Devstream 30: An Unexpectedly Large Blow To My Hopes For The Game

[KvotheTheArcane1]

WAT? I don't understand what you want to say.

Ignore him, he's trying to sound clever and say (long windedly, and indirectly) that we should stop criticizing de because none of us have a job there.

Edited June 17, 2014 by KvotheTheArcane1

[CBAROG]

OK. What does "wearing the corpse of help like some deranged hat" even mean?

[Renegade343]

I already said what i wanted to say. just not in what you quoted. I just sometimes respond even when I'd rather not. A feeling that I'm sure I'm not alone in.

I can respond to you: 

 

We are not envious of DE's achievement and resent it. We are just placing suggestions and cooperating with DE to work towards a goal: A fun game where everyone will truly enjoy. 

Edited June 17, 2014 by Renegade343

[HurpadurpusRex]

I can respond to you: 

 

We are not envious of DE's achievement and resent it. We are just placing suggestions and cooperate with DE to work towards a goal: A fun game where everyone will truly enjoy. 

at a cursory glance in your case, I believe you. And like the methods of your posting.

Edited June 17, 2014 by HurpadurpusRex

[CBAROG]

at a cursory glance in your case, I believe you. And like the methods of your posting.

Do you use such formal speech even in bed? English is not my first language so it's hard to understand you.

[notlamprey]

at a cursory glance in your case, I believe you. And like the methods of your posting.

 

I'll have what he's having.

 

Has the issue of certain Drones not having melee hitboxes been dealt with yet? It borders on the absurd that this problem would exist in the first place.

[Beladric]

I'll have what he's having.

 

Has the issue of certain Drones not having melee hitboxes been dealt with yet? It borders on the absurd that this problem would exist in the first place.

 

In fairness, it might be low on the list of concerns, though at the same time, it can't take more then maybe a day to give everything at least a redundant just in case hit box if all else fails. Hit boxes are easy to make, but hard to get just right, but when it comes to drones, I doubt accuracy is considered a issue. Heck, their current hit-box, assuming they have one and its not some sort of collision trigger, would do.

[Aggh]

*But only the right kind of damage, which you can't actually predict. Just cover all of your bases. 

 

 

Or just use something with a lot of slash damage and a decent status chance.  If you're going to say that it's too much guess work or there aren't enough options for dealing with prosecutors, at least list off all the ways of dealing with them.

 

Enemies that simply deal poison damage that bypasses shields don't do anything more than make players hope they are Rhino, have invisibility, or that there is a healer on their team.

 

This I'll +1.  The prototype juggernaut made me lol when it just instantly destroyed the guy as he was show casing it.

Edited June 17, 2014 by Aggh

[Azamagon]

1. I disagree. The first boss example I gave has literally one strategy (the purpose of the example was showing how to do a single-strategy boss well,) while the second boss has easily three or four viable strategies discounting the more outlandish methods and the "exploit" strategy. (The example was for showing that bosses didn't have to be designed in a way that catered to every different strategy, just that multiple strategies should be possible.) The point here is that it's perfectly fine for certain strategies to be substantially more difficult than others, provided they are available. 

 

2. Shield-bypassing has existed since long before Damage 2.0; it was just a lot less prevalent. I wouldn't mind the shield bypassing so much if it was avoidable. Toxic Ancients are okay since all you need to do is stay far enough away, but Venemous Eximi and random bullet bleed is not cool. In exchange for making it avoidable, the shield-bypassing damage could be made more powerful. In other words, more punishing of player screw-ups rather than punishing at random. 

 

For example, Toxin damage has no effect for 1.5 or 2 seconds, but once it procs the player takes more damage over time. This would accomplish two things: 

 

1. Toxic Ancients would still be very dangerous at melee ranges, but players wouldn't be completely unable to melee them without taking health damage. They would still be forced to resort to hit-and-run tactics which are not particularly practical against the Infested, leaving them at a decisive disadvantage in comparison to firearm-wielding compatriots. 

