Remove Shotgun Fall-Off.

[Edgedemon]

neglected?  not viable? my modded boar prime can convert a hyena into tomato juice in under 5 secs without need reload. you need to revisit your shotty.

[gnat6]

neglected?  not viable? my modded boar prime can convert a hyena into tomato juice in under 5 secs without need reload. you need to revisit your shotty.

My soma can kill them in 3 seconds and is a amazing sniper.

[Boondorl]

neglected?  not viable? my modded boar prime can convert a hyena into tomato juice in under 5 secs without need reload. you need to revisit your shotty.

 

Uh, pretty much any gun can do that at this point. Hyena isn't exactly a bunch mark for gear. Even in the old U8 days the original Boar could kill Hyena in 3 seconds flat when soloing.

 

Even then, Boar Prime has a default DPS of over 400, over 2x as much as the other shotguns. It's not surprising that a fully automatic shotgun with decent damage and a large magazine can destroy anything in mere seconds. That doesn't mean the other shotguns are doing well, however.

[shut]

+1.

 

From a realism standpoint, a shotgun pellet is still going to hurt like crazy if it hits you from a mile away. The main reason for you receiving less damage is spread, not air resistance.

 

From a gameplay standpoint, shotgun range cutoff adds nothing to the game except to discourage players from building their weapons for unique niches to their personal tastes. Want to extend your shotgun's range with a spead-reducing mod? Well, tough taters, it's still doing 3 damage past 20 meters anyways.

Edited March 26, 2014 by SortaRandom

[Arunafeltz]

neglected?  not viable? my modded boar prime can convert a hyena into tomato juice in under 5 secs without need reload. you need to revisit your shotty.

So can plenty of other guns actually. 

[Akrocius]

From a gameplay standpoint, shotgun range cutoff adds nothing to the game except to discourage players from building their weapons for unique niches to their personal tastes. Want to extend your shotgun's range with a spead-reducing mod? Well, tough taters, it's still doing 3 damage past 20 meters anyways.

 

Exactly this. Damage falloff for shotguns should be determined by spread instead of distance since it will allow more personal customization, especially when using corrupted mods. If you use Tainted Shell, you are trading fire rate for a longer effective range against single targets. If you use Vicious Spread, you are trading better accuracy for more damage on crowds.

 

These are the kinds of interesting choices that I would like to see presented to players when modding weapons.

[xkillo32]

if they remove damage fall off then brakk would be even more OP

[SquirmyBurrito]

if they remove damage fall off then brakk would be even more OP

 

The Brakk isn't a shotgun.

[Akrocius]

The Brakk isn't a shotgun.

 

It also has a pretty large spread with no mods to reduce it. I find that to be the issue more often than the damage falloff.

Edited March 26, 2014 by Akrocius

[Arunafeltz]

if they remove damage fall off then brakk would be even more OP

imo the spread increase was a good enough nerf for the Brakk

[taiiat]

imo the spread increase was a good enough nerf for the Brakk

possibly. though honestly i think Brakk would support parallel playstyles better if it did a bit less Damage than Bronco Prime, but making up for that in considerably better accuracy, Magazine Size, etc.

BroncoP is 139 Damage atm, and Brakk is 149.

with the same spread it has now, no falloff, and 129 Damage, it would still be a general upgrade, but atleast help support alterior playstyles. 

 

just as Detron should really be a charge Weapon, quick shots like it's current state, but also Charged ones(probably reaching 120Dmg instead of the 105 - quick charge time, 0.5sec tops due to not a big Damage increase) that increase the Damage and make it more Accurate. that way all of these Shotgun Pistols would have a reason to exist aside each other. 

[nekrojiji]

i dont think they are trying to making sniper shotguns which sounds like what you talkeing about thats why hek has dmg fall off if it didnt it might out class snipers entirely 

Can't they just buff the snippers!? 

 

I didn't know what was happening when I saw that they added another falloff mechanic on a class of weapons that allready had a falloff mechanic.

[VScipii26]

The Hek used to be a sniper rifle. I think many people forget that. Not in the literal sense, but in the sense that it could kill mid level enemies from across that one giant outdoors Corpus map.

The same goes for the Brakk. Before it got fall off, it's the undisputed king of secondaries.

 

I agree that it could use some tweaking, but straight up removing it is not a good idea.

