Does De Not Get That We Only Fight Multistage Bosses 'once'?

[notionphil]

Half of that livestream was about new multistage bosses (and the other half about really cool sounding enemies that will instantly die when we press 4).

 

Unless its on a rare-drop node, many players only fight a boss until we farm its part. That might be 4 or 5 times, in a quick row hopefully.

 

There's literally no reason to fight the complex multistage bosses multiple times, and since the most complex, time-intensive ones are locked behind RNG key mechanisms (hek, lephantis), its not even an option to.

 

Why is the Enemy/AI design team so wrapped up in RNG gated, multistage bosses we spend like .5% of our time fighting?

 

-Either make a reason to fight them again (IE: make them all drop rares)

-Remove RNG walls in front of the multistage bosses (once you've unlocked them)

-or spend waaay less time on them and more on the enemies

 

Who is "we?" A quick snapshot of where players prefer to play: 84% not in assassination missions.

 

EDIT - clarified...referring to the massive setpiece boss battles behind RNG keys, not ruk etc. Also edited abt rare drop nodes farming.

Edited June 6, 2014 by notionphil

[NightBeats]

So you didn't see all the new regular enemy concepts then? Alrighty.

[Frostosti]

on jupiter ive killed that boss a million times, thanks to 100% credit tax of eclipse and a lack of neural sensors in my inventory.

[Aver]

when i first started playing i was on loki and had the such crappy gear but i was having fun, i would spend all day doing jackal because it was fun as all hell for me, hide behind pillars and shoot out its legs, avoid the bombs and wait until someone else had it distracted so you could always do a boss because its fun... that was my reason anyway, i think ive killed jackal more than all of my friends have combined, i didnt even want rhino.

[MrJxt]

Who's 'we'?

 

I fight Salad V for fun.

[OniDarkClown]

We?  whats with the We?

 

Don't Lump me in with the rest of you Martians.

[Egg_Chen]

Agreed, the only thing giving me solace over the stupidity of adding that stupid fan concept is the fact that I will probably never fight him.

 

I used to run bosses for rare mats, but survival is the way to go for that now (it is more fun and I get some Void keys as well).

I cannot remember the last time the Stalker came after me, I should get a Tenno targeting me for not killing any bosses.

[notionphil]

So you didn't see all the new regular enemy concepts then? Alrighty.

 

(and the other half about really cool sounding enemies that will instantly die when we press 4).

 

Couldn't be bothered to read the second half of that sentence huh

[ArmyUnit]

I fight Ruk and Alad V on a semi-often basis.

 

I fully disagree that working on new bosses is a wast of time. Most of them are a very nice change of pace to fight, especially in solo.

Also, only two of the bosses are behind RNG walls, not "most of them".

[SuperStarSlayerSeyfert]

There are only 2 Bosses locked behind RNG and Lephantis barely counts because its more of a grind to get the coordinates.

 

And most people fight bosses more than 5 times depending on the boss. Ex. Ruk is fought multiple times because he is the easiest to farm for orokin cells/ Alad for Sensors/ etc.

Edited June 6, 2014 by ToastedFrenchToast

[Morec0]

I'd fight Hek more often if he was easier to get to - same with Lephantis. The updates to the other bosses will make them more fun and more people like me will run them.

 

I look forward to it.

[notionphil]

I fight Ruk and Alad V on a semi-often basis.

 

I fully disagree that working on new bosses is a wast of time. Most of them are a very nice change of pace to fight, especially in solo.

Also, only two of the bosses are behind RNG walls, not "most of them".

 

True. The two most complex bosses are behind RNG walls. Will edit.

[Zeromanicus]

on jupiter ive killed that boss a million times, thanks to 100% credit tax of eclipse and a lack of neural sensors in my inventory.

 

You'd get more neural sensors from the dark sector node. The credit tax won't affect the resources and you'll get a pittance amount of credits from Alad V.

 

 

Bosses are fun, but it would be cool if they more rountinely dropped rare mods and resources to give us a reason to play them. Unfortunately, thats not going to happen with bosses behind large grindwalls.

Edited June 6, 2014 by Zeromanicus

[trst]

I have no idea what you're referring to. I have spent a LOT of time killing bosses mostly to help out newer players who are struggling with them.

 

I'm glad that they're putting more work in to the bosses as they're (personally) the best mission experiences the game has to offer.

 

Also, Lephantis.

[tahrox]

I actually really like the Hyenas. I hope they make similar regular enemies.

[Sunder]

I think what he's looking for is more engaging, unique boss fights. The new J3 Golem boss fight will have those tentacle things that pull people in and spit them out elsewhere on the map. So that should bring some change to what we're used to.

 

 

Got me thinking though...

 

Boss wide levels

 

Split the Tenno up. All of them. Unleash the boss in the level and have it roam around looking for us.

Via radar you only see the blue lotus symbol for a team mate so you'll have no idea if you're heading to the right person or not

Imagine the chase when you're unprepared for a boss that could possibly vary in it's defense/immunities. Running to allies so you don't die. Them fighting their way through lesser mobs to reach you. Find a room big enough and hold him off there till everyone shows up.

- - -

 

It's just one idea but variable boss fights like this, that really stand out would definitely bring me back to fight them again after farming them for parts.

Aside from getting the Stalkers attention that is.

