Nerfing Trinity, A Dangerous Proposition

[Archwizard]

Suggestion I already wrote up (and I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks of it), change Blessing from "damage immunity for ~28sec" to

 

Grants damage immunity for 1 sec per rank unaffected by Power Duration, maximum 4 sec (like Snow Globe). In addition to this, Blessing multiplies the maximum health and shields of affected allies for its usual duration (affected by Power Strength and Power Duration) and heals them up to this new cap. Maximum range of 25 meters at max rank, affected by Power Range.

 

No longer map-wide god-mode, still useful for healing, brief window for suicide tactics. It would also need her other abilities to be adjusted as well, Well of Life in particular to supplement her need for additional healing.

[Lorane_Airwing]

Eh, about time well of life got some use. Now if only DE could grind it into every other players head not to kill EVed and WLed enemies as soon as they are tagged with the ability. Link already got a nerf itself so I have no clue if they are revisiting it as well. Blessing is op, yes, just as end game is utterly broken as all it brings to the table is higher numbers and insta death without it. At least things will be a bit more challenging .... maybe? Oh well, time to break out WL for once and start learning how to use it instead of blessing.

[GSDAkatsuki]

After reading a number of the posts on here about taking the challenge completely out of the game, I wondered to myself. How many of you go try to do Tower 3 Survivals on your own? With one other person? It's VERY hard to do for very long even with potatoed, max moded weapons. How are these abilities, for any of the frames, OP? Volt's Overload is useless in T3 Void and upper level grineer. Even Rhino's Stomp won't do enough. In the regular star chart missions, yes we're OP, but that is the fun part. If you want a challenge, try T3 Void Survival alone for 30min. If THAT is too easy... Then I salute you, and I request that you stop asking for nerfs so the rest of us can get to your point.

Oh look another one of these crybabies. The current generation of gamers are just a bunch of scrubs that need everything dumbed down for them. First of all, survival and defense are already a broken concept to begin with and falls to the developers needing to fix gameplay itself and its so called "end game." Defense and survival are just artificial means of ramping up difficulty without actually challenging the players by adapting. These artificial means just means making the enemies take more hits or they just do more damage, but in the end the AI doesn't do anything new or unpredictable and they do not learn from the actions the player makes. This is what always makes defense and survival a terrible excuse of stating itself as "end game" measures of preventing overpowered skills from being nerfed.

[SoulEchelon]

I agree about the difficulty of a "fair" nerf.

 

You end up facing ennemies that can oneshoot you.

 

Without a strong mitigating skill... Well.

 

Enemies that can one shoot you tend to be past level 50. Before that, yes there is quite a bit of challenge...hence why people shouldn't just always go in guns blazing. I'm not saying you do, however.

 

Never did any of the devs say that they'll be removing Blessing or any of her abilities. Nerfing can mean anything. More than likely, it won't give invulnerability anymore. Instead I'm guessing it'll give high damage mitigation and be placed on a longish cooldown. I'm perfectly fine with that. Blessing should be an osht/active yet controlled support button, not a instawin one that can be spammed indefinitely.

Edited April 26, 2014 by SoulEchelon

[SoulEchelon]

After reading a number of the posts on here about taking the challenge completely out of the game, I wondered to myself. How many of you go try to do Tower 3 Survivals on your own? With one other person? It's VERY hard to do for very long even with potatoed, max moded weapons. How are these abilities, for any of the frames, OP? Volt's Overload is useless in T3 Void and upper level grineer. Even Rhino's Stomp won't do enough. In the regular star chart missions, yes we're OP, but that is the fun part. If you want a challenge, try T3 Void Survival alone for 30min. If THAT is too easy... Then I salute you, and I request that you stop asking for nerfs so the rest of us can get to your point.

 

Survival and Defense were not meant to be played solo. People who do, at least at very high levels, have -heavily- modded their gear and are, for the most part, exploiting broken mechanics (*cough, Trinity's Blessing*) Those two missions are literally the only ones that are tailored towards grouping (Other than MD, Invasion, and Interception). Your argument is invalid.

 

*edit oops, dat doublepost. can't delete posts anymore so *shrugs*

Edited April 26, 2014 by SoulEchelon

[Sirogrif]

Oh look another one of these crybabies. The current generation of gamers are just a bunch of scrubs that need everything dumbed down for them. First of all, survival and defense are already a broken concept to begin with and falls to the developers needing to fix gameplay itself and its so called "end game." Defense and survival are just artificial means of ramping up difficulty without actually challenging the players by adapting. These artificial means just means making the enemies take more hits or they just do more damage, but in the end the AI doesn't do anything new or unpredictable and they do not learn from the actions the player makes. This is what always makes defense and survival a terrible excuse of stating itself as "end game" measures of preventing overpowered skills from being nerfed.

