hours ago, tnccs215 said:

so, any thoughts on Ash's reworked bladestorm?

Quite honestly, against most people on the forums, I think it is quite acceptable. The only problem that I see with Ash is, frankly, the redundancy of his powers -- with shuriken being pretty much pointless and Teleport being redundant at best, and bland at worst.

The only true variation that exists is Smokescreen -- that I personally think just makes him a more offensive Loki.

any other opinions on the matter?

As more or less an Ash "main" (he is at least my most used by a fair margin), I think the Bladestorm change is also somewhat acceptable, it's a good start. I at least find it more fun than the previous iteration.

But he certainly needs more tweaks. My opinions on what needs changing on his skills (partially taken from an Ash feedback thread):

Shuriken
I find this ability really lackluster, sadly. I think adding some utility would be the way to go for it, considering Bladestorm feels like his main damage-nuke.
* I think a good compromise would be to add a 3rd shuriken, but this one goes straight forward and has punchthrough (modded with P.Range) (Already suggested here, and is something that Archwizard already added in his initial post)
* Make the shurikens add to and benefit from the melee combo counter (possibly also benefit from melee stealth multiplier?). This gives it better offensive potency in itself, but also in combination when fighting inmelee (further aided by Smoke Screen), as well as for pre-boosting up your Bladestorm damage.
* Some kind of quick stagger or stun effect on struck enemies would be nice
* Struck targets could be automarked for Bladestorm at no additional energycost (other than the Shuriken cost ofc). With the 3rd shuriken and its punchthrough, that means, if used well, you'd have a very economical Bladestorm!

Smoke Screen
Nigh perfect. Only missing something tiny, just so Power Strength has a use on it. Like:
* Enemies staggered by Smoke Screen also have their accuracy lowered (potency modded with P.Strength)
* Augment could leave a small cloud behind. Allies walking through gets the invis, enemies walking through gets the accuracy debuff (constantly refreshing if they linger). It could potentially also block line of sight for enemies
* I see a lot of people wanting to vastly improve its CC capabilities (continuous choking / open up for finishers), which of course would be great, but I personally think it the stagger is good enough for hard CC. That short stagger, honestly, has saved my life more times than I can count. And considering how good invisibility is in this game, I really don't see the need for it to getting even better hard-CC than what it already has (soft CC, like the suggested accuracy-lowering, that's ok though).

Teleport
While not a horrible ability, it could still need some sprucing up, as it feels quite bland, all things considered.
* After casting Teleport, Ash gains a slight and brief boost to melee attackspeed, possibly also movespeed (boost modded by P.Strength, duration by P.Duration)
* On the landing point, all enemies in a moderate radius become finisher-stunned (radius modded by P.Range)
* Potentially, make it free-aim? At least if holdcast? If so, then how about also adding that if you teleport to a wall, you wall-cling to it with an added X second duration (modded by P.Duration)

Bladestorm
I honestly like it better now, feeling more interactive. But it is rather slow, and a bit clumsy, and lacks synergy with his other skills. So, to help alleviate that:
* Make the mark per enemy cost 10 energy by default. The synergy with Smoke Screen is already there (it's great to use it before starting to mark).
* While marking, in a small/moderate radius around Ash, enemies are automarked (Natural Teleport synergy!). Note: If that's too "easy", at least make the AoE-marking occur in an area around Ash where he lands after using Teleport during the marking mode (not as natural, but at least some decent synergy)
* While marking, Ash could gain an added special crosshair-ring (default size about the same as the total current crosshair, if drawn as a circle). Any enemy seen in this ring is marked. Crosshair's size is modded by P.Range! (Yes, this is similar to Mesa's PM-aiming, but much smaller and a more static size)
* As already mentioned on Shuriken: Shuriken-struck targets could be automarked for Bladestorm at no additional energycost (other than the Shuriken cost ofc). With the suggested 3rd shuriken and its punchthrough, that means, if used well, you'd have a very economical Bladestorm!

[Archwizard]

Ash still suffers from a lot of the same issues all of the early frames originally shared: they were made with a mental image of a certain class archetype, but not designed with execution in mind. In the early days of Warframe, it could have been seen as more excusable because few frames had synergy between their skills, and the baseline limitations of players opened more options for frame customization; today though, it leads to him falling behind by comparison.

Something that bugs me about a lot of the reworks: They start with the question, "How can we take this original concept and make it better with the fewest changes?" - not "If I were to make this archetype from scratch TODAY, what would I do differently?"

Personally, my big concern with Ash is that his damaging abilities are too similar - which is a grievance I've had with several frames in the past, but his is a very particular case. Now that Bladestorm scales its cost to the number of active instances (and thus, is miles more cost-efficient), there's virtually no scenario where a max-level Ash player would willingly throw a Shuriken over just tagging a target with Bladestorm. (@Azamagon's suggestion of having Shuriken add to the combo count, while interesting, doesn't really work since Bladestorm can do the same. Having Shuriken mark the target for Bladestorm may not work either due to the aforementioned cost efficiency, especially as the Slash damage falls off against armor.)

As far as synergy... I think we should start with having Bladestorm pause Ash's invisibility timer while it's active. People have complained that it doesn't last long enough, no?

Simultaneously, having Bladestorm AND Teleport in the same kit just feels... awkward. "Teleport to the target and deal a finisher! Which skill am I referring to? Yes."
I'll grant that free-aiming Teleport would at least justify making them separate skills within his kit, but it and Bladestorm both come from the exact same mental image of a fast-moving, quick-striking assassin, and each just makes the other seem redundant in the same way players have complained about Limbo having 3 ways to do the same thing.

