Lex/ Lex Prime Is Too Weak

[sneakatone]

Im comparing this to the marelok  because they are semi auto ish. I like the lex prime a lot but its quite weaker than the marelok. Knowing that its a slow fire rate , high recoil, and long reload weapon I expect it to be very strong but its not.The DPS plummets because of those factors. 

 

Its kinda like the latron before the buff , cool but weak. So it should get a buff similar to what happened.

[XenosInfinity]

I think Lex is fine. Marelok is a terrible comparison considering that its base damage is higher in every way than the rifle that matches it.

[baldy117]

one is a pistol the other rifle modded to be a pistol

[Deidaku]

I think Lex is fine. Marelok is a terrible comparison considering that its base damage is higher in every way than the rifle that matches it.

yep

 

Not fair to compare lex to GOD

 

Marelok is soo good. i'm keeping that gun forever

[Shackram]

It needs a quality of life buff. I'd bump it's ROF to 1.6 and reduce reload time to 1.8 so it's less awkward to use.

[sneakatone]

I just feel like the gun kinda becomes more useless at lvl 30 and higher because I have to use sacrifice damage for more utility slots like reduce recoil and fire rate. And depending on the person ,reload speed.

[Psychosist]

Lex: 70 DMG / 1.1 RoF
Raw DPS without crits: 77 DPS

 

Marelok: 160 DMG / 2.0 RoF

Raw DPS without crits: 320 DPS

 

I get we're comparing an underpowered weapon with one of the best sidearms, but the sheer powergap is jaw droppingly ridiculous. The Lex family needs a desperate buff.

 

edit:

 

For fun,

 

Pre-nerf Lato: 24 DMG / 6.7 RoF

Noncrit Raw DPS: 160.8 DPS

Edited April 18, 2014 by Psychosist

[[DE]Momaw]

As others have indicated, the problem here is Marelok, not Lex.  The thing is just massively OP to the point that I refuse to use it.  And just for comparison, I have no objection to the Brakk;   Brakk, at least, is limited in its effective range due to scatter and damage falloff.  The point of balance for Marelok is supposed to be its lower accuracy, but it is "less accurate" than the Grinlok rifle it completely replaces in much the same way that a sniper rifle is "less accurate" than a laser beam.

Edited April 18, 2014 by Momaw

[VKhaun]

Lex was my all time favorite when I first got the game a year ago, so I jumped on Lex Prime real quick and forma'd it immediately. I can two shot anything in the Pluto contested solar rail missions except Rhino, and I'm using a slot for reload speed.

 

It's fine IMO.

 

P.S.

It has a faster RoF than Attica :P

[taiiat]

Marelok is the true problem....

 

sort've glad i'm not the only person sane enough to see that.

 

 

and honestly, as usual, Lex Prime is Stat Creep over Lex, meaning it should be 'nerfed' instead. i could possibly see a slightly higher Crit Damage Multiplier though, as that's the big feature of the Weapon to start with, being able to hit like a truck.

[RuFi0]

I have polarized my Lex Prime 3 times. I have a full crit and status build on it. It has a 44% crit rate and a 66% status chance. I threw on the big 3, plus seeker for punch through, target cracker, pistol gambit, Jolt, and Heated Charge for radiation. I mainly use it for grineer. It does just fine in high level. Unles you're doing a survival on Ceres after 30 mins, that's when it starts to fall off, and only with heavy units. Everyone else still dies in 1 to 2 shots. Paris Prime fixes all that nonsense anyhow.

 

I think if you buffed it any more it might be OP. Maybe buff the slash and impact so that it's a good all-rounder.

[sneakatone]

I think the marelock is okay, Its not as overkill as my brakk. The difference in reload speed and fire rate kinda balances for me.

I know they are different guns and have a range difference but im comparing the best side arms.

Edited April 19, 2014 by sneakatone

[Drakontis]

I honestly think that either the Marelok needs a slight nerf or the Grinlok needs a buff merely because the rifle really should not be that much weaker than the sidearm. Especially when you factor in the mod multipliers. (Serration vs Hornet Strike, Multishot mods, etc). 

[GeneralArmchair]

Again, the lex is fine.  The marelok just needs a nerf.  Lowering the marelok's accuracy to the point where headshots are a dream beyond melee range would be a good start.

