Tax Free Solar Rails & Why It's Bad

[ToeSama]

What's better, getting 100% of 100 or 70% of 200?

 

100% of 200.

 

It's not hard to get what you're hammering at, but it's also a pointless gesture. Even if the repair costs are outrageous, if folks don't support an existing node over a competitor, the rails are likely to just cycle. Market has the ruling hand on this, so keeping the mercenaries happy is going to be key to keeping a node.

 

It's not the common man's job to help keep the rails running. The provider knew the risks inherent with building a node, and know the risks inherent in not selling their node at a good price. If the good price ends up being 0% taxation, that's exactly what we can expect to see most folks do to keep the rail prestige train rolling, even if it undercuts them come crunch time.

 

To be perfectly fair, after seeing the drops in the Badlands,I don't mind a provider making very (VERY) minor taxation every so often to help with rail maintenance, but I will work for top dollar and only provide to those who provide to me first. If the best going rate is 0 tax during good seasons, my services will be to that 0 tax first and foremost, and someone else had best be putting up something REALLY good to make me break on that front.

 

More like a few bad apples add something new to the game rather than just more farming spots, something which a large group of the playbase, myself included, wouldn't mind seeing. Sorry if you disagree with our policies, but Commies have no place in space.

 

This is a loot based game. Getting loot and finding speedy, efficient loot farming zones will always be king for a large amount of people. Until they remove loot as a thing entirely, the bills will always demand lip service, and money will always talk.

 

Contest them if you want, but if you think folks will just help you take anything more than a 10% cut of their farming at all times, service provided or not, you'll be finding yourself overwhelmed by the next guy down the road that contests your rails and offering everyone 5% or lower rates plus the better battle pay.

 

Yes, the rails are a service. But they are not a service which provides any sort of mandatory aspect of life in the way a food vender or a gas station would. The market will ALWAYS determine the going rate for something like this, NOT the provider. The trick for the provider is to getting the market to go along with them instead of the guy two doors down with the same product at the same value for a lower price, and sometimes that means either cutting prices to meet the competition, offering better perks out of pocket, or closing shop.

 

Commies have no place in space, indeed...

[Gildarts_bb]

Note.

DE never said anything about other PvE factions not invading.

In fact the tweets seems to hint there will be.

 

So you could be 0% then suddenly Salad V and his cronies decide to set up shop, and offer 50k battle pay with unlimited coffers while your side struggles to cough up the 200m minimum to sustain a battle.

 

You chase them off, but they damage the rail and you have to fix it again.

Yeah i pretty much said that already bit not sure anyone bothered to read it lol

[Blatantfool]

 Already looks like a bunch of Free rail clans can't afford to keep their battle pay going.

 

  Number of people who should be surprised: 0.

[OniDax]

 Already looks like a bunch of Free rail clans can't afford to keep their battle pay going.

 

  Number of people who should be surprised: 0.

 

Yep. And it's a good thing, too. Now we need them to make the Spectres fewer in number, make them Primes (because, you know, it makes sense being in an Orokin tower and all), make them stronger and melee+weapons. Replacing these enemies with the current spectres (and replacing the spectres with stronger, leader Primes) would make more sense. I mean, it is supposed to be a Tenno tower, and when is the last time we saw Tenno using Corpus tech?

[Emeere]

So we can only play the actual Dark Sector Mission when the Rail is uncontested?

There should be an option to simply not participate. Allow me and my clan members on our merry way to Farmland. We'll pay our tribute as necessary.

I am indifferent when it comes to the petty squabbles of greed-driven Tenno. 


Edit: It matters not to me who mans the toll booth, simply that said toll is a reasonable price and way remains open.

Edited April 14, 2014 by Emeere

[LurkenLurker]

You know i feel bad the claims who launched seven rails someone had to be guinea pig and the sad part is they shot themselves in the foot if they would have have taxed people they would have had tons of credits to pay the battle pay for there guilds see what being Noble and stupid 

Edited April 14, 2014 by LurkenLurker

[Sanctusx2]

Except...as it stands.  No one is paying much more than a few hundred credits on either side, and in some cases those clans who have tons of rails are actually paying the most.

 

Incumbent seems favored right now.  I know I'm favoring them simply because the challenger effectively closed the farm for no reason.  Both sides are offering 0% on almost every node.  And with credit differences of only 500-1000, it comes down to just who you like more or who had the funniest trash talk.

Edited April 14, 2014 by Sanctusx2

[Paradoxity]

Except...as it stands.  No one is paying much more than a few hundred credits on either side, and in some cases those clans who have tons of rails are actually paying the most.