To be honest, I've never really been attached to the idea of fixing Shuriken by adding more shuriken to it. The fact that two of the shuriken are uncontrolled by the player doesn't help matters in trying to add synergy to the skill. Since the introduction of the Kunai and Hikou, giving Ash his own Shuriken has frankly been unnecessary. (I'm half-tempted to say scrap the ability, give him a new 1 that has to do with debuffing, and replace his passive with one that gives him heavy bonuses with thrown or silent weapons - but I'm ALSO tempted to say scrap Teleport and replace it, and change Bladestorm into an Exalted weapon with weapon scaling and innate Rift Strike as its unique gimmick. I doubt both would pass, and I can barely think of one new skill for him, much less two.)

Ultimately before we can proceed, we need to ask the big question that new frames have asked, which wasn't asked back in the time when Ash was made: What is his place in the roster? What does it mean to be a "ninja class" amongst ninjas?

(It's part of why I push more for him to be termed as an "Assassin".)

Edited November 29, 2016 by Archwizard

[tnccs215]

13 hours ago, Archwizard said:

f a aAsh still suffers from a lot of the same issues all of the early frames originally shared: they were made with a mental image of a certain class archetype, but not designed with execution in mind. In the early days of Warframe, it could have been seen as more excusable because few frames had synergy between their skills, and the baseline limitations of players opened more options for frame customization; today though, it leads to him falling behind by comparison.

Agreed, but I would also like to give an additional reason on why it was excusable: the energetic of the time was brutally different back then. In a game were energy is relatively hard to obtain, it makes sense/is excusable for the "Ultimate" to be just a more powerful version of one or several of the previous abilities. IIRC, ultimates were almost invariably just nuke versions of most initial abilities, in one way or another. The only possible exceptions I see is Excalibur and Rhino, and even those have overlapping tasks.

Now, on a game in which energy is very abundant and power use is much more intense and encouraged (quite personally, I prefer such a system. Powers, after all, are fun), it doesn't make sense for redundancy in abilities, regardless of cost.

It's just my take on it really. I also blame it on DE's bigger lack of experience/originality at the time. Most frames of the time follow(ed) a somewhat standard ability model, almost invariably starting with a single target damage ability (with an added unique taste) and almost invariably ending with a general nuke (also with a unique taste). The bigger variation existed exactly on the middle abilities.

13 hours ago, Archwizard said:

Something that bugs me about a lot of the reworks: They start with the question, "How can we take this original concept and make it better with the fewest changes?" - not "If I were to make this archetype from scratch TODAY, what would I do differently?"

Wholeheartedly agreed: Most of their reworks are shockingly conservative. Taking them all into account, the only ones that trully became something different were Saryn and Excalibur -- the first more than the latter, and solely because of the change of paradigm, since the concept of powers themselves changed very little.

13 hours ago, Archwizard said:

As far as synergy... I think we should start with having Bladestorm pause Ash's invisibility timer while it's active. People have complained that it doesn't last long enough, no?

I suppose so... Though as it is, it kinda serves as a way to demand player awareness and planning, which isn't obligatorily bad. *shrugs*

13 hours ago, Archwizard said:

*propositions that ensue*

To be quite honest, I don't know if Shuriken is completely irredimeable. @Azamagon's propositions sound quite reasonable to be honest -- though I'm afraid such is partially due to it ending up being piggybacked by BladeStorm (i.e. It's value is more due to the fact it allows for moar blade storming, and little else). I think this is one of the cases in which fusing the augment with the ability is actually a good decision, though I'm possibly compensating for my lack of originality.

I do understand and agree with your points regarding Teleport and Bladestorm -- the only inherent value I see in teleport is how you stay in the place you teleported to -- and even that is not that relevant, since parkour 2.0 is what it is.

The exalted melee will probably be considered a "lazy fix", due to its supposed lack of originality. Though, to be honest, I don't fully understand the community's aversion to exalted fixes (suppose its due to how bloody common they are in this subforum), but I cannot say it doesn't fit Ash. It simply does, and agglutinating Teleport with it makes sense. After all, the only difference between teleport and super jump is that teleport allowed you to do finishers.

With that in mind, some quick possible ideas, snatched from several places:

1- I like Azamagon's ideas, so I think they should added as he proposes. Maybe too make the Augment part of the default ability?

2 - Smoke Screen staying as it currently is, except for the augment, that should get the ally-affecting changes that Azamagon proposes.

3 - Teleport scraped. Now, two possibilities arise:

3.1 - We follow the Excaliroute, in which a modified version of the current Bladestorm replaces it: While still dealing finisher damage and locking enemies in place, it no longer benefits from the combo counter, nor does it contribute to it. In exchange, however, Ash is no longer locked into a makeshift cutscene: That is something reserved for his holographic clones. Ash is now free to act as he pleases. Of course, this means that his ultimate is now replaced with an exalted melee that, in addition to Archwizard's proposed gimmick, might also increase all movement speed(?).

3.2 - Alternatively, it can be replaced by Smoke Bomb:

Spoiler

Upon hitting the ground, the grenade immediately releases a loud noise,  momentarily (0.5 seconds tops) startling all enemies in a wide area. It also releases a smoke wall, that will stun all enemies that enter it and deal toxin damage (synergy with Seeking Shuriken, that removes all armor). All enemies inside will have reduced accuracy (and maybe we can simulate the idea that enemies attempting to shoot tenno from the other side will too be unable to see by having the smoke wall work like a weaker Zephyr's 3).

Additionally, should enemies not be in an alerted state (i.e. Stealth mission), all enemies with LoS to the bomb will investigate it (a la quiver), without becoming alerted.

