Update 7.7 Hot-Fixes

[Namacyst]

Incoming Hornet Strike and Point Blank nerfs :D

I kid.

Though that might be more balanced than it seems.

Pistols have 210-ish clip.

Rifles have 500-ish.

If I'm doing the calculations right, and I probably am not, AKBoltos would do 80 damage with +220%.

While Boltor would do 37.8 with +110% (let's say 37).

So with 500 bullets, a boltor can do 18500 damage.

Whereas an AKBolto can do 16800 damage.

Without other mods, a weaker rifle actually edges out just a tad.

But...pistols getting 100%+ multishot is what breaks this. Because that 16800 gets doubled to 33600, guaranteed. Rifles only go up 60% chance of pulling off a second shot. I'm not sure how to calculate in chance values, so I simply added another 60% damage in its place, so that brings Boltor up to 29600. Add that onto the AKBolto base damage being higher therefore doing more damage with elements, that's why they outdamage rifles.

But again, if I calculated this right, if you only consider damage, they're balanced together. Note that I left shotguns out, because I haven't used any and supposedly the hek > all anyway. I can't say anything about the upgrade costs though.

Nice numbers but pointless because you expect a fixed amount of ammo for a mission.

But since you get extra ammo loot on the way or Ammo Boxes in your Gear and normally never drain all of it in a mission shotguns and pistols are better because what counts is DPS and not Damage until out of Ammo.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Namacyst

[[DE]Rebecca]

Hmmm...

All these threads:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/22520-game-got-hard-after-this-mornings-update/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/22749-i-like-the-enemy-buffif-it-was-intented-but/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/22637-i-dont-mind-the-drop-rate-nerf-but-not-mentioning-it-in-the-patch-notes-is-not-cool/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/22550-update-77-hotfix-hidden-changes-multishot-uses-extra-round-on-full-auto-guns/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/22706-so-im-the-only-one-who-doesnt-feel-anything-changed-after-enemies-got-buffed/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/22633-update-77-what-really-happened/

Plus discussion here suggests there are indeed missing details. For this I apologize - it was not intentional!

The office is currently closed and Devs are likely sleeping,, I will get back to everyone tomorrow with some official notes on changes that didn't make the list.

Sorry again, everyone.

[NegimaSonic]

Nice numbers but pointless because you expect a fixed amount of ammo for a mission.

But since you get extra ammo loot on the way or Ammo Boxes in your Gear and normally never drain all of it in a mission shotguns and pistols are better because what counts is DPS and not Damage until out of Ammo.

And that's why I said "if you only consider damage." Because that's what it seems like they balanced it around. I wrote nothing about firerate and provided an example that would already prove pistols can become superior (multishot). Honestly the additional firerate reduction of today definitely didn't help rifles.

Hmmm...

All these threads:

https://forums.warfr...ornings-update/

https://forums.warfr...s-intented-but/

https://forums.warfr...es-is-not-cool/

https://forums.warfr...full-auto-guns/

https://forums.warfr...ies-got-buffed/

https://forums.warfr...eally-happened/

Plus discussion here suggests there are indeed missing details. For this I apologize - it was not intentional!

The office is currently closed and Devs are likely sleeping,, I will get back to everyone tomorrow with some official notes on changes that didn't make the list.

Sorry again, everyone.

Time to drop the pitchforks, have a good rest.

[MJ12]

Well i just soloed that mission in question.. Ceres-Exta to test it with my Banshee.. lvl 30, ~500 shields, ~500 HP, Sentinel which i consider my squishiest Warframe.

Level was no problem, killed Grineer good, shield never dropped.

Boss fight was as usual.. run into the centre, give him hell.. get behind cover when shields drop, loot.

It felt harder than normal but not by much. If you use your brains and cover, keep moving and prioritize targets its not that hard... but if you stand still because you have to aim properly or herp-derp in the open for too long or other reasons typical for people who can't play shooter well.. you die.

Ceres counts towards endgame, high enemy lvl, high difficulty level.. hell.. it's supposed to be hard and the more i read all the whining about stuff like this i just can come up with one conclusion: Many peope are just to unskilled and stupid to play high level Mission. Period.

I don't even think it's the game's fault anymore.. it's the people.

