Retune *all* The Frames! (11/19: Wildfire)

[Aquasurge]

18 minutes ago, ChronoEclipse said:

Would you mind rephrasing that? I'm not sure what you mean.

 

Some random thoughts for Mirage, inspired by this post: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/652655-mirage-rework-concept/?do=findComment&comment=7309907

Her #1 and #2 could be swapped, in exchange for HoM getting all five clones able to attack at once. I think this is an unlikely change, though.

 

Sleight of Hand is replaced with Glimmering Veil. It is a channeled Quiver-style ability, having two modes (dark and light). Dark-mode blinds any enemy who damages you for 2/3/4/5 seconds, and light-mode has a 10/15/20/25% reload speed boost and SoH’s effects on everything in a 4/6/8/10 meter radius.
The channeled cost would be low, and active dark/light modes would force dark/light effects on her other skills.

Prism now begins emitting beams as soon as the cast animation starts. Damage type while in the light is Fire, damage type while in the dark is Radiation. Proc chance is 10% in light and 25% in the dark per second, scaling with Power Strength.

as in like you could have slightly under whelming scaling but all abilities would be cheaper than usual, hence, it encourages you to use negative efficiency but doesn't force you to build for it. and yeah, i like the changes you suggested to mirage, but it would be nice if she could create afterimages when you move. on the other hand, glimmering veil's light and dark modes effects could be swapped or use some fine tuning. Then again, mirage isn't a tank.

Edited May 29, 2016 by Aquasurge

[--Q--uaint]

15 minutes ago, Aquasurge said:

as in like you could have slightly under whelming scaling but all abilities would be cheaper than usual,

Would you mind defining exactly what you mean by “scaling?”

15 minutes ago, Aquasurge said:

it encourages you to use negative efficiency but doesn’t force you to do it

Sure, I guess. I always thought it was a little wacky that you could mod Ash and Rhino to not even be able to cast their #4 at all (45% efficiency means 155 energy cost > 150 energy max).

I think this thread has addressed the energy overflow/underflow issue pretty well, though I feel that perhaps some abilities (Fireball and Shock come to mind) could use a reduction in their energy cost overall rather than getting a comboing mechanic.

22 minutes ago, Aquasurge said:

glimmering veil’s light and dark modes effects could be swapped or use some fine tuning

I originally had them swapped, but then I realized how asynergistic it would be. Dark-mode gives her the ability to rely on Eclipse’s 95% DR, and gives her a small amount of effectively-free CC as well. Light-mode gives her a little less downtime in her onslaught of gun-murder (while guaranteeing Eclipse buffs her damage) and retains the effect of SoH.

I think the stuff here looks workable, but you are free to offer suggestions :V

27 minutes ago, Aquasurge said:

mirage isn’t a tank.

Mirage is totally a decent tank as long as she’s in the dark. Glimmering Veil would give her the consistency she needs to actually be pretty good at tanking.

[Aquasurge]

3 minutes ago, ChronoEclipse said:

Would you mind defining exactly what you mean by “scaling?”

Sure, I guess. I always thought it was a little wacky that you could mod Ash and Rhino to not even be able to cast their #4 at all (45% efficiency means 155 energy cost > 150 energy max).

I think this thread has addressed the energy overflow/underflow issue pretty well, though I feel that perhaps some abilities (Fireball and Shock come to mind) could use a reduction in their energy cost overall rather than getting a comboing mechanic.

as in mod scaling to become slightly more effective, for frames with a caster based style to them. and yes this thread has addressed energy economy pretty well, but frames that rely on continually casting abilities should be encourage to do so (without breaking the game for it to be nerfed).

Edited May 29, 2016 by Aquasurge

[Aquasurge]

25 minutes ago, ChronoEclipse said:

 

I originally had them swapped, but then I realized how asynergistic it would be. Dark-mode gives her the ability to rely on Eclipse’s 95% DR, and gives her a small amount of effectively-free CC as well. Light-mode gives her a little less downtime in her onslaught of gun-murder (while guaranteeing Eclipse buffs her damage) and retains the effect of SoH.

I think the stuff here looks workable, but you are free to offer suggestions :V

Mirage is totally a decent tank as long as she’s in the dark. Glimmering Veil would give her the consistency she needs to actually be pretty good at tanking.

some good points there. i'll do some cool researching....

i find this site helps when it comes to creating ideas for powers:

http://powerlisting.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Search?search=light&fulltext=Search

http://powerlisting.wikia.com/wiki/Illusion

but one thing that does come to mind is a laser death ray... oh wait that's prism.(lol)

otherwise rainbows? (insert leprechaun puns here)

or a oasis mirage that attracts enemies? otherwise, prism's lasers and/or blind should reflect off shiny surfaces (the true definition of LoS)

Edited May 29, 2016 by Aquasurge

[RealPandemonium]

8 hours ago, ChronoEclipse said:

If they are to be an alternative to gunplay, that means they need to be spammable. The powers we have are rather OP when spammed. Thoughts?