As the cherry on top of the cake, this ability has two throwing methods: Taping the ability key will make Ash drop the bomb at his feet, perfect for an escape. Holding the key will instead allow ash to throw the bomb, featuring a trajectory curve and splashzone (much like Hydroid's 1).

In this case, Bladestorm can keep his place as his ultimate... Though that means the redundancy of Shuriken is still a problem.

These are just some ideas, many of them amalgamations of already existent ideas. Smoke Bomb, in particular, is constantly proposed as additions to Smoke Screen -- though I think smoke screen itself does not require much, if anything, and so separating smoke bomb from smoke screen and adding my own gimmicks seemed appropriate.

Edited November 29, 2016 by tnccs215

[Blakrana]

10 hours ago, Archwizard said:

Ultimately before we can proceed, we need to ask the big question that new frames have asked, which wasn't asked back in the time when Ash was made: What is his place in the roster? What does it mean to be a "ninja class" amongst ninjas?

(It's part of why I push more for him to be termed as an "Assassin".)

It's a fair question.

On the one hand, the more 'traditional' ninja would be more of a spy, sleuth and blade as needed, but we're in a situation where we're more akin to the Ryu Hyabusa school of Ninja than much else. Thing is the game just doesn't really...fit that 'Traditional/espionage' angle as we're largely about charging into the fray and little else. And even if it were, Loki and Ivara are better suited to such 'scout, distract, dispose' roles per their power sets. Apt as it would be in a general sense...outside a Spy or Rescue it's relatively defunct.

Which leads back to the problem with Ash. Aesthetically he nails the idea. But he's not really...going to be getting anywhere as the 'Traditional' Ninja as that spot is pretty well taken on a strictly power perspective. And it'd likely run contrary to his 'Aggressive' style to give him skills suited for evading and tricking enemies compared to directly bringing them down.

Sorry not offering a clear answer, but I think Ash should certainly retain his 'aggressive' approach in whatever way he's looked at.

[tnccs215]

2 minutes ago, Blakrana said:

It's a fair question.

On the one hand, the more 'traditional' ninja would be more of a spy, sleuth and blade as needed, but we're in a situation where we're more akin to the Ryu Hyabusa school of Ninja than much else. Thing is the game just doesn't really...fit that 'Traditional/espionage' angle as we're largely about charging into the fray and little else. And even if it were, Loki and Ivara are better suited to such 'scout, distract, dispose' roles per their power sets. Apt as it would be in a general sense...outside a Spy or Rescue it's relatively defunct.

Which leads back to the problem with Ash. Aesthetically he nails the idea. But he's not really...going to be getting anywhere as the 'Traditional' Ninja as that spot is pretty well taken on a strictly power perspective. And it'd likely run contrary to his 'Aggressive' style to give him skills suited for evading and tricking enemies compared to directly bringing them down.

Sorry not offering a clear answer, but I think Ash should certainly retain his 'aggressive' approach in whatever way he's looked at.

Good points, and I forgot to add this in my previous comment.

In my eyes, the most that a "ninja" frame can be in Warframe is "Loki, but more offensive". Taking advantage of stealth, but less to conquer, and more to destroy. There isn't much more going on and, to be honest, I think DE kinda did what they could. Truth is, while there are a thousand ways to divide and conquer, killing only really takes one. When all but one power serves to kill enemies, and one of the other three is overshadowed by jumping, redundancy is inevitable.

[Gurpgork]

1 hour ago, Blakrana said:

On the one hand, the more 'traditional' ninja would be more of a spy, sleuth and blade as needed, but we're in a situation where we're more akin to the Ryu Hyabusa school of Ninja than much else.

I don't see a reason why Ash can't blend the two. He could have two offensive abilities and two defensive abilities, with the offensive ones being more along the lines of Ryu Hyabusa and the defensive ones being more like the "traditional" ninja. I'm getting this hit-and-run idea of what Ash could be, possessing both tools to get himself in and out of danger. 

I think Smokescreen could have an adjustment to be more of a CC-focused ability with the bonus of invisibility, both to set it apart from other invisibility skills and to give Ash some much-needed crowd control. Make it a big smoke cloud that blinds enemies inside it and makes Ash invisible for a few seconds. 

As for Teleport, I'm thinking that maybe it could be a gap opener instead of a gap closer. Make it teleport him straight backwards (at a shorter distance) that ends with a pseudo-aim glide that lets him target enemies for Blade Storm. This could either be an interaction with Smokescreen that changes it, or it could be an augment, or it could just be a rework of the ability.

Then maybe adjust Shuriken and Blade Storm's damage values. Give Shuriken the big DoT that Blade Storm currently has, then give Blade Storm high initial damage and low damage over time, making sure that Shuriken does more damage total than Blade Storm. Also, make Blade Storm a series of very fast attacks, rather than the slow, nauseating finisher animations. 

I think this would make Ash's strategy go something like this: Use Blade Storm to clear trash mobs quickly with high initial damage, then use Shuriken to finish off survivors. Use Smokescreen + Teleport to get out of sticky situations and to prep another Blade Storm. Each tool now has its own distinct purpose.

[Azamagon]

16 hours ago, Archwizard said:

1) Something that bugs me about a lot of the reworks: They start with the question, "How can we take this original concept and make it better with the fewest changes?" - not "If I were to make this archetype from scratch TODAY, what would I do differently?"

