Wouldn't The Tenno Primes Actually Be "bad Guys"....?

[Jathniel]

....assuming the Primes are supposed to be how the Tenno looked during the Orokin Era?

[Rorgal_Sina]

wut?

[Lunamaniac]

No more than we are now.

[Brimir]

There's nothing to indicate that the Orokin Emperors weren't evil tyrants anyway.

Edited March 21, 2014 by Brimir

[Llyssa]

It's mainly a production model. There seems to be a difference between tenno and warframes--consider how easily we can change frames, yet, that fact doesn't discourage hunters(g3/harvy/stalker) from recognizing us individually.

 

Apparently, we went on for some time after the orokin died out, so we made cheap knockoffs of the original designs. The cheap knockoffs are the regular frames we mass-produced, while the primes are original manufacturer models.

 

Other than that difference, no. We're not more or less evil with them. It's basically the difference between finding a vintage car and building a replica out of nanospores.

[Tuxie]

There's nothing to indicate that the Orokin Emperors weren't evil tyrants anyway.

 

Still no excuse to kill *everyone*

[LukeAura]

Tenno aren't "primes".
Warframes are "primes". The Frame is only a suit, it can not be evil. 

The Tenno, however we might control that suit, are the original Tenno from the Orokin era or descendants/different ones from the time period shortly after the fall. I would say this is almost a necessity to be true that we are Tenno from after the fall of the Orokin, but still from well in the past to need to be in Cryosleep, or else our starting choices would have to be the prime warframes we used.

So if the prime wielders are evil, all Tenno are probably evil.

[Brimir]

Still no excuse to kill *everyone*

 

The Tenno didn't kill *everyone*.

 

They slaughtered the Tenno Emperors during a ceremony, which caused the Orokin Empire to fall apart. They did not personally hunt down and kill every single Orokin around.

Edited March 21, 2014 by Brimir

[Lunamaniac]

The Tenno didn't kill *everyone*.

The Tenno still kill *everyone*.

[Brimir]

The Tenno still kill *everyone*.

 

Self-defense, naturally. The Sol System has a clear-cut "stand your ground" law.

 

:D

[XenosInfinity]

Self-defense, naturally. The Sol System has a clear-cut "stand your ground" law.

 

Following orders, actually.

The Orokin told us to wipe out the Sentients and bring balance to the system, in that order.

So we wiped out the Sentients, then balanced that by reducing the other side to zero as well.

[Morec0]

The Tenno didn't kill *everyone*.

 

They slaughtered the Tenno Emperors during a ceremony, which caused the Orokin Empire to fall apart. They did not personally hunt down and kill every single Orokin around.

 

They slaughtered the Orokin Emperors - I doubt any Tenno had the position they did. But we see no Orokin as they were anymore, so it seems to be they did remove enough of them that that part of the society (I'm of the mind Orokin were a part of society, not a separate race).

 

 

Self-defense, naturally. The Sol System has a clear-cut "stand your ground" law.

 

:D

 

I'll agree.

 

 

Following orders, actually.

The Orokin told us to wipe out the Sentients and bring balance to the system, in that order.

So we wiped out the Sentients, then balanced that by reducing the other side to zero as well.

 

I don't recall the Orokin giving us a balance order... Can you provide a link to where?

[Llyssa]

The Tenno didn't kill *everyone*.

 

They slaughtered the Tenno Emperors during a ceremony, which caused the Orokin Empire to fall apart. They did not personally hunt down and kill every single Orokin around.

We're not entirely sure they didn't kill everyone. The lore regarding that gives imagery to suggest we actually did slaughter every orokin we saw. The ults that day had enough bloom to blot out the sun as we massacred throngs of countless people gathered into massive stadiums for a celebration.

 

They came, they saw, we conquered.

 

It's entirely plausible that we didn't rest until every last orokin was dead, and that's WHY all of this expensive stuff is left completely empty and totally in-tact.

[Brimir]

The Orokin told us to wipe out the Sentients

 

Yes.

 

 

 and bring balance to the system, in that order.

 

There's no proof of that. The whole balance thing wasn't introduced until the Gradivarius Dilemma as a poor excuse to try and make sense of people aiding the Corpus. I doubt it has any bearing on the Orokin story arc whatsoever.

 

 

 

We're not entirely sure they didn't kill everyone. The lore regarding that gives imagery to suggest we actually did slaughter every orokin we saw. The ults that day had enough bloom to blot out the sun as we massacred throngs of countless people gathered into massive stadiums for a celebration.

 

Again, no. If you actually read the Stalker's Codex entry it makes it clear that the Tenno only killed the Orokin Emperors and their blood metaphorically flowed out on the crowd that had gathered there. There is zero evidence to support the theory that the Tenno then went on a giant genocide spree. Zero.

 

Also, there is just one stadium involved. One.

 

 

But we see no Orokin as they were anymore, so it seems to be they did remove enough of them that that part of the society (I'm of the mind Orokin were a part of society, not a separate race).

 

 

That's because the Orokin Empire crumbled and the survivors most likely devolved into various different factions as a result, with the Grineer and Corpus eventually coming out as top dogs.

