Underclocking Warframe Abilities - Do Players Really Care Enough To Justify Leaving Powers In The Drop Tables?

[Agent_of_Change]

It's been a point of discussion recently, enough so that it showed up in the live stream, The warframe power mods should be removed from the drop tables.

 

As they are mods that every player gets a full set of one frame at a time it begs the question why bother even needing them to drop.  Keep in mind that is 4 mods per current warframe and 4 for every new frame that will further dilute the chances of getting mods that you DON'T already have.

 

Cores are prevalent enough at this point that leveling them isn't any kind of issue. Getting powers for frames you already have maxed doesn't really help you at all.  So currently the only argument to really keep them around is for "underclocking" the powers, to mount non maxed powers for some reason.

 

Following the live stream the devs are on the fence about removing them and this is a good opportunity to get them removed and generally reduce drop dilution so it seems a good time to ask this question:

 

Do enough people really care enough about this to justify the general impact it has for all players in regards to mod drops?

 

Edit: added question for those that do use 'underclocking'.

 

Is it worth leaving the Ability mods in the pool UNTIL a solution for 'underclocking' is in place (maybe never) at the expense of pool dilution or can they be removed NOW and at some point in the future a solution to allow 'underclocking' to happen may be put in place for the sake of reducing the pool dilution?

 

The more responses we get the more visibility this has especially with DE on the fence about it.

Edited March 22, 2014 by Agent_of_Change

[Hiraldo]

Honestly, this problem could be easily solved by removing the credit cost of transmutaton. It's way too much right now, considering void runs no longer throw credits at you.

[LukeAura]

There are maybe just a few abilities that can have use at higher levels, Renewal is the only one that really comes to mind because you can have a longer lasting heal that way. 

But no, 4 something out of 80+ isn't worth keeping them in the pool.

[S.Fayden]

Not really, no one I've ever encountered ever throws nonmaxed powers on a frame (especially if the frame is at 30). If they're really concerned about this, they could just throw the ability mods in the market for a few thousand credits each; the fact that they're still in the drop tables over such a minor concern is kind of absurd though.

 

Alternatively, they could allow us to manually set what level we are using a mod at. So if we've got a maxed out mod we can set it to use a lower fusion level for a specific loadout. Thus the need for acquiring multiple of the same mod is eliminated and the power mods can be removed from the droptable with zero consequence.

[Haldos]

I usually have a need for slightly leveled ability mods when I have a few extra points to spare or when I need an extra point to go into another mod.

I'd say the ability to adjust mod cost up and down in the UI would be a way to give that level of adjustment for builds, while also allowing ability mods to be removed for the sake of dilution. The main idea being that you can only adjust up to a level you have fused to, so if you have only leveled a mod half way, you will only be able to adjust it that far or lower. This could be used for all mods, or just abilities, but I think it could work.

Edited March 21, 2014 by Haldos

[Lord.Finster]

I can't imagine someone using underclocked ability mods. If an ability is worth using, it is worth maxing it out as well.

Abilities don't deserve to be mod cards in the first place. They really should be inbuilt into the frame itself.

[Egg_Chen]

Ditch them from the drop pools.

 

You can't sell your last version of a power mod..

I honestly cannot think of a power I would ever want less of.

The mod pool is only getting bigger, slim it down now.

[Agent_of_Change]

I usually have a need slightly leveled ability mods when I have a few extra points to spare or when I need an extra point to go into another mod.

I'd say the ability to adjust mod cost up and down in the UI would be a way to give that level of adjustment for builds, while also allowing ability mods to be removed for the sake of dilution. The main idea being that you can only adjust up to a level you have fused to, so if you have only leveled a mod half way, you will only be able to adjust it that far or lower. This could be used for all mods, or just abilities, but I think it could work.

 

Well the next question for you then is:

 

Is it worth leaving the Ability mods in the pool UNTIL a solution for underclocking is in place (maybe never) at the expense of pool dilution or can they be removed NOW and at some point in the future a solution to allow underclocking to happen may be put in place for the sake of reducing the pool dilution?

 

Does the benefit of keeping them in just in case out weigh the negative of the current dilution?

Edited March 21, 2014 by Agent_of_Change

[DocHolliday13]

Take them out. Sell them on market for 1K cred as suggested. Done. 

[CDelacroix]

They work well for ranking mods that you wouldn't want to waste cores on (e.g. skill mods on a new frame.) Nothing beats using ~45 Pulls to cap something out when you have other things to level that are significantly more difficult.

 

 

I think they're fine.

Edited March 21, 2014 by CDelacroix

[MeduSalem]

That's why they should have implemented a feature to underclock a mod back in the past...

 

DE should get rid of those damn Warframe Powers in the drop tables and we are fine... and while we are at it, get rid of useless underclocked duplicate mods as well and implement an underclocking feature for those who need it.

[(PSN)octus]

I can't imagine someone using underclocked ability mods. If an ability is worth using, it is worth maxing it out as well.

Abilities don't deserve to be mod cards in the first place. They really should be inbuilt into the frame itself.

thats the best idea

[Agent_of_Change]

Take them out. Sell them on market for 1K cred as suggested. Done. 

 

I like this idea, only for ease of use I would say bundle them together and sell each warframes' powers as a set.  there really is no reason for any powers to be "uncommon" or "rare" as everyone gets a copy anyway.

[RoboDoge]

Lately, all rares that i got were frame power mods.


WTS Switch Teleport, Chaos, Teleport, Roar etc 1 000 000.11 per mod.

[Agent_of_Change]

Lately, all rares that i got were frame power mods.

WTS Switch Teleport, Chaos, Teleport, Roar etc 1 000 000.11 per mod.