2) Personally, my big concern with Ash is that his damaging abilities are too similar - which is a grievance I've had with several frames in the past, but his is a very particular case. Now that Bladestorm scales its cost to the number of active instances (and thus, is miles more cost-efficient), there's virtually no scenario where a max-level Ash player would willingly throw a Shuriken over just tagging a target with Bladestorm. (@Azamagon's suggestion of having Shuriken add to the combo count, while interesting, doesn't really work since Bladestorm can do the same. Having Shuriken mark the target for Bladestorm may not work either due to the aforementioned cost efficiency, especially as the Slash damage falls off against armor.)

3) As far as synergy... I think we should start with having Bladestorm pause Ash's invisibility timer while it's active. People have complained that it doesn't last long enough, no?

4) Simultaneously, having Bladestorm AND Teleport in the same kit just feels... awkward. "Teleport to the target and deal a finisher! Which skill am I referring to? Yes."
I'll grant that free-aiming Teleport would at least justify making them separate skills within his kit, but it and Bladestorm both come from the exact same mental image of a fast-moving, quick-striking assassin, and each just makes the other seem redundant in the same way players have complained about Limbo having 3 ways to do the same thing.

5) To be honest, I've never really been attached to the idea of fixing Shuriken by adding more shuriken to it. The fact that two of the shuriken are uncontrolled by the player doesn't help matters in trying to add synergy to the skill. Since the introduction of the Kunai and Hikou, giving Ash his own Shuriken has frankly been unnecessary. (I'm half-tempted to say scrap the ability, give him a new 1 that has to do with debuffing, and replace his passive with one that gives him heavy bonuses with thrown or silent weapons - but I'm ALSO tempted to say scrap Teleport and replace it, and change Bladestorm into an Exalted weapon with weapon scaling and innate Rift Strike as its unique gimmick. I doubt both would pass, and I can barely think of one new skill for him, much less two.)

6) Ultimately before we can proceed, we need to ask the big question that new frames have asked, which wasn't asked back in the time when Ash was made: What is his place in the roster? What does it mean to be a "ninja class" amongst ninjas?

(It's part of why I push more for him to be termed as an "Assassin".)

1) Honestly, I have very little problem with that approach. My problem is that they simply don't do ENOUGH to the skills (and not even ALL of them, poor Shuriken), but if they do, they give forced synergy (which I hate, it shows laziness and lack of creativity) rather than thinking a bit further and giving more natural synergy (Forced: Smoke Screen reducing BS energycost. Natural synergy by comparison: Decoy and Switch Teleport)

2) I agreed to an extent, making them compete as damageskills seems a fool's errand, considering how BS works right now. That's why I thought giving Shuriken ok damage, but way more focus on utility, seems the way to go.
Note: If shurikens free-of-energy-marked enemies, and if you had a 3rd shuriken (the one with puncthrough) and struck just ONE target with that shuriken, you'd get 3 marks (since the 2 homing ones are very likely to strike something too) for the cost of 25 energy (i.e. 8,33 energy/target), meaning it'd be slightly more efficient at marking enemies than Bladestorm's manual targetting, while adding some damage to boot. Now, if you would strike multiple enemies with the punchthrough, it'd just get more and more efficient. Not to mention stagger, preamping your melee combo for even stronger Bladestorm strikes for further efficiency (and even keeping up your melee combo counter in the first place, so it doesn't drop, as Bladestorm doesn't help with that until it's finally launched you know?) etc. I don't see why it'd not be good enough?

3) A bit forced, but not a bad one (after all, you can't do anything while Bladestorming, so it kind of makes sense). I could agreed with this, for sure.

4) Only if you are looking at them from an offensive PoV. Teleport (freeaim or not) can greatly aid you with mobility, Bladestorm cannot.
Offensively, yes, they maybe feel a tad redundant. Hence the suggestions of briefly boosting him up after using Teleport, making it freeaim (and wall-latch, come on, that's kind of awesome, no?) and make the finisher-stun be in an AoE (to alleviate the issues of "hitting" enemies with it, it potentially being a freeaim skill and all)
That way, Teleport is mainly about mobility, but also a bit of a selfbuff and a CC/damagetool. Bladestorm, on the other hand, stays as his main AoE offensive tool.

Technically, to clarify its role, you could make it so Teleport is JUST a mobility and selfbuffing tool, while Smoke Screen and/or Shuriken is the tool(s) which you use to set up enemies for finishers.

5) Agreed (to an extent) about multishurikens. Simply throwing a bunch more Shurikens per cast doesn't solve a thing in regards to its redundancy. But giving the skill more utility, and some more control over it (hence why adding ONE more is fine, as long as it isn't another homing one) while keeping the homing capabilities is something I don't see anyone disagreeing with, really.
I strongly disagreed about that passive though (I hate pidgeonholing passives, such as Excalibur's. It's anti-variety)
Also strongly disagreed about scrapping Teleport (and a bit eh about another Exalted weapon replacing Bladestorm). Yes, it feels redundant, offensively (even if Covert Lethailty teleport-finishers has a place too), but it gives nice mobility (the flip he does is a bit counterproductive for that purpose though, so removing it, or at least GREATLY speeding up that animation would be very nice).