I agree that they shouldn’t be necessary to complete missions; that would restrict freedom of choice. However, I think powers should be at least a major focus of the game, since they and Parkour 2.0 are what really sets the game apart.

I think that being able to cast powers relatively freely (AKA max efficiency) is not a bad thing.  EV, Zenurik, and pizzas let us go completely crazy, which is excessive and just bandaids/trivializes the energy resource in general.  The biggest issue with powerspam is that it allows us to trivialize gameplay.  Powers that were designed to be cast occasionally or to affect relatively few enemies, or last a brief while now can be cast freely, affect massive numbers of enemies, and have effectively 100% uptime.  These powers must be changed so that they do not trivialize gameplay when they are freely available with the current mods.

Powers are cool, but the game shouldn't be totally balanced around their existence, as Sorties/Raids and endless missions are now.  Part of this probably means toning down the quantity of enemies and making them more thoughtful to fight.  If DE implements Damage 3.0 and brings both player and enemy power down to reasonable levels, this will be a lot easier to accomplish without further drastic changes.  

[tnccs215]

I do not know if this has already been proposed, and I've already posted it on its own topic. however, in fear that it will get lost in pages and pages of enraged commments, I have to come here too: what do you think of Magnetize being able of absorbing shrapnels beyond its bubble range? I think it is a quite good and almost necessary complement to increase the synergy between her powers.

[taiiat]

12 hours ago, ChronoEclipse said:

Her #1 and #2 could be swapped, in exchange for HoM getting all five clones able to attack at once. I think this is an unlikely change, though.

not going to happen because Hall of Mirrors was changed that way for performance reasons, not balance reasons.
to compensate the Clones deal a larger Percentage of Damage, so no Damage capability was technically lost. we'll all be sad about spamming this or that thing but Mirage has always been a nightmare because of Hall of Mirrors, causes performance problems with like - everything. :p

 

also i like some of the things with Sleight of Hand (and it's utility could actually be useful, if made more consistent. Corpus Doors regenning Energy and Electric Stunning Enemies is sweet, but that's the only useful door related thing it has, the Grineer version does basically nothing.)

5 hours ago, RealPandemonium said:

I think that being able to cast powers relatively freely (AKA max efficiency) is not a bad thing.

absolutely. with how Warframe is, Players should be able to cast Abilities when they need to, just not all the time as a proactive 'wipe the galaxy before i get to it' nature.
Warframe is definitely not Mech Warrior - that being said, Ability use should still involve some Player thought if you ask me - trying to find that balance point between being able to cast when necessary but still feeling like you shouldn't cast willy nilly is where we should be IMO.

 

4 minutes ago, tnccs215 said:

what do you think of Magnetize being able of absorbing shrapnels beyond its bubble range? I think it is a quite good and almost necessary complement to increase the synergy between her powers.

absolutely - in the same vein as affected Enemies i'd say, in that Enemies outside the bubble are still dragged towards it - do the same for the Shrapnel. doesn't immediately fly in, but still gets there eventually.

[tnccs215]

2 minutes ago, taiiat said:

also i like some of the things with Sleight of Hand (and it's utility could actually be useful, if made more consistent. Corpus Doors regenning Energy and Electric Stunning Enemies is sweet, but that's the only useful door related thing it has, the Grineer version does basically nothing.)

Don't forget the Turrets. Quite incredible on Rescue Sorties.

Also, has anyone tested its effect on Ramparts?

 

additionally, thanks for the support.

[Blakrana]

19 hours ago, tnccs215 said:

Also, has anyone tested its effect on Ramparts?

If, judging by the context of recent posts, this refers to Magnetise...it is quite effective to shut down Ramparts once something's trying to use it. Though it is a little risky trying to get the bead before they do. If Sleight of Hand...can't comment, mostly been fiddling with our other representatives of the Electromagnetic Spectrum when I've been on so far. Though by rights, Sleight of Hand should do something to the fuction of Ramparts in all fairness if it doesn't.

Still, as for your general 'greater shrapnel absorption range' thought, I think that'd be reasonable considering how small an area Magnetise covers in itself. Not sure what to make of its general strength as CC, seeing as enemies can exit the field...it's a potent skill, either way.

