Remove Shotgun Fall-Off.

[Brimir]

There's no need for it. Shotguns are already punished at range by spread, which is just fine - it is what you'd expect for a Shotgun in a video game.

 

Spread and fall-off? That is just too much.

 

"But wait!", I hear you say, "Then you could just mod for -Spread and use your Shotgun at greater range!" Well. Yes? Modding is supposed to be beneficial! If you want to spend the mod capacity/slot for it, why shouldn't you be allowed to?

[Arunafeltz]

It's not like Hek invalidates the Latron Prime or something. +1

Edited March 24, 2014 by Arunafeltz

[RustyNaps]

There's no need for it. Shotguns are already punished at range by spread, which is just fine - it is what you'd expect for a Shotgun in a video game.

 

Spread and fall-off? That is just too much.

 

"But wait!", I hear you say, "Then you could just mod for -Spread and use your Shotgun at greater range!" Well. Yes? Modding is supposed to be beneficial! If you want to spend the mod capacity/slot for it, why shouldn't you be allowed to?

If you suggest this then I'll suggest they need even more pellets and larger spread to balance out it's damage at ranges.

 

Right now DE nerfed the pellet count which essentially buffs the damage per pellet being less of them.

 

I would like to see no fall off but if that happens I want 2x more spread and 2x more pellets to limit the effectiveness at long range but still doing any pellets that land damage values.

Edited March 24, 2014 by RustyNaps

[shadowman1623]

i dont think they are trying to making sniper shotguns which sounds like what you talkeing about thats why hek has dmg fall off if it didnt it might out class snipers entirely 

[ObviousLee]

finally, something Brimir and i actually agree on

[ChaoticVice777]

Too used to the concept that shotguns have damage fall-off and spread though....

 

Also, how does spread necessarily balance out the damage dropoff?

[kaboomonme]

We're talking about SHOTGUNS here right? Not snipeguns? I don't see the issue.

Edited March 24, 2014 by kaboomonme

[Brimir]

i dont think they are trying to making sniper shotguns which sounds like what you talkeing about thats why hek has dmg fall off if it didnt it might out class snipers entirely 

 

I very much doubt any Shotgun could "out-snipe" any of the Bows or Snipers if you remove Fall-Off. Good luck getting those big headshot numbers when your pellets are all over the place; better aim center mass than going for the head.

 

Well... maybe the Drakgoon. Fully charged that thing is fairly accurate, but then again it (like the Phage) isn't really a Shotgun but merely uses Shotgun mods.

[gnat6]

There's no need for it. Shotguns are already punished at range by spread, which is just fine - it is what you'd expect for a Shotgun in a video game.

 

Spread and fall-off? That is just too much.

 

"But wait!", I hear you say, "Then you could just mod for -Spread and use your Shotgun at greater range!" Well. Yes? Modding is supposed to be beneficial! If you want to spend the mod capacity/slot for it, why shouldn't you be allowed to?

Agreed if I want to find and rank up a rare 10 corrupted mod and lose a slot to make my shotgun a sniper I should have that choice.

[Calsius]

I really hate to mention the elephant in the room here, but that reminds me. The Detron still doesn't have Damage falloff. Admittedly, I can kill enemies more efficiently at mid to long range easier with my rifle.

[RustyNaps]

Too used to the concept that shotguns have damage fall-off and spread though....

 

Also, how does spread necessarily balance out the damage dropoff?

Well the farther you are from the target the more pellets from your shotgun that will miss effectively nerfing the actual damage of the shotgun because a pellet or two missed.

[CY13ERPUNK]

It's not like Hek invalidates the Latron Prime or something.

if that was supposed to be sarcasm, u failed hard

[Brimir]

Well the farther you are from the target the more pellets from your shotgun that will miss effectively nerfing the actual damage of the shotgun because a pellet or two missed.

 

Exactly. There is no need for Fall-off...

 

 

I really hate to mention the elephant in the room here, but that reminds me. The Detron still doesn't have Damage falloff. Admittedly, I can kill enemies more efficiently at mid to long range easier with my rifle.

 

I don't think that within the "in-game logic" it would make much sense to have Fall-off on bolts of freakin' plasma. I mean, it doesn't make much sense for there to be Fall-off on Shotgun pellets either, but I can kinda see how that makes more sense albeit it adds up to very little sense in total...