- - -

Also one thing that'd be pretty cool in my own opinion...have them bother us through out the planet.

Let them insult us, send in additional units, be the reason the ship's cooling system malfunctioned or the reason it's under attack (They're firing on their own vessel in efforts to kill you), have them set up a self destruct sequence when we accomplish our mission. Little things that just make us want to exact revenge upon them.

- - -

 

And of course...scaling them better is a must.

 

Number of players

Mastery Rank

Number of weapons equipped (Primary, Secondary, Melee)

Rank of said weapons

Sentinels

Conclave rating

 

All these things should contribute to the leveling of the boss and enemies.

Hell, could even make it so if you kill a boss enough times, you not only have a chance to get Stalkers attention, but the assassin of that faction

Edited June 6, 2014 by Smac

[Implodingbanana]

hey speak for yourself man i love fighting bosses! there the best. 

[CBAROG]

Well, they seem to think we fight them as much as we fight regular units. To make it come true, they should make bosses invade our missions.

Edited June 6, 2014 by CBAROG

[Casardis]

As long as they give bosses that aren't behind an RNG wall as much attention as Hek, for instance, then it would be fine. The only concern I have is that RNG wall concept they developed, and will probably reused for some future interesting bosses, even though the bosses in the system should be just as interesting to fight.

 

Also, although the word "we" is used very loosely here, I'm pretty sure people would be lying if they said the majority of the community doesn't farm bosses for the sole purpose of collecting the mats. In that sense, don't take "we" too personally and just think of "the majority," which is practically undeniable at this point.

Edited June 6, 2014 by Casardis

[Methanoid]

bosses really are a strange thing, they apparantly want them revamped, yet unless you want a neural sensor or orokin cell, thats probably the only 2 bosses that get repeated, and not for the challenge of the bossfight but because your more likely to get that rare resource you want quickly and easily.

 

if theres seriously that much work being done to revamp bosses there really should be some well deserved reason why someone would want to go back once that boss has been cleared once while/if your busy clearing the starmap.

 

otherwise its a lot of work for something the older players wont even bother looking at, even now the only boss i ever bother with is ruk and thats just to get ocells not for the ?challenge? of facing ruk.

[CaptainJohnson]

Honestly, this is something that's the result of the blended style of game Warframe is. Bosses are a necessary part of the game that are intended to make it worth it for players to go through the star chart. There's issues with this, of course, but bosses are supposed to be a relief from the monotony of the mission types, which all tend to be variations of each other. Those mission types should be tweaked, but it's impractical to expect those missions- Survival, Capture, Exterminate, Defense, etc.- to ever be as unique as something like a boss fight. Even if most players prefer those other types as their favorite, Assassination missions are a crucial spice that adds to the game overall.

 

Another way to look at the chart you've provided is that while only 16% of the players prefer Assassination as their favorite mission type, it's also the second-highest rated mission type among them. People are going to have different preferences, but I don't think it's unfair to pander some to the Assassination crowd.

 

While I agree that regular enemies may be more important overall, it's a little silly to expect them not to die by pressing 4 on half your warframes. That's another issue entirely and has more to do with enemy scaling and end-game content, which is an entirely different discussion that the forums have rehashed to hell and back so many times that it's hard to tell where they even started on it.

 

On the note of Lephantis and Hek, Lephantis is hardly "locked behind an RNG wall." All you have to do is play the game at all for those first coordinates, then play a couple Derelict missions and bam, you have a Lephantis key. I don't think that's too much to ask for, especially when Lephantis is supposed to be one of the later-game bosses, and gives you more of a reason to play a couple Derelict missions (and heck, you can use ODD for experience or ODE for Vault runs while you're at it).

 

There's more credibility towards Hek, because his keys are a pain in the arse to forge and the rewards for fighting him aren't really worth it after you've got the Hydroid parts, even if he's a fun boss battle. While I hope they put him back on the regular star chart soon, I also understand why DE put him behind a locked RNG wall for the moment. If they wanted to give players some reason to buy Hydroid with plat (aka: actually able to support the game's development) they needed to make it difficult to obtain Hydroid, at least to begin with. I'm not a huge fan of that myself but I also understand that they do need money to continue making the game and I really don't think locking a boss behind an RNG wall for a little while is the worst thing they could have done-- I just hope they put him back on the star chart soon.

[notionphil]

While I agree that regular enemies may be more important overall, it's a little silly to expect them not to die by pressing 4 on half your warframes.

 

Honestly, I stopped reading right there.

 

You seem like a nice guy and all, but no, it's not silly to expect that an ability that I can use 15 times in a row won't wipe the entire screen in almost all of the game's content.

[Methanoid]

surprise mini bosses that can randomly appear and start wreaking havoc would probably suit us more than the static "visit once" bosses we currently have.

 

combined MR of the team could increase the chance of a spawn or something.

Edited June 6, 2014 by Methanoid

[vyktorkun]

it's really not the fact that "the bosses aren't fun to play"

but more along the lines "i have all the frame parts from this boss, and since his drop chances are the same as normal grunts i'm gonna go do other levels"

 

i do like bosses, they can be kinda fun to fight, when you don't know what his weak spot is, annoying, but fun

[Innocent_Flower]

Notionphil once again the shining example of the comunity 

 

 

Oh, but I don't realy like survival that much anymore. Defence is where it's at. I can quit anytime.