20 hours ago, taiiat said:

Ability use should still involve some Player thought if you ask me - trying to find that balance point between being able to cast when necessary but still feeling like you shouldn't cast willy nilly is where we should be IMO.

Agreed.

For sake of analogy...just because one can call forth a Greater Elemental, doesn't mean it's always the best thing...such as if you need to keep a low profile/prevent the public getting even more panicked (_{Playing summoners in RPs can be entertaining like that}), or save it for a better pay off. If we can get our powers to have that kind of 'weight' to them when used, so...Spam can be done, but a well thought out approach will generally have better returns.

Of course, that's easier said than done.

[KingSolir]

On 5/25/2016 at 3:35 PM, Archwizard said:

... Last I checked, Chroma was already a pretty viable frame. Yes, Spectral Scream leaves much to be desired, but he has phenomenal scalability between Vex Armor and Elemental Ward.

yes but only with tons of power strength against 100+ enemies, he has no crowd control, i cant really take any of those mods off for an augment without severely nerfing his abilities horribly.

[Aquasurge]

I've been thinking recently, should DE implement a kind of tutorial for when you unlock a power for the first time? so when you first unlock the ability, it tells you what it does (in game) and then gives some suggestions (tips and tricks) on how to use it? it would really nice if the game was teach players  (who are picking up a new frame, regardless of their time playing Warframe) on how to use an ability then to just google it on the wiki.

Edited May 31, 2016 by Aquasurge

[taiiat]

8 hours ago, Aquasurge said:

I've been thinking recently, should DE implement a kind of tutorial for when you unlock a power for the first time? so when you first unlock the ability, it tells you what it does (in game) and then gives some suggestions (tips and tricks) on how to use it? it would really nice if the game was teach players  (who are picking up a new frame, regardless of their time playing Warframe) on how to use an ability then to just google it on the wiki.

that would be great - in a theoretical world where it would actually explain the Ability.
but instead, you'll get a 'press this button and stuff happens' sort of explanation.

[Archwizard]

So, one of the big things that has given players grief over the past few days is that Nyx's passive is basically an uncontrollable copy-paste of Radial Disarm, which actively hampers her ability to turn foes against one another.

Today I'd like to take some time to address some of Nyx's core issues, with some edits I made to the OP:

• For starters, Nyx's passive is now activated by dealing direct damage ("direct" eliminating damage from minions or status effects), rather than on activation of an ability. This allows the effect to actually function as a passive effect of simply wearing the frame, and addresses issues players have with attempting to take control of enemies; now you can direct the effect simply by not damaging targets.
• Second, Nyx's passive no longer inflicts Disarm, turning her into a blatant clone of Loki. Instead, it puts foes to Sleep; oddly for someone whose specialty is crowd control, she lacks any way to lock down enemies.
• Third, to tie it in with an ability that has been a problem for some time: the passive has a higher proc chance on a headshot, and Psychic Bolts will always headshot for increased damage. Fitting for someone whose forte is attacking her targets' minds. The fact that the ability fires multiple bolts also works in your favor, as it means more chances per target. Basically, it becomes damage+chance to sleep on an enemy, and temp-healing on an MC'd target - without directly overloading the effect, either.

Edited May 31, 2016 by Archwizard

[tnccs215]

 

 

9 minutes ago, Archwizard said:

So, one of the big things that has given players grief over the past few days is that Nyx's passive is basically an uncontrollable copy-paste of Radial Disarm, which actively hampers her ability to turn foes against one another.

Today I'd like to take some time to address some of Nyx's core issues, with some edits I made to the OP:

• For starters, Nyx's passive is now activated by dealing direct damage ("direct" eliminating damage from minions or status effects), rather than on activation of an ability. This allows the effect to actually function as a passive effect of simply wearing the frame, and addresses issues players have with attempting to take control of enemies; now you can direct the effect simply by not damaging targets.
• Second, Nyx's passive no longer inflicts Disarm, turning her into a blatant clone of Loki. Instead, it puts foes to Sleep; oddly for someone whose specialty is crowd control, she lacks any way to lock down enemies.
• Third, to tie it in with an ability that has been a problem for some time: the passive has a higher proc chance on a headshot, and Psychic Bolts will always headshot for increased damage. Fitting for someone whose forte is attacking her targets' minds. The fact that the ability fires multiple bolts also works in your favor, as it means more chances per target. Basically, it becomes damage+chance to sleep on an enemy, and temp-healing on an MC'd target - without directly overloading the effect, either.

dont hate it but... I dont know if there is a clear "chance value" that will make that passive relevant, but unexploitable.