 

Uhm..

 

If that makes any sense.

 

lol

Edited March 24, 2014 by Brimir

[LazyKnight]

I very much doubt any Shotgun could "out-snipe" any of the Bows or Snipers if you remove Fall-Off. Good luck getting those big headshot numbers when your pellets are all over the place; better aim center mass than going for the head.

Boar Prime and Strun Wraith have too much spread to snipe (they would lose to Latron prime and the bows easily). None of the shotguns have a critical heavy build that is also accurate, so they would be denied the massive headshot damage bows get.

 

 

I really hate to mention the elephant in the room here, but that reminds me. The Detron still doesn't have Damage falloff. Admittedly, I can kill enemies more efficiently at mid to long range easier with my rifle.

Yeah, Detron selling point is still less effective than using a rifle. 

[Calsius]

Exactly. There is no need for Fall-off...

 

 

 

I don't think that within the "in-game logic" it would make much sense to have Fall-off on bolts of freakin' plasma. I mean, it doesn't make much sense for there to be Fall-off on Shotgun pellets either, but I can kinda see how that makes more sense albeit it adds up to very little sense...

 

Uhm..

 

If that makes any sense.

 

lol

I always forget to factor that in with Corpus weaponry. You're right of course, my point is actually moot.

[VKhaun]

There's no need for it. Shotguns are already punished at range by spread, which is just fine - it is what you'd expect for a Shotgun in a video game.

 

I disagree. Spread is just another word for accuracy-per-pellet, and rifles already have accuracy variance. There's not much difference between a rifle with a high RoF and poor accuracy, and a shotgun with equivalent spread. 

 

The need for fall-off is to differentiate the two categories of weapons. Some shotguns (Like Tigris/Hek) might go farther that others and have better falloff numbers, but overall shotguns are supposed to be OP up close, somewhere in the middle in mid to short ranges, and struggling at longer ranges. That's what changes how people use

 

The problem, as I see it, is that DE has painted themselves into a corner with Heavy Caliber. By trading rifle accuracy for rifle damage you're bringing the incentives of the best DPS rifles down to shotgun territory, and it disproportionately affects rifles depending on their starting accuracy.

 

 

 

Have HC increase recoil and reduce firing rate, but not affect accuracy itself.

 

Buff Viscious Spread's damage mod%.

 

Buff Point blank's damage mod%.

(A really smart person suggested maybe stealing Blaze's damage buff and instead making Blaze into Fire Damage + Something else, like reload speed)

 

If DE intends some rifles compete with shotguns, add them to a new class of weapons; SMG's. SMG's use pistol mods. More reload speed, more fire rate, more multishot, and accuracy reduction on the corrupted mod. Obviously some say pistol mods are kind of OP, but that's a separate issue that I can't sort out in one quick post. :P

Edited March 24, 2014 by VKhaun

[JimJam_]

Shotguns are to be shotguns, used at short range. Perhaps a default range where there is no fall-off, and a mod that could increase that, but for now I think shotguns are fine and do their job. You wouldn't see a Banshee with a shotgun, but an Ash makes more sense.

[Rakosta_Kai]

I feel your pain on this one...

Sadly any trade-off to warrant the removal of fall-off  would be a bad one to me at this point.

Pellets per round, proc per pellet have both seen tweaks in recent.

If they keep tweaking, you may well get your wish. I just wonder if it will still be a shotgun at that point or if it will act like a rifle but be shaped like a shotgun instead.

For my part, they can leave us with the fall-off so long as they don't look for any other ways to nerf shotguns in general.

[Brimir]

I never understood video game shotguns, to be honest.

 

I've hunted plenty of quail and other fowl with mine, and it is not like the pellets become harmless after a few meters.

[SquirmyBurrito]

We're talking about SHOTGUNS here right? Not snipeguns? I don't see the issue.

 

Taking the fall-off off a shotguns isn't going to grant them high accuracy at long-range.

 

To those saying shotguns are supposed to struggle at long-range, without fall-off (and with a buff to their spread I guess) players would be struggling to get very many of their pellets to land on target at long-range. So they would still struggle. I don't even think the spread buff/nerf (not sure which word to use in this situation) would be necessary.