 

2. It would pre-emptively "fix" every single one of the toxic enemies they showed in the most recent livestream. They would no longer be infuriating and unfair because of their ability to rapidly saturate players with poison, just dangerous. This effect would also need to be applied to the player's toxin damage, making it less decisively overpowered against the Corpus. I don't think we should be able to completely bypass an entire Faction's main line of defense. 

 

3. I can see where you're coming from (and where I think ElZilcho before you was coming from, too,) but you're not going to win me over with arguments from realism. As I mentioned with the whole "not every strategy needs to be equal" thing from the example bosses, it should of course be much easier to simply use an automatic hitscan gun on an airborne Vay Hek. However, there is no reason that I, as an awesome space-ninja warrior-deity, should be forbidden from parkouring up the jungle walls or a nearby tree and jumping onto Hek's hovercarriage to bash his face in... aside from the fact that it simply takes less work to leave it as-is. 

 

For example... let's say players strike Hek 3 or 4 times with aerial slide-attacks while he is airborne to destabilize one of his thruster engines. This causes him to careen out of control and crash into the environment. The player then has a few vital seconds to get to wherever Hek crashes, and beat him up in melee a little bit while his engines come back online. If you've tried using melee on other aerial enemies you should know that this is no easy task, especially for Hek who moves erratically and has an energy disruption attack. It wouldn't even take much work on the part of the devs to implement. 

 

This is not about "I want to play one certain way, so bend over backwards to cater to my every whim." This is "If I need to kill this boss some random number of times in order to knock specific loot out of it, I'd rather not have to do it the same exact way every single time." Boss strategy variety carries a number of other benefits with it as well. I tried running Sargas Ruk with a Viral Soma for the first time a few days ago, and *insert inappropriate expletive here* was it boring. The fight took all of 30 seconds, with most of that time spent waiting for his weak points to open up. 

 

4. Boss durability would be better-implemented by reducing the player's ability to deal horrendous amounts of damage obscenely quickly. This is especially important because DE seems to like percent-scaling so much. The higher we drive the numbers, the more drastic the differences between modded and unmodded gear are going to be. A boss that is balanced to be durable against a maxed-Serration Ogris is going to be ridiculously powerful against anything less, and if the boss isn't balanced to be durable against a maxed-Serration Ogris it's going to be fragile to a trivial extent against most "end-game" weapons. 

 

What I'd really like to see is DE scrap percentage scaling and implement flat bonuses to both players and enemies. I think this would be a lot easier to balance, and it would narrow the gaps between low-tier, mid-tier, and high-tier weapons to a more reasonable rendition. It would also make scaling bosses to player level a lot easier, and the modding system a lot less confounding to new players. No more wondering about how percentages stack up, etc. All of a sudden, things like Concussion Rounds or Jagged Edge would no longer be useless on weapons with low or non-existent physical damage stats, etc. 

 

5. Lotus analysis of boss tactics and vulnerabilities sounds like it could be fairly interesting, provided it doesn't stray into the realm of game-guide styled "here is how you beat this boss." 

 

6. I agree that crits should not be RNG based. I disagree that status procs should be RNG based. RNG has no real place in true action combat, and I'm sticking to that. 

 

7. Thank you very much for taking the time to read and provide a thoughtful response. I appreciate it. 

This is an interesting debatte and I'd like to give feedback on these points as well:

 

1. I'm with DiabolusUrsus here. I dunno how high priority I'd put on it though. On one hand, diversity is superimportant for the sake of fun, but on the other hand, I'd rather focus on balancing and fixing core mechanics first.

 

2. I actually don't have problems with shieldbypassing damage, but I feel procs in general should be able to be "countered" by ACTION, at least somewhat (and at the very least just for the Warframe players, it's more important for the players to need to interact with the procs, than to change how they work on the computercontrolled enemies). Examples:

* Bleedproc - Deals very little DoT (if any?), if you stand still. Moving, especially if moving fast, and the bleeding gets way worse. Counter? With immobility / slow movement / hiding in place and wait it out

* Heat - Deals heavy DoT like now, but if you roll, a huge part (or all of it?) of the DoT is removed. Counter? By rolling.