Because Im already seeing people using simulor and other explosives to put entire tiles to sleep if the chance is too High, or for it to be entirely irrelevant if it is too low.

[Archwizard]

4 minutes ago, tnccs215 said:

dont hate it but... I dont know if there is a clear "chance value" that will make that passive relevant, but unexploitable.

Because Im already seeing people using simulor and other explosives to put entire tiles to sleep if the chance is too High, or for it to be entirely irrelevant if it is too low.

I figure ~15% on damage, ~25% on a headshot isn't so terrible. Successive headshots with PsyBolts have a stronger chance to do it.

[tnccs215]

4 minutes ago, Archwizard said:

I figure ~15% on damage, ~25% on a headshot isn't so terrible. Successive headshots with PsyBolts have a stronger chance to do it.

mh... You do have to take damage made on the same time frame as all the same, lest that will become 45% and 75% tops (with a secondary), and there are a lot of high fire rate secondaries that can send an unbeareable amount of bullets under a second-- I already can see a Hikou Prime equiped Nyx putting every enemy to sleep.

AmI being too harsh on people for not wanting them to have sleep effects for free?

Edited May 31, 2016 by tnccs215

[Archwizard]

1 minute ago, tnccs215 said:

AmI being too harsh on people for not wanting them to have sleep effects for free?

Considering that the sleep effect means fewer enemies are attacking through Chaos? I think we're fine.

[taiiat]

why is this a problem at all? just don't include Guns into the Passive.

problem solved. now just balance around how often Enemies hit by Bolts should have this effect (or hit by Absorb i guess. maybe Mind Control Targets' Guns?)

[Archwizard]

Just now, taiiat said:

why is this a problem at all? just don't include Guns into the Passive.

problem solved. now just balance around how often Enemies hit by Bolts should have this effect (or hit by Absorb i guess. maybe Mind Control Targets' Guns?)

Because if weapons aren't included, it's not a passive - just an effect of PsyBolts.

And it's a bit weird and arbitrary to say "melee attacks and Psychic Bolts".

[taiiat]

12 minutes ago, Archwizard said:

Because if weapons aren't included, it's not a passive - just an effect of PsyBolts.

more like 'just' an Effect of Bolts, Absorb, and the Enemy under Mind Control.

[Archwizard]

Simple solution would be, "direct damage" disqualifies explosive effects, or only qualifies them within a specific distance or something.

[RunningTree3]

2 hours ago, Archwizard said:

So, one of the big things that has given players grief over the past few days is that Nyx's passive is basically an uncontrollable copy-paste of Radial Disarm, which actively hampers her ability to turn foes against one another.

Today I'd like to take some time to address some of Nyx's core issues, with some edits I made to the OP:

• For starters, Nyx's passive is now activated by dealing direct damage ("direct" eliminating damage from minions or status effects), rather than on activation of an ability. This allows the effect to actually function as a passive effect of simply wearing the frame, and addresses issues players have with attempting to take control of enemies; now you can direct the effect simply by not damaging targets.
• Second, Nyx's passive no longer inflicts Disarm, turning her into a blatant clone of Loki. Instead, it puts foes to Sleep; oddly for someone whose specialty is crowd control, she lacks any way to lock down enemies.
• Third, to tie it in with an ability that has been a problem for some time: the passive has a higher proc chance on a headshot, and Psychic Bolts will always headshot for increased damage. Fitting for someone whose forte is attacking her targets' minds. The fact that the ability fires multiple bolts also works in your favor, as it means more chances per target. Basically, it becomes damage+chance to sleep on an enemy, and temp-healing on an MC'd target - without directly overloading the effect, either.

I like the idea of the direct damage condition, as it would include PsyBolts and Absorb, and the headshot higher proc chance.

Perhaps the effect is instead a temporary Fear, as in the already existing mechanic that comes from Nekros's Terrify to cause an enemy to run away (but without the armor reduction). It does not lock down enemies like Sleep, but in practice functions like both a temporary disarm or sleep anyway.

The Sleep mechanic also reminds me of the bug where, after a big ragdoll (ie. Sonicor), an enemy sometimes just continues to permanently lie on the ground like it "literally cannot even any more". This same effect is also seen temporarily when an asleep enemy is attacked, and simply collapses to the floor until Sleep wears out -- so in this state, yes, Sleep looks very much like a psychic attack.

I mention the Fear/Terrify mechanic because it is currently only seen in the one circumstance.

[Archwizard]

2 hours ago, RunningTree3 said:

as in the already existing mechanic

Said like Rest and Sleep Arrow don't have existing Sleep effects?