6) Mobile and aggressive stealther with a strong melee emphasis, a.k.a. a ninja assassin, pretty much. Hence why I suggested the things I did:

* Shuriken's main role is as a ranged utility / set-up-the-kill tool. It staggers enemies, it potentially amps your melee (with the combo counter) and/or easily keeps the counter from not falling off, it softens them up with some bleed damage (even more so a softener with the augment) and aids your Bladestorm marking. Onehanded cast means it has that mobile vibe too.
* Smoke Screen's main role is to aid him with survivability (stealth and stagger), but also greatly aids his melee power. If it reduced enemy accuracy, it also has the benefit of helping teammates' survivability as well (further so with the augment). Once again, the onehanded cast makes him keep that mobile feel.
* Teleport's (if freeaim) main role is as a mobility tool, used both as a gap-closer and for escaping (great for hit-and-run approaches, especially when combined with Smoke Screen), while also a potential "assassination" and/or minor CC tool (AoE finisherstun, which also allows TEAMMATES to do some stronger meleehitting too). Speeding up his melee attackspeed is a further obvious melee-emphasized boost.
* Bladestorm's main role is to kill. It's his main actual (multi)killing tool, the ability with which you finish off what the other abilities help him prepare for. Smoke Screen let's you mark safely, Shuriken helps with marking + keeping up the melee combocounter, Teleport aids the suggested added proximity-AoE marking as well as gives you a speedboost to the Bladestorm attacks.

Taking an honest look on those suggestions, the only skill I can still see being a bit on the weak / redundant side, is Shuriken, despite all the utilities (I'd use it more often though, mainly for the snap CC, that's for certain)

But the other 3 skills DEFINITELY (even right NOW in-game) are not bad nor redundant at all.
 

Edited November 29, 2016 by Azamagon

[Gurpgork]

1 hour ago, Azamagon said:

Note: If shurikens free-of-energy-marked enemies, and if you had a 3rd shuriken (the one with puncthrough) and struck just ONE target with that shuriken, you'd get 3 marks (since the 2 homing ones are very likely to strike something too) for the cost of 25 energy (i.e. 8,33 energy/target), meaning it'd be slightly more efficient at marking enemies than Bladestorm's manual targetting, while adding some damage to boot. Now, if you would strike multiple enemies with the punchthrough, it'd just get more and more efficient. Not to mention stagger, preamping your melee combo for even stronger Bladestorm strikes for further efficiency (and even keeping up your melee combo counter in the first place, so it doesn't drop, as Bladestorm doesn't help with that until it's finally launched you know?) etc. I don't see why it'd not be good enough?

I think this is an idea that needs to be handled with care, or else you get the opposite problem: Shuriken completely eclipsing the need to manually mark targets with Blade Storm itself. Why would I use Blade Storm's default marking option when I can just spam Shuriken instead to do some damage on the side while having a lower energy cost?

I think that would require that either the mark cost deducted from your energy pool in addition to the energy cost of Shuriken for each enemy hit, or that only one of the Shurikens marks targets for Blade Storm. Unless you plan on removing the manual marking and making Shuriken the sole way to mark targets for Blade Storm, but that feels like more artificial synergy. 

[Azamagon]

2 minutes ago, Gurpgork said:

I think this is an idea that needs to be handled with care, or else you get the opposite problem: Shuriken completely eclipsing the need to manually mark targets with Blade Storm itself. Why would I use Blade Storm's default marking option when I can just spam Shuriken instead to do some damage on the side while having a lower energy cost?

I think that would require that either the mark cost deducted from your energy pool in addition to the energy cost of Shuriken for each enemy hit, or that only one of the Shurikens marks targets for Blade Storm. Unless you plan on removing the manual marking and making Shuriken the sole way to mark targets for Blade Storm, but that feels like more artificial synergy. 

Good point.

But, there is something else too: The manual Bladestorm marking (considering my suggested AoE-proximity marking + the cone of field marking), is WAY faster to perform, and never fails to mark. Shurikens, on the other hand, have travel time and slight cooldown between casts (so, it's slower), and the shurikens may even miss (especially the manually aimed one), so there is a clear risk/reward involved. But if you are willing to take the time, it can be more efficient to use the Shuriken, that was the intention at least.

That said, BS-marking with Shurikens is maybe not the best idea after all? Then, what else could be added?
This is the suggested ideas I've had for it:
* Add 3rd shuriken, straightflying and with punchthrough (adds control, and possible reward for being used well)
* Stagger or short stun-effect (snap CC is always useful)
* Adds to the combo counter, as well as benefits from it (useful for his melee-centric kit)
* Damage could benefit from stealth (not necessary, but at least gives it Smoke Screen synergy)

What else/instead could it get?
* Blind? A bit redundant, considering Smoke Screen. Although helpful for the team at least *shrugs*
* Something I mentioned real quick in a response to Arch: If Teleport was more focused on being an ability about awesome mobility (and possibly selfbuffing), Shuirken could possibly take over the finisher-stun thing.
* Melee modscaling? With its autoaim + the suggested 3rd straightflying punchthrough shuriken, it could have potential for being a oretty decent killing tool. But then Bladestorm could potentially become redundant instead.
* A simple damage-amp? Boring, but clearly useful.
* Complete replacement? What would that be then?

More ideas?

[Azamagon]

2 minutes ago, Gurpgork said:

I think this is an idea that needs to be handled with care, or else you get the opposite problem: Shuriken completely eclipsing the need to manually mark targets with Blade Storm itself. Why would I use Blade Storm's default marking option when I can just spam Shuriken instead to do some damage on the side while having a lower energy cost?

I think that would require that either the mark cost deducted from your energy pool in addition to the energy cost of Shuriken for each enemy hit, or that only one of the Shurikens marks targets for Blade Storm. Unless you plan on removing the manual marking and making Shuriken the sole way to mark targets for Blade Storm, but that feels like more artificial synergy. 

Good point.

But, there is something else too: The manual Bladestorm marking (considering my suggested AoE-proximity marking + the cone of field marking), is WAY faster to perform, and never fails to mark. Shurikens, on the other hand, have travel time and slight cooldown between casts (so, it's slower), and the shurikens may even miss (especially the manually aimed one), so there is a clear risk/reward involved. But if you are willing to take the time, it can be more efficient to use the Shuriken, that was the intention at least.