* Cold - Slows you down. Moving should keep you more warm, thus, moving reduces the slowing effect. Stand still and you might even be immobilized (aka can't run around, but can turn and still shoot and cast abilities). Counter? By moving around constantly

* Toxic - Is very weak by itself, but stand for a longer time in its source (like, a poisonous pool) and you get a proc which deals a powerful DoT. Counter? By a quick burst of movement away from the source.

* Blast - Knockdown by Blast (or any other knockdown) could be quicker to recover from if you press space while laying down, costing a huge amount of stamina to do so however. Counter? By button input (jump for example) to recover faster.

* Magnetic - Should NOT drain all your energy. The energydrain, if any, could be a more set amount and increased with enemy levels. So a level 10 Disruptor maybe drains 15 energy, but a level 40 Disruptor drains 45 energy. However, it could still scramble the hud and make you unable to cast abilities for the disruption period. So, while disrupted, do ANYTHING ELSE than cast abilities and wait it out. Counter? By using something other than abilities.

* Gas - I dunno... maybe make it like a mix of Toxic and Bleed, sort of? Like, if you stay in the source, the DoT gets progressively worse. However, if you have the effect on you, it also is worse if you keep moving around (as you let the Gas take more effect by breathing more when moving, rather than staying still and coughing). Counter? By getting away from the source, then stay as still as possible after. Meh.

* Impact, Puncture, Shock, Radiation, Viral, Corrosive procs I guess are fine and could be waited out by simply waiting?

 

3. This kinda ties into point 1, so I'm still with Diabolus here. Something I'd like to point out is that yes, realism (to a certain point) is important. Even in a game about spaceninjamagicians. Consistency and logic you know. Then there is suspension of disbelief, like, the fact that we can teleport and such. Gameplay is more important than realism, but realism can't be COMPLETELY disregarded either. So, a healthy mix of gameplay and logic is always nice. Too much of either and the game can get dull very easily.

Which is why I like Diabolus' opinion here. Realism says, a machinegun is better for a flying, twitchy boss, of course. So obviously that's gonna be effective. But gameplay invites you with the idea "Why not be able to melee him, but at least with effort?". Once again, that's a healthy balance and a good compromise.

 

4. This is a problem with overall balance, NOT with percentual scaling. You say that you think If we had flat scaling, the game would be easier to balance... You couldn't be further away from the truth. That would make it FAR harder to balance as it is far less predictable. Percentual scaling is healthy and more mathematically predictable and calculatable... IF YOU KNOW HOW MATHS WORK! Saying percentual scaling is less balanceable is very, VERY wrong. In fact, it's one of the few things DE have done right!

 

The REAL problem is not about the percentual scaling, it is that the BASIC balancing of the game is horrendous. Nothing else. Damagemods etc are too powerful numerically etc etc, the problems aren't actually bigger than that!

You say stuff like Jagged Edge (and similar P/S/I mods) would be better using flat scaling. Not necessarily true. They could be vastly improved, if they just scaled from TOTAL physical damage, similar to how elements work. Guess why Accelerated Blast on Shotguns was so good before? That's right, because it was "bugged" and worked like how elemental mods did!

 

5. Agreed.

 

6. Crits not being RNG would be an AWESOME change, that's for sure. I don't mind status procs being RNG though. They could even take the place of the old crits as "minicrits", on top of the specific ailments they provide. That way, there is a reason to, for example, proc Viral more than once on a target repeatedly in a short timespan (Because, even if you just maybe refresh the debuff, rather than stacking it, it would at least provide with minor minicrits meanwhile!)