[HAYABU5A]

It needs a quality of life buff. I'd bump it's ROF to 1.6 and reduce reload time to 1.8 so it's less awkward to use.

this would be nice, not a dmg buff but a change to how it feels to use

 

needs that smooth sophisticated prime feeling

[shut]

Lowering the marelok's accuracy to the point where headshots are a dream beyond melee range would be a good start.

 

No. Bad. *utilizes squirt bottle*

 

We've already got the Brakk for that. The Marelok was designed as a mid-range weapon, and should stay in that niche. What it needs isn't a utility nerf, but a firepower nerf. There is no reason for it to be this powerful.

[yarash2110]

As others have indicated, the problem here is Marelok, not Lex.  The thing is just massively OP to the point that I refuse to use it.  And just for comparison, I have no objection to the Brakk;   Brakk, at least, is limited in its effective range due to scatter and damage falloff.  The point of balance for Marelok is supposed to be its lower accuracy, but it is "less accurate" than the Grinlok rifle it completely replaces in much the same way that a sniper rifle is "less accurate" than a laser beam.

the lex still has a problem, it has most of the stats of a sniper, but the damage is a ton less then most snipers, and it needs a buff, either in damage to 100 or more or in utility for ROF recoil and reload speed, even tho dps doesn't really work for the lex when caculated because recoil and your speed of reaiming the shot is not caculateble still, look at the diffrance between lex and its kind of counterparts, with diffrant damage types (also making it have mostly slash is ridiculous, slowest weapon ever aginst infested?)

Lex: 70 damage

77 dps

Magnus: 45 damage

107 dps

Vasto: 50 damage

136 dps

We can see that there is a gap, and its not small, btw these numbers are from warframe builder, i did not caculate them

[[DE]Momaw]

I honestly think that either the Marelok needs a slight nerf or the Grinlok needs a buff merely because the rifle really should not be that much weaker than the sidearm. Especially when you factor in the mod multipliers. (Serration vs Hornet Strike, Multishot mods, etc). 

 

Just for the sake of trivia, 

 

Grinlok

120 damage

* 2.65 (Serration)

* 1.9 (Split Chamber)

* 1.7 (shots per second)

= 640 average damage/second

 

Marelok

160 damage

* 3.20 (Hornet Strike)

* 2.2 (Barrel Diffusion)

* 2.0 (shots per second)

= 2253 average damage/second

 

In order for the Marelok to end up at the same damage/second as the Grinlok, given the inherent and laughable superiority of the core pistol mods, its base damage would have to be...   45.

[Stoogedoobis]

For all you scrubs who dont k ow why marelok is stronger than marelok here is a brief lesson. The marelok is based off of a real gun that was nicknamed the "mare's leg". It was called such because of its short and bulky appearance. That appearance is due to the fact that soldiers would take their rifle (flint...or grinlok in this case) and cut off the barrel like a sawed off shotgun to increase power, reduce size (so as to use as a sidearm), but decreased accuracy. Marelok is where it should be damage-wise compared to the grinlok but is still a ridiculously strong gun. Thank you and good night

[yarash2110]

For all you scrubs who dont k ow why marelok is stronger than marelok here is a brief lesson. The marelok is based off of a real gun that was nicknamed the "mare's leg". It was called such because of its short and bulky appearance. That appearance is due to the fact that soldiers would take their rifle (flint...or grinlok in this case) and cut off the barrel like a sawed off shotgun to increase power, reduce size (so as to use as a sidearm), but decreased accuracy. Marelok is where it should be damage-wise compared to the grinlok but is still a ridiculously strong gun. Thank you and good night

this is not some improvised weapon, its a beast, and this is not real life where te stronger the weapon the better it is, in a video game unlike real life you are trying to get balance and a chalange, so stop comparing real life to video games in any way, just stop

[Stoogedoobis]

this is not some improvised weapon, its a beast, and this is not real life where te stronger the weapon the better it is, in a video game unlike real life you are trying to get balance and a chalange, so stop comparing real life to video games in any way, just stop

You dont get what I am saying at all, do you? I am just saying grinlok has no reason to be stronger than marelok. If there was balance id be using my lato instead of my marelok 45 minutes into a t3 solo survival run.