So would your suggestion then be to introduce new game modes? If so, what and how? I, like you, would like to see more interesting enemies to go up against or game-play in general. Perhaps those pack Zanukas become more common instead of being bosses, for example? But then, this line of thought is going in a tangent and has little to do with nerfing different frames and more to do with endgame, which is still a very big work in progress according to the devs. Perhaps you should take your suggestion elsewhere.

By the way, no need for name calling. This is a friendly forum after all.

[Tsak]

 

One suggestion I just thought of for fixing this Blessing overuse problem: Make Blessing cost more energy which makes constant casting harder. Another suggestion is perhaps extend the time between casting.

 

Even if they do this, you won't enjoy the skill, it needs to be changed or gutted. upping the energy cost is a bandaid on cancer, it won't solve it's problem.

It's one thing to have invulnerability but it's another to be completely unkillable (save the stalker using dispel)

[GSDAkatsuki]

So would your suggestion then be to introduce new game modes? If so, what and how? I, like you, would like to see more interesting enemies to go up against or game-play in general. Perhaps those pack Zanukas become more common instead of being bosses, for example? But then, this line of thought is going in a tangent and has little to do with nerfing different frames and more to do with endgame, which is still a very big work in progress according to the devs. Perhaps you should take your suggestion elsewhere.

By the way, no need for name calling. This is a friendly forum after all.

Not really, the problem now is that their choice of allowing mods to alter the frames and their abilities were not balanced with the actual gameplay. It all correlates with one another in that the devs are not properly planning out the game and just throwing out content without thinking. Pretty much all their updates are like this, the recent melee 2.0 is like this as well.

[Sirogrif]

Even if they do this, you won't enjoy the skill, it needs to be changed or gutted. upping the energy cost is a bandaid on cancer, it won't solve it's problem.

It's one thing to have invulnerability but it's another to be completely unkillable (save the stalker using dispel)

True, but what is the greater problem that you're referring to here? I thought the issue was just people abusing Blessing by taking the challenge out of a survival mission for the rest of the team, as Scott said today. If a given player who uses Trinity doesn't want to be invincible all the time, then just don't use the ability so frequently, or don't use Trinity if the dark side pulls at you too much... :)  Anyway, I would hardly say that Trinity is unkillable thanks to blessing, just walk into a crowd of grineer 30 minutes into a survival mission on like Sedna, like I stupidly do sometimes, and you'll die no matter how many times you use blessing because there's too many grineer.

[Sirogrif]

Not really, the problem now is that their choice of allowing mods to alter the frames and their abilities were not balanced with the actual gameplay. It all correlates with one another in that the devs are not properly planning out the game and just throwing out content without thinking. Pretty much all their updates are like this, the recent melee 2.0 is like this as well.

I would have to agree, they do a lot of updating without planning. Perhaps they're taking the "we're still in beta" thought line a little too far, or they're listening just a little too much to us as we sometimes impatiently beg them for new content. The latter is of course a fine line to walk. There have been times when I thought that the devs needed to not listen to us for what they should do, and just do what they think is best for their game. We're here for feedback after all. That's what a beta is for.

[GSDAkatsuki]

I would have to agree, they do a lot of updating without planning. Perhaps they're taking the "we're still in beta" thought line a little too far, or they're listening just a little too much to us as we sometimes impatiently beg them for new content. The latter is of course a fine line to walk. There have been times when I thought that the devs needed to not listen to us for what they should do, and just do what they think is best for their game. We're here for feedback after all. That's what a beta is for.

One of the things I feel the Devs need to do is to actually figure out what their ending project for this game is. Plan big first and then outline what the game has now and how they need to slowly advance through each checkpoint to reach the final content that they want for this game. From there they can also see what they need to downsize or hold off on. At the moment like you said, it seems like they have no sense in what they want for this game and are just slowly slapping on stuff just to get things done and maybe extend the game's lifespan just a bit instead of thinking ahead of making long term goals.

Edited April 26, 2014 by GSDAkatsuki

[Sirogrif]

One of the things I feel the Devs need to do is to actually figure out what their ending project for this game is. Plan big first and then outline what the game has now and how they need to slowly advance through each checkpoint to reach the final content that they want for this game. From there they can also see what they need to downsize or hold off on. At the moment like you said, it seems like they have no sense in what they want for this game and are just slowly slapping on stuff just to get things done and maybe extend the game's lifespan just a bit instead of thinking ahead of making long term goals.