 

Incumbent seems favored right now.  I know I'm favoring them simply because the challenger effectively closed the farm for no reason.  Both sides are offering 0% on almost every node.  And with credit differences of only 500-1000, it comes down to just who you like more or who had the funniest trash talk.

 

Pretty much this. there was one alliance offering 4k- and they were an incumbent who'd run at 0% tax, so of course I'll run for them. But I'll run for 0% tax incumbents period- because I already know they're 0% tax. Well, that and the battlepay is usually some paltry amount that doesn't matter at all- seriously, who offers a 3 credit battlepay? that's almost insulting, really. 

 

Payout in these places is good enough I probably wouldn't mind a 3-5% tax on income, and we may see a lot of alliances switching to that later as the costs become more well known.

[KuroNekoXlll]

after reading like 2 pages, i still dont know why 0% taxes is bad

 

why the hate, i hear there is a cost to maintain the rails,.. if they wanna pay, its on them so i dont really care

 

any benefits to high taxes?

 

>cant really say much cuz ive never done dark sectors or payed much attention to it tbh

[fatpig84]

You know i feel bad the claims who launched seven rails someone had to be guinea pig and the sad part is they shot themselves in the foot if they would have have taxed people they would have had tons of credits to pay the battle pay for there guilds see what being Noble and stupid 

 

It depends.

Again the system is new, give it a week.

I can see more "high value" like Ceres rails to have minimal of 5% to 10% tax,

While the lower value ones like Venus / Earth are essentially free, as good will to newbies and the like.

[LurkenLurker]

after reading like 2 pages, i still dont know why 0% taxes is bad

 

why the hate, i hear there is a cost to maintain the rails,.. if they wanna pay, its on them so i dont really care

 

any benefits to high taxes?

 

>cant really say much cuz ive never done dark sectors or payed much attention to it tbh

 

 

 

The tax is there to pay for the rail and the battle pay when its contested all the free rail hippies shot themselves in the foot some of them had multiple rails but since they charged no tax they mad zero profit off of them now they cant sustain there rails or offer meaningful battle pay for supporting them there noble quest for free rails back fired on them big time. How can no one understand this

[Endorphinz]

This is another reason why DE clearly didn't think this through. I don't know what can be done to fix this, but whatever solution they pull out their asses next isn't going to please anyone probably.

[Aggh]

Once I get past the novelty of the tenno spectres, it's still pretty bland.  Especially if you're defending your Alliance's tower since you get virtually nothing out of it.  With so much other stuff that needs grinding, it feels like there needs to be a better incentive to make people want to take part in this.

 

 

Yep. And it's a good thing, too. Now we need them to make the Spectres fewer in number, make them Primes (because, you know, it makes sense being in an Orokin tower and all), make them stronger and melee+weapons. Replacing these enemies with the current spectres (and replacing the spectres with stronger, leader Primes) would make more sense. I mean, it is supposed to be a Tenno tower, and when is the last time we saw Tenno using Corpus tech?

It's an orokin  tower.  Corpus are using salvaged orokin tech.

Edited April 14, 2014 by Aggh

[Blatantfool]

It depends.

Again the system is new, give it a week.

I can see more "high value" like Ceres rails to have minimal of 5% to 10% tax,

While the lower value ones like Venus / Earth are essentially free, as good will to newbies and the like.

 

 I feel this will be likely as well.

[iNsaNitySOZ]

My personal believe is that the DE's should implement a minimum Tax level at the very least. 0% Taxes is bad for business, and that's what the Solar Rails are in the end. A Business.

 

If it were a business there wouldn't be free rails, would there. 

 

Don't look at it like that man, don't be that guy. 

 

You call it "free" I call it "shared." 

[KuroNekoXlll]

The tax is there to pay for the rail and the battle pay when its contested all the free rail hippies shot themselves in the foot some of them had multiple rails but since they charged no tax they mad zero profit off of them now they cant sustain there rails or offer meaningful battle pay for supporting them there noble quest for free rails back fired on them big time. How can no one understand this

soooo in otherwords the battlepay would be more beneficial to me than 0 taxes

except you need higher taxes to have higher battle pays.... huh o- o

so the compeition is good so i can get paid

ah ic ic

(somewat relevant but some of the first things that came to my mind was war being good cuz it creates more factory jobs to manufacture weapons and stuff)

[Hit-Monkey]

Hi guys! OP here, and man am I glad I posted this thread! So much discussion (and argument, but that's also fun).

