Glorious Battle And Victory In The Name Of Your Clan [Dark Sector Megathread]

[Xylia]

Still find it odd that Eclipse is taxing everyone but their own members for use of the rail. I'm going to be brutally honest... that's a scumbag thing to do. It's like letting politicians not pay taxes.

 

25% tax for non-Eclipse players. 0% tax for Eclipse players. 

 

No one should be exempt. Especially not your members, Eclipse. Don't be that guy.

 

Their own members don't get Battlepay. It balances out.

 

Why should they pay a tax AND be not able to get the Battlepay? That's not fair.

[MegaSnail]

Still find it odd that Eclipse is taxing everyone but their own members for use of the rail. I'm going to be brutally honest... that's a scumbag thing to do. It's like letting politicians not pay taxes.

 

25% tax for non-Eclipse players. 0% tax for Eclipse players. 

 

No one should be exempt. Especially not your members, Eclipse. Don't be that guy.

... this thread made me dislike Eclipse... 

[Louisdesnow]

Still find it odd that Eclipse is taxing everyone but their own members for use of the rail. I'm going to be brutally honest... that's a scumbag thing to do. It's like letting politicians not pay taxes.

 

25% tax for non-Eclipse players. 0% tax for Eclipse players. 

 

No one should be exempt. Especially not your members, Eclipse. Don't be that guy.

But then there wouldn't be an incentive for Eclipse members to stay in the alliance as opposed to joining a new clan and fighting for the large battle pay.

Edited April 28, 2014 by Louisdesnow

[Lediard]

Still find it odd that Eclipse is taxing everyone but their own members for use of the rail. I'm going to be brutally honest... that's a scumbag thing to do. It's like letting politicians not pay taxes.

 

25% tax for non-Eclipse players. 0% tax for Eclipse players. 

 

No one should be exempt. Especially not your members, Eclipse. Don't be that guy.

 

Only one node is 0% for Eclipse members.  Please don't sit there and claim that their members are tax-exempt in their entirety when a quick check is all that is required to disprove that.

[Xylia]

Assuming I am on at the exact time the peak pay is. It also means a lot of people cannot make it back. I lose simply because battlepay is limited compared to tax.

 

More Tax = More Battlepay.

 

Oh, wait, you're complaining about having to pay taxes and you already run for 0 battlepay so... why again are we complaining about battlepay, again?

[Kartumterek]

Power grab is the name of the game, not once did they lie about taxes, no one from Eclipse lied about repair costs.  Someone was bound to attack a zero tax node at some point, that was a matter of time.  The vast majority of the people who have belittled you for your heavy-handed propaganda tactics have not been Eclipse members.  

 

DE designed this so that whomever can hold the rails the most, will do so.  

 

but what about "for the greater good"

 

that pretense is done away with? im sure that you can still milk that some more

[Verazix]

You forgot about Battlepay, too.

 

1/4 of everything everyone makes there, considering it's easily one of the largest pay outs in game, is a huge, huge number that will not go to maintenance, but to funding more of the solar rail take over.

 

 

 

You can't blame them for wanting to shave some off the top. Even After Taxes it is still the most profitable non-key mission in the game. 25% of 21,000 is 15,250. That's right on par with Void 1. BUT, you don't need Void Keys to do Dark Sector.

 

I don't blame Eclipse in the slightest for what they're doing,It's an extremely intelligent ploy, and kudos to Eclipse for going for it.

 

 

Seems to me I neither blame them nor forgot anything and you just read what you wanted to read and pick it apart.

 

Doing 20 missions at 10k battle pay per mission will take far longer (and be far more situational) than just doing 10 missions at my own leisure for 20k each.

 

I'm not sure what you're trying to argue with me, when I'm not an anti-Eclipse player, I'm just a "I want my farm spot!" player who is admitting to his own greed being the reason he's willing to fight against Eclipse in the first place.  You're asking me to give up 25% of my cake forever for a plate that I'll be given a flat amount of cake for.  I think I'd rather keep my free plate and keep all my extra slices of cake to myself rather than take that miniscule piece(s) of cake you're offering me for a quarter of my earnings for who knows how long.  Anyone who sees differently is either an Eclipse supporter (like you), or doesn't understand economics.  Or just doesn't play Dark Sectors and wants high pay outs, but they probably don't realize just how profitable this particular node is if they do that.

[LadyScootaloo]

^^

This.

 

You could whine about "losing" 200k over 50 missions, OR you could just pony up, and then make that same 200k back later by doing 20 missions at 10k battlepay per defense mission.

Again. This also requires I be on at specific times. Do consider casual players, too.

What reasons did Eclipse have to attack Sechura? It certainly will make most casuals suffer a loss. It certainly doesn't help newbies. It certainly isn't for the good of all.

SoV has been doing a good job of keeping Sechura free of tax. What excuse is there to change that?

