This Has Been Bothering Me For A Little Too Long Now

[Seele]

Magazine is still an appropriate term for it, but for the time being I will concede.

It remains, however, one case against many.

[ReiganCross]

You can only ask for realism in a game that does not call an Ogris Rocket "Rifle Ammo"... So pretty much, your complaint is invalid. Well, it's closer to being irrelevant then invalid, it is a pretty accurate assessment of the situation but i don't think DE gives half a care for that.

 

You understand what i'm getting at, right? That as long as they're calling a Kunai "Pistol Ammo" then it's pretty pointless to complain about them not knowing what exactly a "Pump" is?

[Wolfstorm18]

Yes it does.

 

...Thank you for your contribution..?

 

 

Maybe I misunderstood your post. You were saying there are no weapons with a feeding clip? Like in a mounted machine gun? 

 

The Soma have a kind of clip, but it resembles a magazine. But theres no weapon using belt clips in this game. 

 

It would be a good idea if the devs put some machine gun towers in Phobos, with belts and shields, but unfortunatelly the game direction is now more on ner%&^e dogma than on level design. 

[Seele]

You can only ask for realism in a game that does not call an Ogris Rocket "Rifle Ammo"... So pretty much, your complaint is invalid. Well, it's closer to being irrelevant then invalid, it is a pretty accurate assessment of the situation but i don't think DE gives half a care for that.

 

You understand what i'm getting at, right? That as long as they're calling a Kunai "Pistol Ammo" then it's pretty pointless to complain about them not knowing what exactly a "Pump" is?

I sympathize with both your rebuttal and the devs' needs to make exceptions for the sake of game play... To an extent. Ammo is being overhauled, apparently, so hopefully that system improves in the near future. We have already seen sniper pickups renamed to "Bow Ammo", which is kind of funny but its indication that they do strive to some form of correctness.

But it can only be excused for so long. I'll keep saying it, I will do the hard part for then if I am asked, and I will ask nothing in return. Being that this is a beta, and I am a beta tester, this is one deficiency I've identified as needing corrective action.

[MechaTails]

Please reread the OP or at least the last paragraph.

Apathy is also no excuse for ignorance, that will lead to things I can't even predict.

It is what it is, call it what it is.

 

Naaaaaaahhh lol

 

There's no problem, nothing needs to be changed, and if something is changed there's no benefit to it. I guess changing names/labels would make some sticklers happy, so that's a plus maybe, though it's more like a "meh".

 

Also rofl @ using this game to generate "respect for guns", whatever that means. There are games specifically designed for training people to use weapons and learn proper terminology, Warframe has no reason to do that.

 

Now let's end this sillyness and get back to stabbing Grineer in the $&*^, with as little respect for everything as possible.

[Seele]

Naaaaaaahhh lol

 

There's no problem, nothing needs to be changed, and if something is changed there's no benefit to it. I guess changing names/labels would make some sticklers happy, so that's a plus maybe, though it's more like a "meh".

 

Also rofl @ using this game to generate "respect for guns", whatever that means. There are games specifically designed for training people to use weapons and learn proper terminology, Warframe has no reason to do that.

 

Now let's end this sillyness and get back to stabbing Grineer in the $&*^, with as little respect for everything as possible.

This is exactly what I mean.

 

If you have nothing constructive to offer please leave, I've had to deal with one troll already. If you did actually read the thread you'd see I've already offered counterarguments to every point you've attempted to make here, before you poised them. If you did and still felt the need to post this then you just aren't picking up what I'm putting down and I'm sorry.

 

I did not create this thread to rally support from other players. I knew full well most people would be apathetic towards the cause. Abiding incorrect diction is a contributing factor to the degradation of language, which sounds extreme, but perhaps I just see more severity in this issue than most.

Which is why I have offered to do all the work and ensure that no player is offended by it. I will not ask that it get an independent hotfix or patch notes. I know it bothers people besides myself and even if it bothered no one it all it's still incorrect.