 

That's kinda the point really, why is that even happening?  We should not be getting 'rare' drops for mods that are really rare to begin with.

[LukeAura]

Is it worth leaving the Ability mods in the pool UNTIL a solution for underclocking is in place (maybe never) at the expense of pool dilution or can they be removed NOW and at some point in the future a solution to allow underclocking to happen may be put in place for the sake of reducing the pool dilution?

Mod Dilution currently has no solution.

Underclocking can be solved through forma.

The number of underclockable mods that can't be solved through forma hasn't reached beyond 5 in nearly 20 frames.

Dilution's predicament >>> Underclocking

[RoboDoge]

That's kinda the point really, why is that even happening?  We should not be getting 'rare' drops for mods that are really rare to begin with.

I think it has something with GRIND! That horrible word is everywhere.

 

 

I miss old days when rare mods dropped normally form random mobs.

Edited March 22, 2014 by RoboDoge

[stratmania]

+1 

Till now, I have never heard of players underclocking the abilities of a warframe unless they need the mod slot. I would rather see them removed entirely from drop tables so that whatever mod they were supposed to be dropping drops instead. It is sad to see a rare ability drop from an enemy when it could have been a fusion core or another non-ability rare mod.

[Nickeltoe]

Warframe abilities should not even be mods.  They should be what you get by playing the warframe.  We already have too many core functions as mods.  Drop the warframe ability mod entirely by making them part of the actual frame.  That would give most of us 2 slots back or 4 if you use all the powers on a frame.

 

In one of the devstreams Steve said something like, "they want it to be agonizing or serious decision on what to load," but it frankly is not.  There are only a few useful mod setups.  Allowing more slots on frams than we have now will allow for more builds and more decisions on what to take or not.  Now it is basically, will you load the warframe power mods to max out and make your powers super deadly/useful or utilize one ability as your spam button?  or will you not take them all and do a stamina/speed loadout?  or a specific niche loadout that mods specifically match but those mods are not useful elsewhere?

 

A few mods aside it is power or speed, some folks can argue for no knockdown build, but if you want no knockdown on any frame but rhino you have to waste 2 or 3 mod slots on minimal knockdown so in the end it feels like just play rhino if you want no knockdown and use iron skin.  More slots equal more opportunities to customize.  Warframe abilities waste 1 to 3 mods slots and make the drop table even worse.  On top of that the dev reasoning to keep them in makes them even worse.  Lets just have those granted by owning the warframe, remove them from mods please.

Edited March 22, 2014 by Nickeltoe

[2ply]

Please consider these solutions.

 

Or add more! 

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/197801-introducing-mod-consolidator-a-dojo-tech-solution-to-consolidate-mod-level-sets/?p=2298573

[Teljaxx]

It is incredibly annoying when I go through a void mission looking for some of the rare mods that only drop there, only to come away with yet another set of Nekros' powers...

 

I like putting powers on the market for credits for those that want lower leveled versions of them. Either ~1,000 for each power, or ~5,000 for a full Warframe set would probably work.

 

Either that, or make powers separate from the mod system.

[achromos]

I can't imagine someone using underclocked ability mods. If an ability is worth using, it is worth maxing it out as well.

Abilities don't deserve to be mod cards in the first place. They really should be inbuilt into the frame itself.

 

On my loki I actually use a 2/3 Switch teleport as I don't need it anyway because I am using the Swindle helm + A maxed overextend AND I am left with 0 points and [Geeze I've been saying and alot] I can already switch teleport cross the room if i need to.

 

Some skills don't 'need' to be maxed out and I'd rather them keep these things in rotation because it lets people play around with their mods like I did with my loki.  I do admit there are some mods that most people would agree that NEED to be fully charged, however sometimes going down one or two rungs will suit a build just fine [like in the case of mine]

 

However ability's should stick to lower level drop tables where people just starting out can see and get it.  NOTHING sucks worse than having a high level area drop SLASH DASH again for the 1000000th time :/

Edited March 22, 2014 by Sibarian

[ZephyrPhantom]

The only time I've ever used an underleveled power mod was for A) leveling a frame or B) a frame with no potato or forma yet. That being said, leveling a frame can happen quite a bit when you've got enough forma.

 

In regards to the "abilities should never have been mods" PoV : While suggesting we remove ability mods completely seems like a good idea at face value, it also conflicts with something DE has planned later on, which is "generic" abilities that can be used on any frame. The mod system would be much more flexible in terms of allowing frames to mix and match abilities, and we could even see alternate abilities to specific frames appear, which overall would create much more variety as opposed to a fixed 4-ability set.

 

I think the best solution at the moment is to remove ability mods from the droptables, and make them buyable with credits in the shop - the frame mods aren't of any real value apart from build tinkering/frame leveling and it would be much convenient for players messing with builds to be able to just quickly grab a spare copy of World on Fire/Radial Blind/etc... instead of just having to wait until their frame levels enough to use the skill again.

 

However, in the long term, I wouldn't mind seeing enemies drop a "generic" ability for all Warframes every now and then once generic abilities are put in, especially the ability is designed in a useful enough way to be considered an 'uncommon'/'rare' ability mod.

Edited March 22, 2014 by ZephyrPhantom

[AhziDahaka]

I like the solution people have come up with of just having the power mods in the Marketplace.  You could even just bundle'em together by warframe and sell them for 10k credits per pack.

 

ZephyrPhantom kinda has it on the money that generic abilities should probably still be dropped by enemies though, or at least not be purchaseable.  Maybe they'd be decent prizes for Interception runs or something.

Edited March 22, 2014 by AhziDahaka

[Volume]

Trick question. Powers shouldn't even be cards in the first place.

 

I personally never want to see one drop again, but consider the impact on new players before clamoring for a total removal.