Katana Use Two Hand To Hold, Why These Mistake Nearly Happen On Every Game?

[DoomFruit]

the warframes give the tenno super human strength in other words

Not as strong as the enemies are. I've seen ordinary Corpus crewmen leap ten metres up to get to me.

[DiabolusUrsus]

As was mentioned by others here,

"To wield the long sword with two hands is not the true way." - Miyamoto Musashi.

That said, that statement can be loosely interpreted to mean that you should be able to wield the katana in a single hand when necessary. He does not make explicit mention as to why it should never be wielded in two hands. I think it'd be best to mix in some swings where the Warframe holds the katana with both hands as well as one-handed swings.

I am in complete agreement about the lackluster and disappointing animations for swinging around the Nikana. It doesn't feel like a katana. It doesn't even feel like Iai. Tranquil Cleave comes off as trying to make the NIkana feel more like a katana, but it falls miserably short. It instead makes the weapon clunky, and completely neglects adding any non-horizontal strikes that are practical for attacking enemies in most situations. I'd really, really, really like to see a rework of the sword's animations. Please, DE. Please.

[kaboomonme]

Ehh give it some time. They will probably update the animations or release a new one altogether (Since katanas only have one stance as of now).

[matrixEXO]

Ehh give it some time. They will probably update the animations or release a new one altogether (Since katanas only have one stance as of now).

Sounds like a bad excuse for DE to laze about with the Katana's first stance and not do any revisiting on the animation. I don't like the easy way out because it shows the sloppiness and laziness of the developers. Releasing a new one is fine but we definitely need them to update this current one.

Edited April 14, 2014 by matrixEXO

[kaboomonme]

Sounds like a bad excuse for DE to laze about with the Katana's first stance and not do any revisiting on the animation. I don't like the easy way out because it shows the sloppiness and laziness of the developers. Releasing a new one is fine but we definitely need them to update this current one.

That much I agree with. Wish they put extra thought into the initial execution, but all we can do now is hope they patch up their mistakes and let the wounds heal.

[LionsPride]

I'm sure you know yourself that warframes are stronger than humans+ninja abilities

[Tulzscha]

I'd want niten'ichi stance mod.

Two swords(a katana and a wakizashi) should be sick.

 

Mirumoto's Niten style from L5R, yesssssss. Want.

 

[MirageKnight]

I think the reason why the nikana is wielded single-handed - or more accurately, with sword in one hand and sheath in the other - has to do with how weapon animations are handled. I'm not even sure it's possible for the sword to be drawn and then held with two hands while the sheath remains attached to the hip.

Basically I think it's a compromise. Which would you rather have: when the Nikana is "equipped" (hold down F) you have the sword drawn and held with both hands with the sheath attached to the hip or ready to draw with one hand as we have it now? Keep in mind the former option would entail more complex animations - if it's even doable.

[Scherhardt]

Mirumoto's Niten style from L5R, yesssssss. Want.

 

 

Heck yea, some devs should read L5R for weapon and stance reference.

 

I meant both the book and game. 

Edited April 14, 2014 by Scherhardt

[Vargras]

Nikana with Tranquil Cleave has several combos that involve using it with two hands.

 

Thread irrelevant. Move on.

[MirageKnight]

Nikana with Tranquil Cleave has several combos that involve using it with two hands.

 

Thread irrelevant. Move on.

I think what the OP wants to see is the Nikana being wielded with both hands on the grip, as opposed to having the sword in one hand and the sheath in the other. Just saying.

[Dalu__Ka]

I bet I can hold a Katana with just my thumb and index finger.

 

Besides, the weapon is called Nikana Katana.

For all we know Nikana means 1 handed.

Edited April 14, 2014 by Tenn00b

[pooptaco]

even the laido use both hands to hold sword after the frist strike if the warrier is not going to  replace the sword back in the scabbard immediately.

 

That would be hugely unusual: the exception, not the rule.  Almost every Iaido technique ends with the flick of the sword (to remove excess blood), and resheathing.  In fact, you can recognize an Iaido practitioner based on little else.

[matrixEXO]

I think the reason why the nikana is wielded single-handed - or more accurately, with sword in one hand and sheath in the other - has to do with how weapon animations are handled. I'm not even sure it's possible for the sword to be drawn and then held with two hands while the sheath remains attached to the hip.

Basically I think it's a compromise. Which would you rather have: when the Nikana is "equipped" (hold down F) you have the sword drawn and held with both hands with the sheath attached to the hip or ready to draw with one hand as we have it now? Keep in mind the former option would entail more complex animations - if it's even doable.