[Beladric]

-snip-

 

Point 2, I'm not in agreement with 100%, and I have to admit the main reason for it is the design philosophy behind Mag. She doesn't have a very good health pool to begin with, and is presented as a viable starter frame on a planet where damn near everything has a chance to proc slash, which bypasses her shields. While I think having certain attacks bypass shields is okay, so long as they are appropriately counterable, I do not believe its fine for grunts to be able to do so with impunity, since that renders a frame rather dangerously untanky. Loki can turn invisible, and is presented as a pro choice anyway (though I really think Volt needs to take his place back as a starter frame, Loki is a really newb unfriendly choice).

 

That said, I'm fine with the changes you'd make to procs, I'm just of the opinion that if shields are so overwhelmingly powerful, DE, then rather then coming up with ways to ignore them (like introducing a rather disgusting number of toxic procs at once. I don't think its coincidence most of the new units can deal toxic damage), you should just make shields weaker. Mag kinda relies on that shield in order not to go down in seconds.

 

This requires more consideration then I've actually given it, admittedly, so now I'll defer to a better formed opinion.

[se05239]

Have DE read this thread yet? Its full of good points.

[Tyranness]

The point of feedback is they do, though whether or not they can or will do anything based off the suggestions, Iunno. But alot of these are amazing.

 

Though one thing that might fix things is overhauling AI, or completely Stealth and Parkour 2.0.

 

Thing is with most stealth games, they design the stealth routes first, then make the map around it. Warframe is something that appears to have not done that, even for the Prison rooms.

[Tarille]

Have DE read this thread yet? Its full of good points.

 

Most likely they have.

 

In fact:

 

They do read feedback, but they don't often respond to said feedback (Whether they've acknowledged it, whether they can or will do something about it etc) which according to the last Livestream is because "They're too busy making the game, to be able to respond to topics on the forums about making the game"

 

Before anyone says "Oh but it only takes a minute to write a post!" - There are things that they aren't allowed to talk about (Because it may or may not be implemented), they have to ensure the posts they make are clear and concise and lots of other factors involved (Such as asking other people about what is being worked on and such, since not every person at DE knows what each team is working on and what is completed/ready/being planned etc) - All this adds to the time it takes to make a post.

 

Not to mention how counter intuitive it can be to getting feedback, as responding to too many threads will result in people either talking directly about the fact they've posted or when giving feedback will feel that because they haven't had a member of DE post in their thread that they've not read it.

 

So... Yeah... While it can be frustrating to not have evidence of DE acknowledging some threads (Such as this one, which concerns many different teams and refers to a wide variety of different aspects of the game and game design), there are reasons why it can be justified.

[DirkDeadeye]

Most likely they have.

 

In fact:

 

They do read feedback, but they don't often respond to said feedback (Whether they've acknowledged it, whether they can or will do something about it etc) which according to the last Livestream is because "They're too busy making the game, to be able to respond to topics on the forums about making the game"

 

Before anyone says "Oh but it only takes a minute to write a post!" - There are things that they aren't allowed to talk about (Because it may or may not be implemented), they have to ensure the posts they make are clear and concise and lots of other factors involved (Such as asking other people about what is being worked on and such, since not every person at DE knows what each team is working on and what is completed/ready/being planned etc) - All this adds to the time it takes to make a post.

 

Not to mention how counter intuitive it can be to getting feedback, as responding to too many threads will result in people either talking directly about the fact they've posted or when giving feedback will feel that because they haven't had a member of DE post in their thread that they've not read it.

 

So... Yeah... While it can be frustrating to not have evidence of DE acknowledging some threads (Such as this one, which concerns many different teams and refers to a wide variety of different aspects of the game and game design), there are reasons why it can be justified.

Community managers draw a salary for that purpose.