[LadyScootaloo]

More Tax = More Battlepay.

 

Oh, wait, you're complaining about having to pay taxes and you already run for 0 battlepay so... why again are we complaining about battlepay, again?

Because sooooome people keep telling me to make it back through battlepay.

Nice fallacy walkoff, mate.

[Salishaz]

How Hypocritical.

 

You're whining about a maintenance tax on the Solar Rail because you want to keep all of your earnings to yourself instead of putting a modest slice towards the maintenance of the rail that allows you to do the sodding mission in the first place.

 

So... everybody opposing the tax is just as greedy, if not moreso, than those who support the taxed rails.

 

Greetings, Tenno.

 

This may in theory be an argument if the people providing the rail were not happy to do so for the community and not asking for ANYTHING in return. If they are being greedy, it is because we want them to be.

 

 

-Salishaz, Warlord of the Shadows of Vengeance

 

[Edited for Grammar]

Edited April 28, 2014 by Salishaz

[Lediard]

but what about "for the greater good"

 

that pretense is done away with? im sure that you can still milk that some more

 

The only greater good I am concerned with is that of my clan, and my alliance, in that order.  I don't think anyone can fault me for that.  In such a competitive game, I have no time to be concerned for the entire player base.  I look after me and mine.  Everything else is gravy as far as I'm concerned.

[Xylia]

Doing 20 missions at 10k battle pay per mission will take far longer (and be far more situational) than just doing 10 missions at my own leisure for 20k each.

 

So... ~1h (20x 3 min) for 200k credits is "far longer" than 10 5-Wave Defense or 10 5min Survival?

 

Riiiiiiight.

Edited April 28, 2014 by Xylia

[traficonserv]

wow this is gonna be interesting to watch.

i dont really care about who is gonna win

but the forums will be interesting to read when the battle ends.

 

Eclipse has made a lot of drama about the rail system.

making people watch their movements

eventhough the rail gameplay is very repetitive

[PhotriusPyrelus]

So... ~1h (20x 3 min) for 200k credits is "far longer" than 10 5-Wave Defense or 10 5min Survival?

 

Riiiiiiight.

Yeah, you're forgetting how battle pay is available for vastly shorter time than the DS mission itself.

[Kartumterek]

The only greater good I am concerned with is that of my clan, and my alliance, in that order.  I don't think anyone can fault me for that.  In such a competitive game, I have no time to be concerned for the entire player base.  I look after me and mine.  Everything else is gravy as far as I'm concerned.

 

haha if only this had been what was presented to the playerbase first, not after

 

play on playa

[LadyScootaloo]

So... ~1h (20x 3 min) for 200k credits is "far longer" than 10 5-Wave Defense or 10 5min Survival?

 

Riiiiiiight.

If it requires he be on at specific times as well as have to constantly rush the mission rather than to play at his own pace... well. Yeah. No tax is easier for the majority of the players, who, I remind you, are casuals.

[Letter13]

Only one node is 0% for Eclipse members.

It's really convenient that it also happens to be really the -only- node that people play.

[holdenagincourt]

So basically you expect the clans to maintain the solar rails for free? You want all of them to give you 0% tax, and allow you to infinitely run the mission, without any support from yourself?

 

People need to stop making this spurious argument.

 

The cost of researching and building a solar rail is trivial for even a Ghost clan and actually entirely manageable for an individual player given even a few days of farming the correct places, with perhaps some Plastids already in reserve necessary.

 

The capital cost of solar rails is incontrovertibly not an issue. This is apparent to anyone who has built the Orokin Lab.

 

The cost of maintaining a solar rail, which only activates when that solar rail is attacked, is a second part to this cost argument. But it is equally spurious.

 

First, the cost of repairing a solar rail post-conflict is negligible, even for a small group or an individual player. Even if a rail is at the minimum possible health while still being operational, ten <5 minute runs on Sechura would be sufficient for a single person to fully repair it.

 

Second, the fact of solar rails being attacked is intrinsic in the logic of clans and alliances like Eclipse initiating attacks on Dark Sector nodes, not in the economics of creating and deploying solar rails or the mechanics of the DS themselves. Since almost every node began free and now almost none are, at some point each 0% node was attacked and assimilated by a group that subsequently charged tax to the general public to access what was previously a public good, free and universally accessible. Given the means through which these new incumbents came to assume control over these nodes, i.e. attacking a free rail and replacing it with their own, they had good reason to be averse to the possibility that the same would happen to them. But the upshot is that clans and alliances like Eclipse that are said to need tax revenue to maintain their rail system are the simultaneous perpetrators and victims of their own violence. Collectively, if they did not attack each other's rails, they would not need to defend their own rails, and thus taxing the general public is a form of passing on the burden of their own mutual aggression to people who have no involvement or, presumably, interest in it.