Agreed. Every now and then though, we do see hints that they have some idea of what endgame looks like. Vor's Prize keeps popping up. The Focus system is next in the lineup for work, supposedly. They seem to be hiding whatever idea they do have for endgame and maybe a checklist of sorts we're not privy to, but none of that is a reason for putting out content that isn't quite "problem" free.

[fatpig84]

Just give it a limited range like 10 meters.

Then Narrow minded will actually do more harm than good so you won't just blindly pick it.

[Archwizard]

Just give it a limited range like 10 meters.

Then Narrow minded will actually do more harm than good so you won't just blindly pick it.

 

Doesn't tackle Ogriciders.

[Leuca]

I'm actually sick of reading this. Nerfing Trinity will do nothing for the lower level content the Devs are balancing around, because the invuln isn't even necessary there. You can get by perfectly fine (until enemies get to the point of 1 or 2-shotting you) with a CC frame like Nyx+almost any other mess of frames you can think of. After that, invulnerability becomes necessary. You can whine and moan about how it's just because it lasts too long, or that it lets you blow yourself up with Link, but if enemy scaling didn't get so ridiculous there'd be no argument against nerfing Trinity in the first place. Changing how duration affects Blessing will just reduce the clock players use to cycle Blessing casts; it won't significantly change anything else.

[low1991]

After reading a number of the posts on here about taking the challenge completely out of the game, I wondered to myself. How many of you go try to do Tower 3 Survivals on your own? With one other person?

what? why should i go solo T3 survival alone or duo it?

are you trying to say that max blessing duration is a "NEED" for T3 survival? (current blessing)

like it is to frost in any other non-infested defense/survival mission? (old snow globe)

if yes than, these skills above are OP to change the whole entire game.

 

if you want to talk about Invisibility, you'r just un target-able by enemies only, and not invulnerable.

Valkyr Hystersia, she's melee for this duration. 

[DoomFruit]

Enemies that can one shoot you tend to be past level 50. Before that, yes there is quite a bit of challenge...hence why people shouldn't just always go in guns blazing. I'm not saying you do, however.

 

Never did any of the devs say that they'll be removing Blessing or any of her abilities. Nerfing can mean anything. More than likely, it won't give invulnerability anymore. Instead I'm guessing it'll give high damage mitigation and be placed on a longish cooldown. I'm perfectly fine with that. Blessing should be an osht/active yet controlled support button, not a instawin one that can be spammed indefinitely.

High, static damage mitigation is crap. Link gives you 90% resistance, but will still get you killed past 1h-1h 30m in T3 survival.

 

Stop the infinite enemy level scaling. Then you can destroy the abilities that let us survive it. Do NOT do it the other way around.

[Marthrym]

High, static damage mitigation is crap. Link gives you 90% resistance, but will still get you killed past 1h-1h 30m in T3 survival.

 

Stop the infinite enemy level scaling. Then you can destroy the abilities that let us survive it. Do NOT do it the other way around.

^This. Remove the stupid damage scaling that make enemies godlike past a certain point, and maybe nerfing the one ability that makes getting there possible won't be like shooting ourselves in the foot. Think about it, people complain (and not that many let's be honest, only the eternal nucleus of people who think complaining is like breathing, you can't live without it) about "OP" Blessing now. Imagine when when they won't have it to save their skins anymore, they will complain again, probably even more.

Change the level scaling, and ONLY THEN abilities like Blessing can be changed. Right now, they are the one thing that counters a broken system.

[PeterKha]

Blessing is sucking the skill out of the player base. I totally approve of nerfing it into the ground.

So ignorant with that statement.

 

I'm all good with nerfs, I could care less if Trinity gets nerfed to the ground to be made absolutely useless but if you're going to do that, then you need to do that for every other top tier frame that "sucks the skill out of the player base" There are so many other frame skills in this game that make this game not a "challenge" as others like to use that flawed argument. 

 

If you're going to nerf trinity, nerf everything else and give the entire system a complete overhaul otherwise leave everything as it is because the game is fine as it is. I rarely see trinities being used and the amount of the Nyx's, Vaubans, Frosts, Novas, Rhino, Mag, Nekros that are being used and have game breaking skills are just pretty much left there. Vauban is still viable even with the bastille nerf, vortex can create so many choke points if you wanted to at the cost of 25 energy, globe is still very viable in this game despite the damage cap they put on it.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not here to stop the nerf, I basically want things done right and people to stop with their bullS#&$ flawed argument based around "challenge" in this game because quite frankly, there is no challenge in this game. So if you're going to nerf one frame, might as well nerf every other top tier frame in order to balance everything out because all that's going to do is have people bandwagon to another top tier frame of their choice and "abuse" another "game breaking" skill.