That said, BS-marking with Shurikens is maybe not the best idea after all? Then, what else could be added?
This is the suggested ideas I've had for it:
* Add 3rd shuriken, straightflying and with punchthrough (adds control, and possible reward for being used well)
* Stagger or short stun-effect (snap CC is always useful)
* Adds to the combo counter, as well as benefits from it (useful for his melee-centric kit)
* Damage could benefit from stealth (not necessary, but at least gives it Smoke Screen synergy)

What else/instead could it get?
* Blind? A bit redundant, considering Smoke Screen. Although helpful for the team at least *shrugs*
* Something I mentioned real quick in a response to Arch: If Teleport was more focused on being an ability about awesome mobility (and possibly selfbuffing), Shuirken could possibly take over the finisher-stun thing.
* Melee modscaling? With its autoaim + the suggested 3rd straightflying punchthrough shuriken, it could have potential for being a oretty decent killing tool. But then Bladestorm could potentially become redundant instead.
* A simple damage-amp? Boring, but clearly useful.
* Complete replacement? What would that be then?

More ideas?

[RunningTree3]

On 11/20/2016 at 2:20 PM, Archwizard said:

Fireball has combo timer, with each hit increasing its Range, Strength, and Efficiency. On the third hit, Fireball leaves behind a fire patch that continuously burns the target.

Fireball. I am all in for combo-casting.

Possibly combine with Accelerant, casting Fireball upon a debuffed enemy could cause a small area Blast proc -- maybe stepping on original Fire Blast and Firequake.

On 11/21/2016 at 6:39 AM, Archwizard said:

World on Fire now empowers all Heat status effects within range, causing them to melt enemy armor based on a percentage of their damage burn nearby enemies for their duration, and causing all fire patches Ember has placed to detonate for additional damage. However, gouts of flame now only form whenever Ember is stationary.

Since the Ash Revisit, I have come to see similarities in the problem of Fireball/World on Fire with Shuriken/Blade Storm. Namely, how they can be functionally different. This is where I feel combo-casting can resolve the 'poor performance' of Fireball.

/insert reference from another thread:

 

On 11/21/2016 at 11:14 AM, RunningTree3 said:

Comparatively, for 25 energy, Ember can cast a single Fireball for 400 base damage, or half an instance of World on Fire for 400 base damage towards 2 to 5 enemies each. Granted, Fireball has a small blast radius and a higher proc chance; but then Fire Blast also performs a guaranteed Heat proc in a wider area, out-competing Fireball in every aspect.

If, hypothetically, Fireball even had combo-casting bonuses (ala Landslide,Charge,Ripline) [snip]  this could easily put the ability on equal footing amongst her kit.

 

For WoF: Seeing as even the devs thought a Blade Storm 'World on Fire" style was unacceptable, it really highlights how World on Fire itself might be unacceptable -- as in it auto-targets mobs. The times I have had to ask squadmates to turn off WoF because it was simply feeding an Ancient Healer (sounds entirely similar to Blade Storm stuck in futility on an Ancient Disruptor). This indiscriminate targeting is what made old Peacemaker, old Blade Storm, old Miasma problematic game experiences (although Miasma had its own negative duration issue).

The idea of fire patches is interesting. Personally, I would love to see World on Fire to draw inspiration from the Hyekka Master. But for Ember, it could be about randomly but periodically exploding patches of the environment into a lingering fire hazard. Sure, 'random' might feel like Hydroid's Tempest Barrage, but at least the lingering patches and the ability to continuously create new patches could very well offset potential issues with this. And Firequake itself would be retained this way from the explosion.

Edited November 30, 2016 by RunningTree3

[(PSN)SentientSickness]

what Vauban needs in my opinion 

 

[--Q--uaint]

@Archwizard Small note for the OP: Nyx's Psychic Bolts augment is Pacifying Bolts, not Disarming Bolts.

Excal:

An idea for how Radial Javelin might be made to scale: RJ consumes the combo counter, and each javelin is boosted by a % of your melee weapon's current modded damage per melee strike consumed. Instead of merely getting a 3x damage boost from your 140-hit combo, you get 140*%*melee damage added to each javelin's damage. That sounds like it might actually scale pretty well. (Furious Javelin makes the subsequent melee kills easier, and might even buff its own damage if you have melee combo for the second cast as well?!)
The number of javelins is also scales with your current melee attack speed.

This gives heavy melee users a smaller number of more punishing javelins, and light melee users more javelins that do less damage. There's also implicit synergy with Exalted Blade since it's stronger and/or faster than basically every normal melee.

Ash:

I don't play him too much, and haven't touched him since the rework, but I have some thoughts (all of which are probably silly?)

New passive: Ash now has the opposite of Atlas's passive; he's immune to knockdowns while airborne.
I feel like this fits with the assassin theme: when Ash is going in for the kill, nothing short of death will stop him.

Shuriken gets a third shuriken that goes straight and has punchthrough, and its DoT gets upgraded to where Bladestorm's was/is.

Smoke Screen is fine, though I'd like to see air-casting it make you do a ground-slam. (maybe doing your melee's ground-slam damage scaled with power strength and range?)

Teleport now grants a melee attack speed buff, and blinds enemies in a 5-7m radius.

Bladestorm's DoT is nerfed or removed, but it now duplicates all Slash procs currently on the target. This creates a new flow: you run around targeting enemies with BS, and shuriken the priority targets right before you activate.

Ember:

Ohey, I got a new brainwave for her. This idea assumes Heat procs are fully stackable.