2 hours ago, RunningTree3 said:

I mention the Fear/Terrify mechanic because it is currently only seen in the one circumstance.

Kubrows have one.

Edited June 1, 2016 by Archwizard

[RunningTree3]

3 hours ago, Archwizard said:

Said like Rest and Sleep Arrow don't have existing Sleep effects?

Kubrows have one.

For clarity, I mean as also an existing mechanic. Indeed I had forgotten the Raksa Kubrow.

Even the Djinn's Fatal Attraction is a suitable effect.

I guess, considering them all as psychosomatic effects, I lean towards the more "psycho" than "somatic".

I would go so far as suggesting that on an enemy sighting Nyx, there could be a chance for any range of "mild psychic disturbances" to proc. Perhaps the other way around even; like Inaros's sarcophagus gaze, but instead Nyx's gaze (targeting reticle) having some effect.

Otherwise, the suggestions around for a permanent evasion modifier (ala Agility Drift) could be just as suitable.

[BeardyKyle]

On 3/20/2014 at 9:53 PM, Archwizard said:

Suggested changes:
- Smite strikes the target with a bolt from the heavens, inflicting Blind, Radiation/Impact status, and Radiation/Impact damage based on his melee weapon mods to the target and surrounding enemies within a small radius. No longer fires projectiles or inflicts Puncture status.
- Hallowed Ground replaced with “Guardian Oath”: Oberon increases his threat against surrounding enemies, compelling them to target him instead of his allies. Each enemy slain by Oberon under this effect will increase his maximum health, shields and armor based on a percentage of their own for the remainder of the Duration.
- Hallowed Eruption is now “Guardian Force”: Enemies killed by Oberon will release bursts of light, granting their health/shield/armor boosts to all nearby allies.
- Renewal no longer fires projectiles, increases bleedout or has an infinite distance; instead, Oberon periodically releases healing pulses over a distance affected by Power Range while toggled active. Allies within range also gain a flat amount of bonus armor from a percentage of Oberon's own, and are purged of all status effects. No longer has a maximum Duration, or ceases to affect players at maximum health. 
- Reckoning no longer inflicts Blind or guaranteed Confusion, or summons health orbs. Instead, survivors are debuffed for a Duration, causing any damage they deal to be dealt to them as Radiation damage, with a chance affected by Power Strength to inflict status.
- Base armor increased to match Frost and Rhino.
- Passive suggestions:

How's smite related to melee mods? rather the affected target deals radiation/impact to surrounding enemies in a small radius based off a percentage of that targets health/armor.  This helps it scale better and since smite is currently best used to target the strongest enemy in a group it would fit his gameplay. (Range and duration affecting the effect)

Hallowed Ground: Does this become an aura? or does oberon raise his threat level within the current hg area of effect? I'd suggest keep the name Hallowed Ground but make it a single pulse emitted on cast (similar to Molecular prime or polarize) Enemies affected: 1. will treat oberon as priority threat. 2. take radiation/impact damage over time. 3. deal reduced damage. 4. enemies slain increase armor/health/energy by a set percentage of oberon's base values for the duration. (affected by strength, range, duration)     

Hallowed eruption: would function the same dealing the remainder of the damage to each enemy affected plus a guaranteed radiation proc.

Renewal (This can be renamed to Guardian Oath): Keep the projectiles, bleedout reduction, infinite distance. With trinity's nerf and the affinity range icon I think this is a fair mechanic. 1. On initial heal: allies get status immunity that lasts for the duration. Duration is now affected positively by mods and does not end at full health. 2. At full heath: the heal over time increases armor at the same rate capped at 200. If you take damage the armor increase pauses until you are back at full health. If the ability ends the armor resets. Recasting while still active will not reset the armor bonus. Recasting while active and at full health will boost the armor by the initial health amount until capped.

Phoenix Renewal: When triggered will also deal a radial impact damage to surrounding enemies with 100% chance to knockdown and deal any stored armor as bonus puncture damage and resetting the armor bonus.

Reckoning: Keep the blind. Keep your radiation damage and debuff suggestion. Add an additional damage multiplier to enemies affected by hallowed ground and keep drop chance.

Agree 100% with base armor increase.

Passive:

His current passive is a fun thematic idea but a bit of a let down - its a lazy druid passive that you have no control over. Instead a more useful passive could be Oberon gains a buff depending on what companion he has: 1. Sentinel grants bonus shields/energy regen rate. 2. Kubrow grants bonus health/armor. 3. Kavat grants bonus movement speed or melee/stealth damage. Further, the type of Kubrow/Kavat/Sentinel could determine the bonus or have a secondary bonus.