[notionphil]

They do read feedback, but they don't often respond to said feedback (Whether they've acknowledged it, whether they can or will do something about it etc) which according to the last Livestream is because "They're too busy making the game, to be able to respond to topics on the forums about making the game"

 

Before anyone says "Oh but it only takes a minute to write a post!" - There are things that they aren't allowed to talk about (Because it may or may not be implemented), they have to ensure the posts they make are clear and concise and lots of other factors involved (Such as asking other people about what is being worked on and such, since not every person at DE knows what each team is working on and what is completed/ready/being planned etc) - All this adds to the time it takes to make a post.

 

Your explanation is correct, however I don't accept that excuse at all.

 

Sure, it's difficult for DE to put together a comprehensive response to this thread. Or to any wide-reaching community dissatisfaction. But that is part of the work of running a global company. What this thread is really saying is:

 

"Where is Warframe going? What is working as intended and what is broken? Bosses? Solo? Melee? Balance? Parkour? Enemy Mechanics? Why do you consider them broken or not? What are your plans to fix them and when?"

 

 

This thread, and many other threads recently are asking for a comprehensive MISSION STATEMENT and ROADMAP from DE. There is no reason why a company cannot provide its customers with a mission statement for its landmark product.

 

If devs that are "too busy making the game to get wrapped up in feedback" would be better suited talking with other departments and the player base to ensure that they are actually improving the game instead of adding more "stuff".

 

TL;DR:

 

Adding more stuff != improving the game

Two-way communication with players to address widespread complaints about the same several issues = improving the game

Edited June 17, 2014 by notionphil

[DiabolusUrsus]

Atlas shrugged is not obscure, and education seems to be what you are concerned about.

 

Your backing up my accusations better than i feel i am able.

I mean what I say directly, so it would seem listening is not generating a favorable result for you.

 

I justify it by none of you being offered a job working for DE. your only shown skill set 18 pages of disappointments, wearing the corpse of help like some deranged hat.

 

So if your attempting to help me by criticizing my criticism in the same fashion that you believe DE finds invaluable I would prefer you didn't and leave it half baked.

 

I did not say that Atlas Shrugged was obscure. I said that it was contextually obscure, which you cannot honestly deny. It is a 1,000+ page book that is far from edge-of-your-seat interesting, and you're quoting from it on a community forum where most people are in the habit of saying "tl;dr." You're quoting from a source that most of your readers are unlikely to have read, so you essentially crippled the effectiveness of your analogy before even writing it. I'm concerned about your education because you seem to believe that quoting from literary texts is somehow an indicator of intelligence, or that it supports your accusations of our incompetence, considering you seem to be completely incapable of backing yourself up on your own. 

 

You justify it by none of us being offered a job? Do you even understand how hiring works? What makes you think DE is pulling in enough of a profit that they can afford to pay larger numbers of employees? Why would they hire us for pay when we're willing to do the work for free? I haven't read up on DE's hiring policies, because frankly, I'm not that interested in working there, but do you think the fact that some community members live in other countries might factor into their ability to be hired at all? That must be an excellent measure of the worth of someone's ideas concerning the game. Have you been offered a job at DE?

 

"Wearing the corpse of help as a deranged hat." Wow. It's very fair and reasonable of you to look at what is ultimately an emotional statement of concern as a definitive portrait of the sort of feedback I provide. /sarcasm. This thread, in its entirety, is expressing dismay at learning that all of the well-intentioned and constructive feedback some of us have been providing faithfully over the past year is not being heard the way we thought it was. Nowhere in my OP did I pull a  James Taggart and attempt to override DE's authority. The culmination of what I had to say was "DE, you need to start making some choices. I think choices a and b are bad ones, but if you're going to insist on going with those please make it clear that you are." If you missed that, you might want to consider the possibility that you are less cultured and sophisticated than you think you are. 

 

So no, I'm really not trying to help you. At all. I'm calling you out on behaving like a jerk because you didn't have the guts to call me incompetent in a manner other people were likely to understand. What upsets me, though, isn't that you've insulted me without actually pointing out the perceived flaws with what I had to say. It's that you've insulted almost every person who has participated in this thread, and attacking people without giving them the chance to defend themselves is the mark of a coward. For that, you have my undying contempt. 