If "many people are just too unskilled and stupid to play high level missions" that means the game is too hard. Difficulty is relative to the playerbase. Content locks which mean most people can't play 'high level missions' (okay so you can't get any of the new Warframes, or Excalibur without paying real cash) means the game is now effectively content-locked unless you pay cash or you're one of the lucky few percent. Also, 500/500 shields/health is not even close to 'squishy'. That's a pretty high number there.

You know what the real problem with the game is? It's condescending elitists like you who think they're so ~skilled~ because they get lucky a few times and demand that everyone else enjoy the exact same things they do. DE, take a good look at the guys you're listening to. They're toxic customers. If you keep listening to people like this, people who are elitists that think the majority of people should be shafted just for their own self-aggrandizement, things won't end well. You clearly want this game to be successful and it's clearly a labor of love, but some people just aren't satisfied with what you're selling.

http://yourbusinesssucks.wordpress.com/2011/11/23/48/

[Gestalt]

Some are suggesting it is one bullet for every element fired, though you have 5 numbers, so perhaps one of those elements (perhaps AP) isn't subject to this multiple bullet thing.

I think thee 55 is the exp number. But I'm guessing you're right that some count and some don't. 35 for the base attack + Serration, 30% of 35 = about 10 for fire, 10 for electricity, 8 for ice (cuz everyone hates ice, even though it's also 30%), and ap is added on top of everything, so doesn't get its own number.

That's my best guess >_<

Just tried it with the Boltor, as it's easier to track the projectiles, and even without a multishot mod I am firing two darts every couple shots.

like the multifire property got "stuck" on the weapon or something.

Part of the "ammo drain" is probably indeed due to the fixed fire rate then. Maybe it's just harder than people think to actually pull off firing a single shot, when you have a fast enough automatic.

Just tried to solo an alert with my lvl 30 banshee and got absolutely destroyed. Used all 4 of my revives within a minute. What the hell did you do, DE?

Great. Soulie got destroyed. May Hayden Tenno have mercy on our souls.

Oh you bet your damn &amp;#&#33; that i agree with you. Scott said on the livestream that DE wants to make the game perfectly balanced for both coop and solo players. And Scott is the guy that makes the things we hate in the first place.

But you have to give something to their rethoric... it actually looks like DE is balancing the game to us, which indeed might be making it too easy for them. Matches need to scale according to how many players there are and up the difficulty accordingly.

They just made enemy levels adjusted to player number, according to some people.

I'm a solo player, and i'm not a "second-class" citizen, and neither are you. We are all equals.

Now, as far as Digital Extremes is concerned, the only "second-class" citizens in here are those who think that there's such distinction in the first place, so i'd watch my tone if i were you.

Ruvio laying down the law.

[MJ12]

They just made enemy levels adjusted to player number, according to some people.

It really doesn't feel like that. It seems like the game is stuck at '&amp;#&#33;-reamingly hard' on anything past Earth.

[Ganwybas]

Hmmm...

All these threads:

https://forums.warfr...ornings-update/

https://forums.warfr...s-intented-but/

https://forums.warfr...es-is-not-cool/

https://forums.warfr...full-auto-guns/

https://forums.warfr...ies-got-buffed/

https://forums.warfr...eally-happened/

Plus discussion here suggests there are indeed missing details. For this I apologize - it was not intentional!

The office is currently closed and Devs are likely sleeping,, I will get back to everyone tomorrow with some official notes on changes that didn't make the list.

Sorry again, everyone.

Thank you for your patience and sensitivity)

It really nice,then Dev and Mod team snow some respect to the community.

[MersennePrime]

It really doesn't feel like that. It seems like the game is stuck at '&amp;#&#33;-reamingly hard' on anything past Earth.

If you're really cautious and inch forward slowly, you can just barely grind through the later levels. It's just too bad redirection and vitality are a must have again.

Edited April 4, 2013 by MersennePrime

[Namacyst]

If "many people are just too unskilled and stupid to play high level missions" that means the game is too hard. Difficulty is relative to the playerbase. Content locks which mean most people can't play 'high level missions' (okay so you can't get any of the new Warframes, or Excalibur without paying real cash) means the game is now effectively content-locked unless you pay cash or you're one of the lucky few percent. Also, 500/500 shields/health is not even close to 'squishy'. That's a pretty high number there.