Edited May 23, 2014 by Seele

[MechaTails]

Naaaaaaaaah, you're overreacting to a non-issue, that's not trolling, that's the troof.

 

And that's the bottom line. B)

[MvMArcher]

While it might be a non-issue, this is still something that bugs some people.

 

As Seele already said "to whose benefit is it to leave it all incorrect?" and since he offered to do all the work I see no problem in this being done.

Hell if this was done, we might even see more changes to other ingame flavor text.

[taiiat]

so i'll just ignore everything said up until this point since it's all been S#&$ slinging - and focus on the more important issue that's related to this.

 

 

consistency. 

 

choose one. call everything a Clip, call everything a Magazine, call everything 'shots', but call everything the same. Magazine or 'shots' is more neutral, so it's probably a better choice.

 

but make it all consistent. Mods, tooltips, stats, Et Cetera - should all refer to Ammunition contained before requiring Reload the same way. use the same term. whatever that term may be.

 

mixing them is a fast track to confusion. Warframe has little enough consistency as it is, we should try to increase it whenever possible, rather than ignore it.

[ThePredicament]

Dude, as an owner of multiple guns of various designs, I have learned to let the terminology in games go. Proper terminology has been thrown out the window a very long time ago and although it's cringe worthy to hear someone at the gun store/range or just general gun talk use the wrong words, this will never ever change in games.

 

I do wonder why mag/magazine never really caught on in games, especially when games like Fallout and counterstrike used the right term. It's quite possible that back then, devs were a bunch of nerdy guys who loved guns, whereas now, people from all sorts of backgrounds are in the business.

[CaptainJohnson]

I agree on the topic of consistency as stated above- my personal biggest gripe is between "poison" and "toxin"- but claiming that this is the sort of issue that's leading towards the "degradation of our language" is extremely overdramatic. Ultimately, these differences are only technical jargon that players don't care about nor pay attention to, so it's not as if they "learn the wrong way" and are then ignorant for life. To most players, they're just guns that go 'pew pew' or 'bang bang'. Technical jargon, which is really what this is, will always be a part of our language that most people are unaware of and that's okay because there is far too many words out there to ever know the precise definitions of. Our language is becoming more complex, while the utility of many of these words will be diminished because a smaller portion of the population really needs to know them for any reason whatsoever.

 

You're asking that other players provide you a solid reason why it should remain incorrect, while it's obvious that the burden of reasoning is on you to say why they should change it. If what you're saying is unconvincing to others, that doesn't change the fact that it's on you to say why they should change it, since you're the one who's bringing it up in the first place. Stop asking people to say why it should be left incorrect and instead assert why you believe it shouldn't.

 

Regardless of the fact that you're volunteering to do it (which is an annoying proposition, frankly, despite its good intentions), it would still take time for DE to consider, for them to make sure you're a credible source, to allow you the permissions to change things or to have direct contact with the developers in charge of changing the terminology, making sure that these changes don't adversely affect something in-game, etc. etc. etc. You're asking the developers to do more work than you seem to understand and there is no way for you to do "all the work," even if you wish you could. You might as well just bring up the issue, describe why they should change the terminology and exactly what to change, and then be done with it. You're not going to be the one to do the work even if they did decide to take your advice.

[Arblarg]

-A bunch of words about effort-

So there is this function in most programs called replace, commonly ctrl + h, find X replace with Y.

 

1. Open item descriptions file

2. Ctrl + H

3. Find 'clip'

4. Replace with 'Mag/Magazine'

5. Replace all

6. ctrl + s

 

Done. While it absolutely does not need to be correct, why can it just not be? Simple thing, simple request.

[Seele]

-snip-

While I don't agree with everything you've stated I thank you for presenting your opinion professionally.