Right now, they are simply reusing animations and weapon settings that are exactly like how it is. The reason is because DE never thought about having a scabbard in the game. This is why an entire section of the frame engine (or whatever it is called that decides how an object in the world stays) needs to be reworked for it, and is something that DE isn't too fond of doing, given that they are pushing their deadline by 1 week. The fault lies in DE for not properly foreseeing this case and/or just isn't bothered to expect the unexpected (and not try to hype a system that isn't ready yet).

 

I bet I can hold a Katana with just my thumb and index finger.

 

Besides, the weapon is called Nikana Katana.

For all we know Nikana means 1 handed.

Jokingly: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ni_(kana) 

Edited April 14, 2014 by matrixEXO

[(PSN)eppy2900]

the nikana is designed as an iai blade which is one handed use from the sheathed position, draw and release 

[Nagisawa]

It's about the discipline, not because "i can hold it in one hand make me looks like much cooler and stronger"

 

 

and the animation of the skana in the frist trailer is more like a Katana than the Nikana, brandished with both hand and straight cuts.

 

Nikana is totally not a katana and the katana stances also not katana moves.

 

Some ppl said it's a Iaido style , but i can said, even the laido use both hands to hold sword after the frist strike if the warrier is not going to  replace the sword back in the scabbard immediately.

It's based on Japanese anime, and their love of the French, and Fencing.  Which to me is silly.  You have two hands, used them.

[SteeleTheShow]

Not as strong as the enemies are. I've seen ordinary Corpus crewmen leap ten metres up to get to me.

You know how I know the Infested, Corpus and Grineer are better than Tenno? They don't have to bother with elevators.

 

Sounds like a bad excuse for DE to laze about with the Katana's first stance and not do any revisiting on the animation. I don't like the easy way out because it shows the sloppiness and laziness of the developers. Releasing a new one is fine but we definitely need them to update this current one.

The nikana was the only weapon released with U13 that required an entirely new set of unique animation. I mean the default, no stance mod, animations, on top of the stance animation. Then, the stance got 3 combos. I think that is a good enough reason to only release 1 stance for the Nikana and I don't know why you're unhappy with 3 combos. Most other stances only get 1. Nobody pisses in the eyes of the developers who take enormous artistic license to the point of breaking reality (see ninja gaiden) by telling them "Not realistic enough". DE said they want it to be realistic, and fit within the Tenno universe and not have air juggling. Not "I want it to be exactly how the Japanese intended it to be thousands of years ago with no innovation".

 

I expect they have big, cool moves planned for the Nikana "The most anticipated melee weapon of all time". 

 

Nikana with Tranquil Cleave has several combos that involve using it with two hands.

 

Thread irrelevant. Move on.

This is true. I don't know why people can't just give the dev's some artistic license with animations. I think everything the Nikana does is sick. Who cares if it's not the same way that the weapon was used thousands and thousands of years ago. Why can't weapons styles change over this huge amount of time? 

Edited April 14, 2014 by SteeleTheShow

[Vargras]

This is true. I don't know why people can't just give the dev's some artistic license with animations. I think everything the Nikana does is sick. Who cares if it's not the same way that the weapon was used thousands and thousands of years ago. Why can't weapons styles change over this huge amount of time?

It's funny because this level of complaining over animations has only happened with the Nikana. Nothing else.

 

I'm sorely tempted to use a certain word to describe it.

It starts with "W" and ends in "Eeaboo".

[Dalu__Ka]

Well OP, nice try, better luck next time.

[Liminal]

This is true. I don't know why people can't just give the dev's some artistic license with animations. I think everything the Nikana does is sick. Who cares if it's not the same way that the weapon was used thousands and thousands of years ago. Why can't weapons styles change over this huge amount of time? 

"Becauserealism"

I agree though, screw real techniques, I want "awesome" not "authentic".

[DiabolusUrsus]

You know how I know the Infested, Corpus and Grineer are better than Tenno? They don't have to bother with elevators.

 

The nikana was the only weapon released with U13 that required an entirely new set of unique animation. I mean the default, no stance mod, animations, on top of the stance animation. Then, the stance got 3 combos. I think that is a good enough reason to only release 1 stance for the Nikana and I don't know why you're unhappy with 3 combos. Most other stances only get 1. Nobody &!$$es in the eyes of the developers who take enormous artistic license to the point of breaking reality (see ninja gaiden) by telling them "Not realistic enough". DE said they want it to be realistic, and fit within the Tenno universe and not have air juggling. Not "I want it to be exactly how the Japanese intended it to be thousands of years ago with no innovation".

 

I expect they have big, cool moves planned for the Nikana "The most anticipated melee weapon of all time". 

 

This is true. I don't know why people can't just give the dev's some artistic license with animations. I think everything the Nikana does is sick. Who cares if it's not the same way that the weapon was used thousands and thousands of years ago. Why can't weapons styles change over this huge amount of time? 