You know what the real problem with the game is? It's condescending elitists like you who think they're so ~skilled~ because they get lucky a few times and demand that everyone else enjoy the exact same things they do. DE, take a good look at the guys you're listening to. They're toxic customers. If you keep listening to people like this, people who are elitists that think the majority of people should be shafted just for their own self-aggrandizement, things won't end well. You clearly want this game to be successful and it's clearly a labor of love, but some people just aren't satisfied with what you're selling.

http://yourbusinesss.../2011/11/23/48/

Interesting interpretation of my words but sadly far from the truth.

I try to rephrase what i meant:

In a game that is about progression and getting stronger many people just jump into missions without the right equipment level and complain it's too hard.

In a game where shields regenerate and cover is given many people just stand in the middle of the room, face tanking every mob on a Difficulty 5 mission and complain game is too hard.

In a game designed around co-op many people play solo, die, lose all their revives and complain game is too hard.

I could go on... the point is:

I have played over 360 hours, own every Warframe, have all of them and my Weapons maxed and modded with max lvl mods. I "worked" for that stuff. I min-maxed the best possible DPS on weapons, the best Energy management for mods on a Warframe, thought about where to farm, how to beat a boss, learned to dodge, move and stay alive regardless of equipment (first 12 hours after Update 7 release was a blast!) and from my point of view having 500 shield/health on a lvl 30 warframe when you get 300 hp/shield for free since hotfix 7.6 is pretty squishy compared to a 650shields/850 health Saryn with invulnerability buff. I'm not lucky.. i farmed alot and taking cover when being shot at is not skill.. its just common sense.

I'm not a toxic player but if you want to call me that just because i think of the people that are not considered "casual" because they achieved after hours and hours everything worth getting in the game then i can't stop you. In my opinion "Elitists" have the same right to be heard as the "newcomers".

Cheers

[Gestalt]

It really doesn't feel like that. It seems like the game is stuck at '&amp;#&#33;-reamingly hard' on anything past Earth.

You know, I was almost convinced that we never had enemy-level-scaling based on player number until very recently. But then I remember way back, if anyone remember that one time when they put a Jackal in a Pluto ?-alert. Remember everyone had a blast running out of ammo to kill it? I remember vaguely that everyone was saying how a level 58(?) Jackal was so fun to kill, but the one I soloed was only 45ish level.

It was a long time ago.

Edit: found the ?-alert thread: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/6167-alert-pluto-acheron-32-min-left-crazy-jackal-77lvl84-34players-rifle-amp-bring-ammo-boxes/page__hl__jackal

It was a couple months back; pre-Smith0rz era. If you take a fast look, soloing makes the Jackal 56 and 4manning it makes it 84.

So at least for bosses, they've had enemy-level scaling for a while now.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Gestalt

[ikarop]

I'm experiencing many visual glitches after this update. So far I've noticed:

When using Mag''s Crush power, enemies often look stiff or stay in the air. Noticed this on an infestation level.

Melee weapons get stuck and replace the primary weapon model when firing [Rare].

Weapon models don't show properly on the mission select screen [Rare].

Edited April 4, 2013 by ikarop

[Pave]

I like the new SFX for lockers; makes them sound more mechanical instead of "gas-operated".

But man, those one-hit-knockout Grinneer footsoldiers (not strong-ones, the "small ones") are downright annoying...oh hey, magical invisible grenades and shooting though walls even more often. Yay...

Time spam some log-files again...

Edited April 4, 2013 by Pave

[f3llyn]

I'm still kind of baffled they would drop an update and then not stick around the office to see if there were any issues that needed fixing. Because todays update was full of issues not counting the enemy buff.

[Kanaris]

I'm still kind of baffled they would drop an update and then not stick around the office to see if there were any issues that needed fixing. Because todays update was full of issues not counting the enemy buff.

This. Blows my mind.

"Let's make a huge update to the game and then everyone go home and go to bed. We'll run damage control in the morning."

[Flaming_Snake]

This. Blows my mind.

"Let's make a huge update to the game and then everyone go home and go to bed. We'll run damage control in the morning."

They could have been smashed when they did it. Reading always gets more difficult the more you drink.

[fratous]

...