[[DE]Momaw]

For all you scrubs who dont k ow why marelok is stronger than marelok here is a brief lesson. The marelok is based off of a real gun that was nicknamed the "mare's leg". It was called such because of its short and bulky appearance. That appearance is due to the fact that soldiers would take their rifle (flint...or grinlok in this case) and cut off the barrel like a sawed off shotgun to increase power, reduce size (so as to use as a sidearm), but decreased accuracy. Marelok is where it should be damage-wise compared to the grinlok but is still a ridiculously strong gun. Thank you and good night

 

For all you scrubs that don't know how internal ballistics works, here is a brief lesson.

 

A cartridge is composed of a projectile, a propellent charge, a primer, and a casing to hold everything together.  When the trigger is actuated, a firing pin strikes the primer which contains an impact-sensitive explosive.  The primer explodes, sending sparks and hot gas into the propellent charge, igniting it.  The propellent burns with exceeding force and violence, expanding in volume many many times from its solid granular form to its gaseous combustion products. This expanding blast of hot gas pushes on the rear end of the projectile, accelerating it down the barrel.  The interior of the barrel, called the bore, contains the propellant gasses and keeps them pushing on the projectile to keep it moving faster and faster instead of simply dissipating.

 

As a rule: The longer the barrel is, the more time the propellant gasses are contained and directed, which leads to an increase in projectile speed, until such time as friction between the projectile and the bore surface is higher than the input of energy from the expanding gas behind it.

 

Now, there IS an element of diminishing returns here.  The energy gained by the projectile is most significant early in the acceleration when the propelling gasses are at their most energetic.  Also ammunition designers can also tailor their cartridge loading to different barrel lengths, trading acceleration and power (fast burning powder) against safety and mechanical durability (slow burning powders). Pistol rounds are by design meant to achieve their useful speed very quickly because they are generally fired from short barrels. Firing a round designed for short barrels in a long barrel will lead to some amount of energy gained beyond the design specification.  Contrariwise, rifle rounds are by design meant to achieve their useful speed in a rifle, i.e. about 18 inches or longer of barrel.  Firing a round designed for long barrels out of a short barrel wastes some of its designed performance and will also lead to quite amazing amounts of noise and muzzle flash because the slower-burning propellant gasses are being released before fully combusting and dumping their energy into the bullet.

 

Cutting the barrel down does not make a firearm more powerful.  In fact quite the opposite.  Short barrel = less time accelerating = slower projectile.  Cutting a barrel is entirely about maneuverability and concealability. (And is also a far more nuanced operation than fiction would like you to believe, if you want the resulting firearm to be able to hit the broad side of a barn).

 

 

Hope you learned something. o/

[KoshLovesYou]

You dont get what I am saying at all, do you? I am just saying grinlok has no reason to be stronger than marelok. If there was balance id be using my lato instead of my marelok 45 minutes into a t3 solo survival run.

 

Yeah, no, the Grinlok has been laughably underpowered even before the Marelok rolled out. For a clan weapon, it's remarkable how bad of a choice it is compared to the non-clan sniper rifles players can get. And the Marelok is hilariously overpowered (he typed, using it frequently regardless). It functions as a sniper rifle pistol easily; going for headshots, rather than spamming damage at range, works amazing. More so with a little zoom mod with leftover space.

 

Lex Prime DOES have a teeny tiny edge on crit build potential over the Marelok, but I just DON'T think it's enough to make up the gap in raw damage. For a Prime weapon, that's a big problem. (See: Prime Latron buff.)

 

Maybe we'll get a Prime Hikou soon instead, if Lex Prime doesn't get a crit and accuracy build buff to rival the Marelok's raw damage and relative stability.

[Stoogedoobis]

You are talking about a rifle that uses bullets with casings. Flintlock rifles did not however.

I love the grinlok's style, and I do agree it is weaker than it seems it should be. At this point in the game i am basically going to use my melee and lex prime only.

Edited April 19, 2014 by Stoogedoobis

[KoshLovesYou]

 

Hope you learned something. o/

 

 

You are talking about a rifle that uses bullets with casings. Flintlock rifles did not however.

 

...Could you BOTH have missed the point of this thread ANY more?