Edited June 17, 2014 by DiabolusUrsus

[Azamagon]

I did not say that Atlas Shrugged was obscure. I said that it was contextually obscure, which you cannot honestly deny. It is a 1,000+ page book that is far from edge-of-your-seat interesting, and you're quoting from it on a community forum where most people are in the habit of saying "tl;dr." You're quoting from a source that most of your readers are unlikely to have read, so you essentially crippled the effectiveness of your analogy before even writing it. I'm concerned about your education because you seem to believe that quoting from literary texts is somehow an indicator of intelligence, or that it supports your accusations of our incompetence, considering you seem to be completely incapable of backing yourself up on your own. 

 

You justify it by none of us being offered a job? Do you even understand how hiring works? What makes you think DE is pulling in enough of a profit that they can afford to pay larger numbers of employees? Why would they hire us for pay when we're willing to do the work for free? I haven't read up on DE's hiring policies, because frankly, I'm not that interested in working there, but do you think the fact that some community members live in other countries might factor into their ability to be hired at all? That must be an excellent measure of the worth of someone's ideas concerning the game. Have you been offered a job at DE?

 

"Wearing the corpse of help as a deranged hat." Wow. It's very fair and reasonable of you to look at what is ultimately an emotional statement of concern as a definitive portrait of the sort of feedback I provide. /sarcasm. This thread, in its entirety, is expressing dismay at learning that all of the well-intentioned and constructive feedback some of us have been providing faithfully over the past year is not being heard the way we thought it was. Nowhere in my OP did I pull a  James Taggart and attempt to override DE's authority. The culmination of what I had to say was "DE, you need to start making some choices. I think choices a and b are bad ones, but if you're going to insist on going with those please make it clear that you are." If you missed that, you might want to consider the possibility that you are less cultured and sophisticated than you think you are. 

 

So no, I'm really not trying to help you. At all. I'm calling you out on behaving like a jerk because you didn't have the guts to call me incompetent in a manner other people were likely to understand. What upsets me, though, isn't that you've insulted me without actually pointing out the perceived flaws with what I had to say. It's that you've insulted almost every person who has participated in this thread, and attacking people without giving them the chance to defend themselves is the mark of a coward. For that, you have my undying contempt. 

Keep on owning those snobby brats! :D

[DiabolusUrsus]

This is an interesting debatte and I'd like to give feedback on these points as well:

 

4. This is a problem with overall balance, NOT with percentual scaling. You say that you think If we had flat scaling, the game would be easier to balance... You couldn't be further away from the truth. That would make it FAR harder to balance as it is far less predictable. Percentual scaling is healthy and more mathematically predictable and calculatable... IF YOU KNOW HOW MATHS WORK! Saying percentual scaling is less balanceable is very, VERY wrong. In fact, it's one of the few things DE have done right!

 

The REAL problem is not about the percentual scaling, it is that the BASIC balancing of the game is horrendous. Nothing else. Damagemods etc are too powerful numerically etc etc, the problems aren't actually bigger than that!

You say stuff like Jagged Edge (and similar P/S/I mods) would be better using flat scaling. Not necessarily true. They could be vastly improved, if they just scaled from TOTAL physical damage, similar to how elements work. Guess why Accelerated Blast on Shotguns was so good before? That's right, because it was "bugged" and worked like how elemental mods did!

 

6. Crits not being RNG would be an AWESOME change, that's for sure. I don't mind status procs being RNG though. They could even take the place of the old crits as "minicrits", on top of the specific ailments they provide. That way, there is a reason to, for example, proc Viral more than once on a target repeatedly in a short timespan (Because, even if you just maybe refresh the debuff, rather than stacking it, it would at least provide with minor minicrits meanwhile!)