 

Lets make it clear - the lore only states that the Orokin Empire fell. It does not state that the Orokin were made extinct.

Edited March 21, 2014 by Brimir

[Rakosta_Kai]

We don't know because we don't remember.

[NightmareT12]

The Tenno have never been the bad guys, more like the Orokin Emperors and society started to grow corrupt. Tenno don't remember, but then again, why would they want to? No one likes wars.

[Llyssa]

Yes.

 

 

 

There's no proof of that. The whole balance thing wasn't introduced until the Gradivarius Dilemma as a poor excuse to try and make sense of people aiding the Corpus. I doubt it has any bearing on the Orokin story arc whatsoever.

 

 

 

 

Again, no. If you actually read the Stalker's Codex entry it makes it clear that the Tenno only killed the Orokin Emperors and their blood metaphorically flowed out on the crowd that had gathered there. There is zero evidence to support the theory that the Tenno then went on a giant genocide spree. Zero.

 

Also, there is just one stadium involved. One.

 

 

 

That's because the Orokin Empire crumbled and the survivors most likely devolved into various different factions as a result, with the Grineer and Corpus eventually coming out as top dogs.

 

Lets make it clear - the lore only states that the Orokin Empire fell. It does not state that the Orokin were made extinct.

Where do you get this? The exact quote is:

"When the ninth beat rang a torrent of blood filled the stadium, loosed by Tenno blades. The drums, the Empire, fell silent forever."

 

It doesn't say "We stabbed one dude". It doesn't say "We started a revolution"

 

It says:

"a torrent of blood filled the stadium, loosed by Tenno blades". We killed them ALL.

 

Also, if you're STILL in denial of the fact we killed them ALL, I give you this:

"I watched from a distance, with the rest of the low Guardians. With each beat terror began to crush my throat. The Tenno were not stoic and silent. They were waiting."

 

Nobody freaks out about "gosh, the president might get assassinated here!"

 

An entire SPECIES doesn't go down in history as "the betrayers" for killing a king.

 

We killed them ALL.

 

The stalker isn't some orokin fanboi who's angry we took out his favorite ruler.

 

He's a demented soul trapped in a universe where we hunted everyone he ever knew to extinction, and he had no choice to hide until we went to sleep, and he's been plotting the revenge of the species we wiped out.

 

He's not mad at us for killing a political leader.

 

If you're basing it on the phrase, "Our cold and gold Emperors", the way things are explained variously depict it rather clearly that we were a subjugated species. Slaves. Like spartan helots or blacks of the southern us. We killed "our emperors", ie. the ruling class. Slavery has historically *always* stressed that a slave was subject to the whims and commands of all non-slaves. The non-slaves are the emperors in the eyes of the slaves, no matter what rank they hold in the ruling society.

 

We didn't leave "war torn" or "collapsing" worlds behind.

 

We left "desolate worlds". We killed them ALL.

 

There's NO talk about fleeing or infighting or social decay. Just out-and-out murder, that produced "a torrent of blood" that "filled the stadium", specifically, "Across all our worlds, all at once".

 

If you REALLY want to believe he's being metaphorical here: why even suppose we killed anyone at all? Maybe we just snubbed them, made them feel bad inside. I mean, that's a totally valid interpretation of "the Empire, fell silent forever" as a metaphor.

 

Also, "the Empire, fell silent forever." does not describe them collapsing or falling apart. It describes them BEING DEAD.

 

We killed them ALL.

Edited March 21, 2014 by Llyssa

[Otaiken]

Weren't Orokin essentially humans? Orokin is the name of the empire, not the species. But Grineer and Corpus are humans, so if we did kill all humans.. where would they come from? There's no other intelligent species in the solar system.. well, unless you count Infested. Though I consider them more of a disease, they mostly come from humans anyway.

Either way Tenno didn't kill all humans.

Edited March 21, 2014 by LocoWithGun

[Etsoree]

....assuming the Primes are supposed to be how the Tenno looked during the Orokin Era?

 

Considering we do not know what a Tenno looks like, I would like to know where you are getting your information.

[Brimir]

Llyssa -  a the most I'll grant you that they killed everyone present at the ceremony; though I still don't think they did. They killed off the Emperors and possibly their bodyguards (which I believe were the Guardians that the Stalker belonged to; that is why he felt the need to avenge them Emperors - because he failed to protect them).

 

There's still no evidence that they killed all the Orokin other than your assumptions. It only states that the Empire "fell" or "collapsed".

 

 

 

Weren't Orokin essentially humans? Orokin is the name of the empire, not the species. But Grineer and Corpus are humans, so if we did kill all humans.. where would they come from? There's no other species in the solar system.. well, unless you count Infested. Though I consider them more of a disease, they mostly come from humans anyway.

Either way Tenno didn't kill all humans.

 

Most likely the Orokin era were the height of human civilization as we know it, yeah. Everything from the design of their weaponry (the Prime weapons) to their architecture in the Void points towards them being humans. It would also make the most sense for the Corpus to be mad at the Tenno if the Orokin were their distant ancestors, too.