 

I suppose you are correct that, to use your words, the burden of reasoning is on me. I did not for a moment consider true definition to not be a worthwhile testament to my case. It's something I've come to expect and hold to standard and maybe nobody else really cares so much. But again, I don't consider apathy an excuse for ignorance. Language is something of which I am, perhaps strangely, passionate, and I concur that my likening to a 1984-esque scenario is extreme, but it's difficult to leverage support without demonstrating the worst-case scenario, especially in such a subject as this which I knew full-well and stated in my original message would be met by many with indifference, if not dissonance.

 

I also grant you that I am incapable of truly doing all the work, but that is not what I advertised, and if the message was conveyed incorrectly I apologize. Should Digital Extremes express interest in correcting their incorrect terminology, I would be willing to compile a comprehensive list of all such incorrect terminology for their review and execution, or at the very least assist in such, which I feel is within my duties as a beta tester.

Edited May 29, 2014 by Seele

[CaptainJohnson]

So there is this function in most programs called replace, commonly ctrl + h, find X replace with Y.

 

1. Open item descriptions file

2. Ctrl + H

3. Find 'clip'

4. Replace with 'Mag/Magazine'

5. Replace all

6. ctrl + s

 

Done. While it absolutely does not need to be correct, why can it just not be? Simple thing, simple request.

 

You didn't read what I mentioned at all did you? Most of it wasn't even about coding in the first place, because that's not where most of the issue lies (or at least, I assume, I'm not exactly a good programmer). I'm not saying it's the biggest hassle in the world, but it's also not as simple as going into a wiki page and editing the text.

 

Also, you're completely missing the context. I was referring to Seele's proposition that he would do the work, when there's a lot more that goes into it than he implied. In the same paragraph I suggested that he just drop the proposal to do the work and instead just make the case for a change, which by my own admission is a "simple request." I think it was obvious that I wasn't trying to make an excuse about effort, so don't treat me like a child who's just learning what "ctrl + c" and "ctrl + v" are.

 

 

Language is something of which I am, perhaps strangely, passionate, and I concur that my likening to a 1984-esque scenario is extreme, but it's difficult to leverage support without demonstrating the worst-case scenario, especially in such a subject as this which I knew full-well and stated in my original message would be met by many with indifference, if not dissonance.

 

It's generally not a good idea to hyperbolize something when you're trying to make a simple complaint to DE, especially when you said that you aren't here to rally support anyhow. It just makes people think that you actually mean it and it makes it harder to take you seriously, y'know? But that's my own view on rhetoric so take it with a grain of salt.

 

If players take your request with indifference then that has more to do with the nature of the request itself. I understand that it can be frustrating when other players don't share your sense of urgency though, I really do. But you have to accept that it may not be as big of an issue as you feel like it is. (When will DE change the picture for the Warframe version of Steel Fiber? Iron Skin doesn't scale with armor, dammit!)

[BloodArmoredApostle]

I mean I get your suggestion here. But honestly, who really cares about some small technicalities? 

[__Kanade__]

Seele, on 21 May 2014 - 2:06 PM, said:

Inexperience is no excuse for ignorance in this day of digital media in which the vast majority of human knowledge is contained on every desk, in every pocket.

 

If you feel there is no need for the game's terminology to be accurate, please instead provide some reasons why it should remain inaccurate.

Cause this is a Sci-fi game, everything in it is a fantasy, the devs can do w/e they want to the game, they're not restricted to 'realism'. Fantasy allows for more creativity, your making a big deal out of something as trivial as 'clips' and 'magazines'.

 

Who cares really.

 

It doesn't bother me at all that the weapons in Warframe refer to their ammo as 'clips' instead of 'magazine'. I only care about whether or not the weapon is doing it's job.

 

And it wouldn't bother me either if they changed the name of the ammo to 'magazines' instead of 'clips'. It's not going to impact the game at all and is not going to change the game at all.

Edited May 29, 2014 by __Kanade__

[Seele]

If they're adamant in remaining erroneous they should at least be consistently wrong. Either it's always a clip or it's always a magazine. If you care so little why bother to tell me?