[Brimir]

The Hek used to be a sniper rifle. I think many people forget that. Not in the literal sense, but in the sense that it could kill mid level enemies from across that one giant outdoors Corpus map.

The same goes for the Brakk. Before it got fall off, it's the undisputed king of secondaries.

 

I agree that it could use some tweaking, but straight up removing it is not a good idea.

 

Let me ask you this:

 

Was the Hek more powerful back then than the Soma is now?

 

If the answer is no, then that's not a very solid argument.

[Rafarix]

I agree with Brimir, but now compare it to sniper weapons like Vectis and pretty much all Bows. Per-shot (charged shot for bows) are far more stronger then the Hek now.

 

The fall off was appropriate (only for the Hek) back then because Snipers and Bows were pretty much rubbish back then. Now they are leagues better so the fall off is no longer needed. 

Edited March 26, 2014 by Rafarix

[taiiat]

The Hek used to be a sniper rifle. I think many people forget that. Not in the literal sense, but in the sense that it could kill mid level enemies from across that one giant outdoors Corpus map.

The same goes for the Brakk. Before it got fall off, it's the undisputed king of secondaries.

 

I agree that it could use some tweaking, but straight up removing it is not a good idea.

 

the only reason Hek was so damn good was because of Additive Mods, making for the capability to have like 7m Piercing and 700% Multishot. that concatenated with high Damage per shot (for Equipment of the time, it was a flavor of the month Weapon then), made for a bad mixture.

 

it was the Mods that was the majority of the reason, not the style of Weapon.

people, please learn to read. this thread has answered that concern like 8 times already.

[DalaiLlama]

Logic warrants that bullets don't grow significantly weaker beyond a fixed range.  Unless we're shooting cubes, assuming factors like air resistance are reasons enough for this is pitiably laughable.

[xkillo32]

The Brakk isn't a shotgun.

ok fine

shotgun-pistol

[Rafarix]

After re-reading these post including mine; most of the posts have been revolving around the Hek. Let's not forget that the Hek is not the only shotgun in the game.

 

This isn't a nerf/un-nerf hek thread it's about shotguns in general. Not all shotguns can be used to snipe enemies across the room. Other shotguns already lost most their damage because of the spread which makes it no need for the damage fall off. So don't judge an entire weapon category based on a single weapon.

[DeadlyNerd]

Giving a +1 here because it IS a tad ridiculous that, if it actually hits anything with those 4 pellets, the bronco's gonna do squat damage after 5m.

[Boondorl]

Let's not also forget a huge reason the Hek was so good: Flechette.

 

It's obvious that shotguns have by far the best elemental damage mods. Well, they did at the time. I remember taking my Hek to Mercury pre-Damage 2.0 (and before the enemy scaling changed), and it did a whopping 3 damage per pellet to the Grineer. Everything had armor back then as well, so it also suffered this damage reduction against every faction. The Hek only truly shined once you put Flechette on it. Before that, you'd wonder how the gun was worthy of MR4. I even remember people saying it was trash after the fall-off nerf, even when in range (seriously, there'd be zero difference between new and old Hek in its effective range).

 

But, like others have said, this isn't about Hek. We know it left a nasty scar, but so did the Despair. That's no reason to claim it still needs to be nerfed into the ground. Other shotguns exist, and they desperately need the buff.

[Naftal]

I approve of this.

 

It would also make Vicious Spread have an actual downside.

[Rafarix]

The biggest controversy when damage fall off was implemented was it was all because of the Hek. back then the only shotguns were the Strun, Boar, and Hek.

 

The Hek was top tier and function very well in long ranges. The Strun, and Boar however  did not; especially the boar. I don't think that damage fall-off for all shotguns was a good way to go back then, and now damage fall-off itself is now obsolete to have.

Edited March 28, 2014 by Rafarix

[SableSonata]

Yes, please. Damage fall-off for only one class of weapon is lazy balancing, and it makes that class less fun to use.

 

I love using shotguns in shooters, but almost every shooter I play has the same mechanics for the shotguns: insanely high (or just regular high) damage at ridiculously short range, which quickly drops off to nothing at short-medium range.

 

Mass Effect 3 did a really good job with the shotguns, with the damage at range constrained by the spread, rather than arbitrary drop-off. 

[taiiat]

Mass Effect 3 did a really good job with the shotguns, with the damage at range constrained by the spread, rather than arbitrary drop-off. 

Graal Spike Thrower, best friend.