 

Plus. as you mentioned, there is literally no signs of alien presence anywhere within the game right now.

Edited March 21, 2014 by Brimir

[NightmareT12]

I believe a few things are getting mixed here. Prime items are the original Orokin designed tech, including the Warframe exosuits, that Tenno wear. As the war advanced, most likely the Tenno had to salvage and try to replicate that tech, making the normal Warframe/Weapons models we use today (otherwise how do you explain the Tenno in cryosleep having a normal Excalibur? :P).

[SilentMobius]

Llyssa -  a the most I'll grant you that they killed everyone present at the ceremony; though I still don't think they did. They killed off the Emperors and possibly their bodyguards (which I believe were the Guardians that the Stalker belonged to; that is why he felt the need to avenge them Emperors - because he failed to protect them).

 

There's still no evidence that they killed all the Orokin other than your assumptions. It only states that the Empire "fell" or "collapsed".

 

 

 

 

Most likely the Orokin era were the height of human civilization as we know it, yeah. Everything from the design of their weaponry (the Prime weapons) to their architecture in the Void points towards them being humans. It would also make the most sense for the Corpus to be mad at the Tenno if the Orokin were their distant ancestors, too.

 

Plus. as you mentioned, there is literally no signs of alien presence anywhere within the game right now.

 

There's no evidence that they _didn't_ either

 

All we know is that:

1. The Stalker survived

2. Other than the Tenno, we know of no one else that survived

3. We have not seen a single Orokin since that event.

 

I'd say there is no robust information that tells us how the Orokin-no-at-the-arena died/dissipated.

We certainly can say whether the Tenno did-or-did-not kill all the Orokin. So it's bets to assume either is possible. and make sure any assumptions we have fit both senarios.

[Brimir]

I believe a few things are getting mixed here. Prime items are the original Orokin designed tech, including the Warframe exosuits, that Tenno wear. As the war advanced, most likely the Tenno had to salvage and try to replicate that tech, making the normal Warframe/Weapons models we use today (otherwise how do you explain the Tenno in cryosleep having a normal Excalibur? :P).

 

Well, personally I think that the Tenno didn't freeze themselves right away after the fall of the Orokin Empire. Perhaps they were around for a bit and their once-glorious Prime Warframes got busted up so they had to try and patch them up; eventually having replaced the entire thing with their shoddy repairs. Or perhaps the entire Prime Warframe broke down and they had to build new ones the best they could. I've no doubt that the Tenno didn't maintain or build their own Warframes so naturally their versions would be inferior to the Prime ones that were built and maintained by the Orokin engineers.

 

It could also be that they willingly discarded their Prime Warframes due to their connection with the Orokin - they didn't want to wear their "symbol" anymore. The Tenno and the Orokin didn't end on the best of terms after all.

 

 

 

There's no evidence that they _didn't_ either

 

Russell's Teapot fallacy.

 

That is all.

Edited March 21, 2014 by Brimir

[Otaiken]

The way I see it Tenno destroyed Orokin empire that day. That means both goverment and infrastructure as well as military forces across the whole solar system. Which cut many distant colonies off as they now had to fend for themselves with the Orokin empire gone. You don't have to kill the entire civilian population off to destroy an empire, though there may have been civilian casualties.

 

Also, Corpus are descendants of those civilians that survived after the crumble of the Orokin empire. That's why they hate us and call us betrayers.. they thrived under the Orokin until we destroyed them, making them have to fend for themselves. They also had to rebuild some of the infrastructure (Corpus are still working on rebuilding solar rails). Not sure where Grineer came from though.

 

Though I have the feeling that Grineer came from the part of humanity that was opposed to the Orokin rule. I think I read somewhere that Grineer benefited greatly from the ruin of the empire. Though I can't for the life of me remember where.

 

Still.. Tenno destroyed the empire, but they didn't kill all humans.. since humans do not equal Orokin. You don't have to kill all Romans to destroy a Roman empire.

Edited March 21, 2014 by LocoWithGun

[Lakais]

To be honest, in my opinion the prime versions of frames and weapons are not just "first". I mean how many "first" frosts can there be? So I think Prime versions are, in a way, ceremonial. Like a gold plated assault rifle. It's shiny and pretty! But it's still an assault rifle. So prime frames are ceremonial or given to those Tenno (before the fall) who showed themselves very capable in combat. A status symbol. 

 

What I believe some people keep missing is that the Orokin MADE the Tenno and the Warframes. But the Tenno didn't win the Sentient war overnight. It took years, maybe even centuries for them to save the Orokin hide. In that time, the Tenno developed their culture and weaponry. I mean Fang Prime is mentioned as a "ceremonial" weapon. It's a weapon, but it's shinier. 

 

So Prime frames and weapons are just higher grade versions of existing models. Better materials used have caused these versions to be in some way better then the original. 

True, some weapons, like the Burstron Prime mention that the Corpus attempts to remake this weapon hasn't exactly panned out perfectly. But can anyone argue that the burstron is a nonfunctional piece of poo? It still kills people.