 

Given Eclipse's actions at present at Sechura, this is topical in the extreme. Eclipse has nothing to defend here; it is attempting to take Sechura because that is the logic of expansion of one's borders. If it succeeds in taking it over, it will charge all users a quarter of their earnings for a service which, until their intervention there, had been completely free, and justify it by saying that it needs to do so in order to continue providing that service. But as the previous discussion has demonstrated, and as the empirical example of other clans who have continued to provide free access despite being constantly attacked has shown, this is nothing more than a red herring.

 

To the extent that clans and alliances themselves both create the problem of insecurity in accessing Dark Sectors and offer people the solution to those problems, they are behaving in the same way as organized crime syndicates who specialize in racketeering or, indeed, modern and historical states.

[Verazix]

So... ~1h (20x 3 min) for 200k credits is "far longer" than 10 5-Wave Defense or 10 5min Survival?

 

Riiiiiiight.

 

I've seen you post a lot, surely you're more intelligent than this and you saw the underlying motive behind my post, and didn't just pick it apart (again) without comprehending it.  You're someone I've normally respected on these forums (even when you're trolling).

 

Hint: I can farm up 10 survivals/defenses right now if I want, I can't do 10 10-20k battle pays right now on demand, thus I have to wait on them to show up.  While "time played" might be less, "time wasted waited" is far higher.

[LadyScootaloo]

*shrugs* A lot of people are misguided.

 

So you agree to being hypocritical, greedy, AND self-centered.

 

Right.

 

And here you are, crying out against Eclipse for being greedy when you're full of greed yourself. Pot, meet kettle.

Hypocritical, not at the moment. I support my own. Eclipse is putting a dent in our income.

A leader works for her clan. A good one anyways. That's my selfishness here.

I'm a veteran who gets showered with freebies. I don't need it myself. =/

You're actually quite good at gathering potential enemies. xD

[MegaSnail]

It's really convenient that it also happens to be really the -only- node that people play.

You work at Walmart. You get paid. You buy food at Walmart. You can get a discount. The Discount is there because you work there. 

 

You are in Eclipse. You are given two options, play in taxed missions or play in one non- tax missions. There is also a choice to play a 60% tax mission. Some go to non-tax. Some people like Eclipse. The people help Eclipse by doing the 60% tax. 

 

Such wow. So amaze. 

[Morcant]

More Tax = More Battlepay.

 

More tax = more tax. Battle pay changes at Eclipse's whim. High at the beginning, then meager, then none as they grow more and more secure in victory. If you miss the first 20 minutes of a conflict, you get table scraps if anything at all.

 

Their tax remains high regardless of circumstance, and as we see now, it's simply being used to fuel expansion while they play victim and cite maintenance costs to people who don't know better.

 

Don't believe their lies.

[Xylia]

 

I've seen you post a lot, surely you're more intelligent than this and you saw the underlying motive behind my post, and didn't just pick it apart (again) without comprehending it.  You're someone I've normally respected on these forums (even when you're trolling).

 

Hint: I can farm up 10 survivals/defenses right now if I want, I can't do 10 10-20k battle pays right now on demand, thus I have to wait on them to show up.  While "time played" might be less, "time wasted waited" is far higher.

 

Me? Trolling? *blinks* If I am, I never really attempted to troll on purpose. Comes naturally, perhaps.

 

But, okay, I'll go back over it again.... and what I see, is...

 

1). You're still getting 15-17k per Dark Sector Mission. That's still very good pay. Yeah, I know, 21k is better, but as I've said many times already, don't you think they ought to get Something to help rail upkeep and pay out Battlepays.

 

2). That "200k over 50 missions" you're "losing" can easily be made back if you do 20 Battlepay missions. Okay, sure, the Battlepay Missions are not always up, sure. But when they are, you can profit heavily in a short amount of time.

 

I'm really not sure how else to really explain it. Not to mention, I still can't help but to think it is ridiculously greedy to expect people to give you solar rail access for free. That's just... wow.

 

So 20-25% is a little high, sure. 10% would be awesome. But then, again, you're still getting more money than a Void 1 mission even with the 25% tax.

[Xylia]

You're actually quite good at gathering potential enemies. xD

 

"Potential Enemies"?

 

Before I say anything else, I'll make it clear I am not in Eclipse. I'm in some Ghost Clan that isn't even in an Alliance. What sort of "Enemies" are you saying I'm making?

 

I play solo most of the time, and if I'm not playing solo, then I'm playing with my friends.

 

And if you're going to brand me an "enemy" because I don't support the idea of 0% taxes, then eh... that's your prerogative, I guess. Whatever floats your boat. etc etc yadda yadda.

[LadyScootaloo]

Again. All your arguments require that casuals get the short end of the stick should Eclipse come to hold Sechura.