Fireball gets a combo counter with its strength/efficiency boosts. It also gets a range-scaled AoE of 5-7m, and a guaranteed Heat proc

Fire Blast no longer has the wave as a base function, but generates it when you cast another Fire Blast on top of another one. The wave will deal the full power of the remaining damage ticks of the currently-existing fire ring. Fire Blast also gains Blessing-style damage reduction for allies within its radius.
The augment is the same, but applies to the wave as well. It also grants immunity to all Heat damage while inside the ring.

World on Fire's current effects are removed.
It grants a forced Heat proc to all weapon damage Ember deals, based on the damage done.
Unrestricted by range, any time a Heat proc that Ember made expires or the bearer dies, it causes an explosion of Heat damage based on its damage with WoF's current damage added on top.

[Blakrana]

16 hours ago, Gurpgork said:

I don't see a reason why Ash can't blend the two. He could have two offensive abilities and two defensive abilities, with the offensive ones being more along the lines of Ryu Hyabusa and the defensive ones being more like the "traditional" ninja. I'm getting this hit-and-run idea of what Ash could be, possessing both tools to get himself in and out of danger. 

I think Smokescreen could have an adjustment to be more of a CC-focused ability with the bonus of invisibility, both to set it apart from other invisibility skills and to give Ash some much-needed crowd control. Make it a big smoke cloud that blinds enemies inside it and makes Ash invisible for a few seconds. 

As for Teleport, I'm thinking that maybe it could be a gap opener instead of a gap closer. Make it teleport him straight backwards (at a shorter distance) that ends with a pseudo-aim glide that lets him target enemies for Blade Storm. This could either be an interaction with Smokescreen that changes it, or it could be an augment, or it could just be a rework of the ability.

Then maybe adjust Shuriken and Blade Storm's damage values. Give Shuriken the big DoT that Blade Storm currently has, then give Blade Storm high initial damage and low damage over time, making sure that Shuriken does more damage total than Blade Storm. Also, make Blade Storm a series of very fast attacks, rather than the slow, nauseating finisher animations. 

I think this would make Ash's strategy go something like this: Use Blade Storm to clear trash mobs quickly with high initial damage, then use Shuriken to finish off survivors. Use Smokescreen + Teleport to get out of sticky situations and to prep another Blade Storm. Each tool now has its own distinct purpose.

Well put. A Blitzer Ash could be an interesting role; get in, hit hard, get out. Or if not hit hard, dash through marking stunned mobs then get out and dispose from a spot of safety.

Teleport might be tricky though, what with the terrain variations possibly getting one stuck in a crate but (inaccurate understanding likely to follow) I suspect it could work like Tracer's 'GTFO' skill, whatever it's called? (Don't play Overwatch so no idea).

Not too sure about Shuriken or Bladestorm numbers wise but certainly agree making the execution of the latter faster is a necessity. Sure...it looks cool but...it can look cool but be swift as well. I mean the old 'attack so fast didn't see anything, suddenly everything falls over dead' thing would fit Ash very well I think. Shuriken definitely needs a function though.

Either rate, sorry for going on.

[Endless_Destruction]

Ember idea that is really out there, but here goes:

1. Fireball-Completely removed. Accelerant takes its place. It makes sense to me, because it is a "preparatory" move, a support for fire damage that comes later.
2. Fire Blast- Now a #2 power. Its current blast away and the remaining (underwhelming) ring of fire don't feel powerful as a 3.
3. 3rd power slot holds a not-nearly-as-strong World on Fire, possibly taking on characteristics mentioned in the thread, but with lowered base damage.
4. Ultimate is a rework of Fireball, name pending: Ember holsters her weapons, and goes bare handed, spawning a fire ball in each fist. Quick melee allows her to deliver a flame punch, while LMB throws an empowered version of the current fireball. RMB+LMB delivers a continuous, linear flame blast, possibly with some AoE damage on impact. The idea is a flame-mage-themed, interactive ultimate. It strikes me as a really cool idea for ember to completely throw herself into her element.

Ash idea for Shuriken

1. Have it be a "semi-exalted" weapon-it acts as a throwing secondary weapon, replacing your own, scaling off secondary mods, and working as an additional BS marking tool, only it adds all 3 marks at once for free (only energy cost is that of Shuriken throw), if in BS marking mode. If not, it is just a nice source of additional damage.
2. It will consume energy based on throw.
3. The shurikens can have punchthrough, allowing it to be an efficient marking tool, should the user choose to wield it so.

The idea there was to have a useful, interesting part of Ash's kit to pack a much larger punch, allowing it to (somewhat) step out of BS's shadow. There is synergy between it and BS, but it isn't forced, just a nice addition.

Hopefully these have some merit, please take a look.

Edited December 1, 2016 by Endless_Destruction
Added Ash stuff

[Buzkyl]

I've been playing with this idea of a slight zephyr tweak in my head. She's not a bad frame but is very outdated and can use some sprucing up to our new Parkour system.

Zephyr

Passive Change- While in the air, Zephyr attacks do 30% more damage. (Her old passive will be merged into the new Tailwind)

Tailwind- Zephyr empowers her movement with the powers of the wind. Granting her increased agility and decreased gravity.

While toggled this ability while active will grant zephyr:

• Decrease Gravity due to her manipulation of air currents around her
• Heavily increased turning control during aimglide
• Increase in Bullet Jump length and double jump height.

If an enemy is killed while she's in the air with this skilled active, Zephyr will gain 1 Bullet Jump and a small % to regain 1 double jump as well. Kills while airborne will also replenish 20% of her total aimglide duration.