Melee weapons get stuck and replace the primary weapon model when firing [Rare].

this one has been around in the last few updates since update 7 for me, you can easily reproduce it by performing a melee attack and then using an ability straight after. This at least has worked for me in reproducing it, and it is fixed when you use your melee attack again.

[Chaos_Eater]

Great update XD

I have a bug that when i try to put in mods, sometimes the mod screen will be stuck and this happens.

http://imgur.com/wn9DmeL

[Mentosftw]

@seeker

*facepalm*

The elemental damages and armor piercing damage is shown as a separate number as the normal damage.

Different mobs and different regions handle the damage diferently so there's a need to show the different numbers.

[DrakeHyena]

DId anyone of you had in mind what "hot-fix" mean? so clam down a bit pls.

[Namacyst]

Uhm.. "fix" means break stuff now?

[Drev]

I really wish people would stop crying over difficulty. If you have a leveled Warframe with equivalent weapons properly modded for each type and use the correct assortment/loadout for a run with a competent group the game is anything but "too hard". Bottom line here is suck less. This is a huge problem with the "AAA" games that try to appeal to every single person possible instead of fans of certain genres. The end result is generally a watered down piece of crap devoid of any challenge or thought requirement. A huge part of why Warframe is fun for most is the inherent challenge in finding the right balance for your frames and hoping there is a something to put all of that gear you grinded for and crazy space ninja skill learned to use. Balance and proper functionalty of features is the key here right now not nerfing everything to appease the select group of idiots who are just bad and can't learn to read a few patch notes and forum threads to follow along with changes.

There are plenty of problems along the way and a lot of peculiar errors in judgement that DE makes but there is still hope... For now.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Drev

[KShao]

I really wish people would stop crying over difficulty. If you have a leveled Warframe with equivalent weapons properly modded for each type and use the correct assortment/loadout for a run with a competent group the game is anything but "too hard". Bottom line here is suck less. This is a huge problem with the "AAA" games that try to appeal to every single person possible instead of fans of certain genres. A huge part of why Warframe is fun for most is the inherent challenge in finding the right balance for your frames and hoping there is a challenge to put all of that gear you grinded for and crazy space ninja skill learned to use. Balance and proper functionalty of features is the key here right now not nerfing everything to appease the select group of idiots who are just bad and can't learn to read a few patch notes and forum threads to follow along with changes.

Well, I tried to help a friend complete Merrow for Saryn parts. I found the boss could throw instant kill homing smoke bombs at strange angles, and that her missiles were beyond fatal. I also played a mission on Exta for Frost parts, and found 2 rhinos, a mag, and an ash could not handle him. I can't say for anyone besides myself, but I think if they plan on punishing players for being hit, they should tone down the bosses defences.

[Drev]

Well, I tried to help a friend complete Merrow for Saryn parts. I found the boss could throw instant kill homing smoke bombs at strange angles, and that her missiles were beyond fatal. I also played a mission on Exta for Frost parts, and found 2 rhinos, a mag, and an ash could not handle him. I can't say for anyone besides myself, but I think if they plan on punishing players for being hit, they should tone down the bosses defences.

Keep trying... Oh you didn't beat something on the first run? Tough freaking cookies man up and try again. Switch out your weapons, use different mods, change squad formation or maybe face the fact that you just aren't powerful enough yet? Sure there are some inconsistencies or glitches with certain fights and balance is needed but you can overcome it all with the right approach.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Drev

[Notso]

Other than Ced23ric i'm the most active guy on these forums and i don't see a lot of elitism of co-op players towards solo players... But then again i don't frequent General Discussion that much.. just a bunch of non-sense there.

Posts in the translator forums don't count as activity mate [ ;

[Warick70]

Great update XD

I have a bug that when i try to put in mods, sometimes the mod screen will be stuck and this happens.

http://imgur.com/wn9DmeL

Just thought i should say your not alone! My mod screen breaks everytime i try to add the Fast Hands Mod onto my primary weapon and ONLY THAT MOD. It freezes in place and i have to go back out to the main screen, then to armory, then to the mod screen to fix it and the Fast Hands MOd never gets placed onto my gun so it will never reload fast. i have enough room for it, it doesn't glow red showing me i can't have it, it just freezes when i place it...

Edited April 4, 2013 by Warick70