[RealPandemonium]

Nerfing how hard our attacks hit them is one thing, nerfing our best means of defending ourselves is a far more serious issue.

 

The best means of defending oneself is having good movement and attacking habits that mitigate the amount of damage received by avoiding it entirely.  

[Bazools]

Yep... Trin is a bit OP imo yet quite helpful with lvl +100 enemies. Although i would advise the devs to take it easy with the nerf they give her (Frost comes to mind)

Edited April 26, 2014 by Bazools

[(PSN)billy-d-squid]

So ignorant with that statement.

 

I'm all good with nerfs, I could care less if Trinity gets nerfed to the ground to be made absolutely useless but if you're going to do that, then you need to do that for every other top tier frame that "sucks the skill out of the player base" There are so many other frame skills in this game that make this game not a "challenge" as others like to use that flawed argument. 

 

If you're going to nerf trinity, nerf everything else and give the entire system a complete overhaul otherwise leave everything as it is because the game is fine as it is. I rarely see trinities being used and the amount of the Nyx's, Vaubans, Frosts, Novas, Rhino, Mag, Nekros that are being used and have game breaking skills are just pretty much left there. Vauban is still viable even with the bastille nerf, vortex can create so many choke points if you wanted to at the cost of 25 energy, globe is still very viable in this game despite the damage cap they put on it.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not here to stop the nerf, I basically want things done right and people to stop with their bullS#&$ flawed argument based around "challenge" in this game because quite frankly, there is no challenge in this game. So if you're going to nerf one frame, might as well nerf every other top tier frame in order to balance everything out because all that's going to do is have people bandwagon to another top tier frame of their choice and "abuse" another "game breaking" skill.

 

 

Really? Because I just did a defence on Pluto where the Trinity stood by the objective and pressed 4, then didn't move for the rest of the game. The entire game. Only coming back every couple of minutes to press 4 again.

 

So please, do shut up.

[(PSN)billy-d-squid]

Yep... Trin is a bit OP imo yet quite helpful with lvl +100 enemies. Although i would advise the devs to take it easy with the nerf they give her (Frost comes to mind)

 SG in it's current state isn't bad at all actually, it's his 4th and 2nd powers which are horrible at the moment. 1st is okay, but could do with some love. 

[PeterKha]

Really? Because I just did a defence on Pluto where the Trinity stood by the objective and pressed 4, then didn't move for the rest of the game. The entire game. Only coming back every couple of minutes to press 4 again.

 

So please, do shut up.

lel. Alright if invincibility is so great, do a wave 200 grineer/corpus with invincibility alone. You're not going to die but your pod sure as hell will go down in a split second. 

 

CC > Invincibility in this game. All you need in this game is a @(*()$ brain to keep yourself alive and not die. CC allows you to protect the objective. Now if blessing made the pod in a defence invincible then that'd be a problem but a wave 200 corpus/grineer. I'd choose frost bubble > trinity's blessing any day of the week. 

[(PSN)billy-d-squid]

lel. Alright if invincibility is so great, do a wave 200 grineer/corpus with invincibility alone. You're not going to die but your pod sure as hell will go down in a split second. 

 

CC > Invincibility in this game. All you need in this game is a @(*()$ brain to keep yourself alive and not die. CC allows you to protect the objective. Now if blessing made the pod in a defence invincible then that'd be a problem but a wave 200 corpus/grineer. I'd choose frost bubble > trinity's blessing any day of the week. 

 

So at wave 200, it's not OP, we'll just ignore the rest of the content in the game so we can all spend the next 2 hours grinding to wave 200, what an utterly moronic obtuse argument that only someone with half a brain would ever use.

 

CC is great, until it doesn't do a damn thing anymore, when your weapons don't inflict enough damage to kill things, enemy shots will one shot you and spamming CC powers leaves you running out of energy. Blessing renders all of it irrelevant, why do you think every time there's a high lvl T3 survival run someone will want a Trinity in the squad. 

 

If you chose Frost's bubble in it's current form over Blessing you're being utterly disingenuous when you bloody well know that SG doesn't last 10 seconds against a spawn at the higher lvls, whereas blessing you can dance around with no risk at all.