 

Yes, the Nikana got its own shiny set of animations and three two whole new combos, but the main cause for complaint from many of us is that those combos are for the most part impractical or nearly identical to the weapon's base combo. The same thing applies to artistic license for the devs. I'm perfectly happy to give them artistic license, but in the Nikana's case specifically, "artistic license" translates to an awkward half-second roll forward in the middle of Breathless Lunge that serves literally no purpose, and gives enemies plenty of opportunity to interrupt you or move away. The stance arguably damages the basic EEE combo by adding in an awkward pause in between the sets of three strikes, and "Hook and Eye" is essentially the basic combo with a dash forward at the end that is also fairly impractical for hitting anything that isn't Infested, in spite of looking cool. I would like the animations to be readjusted not simply because they are "inaccurate," but because they are "impractical," which I find ill-befitting of a particularly rare stance. 

 

I'm not particularly inclined to buy into the "from realism" argument considering that this is a game, but you said yourself that the devs want the animations to be fairly realistic. If you spend any decent amount of time learning about martial arts as they apply specifically to the use of melee weaponry, you should come to realize that pretty much every discipline has changed very little over the years. This is not, counter to what you might suspect, because martial arts are steeped in tradition, but because they emphasize the most effectively efficient movements possible for each weapon. There's not much room for the innovation of techniques. With cutting swords like the katana, however, purely horizontal strikes are scrapped almost immediately, because they offer no benefit that outweighs the faster swing speed and force that accompanies taking advantage of gravity. I'm not saying that weapon styles won't change over time. They won't, however, grow less practical provided that the style is used for combat rather than performance or entertainment purposes. 

 

It's funny because this level of complaining over animations has only happened with the Nikana. Nothing else.

 

I'm sorely tempted to use a certain word to describe it.

It starts with "W" and ends in "Eeaboo".

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/212182-melee-20-and-stances-what-it-should-have-been/

 

And you, sir, I shall ask to look over the thread I've just linked you to. Yes, I spend a bit of time talking about the Nikana, but I am in the process of progressively reviewing stances and their implementation as I find them in the hopes of converting every stance into something worth using outside of its bonus mod points. 

 

As for why the Nikana is getting so much attention right now... well,

a) It's new, and all of the other new melee weapons have decent animations, from what I can tell (or was that JUST the Nami Skyla...?) 

b) It's the only weapon that is a victim of its own unique grip and stance.

There are plenty of animation complaints for other weapons, they just fit into "Dual Swords" (Crossing Snakes,) "Sparring/Fist/Hand-to-Hand" or other general grip-types rather than specific weapons. Some animations are pretty damn good, and exceedingly well-integrated into actual gameplay. Others... aren't, and I've seen pretty much every single one of them called out and identified in other threads. 

 

Lastly... Weeaboo again? Really? What is it with people thinking that it's fashionable to be disdainful of people who like katanas? Does "The Galatine is a Greatsword; Let's Wield it Like One" ring any bells for you? It's not just the Nikana. I'm sorry that you apparently hear about katanas so nauseatingly often. 

[Oishii]

While I don't own a nikana and only have briefly seen other players use it so cant really comment on the stance. The traditional katanas are quite blade heavy swords and have relatively fat blades and are not balanced to be one handed swords. This game does not take place in feudal Japan so the reason could very well the material is quite different. Though the long blade handle would suggest that it is still designed to be a two handed sword.

[Thanatoasty]

Going from a lore perspective, the nikana IS built from oxium, which is suppose to be lighter than air, and I don't know whether or not you ever tried to 2 hand a long branch, but next time you do (seriously it's not hard to flail a branch around) try it with 2 hand, I guarantee you that it'll feel better with swinging it around with 1 hand, and since the nikana should be very light (made from oxium), holding the thing in 2 hands would be similar to the branch flailing experience described above, awkward, and not the least bit badass.

I wish we can incorporate the sheath into the attack animations for nikana, that'd be fun, especially when the tenno's left hand is free.

[underverse]

At the end it's nothing that a new katana stance mod added later on cannot fix anyway.

[Davoodoo]

Tranquil cleave have 1 move which uses scabbard to attack and it makes some sense to hold it that way for that move.
What also makes sense is that basic combo was made for fast attack when using gun so using only 1 hand also makes sense cause as soon as you finish attacking you put blade in scabbard and start firing again(that combo consists of max 2 moves).

As for holding blade in 1 hand, were mutated alien race in futuristic battle armor infused with energy, at some point putting more strength to swinging wont make much difference and we cant know for sure how much strength tenno have. Masters still use both hands cause they trained that way.

 

What makes no sense to me is stabbing with katana

Edited April 15, 2014 by Davoodoo