To the person who asked for a pellet count buff: Are you aware that this could positively affect the shotguns via granting them even more chances at proc'ing and/or crit'ing per shot?

[Racercowboy]

If I recall correctly, shotguns were given damage drop-off at a time where they out sniped rifles and bows. Since then, many of said rifles have been buffed to the point where even if shotguns did not have damage drop-off they would still win at longer ranges.

 

I know there is the concern of tainted shell, but it has a trade off of lowering fire rate and having a high cost. The shotgun may become super precise, but you sacrifice DPS to make the shotgun better at longer ranges. Also don't forget that vicious spread increases spread making it less effective at longer ranges.

[kaboomonme]

Taking the fall-off off a shotguns isn't going to grant them high accuracy at long-range.

 

To those saying shotguns are supposed to struggle at long-range, without fall-off (and with a buff to their spread I guess) players would be struggling to get very many of their pellets to land on target at long-range. So they would still struggle. I don't even think the spread buff/nerf (not sure which word to use in this situation) would be necessary.

To the person who asked for a pellet count buff: Are you aware that this could positively affect the shotguns via granting them even more chances at proc'ing and/or crit'ing per shot?

I'm not sure which shotguns are going to suffer from this though. By far, people using shotguns the way they are supposed to won't be having much of a problem, no?

Maybe if y'all feel that some of the shotguns don't do well, and that the damage falloff should be tweaked? Sure!

But I'm all against removing fallof entirely. Shotguns are a no-brainer weapon to begin with, only requirement to use them effectively is to be at close range, which also benefits the spread. I understand the explanation provided by most posters here, but unless you would like the see an overall base-damage nerf to shotguns, I don't see this happening without breaking balance.

High-damage, nice spread and little to no falloff. A certain turd-gun used to be extremely overused due to this reason. After the nerf, it's still a really reliable and strong weapon.

It's fine to disagree with me though, this is just my opinion on how I like shotguns in videogames.

[Arunafeltz]

if that was supposed to be sarcasm, u failed hard

It's not. Wasn't Hek given falloff and Gorgon given accuracy nerf for first shot partly because people with Latrons felt sad?

 

 

I realized I forgot to give my upvote to the thread and came back to give my +1

Edited March 24, 2014 by Arunafeltz

[Shanicus]

Anyone remember the Brakk pre-nerf? Remember how it had literally zero weaknesses thanks to a lack of falloff? Would it really be a good idea to bring that back?

Also, the argument of adding spread just feels like... well, the Bronco already does that, and making EVERY shotgun the Bronco just seems really boring. That'd be like making all the Rifles act like the Braton Prime or something, which is just silly.

[SquirmyBurrito]

I'm not sure which shotguns are going to suffer from this though. By far, people using shotguns the way they are supposed to won't be having much of a problem, no?

Maybe if y'all feel that some of the shotguns don't do well, and that the damage falloff should be tweaked? Sure!

But I'm all against removing fallof entirely. Shotguns are a no-brainer weapon to begin with, only requirement to use them effectively is to be at close range, which also benefits the spread. I understand the explanation provided by most posters here, but unless you would like the see an overall base-damage nerf to shotguns, I don't see this happening without breaking balance.

High-damage, nice spread and little to no falloff. A certain turd-gun used to be extremely overused due to this reason. After the nerf, it's still a really reliable and strong weapon.

It's fine to disagree with me though, this is just my opinion on how I like shotguns in videogames.

 

What weapons take a whole lot of thought to use? Shotguns require you to get up close if you want to do full damage. Other weapons don't really do this. Getting rid of fall-off would actually open things up to more variety among the shotguns. Because as it stands spread doesn't really matter much given the fall-off range on most (if not all) shotguns.

 

Anyone remember the Brakk pre-nerf? Remember how it had literally zero weaknesses thanks to a lack of falloff? Would it really be a good idea to bring that back?

Also, the argument of adding spread just feels like... well, the Bronco already does that, and making EVERY shotgun the Bronco just seems really boring. That'd be like making all the Rifles act like the Braton Prime or something, which is just silly.

 

The Brakk was powerful for more reasons than just that. It fired a crap ton of pellets, had high damage, and had a fairly low spread. The lack of fall-off just added to that. 

 

Every shotgun could still be differiated via different spreads/pellet counts/damage/crit chance/fire rate/etc.