The skills boosts zephyr main aspects of mobility and allows her to stay in the air longer, it also allows her to remain in the air to benefit off her new passive. It also

Considerations

• Bulletjump length and and double jump height can be affected by strength mods but negative power strength will not drop them below base warframe values. This is to prevent zephyr from have a 1M Bulletjump on range builds.
• Effect radius of Jumps  can be affected by range mods.
• Turning increase, decrease gravity and aimglide restoration  i'm not sure should or shouldn't be affected by mods
• Bonus Bullet Jumps and double jumps should be displayed by a counter. For balance reasons, should probably have a static cap value (10 for each?)

 

 

[--Q--uaint]

1 hour ago, Endless_Destruction said:

Fireball-Completely removed. Accelerant takes its place. It makes sense to me, because it is a "preparatory" move, a support for fire damage that comes later.

Accelerant is far too strong for a first power, and also isn't useful unless you can already do Heat damage.

If anything, I'd move Fire Blast to #1 and maybe nerf its damage a bit.

1 hour ago, Endless_Destruction said:

Ultimate is a rework of Fireball, name pending: Ember holsters her weapons, and goes bare handed, spawning a fire ball in each fist. Quick melee allows her to deliver a flame punch, while LMB throws an empowered version of the current fireball. RMB+LMB delivers a continuous, linear flame blast, possibly with some AoE damage on impact. The idea is a flame-mage-themed, interactive ultimate. It strikes me as a really cool idea for ember to completely throw herself into her element.

I don't really like the idea of making everyone an exalted-weapon frame. That said, having an exalted gun/melee combo would be interesting.

1 hour ago, Endless_Destruction said:

Shuriken

1. Have it be a "semi-exalted" weapon-it acts as a throwing secondary weapon, replacing your own, scaling off secondary mods, and working as an additional BS marking tool, only it adds all 3 marks at once for free (only energy cost is that of Shuriken throw), if in BS marking mode. If not, it is just a nice source of additional damage.
2. It will consume energy based on throw.
3. The shurikens can have punchthrough, allowing it to be an efficient marking tool, should the user choose to wield it so.

Hmmm. I actually like the idea of an exalted first power... but it really shouldn't also mark targets for Bladestorm. That would be a little weird and a little OP.

Also, it might end up being energy-positive since you mark the enemy for free and mark energy costs are refunded when the target dies. Which would be hilarious.

[Endless_Destruction]

10 hours ago, ChronoEclipse said:

Accelerant is far too strong for a first power, and also isn't useful unless you can already do Heat damage.

If anything, I'd move Fire Blast to #1 and maybe nerf its damage a bit.

Understandable. I just wanted to get rid of fireball to make room for the new ult.

10 hours ago, ChronoEclipse said:

I don't really like the idea of making everyone an exalted-weapon frame. That said, having an exalted gun/melee combo would be interesting.

I didn't want an exalted weapon, I wanted an exalted frame, so to speak. An exalted weapon would be summoning a giant flamethrower, but instead of summoning an exalted melee (Excalibur, et al), or an exalted secondary (Mesa), or an exalted primary (Ivara), I thought that Ember could (sort of) summon an exalted version of herself, her frame. The idea was to make a very powerful, but interactive ultimate, so I chose the Excaliroute of getting rid of #1, nerfing the current boring ultimate and giving it space #3, and adding an entirely new, cooler, better ultimate.

10 hours ago, ChronoEclipse said:

Hmmm. I actually like the idea of an exalted first power... but it really shouldn't also mark targets for Bladestorm. That would be a little weird and a little OP.

Also, it might end up being energy-positive since you mark the enemy for free and mark energy costs are refunded when the target dies. Which would be hilarious.

Just wanted a little bit of synergy (now that you mentioned it, it seemed a bit forced) between separate powers, but yeah, didn't think about energy refunds. Maybe not an exalted weapon per se, but a given number of Shurikens (number dependent on power strength, given own stats and scaling off secondary mods) that Ash gets in lieu of his secondary, and can throw at will.

[--Q--uaint]

17 minutes ago, Endless_Destruction said:

I didn't want an exalted weapon, I wanted an exalted frame, so to speak.

That's actually a lot like Arch's Phoenix ability proposal. Or Razorwing.

Then again, you could just give her a bit of a revamp/change to everything her 'frame does... weapons included. It should probably just drain over time like EB does?

Primary: chargeable, boosted version of Fireball. The non-self-damaging Ogris you always wanted.
Secondary: wide-angle flamethrower effect
Melee: works normally, but has bonus Heat damage in the form of her weapontrails persisting in the air for ~15 seconds and dealing Heat to anything that encounters them. Channeled strikes carry a guaranteed Heat proc.
Blocking restores energy based on the damage blocked; less than the cost of channel-blocking that same damage.
Running and parkour speed are boosted by a power stat.
Bulletjumps have a Hulked-out version of Firewalker applied (which stacks with current bulletjump mods for combined-elemental damage?!).

28 minutes ago, Endless_Destruction said:

Maybe not an exalted weapon per se, but a given number of Shurikens (number dependent on power strength, given own stats and scaling off secondary mods) that Ash gets in lieu of his secondary, and can throw at will.

That seems like the standard exalted weapon formula. This gives me an interesting idea, though:

The 25-energy cost is per reload. You can freely swap away from the Shuriken, and use all of your normal weapons. Pressing 1 again will instantly (no time delay or animation) give you your Shuriken clip at its last level of ammo for no energy cost.
The weapon itself is a pretty standard throwing weapon, maybe a little above-average in stats but nothing huge... but it has a side-buff like guaranteed slash procs or homing.

That seems pretty balanced to me.