 

While my opinion remains that I think Free Rails are a bad thing for everyone involved, the fact that there is something of an upkeep after all makes me happy that it'll give people something to consider.

 

As I kept reading, I realized that I went about my original post the wrong way. I hadn't known at the time that upkeep was a thing, thus thought it was gonna be perpetual Free Rails from one or two clans, and it was gonna be boring. Now I know it's gonna be a little boring for different reasons.

 

Now I can see that that's not the case, because the Free Rails simply won't be able to sustain themselves forever, unless they spend Plats on Creds, or are just that good at farming for credits.

 

Though I'm kind of surprised and disappointed that people are not forking out battle pays like I hoped they would. Ironically, after calling out Eclipse for their monopolization, I find myself going to Sinai, Jupiter to side with them, because they're the only ones paying a substantial amount of cash in the form of 1500.

 

I do want to prove that this Free Rails thing just doesn't work, so I'm be seeing how someone likes me fighting for them multiple times to get as much pay out of them.

 

So the moral of this story: 0% Tax Rails paying 0 Credits to contest 0% Tax Rails who pay 0 Credits is boring as hell.

 

EDIT: MADE WORSE by the fact that when the rails are contested, our 7000 Credit missions into the dark sector giving us +20% EXP per kill, and +20% XP more per specific weapon kill and +20% resource drop rate, is SHUT DOWN because of the conflict. These free rails damn well better compensate THOSE damages.

Edited April 14, 2014 by Hit-Monkey

[Triburos]

I do agree that the rails would be better for everyone if there were taxes.

 

Let's face it; you don't do Dark Sectors for credits or resources. You do them for the large &#! EXP bonuses. So why not give the rail holder a share of the credits?

 

This'll benefit you in the long run anyways, as battle pays during conflicts will rise since the rail holder can afford defenses. You'll be earning more credits in the long run.

 

Zero taxes are doing bugger all at the moment.

[Worira]

EDIT: MADE WORSE by the fact that when the rails are contested, our 7000 Credit missions into the dark sector giving us +20% EXP per kill, and +20% XP more per specific weapon kill and +20% resource drop rate, is SHUT DOWN because of the conflict. These free rails damn well better compensate THOSE damages.

 

Why? They're not the ones shutting down the rail.

[Hit-Monkey]

Why? They're not the ones shutting down the rail.

Yes they are, simply by virtue of being the ones contested and not giving people incentive to fight for them. Zero Battle Pay means zero incentive for me to care about your Free Rails.

[(PSN)Pengu_Imperialus]

Dark Sector: Week1.

Community ADD has already set in. We have begun to turn on each other. Douchetag420 began mumbling to himself. I approached him carefully as not to startle him. He was just saying, "Ninjas no can math" over and over again.

[Hit-Monkey]

Dark Sector: Week1.

Community ADD has already set in. We have begun to turn on each other. Douchetag420 began mumbling to himself. I approached him carefully as not to startle him. He was just saying, "Ninjas no can math" over and over again.

Pffft, ha, that's just funny. XD

[NjaII]

We should hire some Corpus managers.

[YourBusDriver]

"Or will the game factions need to?"

 

Steve. DE. You beautiful people.

 

It sounds like the factions will provide the need for "upkeep" for the rails.

I'd assume that the factions will randomly be attacking rails. Not to put them into a full contested state, of course.

 

If upkeep is charged (maintenance costs) the clan with the most money will win. All they have to do is spoon out minuscule amounts of money to cause artificial deflation i.e. they'll pay with their own money to keep the tax at zero - just to spite others. 

 

The average bank account in my clan is around 5 million - and we're roughly 150 strong - that's about 750 million credits on hand to dish out; excluding all the excess BPs people have laying around, and the occasional all plat user who will got bust for kicks. I know for sure that many clans have far more money than my clan!

 

And even if a maintenance cost aren't installed the whole deal will still come down to money. Cash clans will just pay higher battle fees, or they can hire high level grinders for a couple million, and forgo the cost altogether. 

 

Hmmm, I really should consider mercenary work...

 

 

But here's the catch...

 

 

All this credit drain is redistributing the credit pool. Obviously there is infinite inflation on credits because it's creation is unlimited; whereas the cost of materials and production is finite. Such costs cannot be changed in order to avoid bashing new users / those with small bank accounts. DE might have employed this game facet to actively slash large stock piles of credits - in order to get money out of large clans to slow research. Even if the tax rates don't improve DE will still profit in the long run.

Edited April 15, 2014 by YourBusDriver