 

4. I'll take your word for it. The only thing I'll mention is that I am not advocating flat scaling, just flat bonuses. For example, +30 Slash Damage instead of +30% slash damage. As you have said, though, simply calculating damage bonuses off of total damage instead of a specific damage type would expand the usefulness of the physical damage mods. If you say that percent scaling is more useful than flat bonuses I'll believe you; you probably know more about it than I do. The one problem I have with percent scaling is that it makes it so that powerful weapons have better overall growth than less powerful weapons. It broadens the gap between the various tiers of weapons, which I think is a bit detrimental in its current iteration. 

 

6. You know where I stand on this, but I'm not inclined to argue with you. 

[DiabolusUrsus]

It is? What GMT are you in?

I'm in US PST. 

 

Okay. I've read over your thread, and I like most of your ideas quite a bit. I like that you've shifted the emphasis of the role the Eximi play from "proccing annoying hindrances on the player" to (for the most part) supporting their allied troops with their amplified abilities. The Blitz Eximus rework is one of my favorites. 

I'm not too sure about the Shock Eximus super-charging allied damage output; I don't think we need enemies that further exacerbate how quickly enemies transition from dealing trivial amounts of damage to near-instant kills. That said, we've already got the propaganda drones, so as long as the Shock Eximus buff is similar in nature it shouldn't be too bad. Keep in mind, though, that the Corpus already deal quite a bit of damage in comparison to the Grineer, so you may want to shift the power-output buff into something a bit more indirect (e.g. an accuracy buff as opposed to direct damage increases.) The Corpus are using pin-point accurate zero-recoil rifles yet they shoot like Storm Troopers. 

[Innocent_Flower]

unless they're elite, who don't miss despite their rifles looking to be the most unwieldy thing in the corpus arsenal. 

Edited June 17, 2014 by Innocent_Flower

[DiabolusUrsus]

Well, yeah. :P But you'd never guess that the Dera was as accurate as it is from seeing Crewmen use it. 

[Fayde8]

Thank you OP, for this post. It is needed, and I hope the devs read it and take it to heart.

 

One of my biggest questions/problems/concerns with the game is, what I am supposed to do with all the maxed out, multi-forma'ed, maxed mod equipment that I have? Everything dies too easily. There is no challenge. And Boss fights are as the OP said.

 

The challenge, currently brought on by adding more enemies or new equipment, is not there. As others have said, adding these things does not make the game more interesting. It does not make it more fun. It does not make it more challenging. It just makes it so that I can now quickly kill something else, or level up a new weapon that will ultimately be able to quickly kill anything too. That does not introduce fun into the game. I want to use my existing equipment, and use it on something that is fun and challenging!

 

*****

 

Speaking of melee weapons, how can a solo player, with only a melee weapon equipped, complete the sabotage missions where you have to destroy the energy core thing? Most melee weapons simply can not hit all the breakable rods on the core, thus making it impossible to beat these missions. And since there is no such thing as an in-air melee attack (only a jumping ground smash), you can't jump and swing in order to hit the higher rods. Some melee weapons do work, but most don't.

 

Make the game fun to play by allowing me to use all the awesome, maxed out equipment that I already have, in any situation!

 

*****

 

The only thing I really enjoy now, is being swarmed by Infested, and trying to stay alive and destroy everything with melee weapons. That tense sense of being overwhelmed, making most ranged weapons quickly useless, along with having headphones on and hearing those creepy Infested growls, is the most fun I have!

 

But... You guys removed permanent Infested locations from the star chart. Now I can only do a handful of missions types with Infested, and RNG comes in to play with where those are even available.

 

The thing I look most forward to now, is the new Infested planet. I hope it is high level, and that swarms (even more than anything currently in the game) of them come at you, for the sheer terror and excitement that comes along with having to wade through them with a powerful melee weapon.    :)

Edited June 17, 2014 by Fayde8

[BETAOPTICS]

Your explanation is correct, however I don't accept that excuse at all.

 

Sure, it's difficult for DE to put together a comprehensive response to this thread. Or to any wide-reaching community dissatisfaction. But that is part of the work of running a global company. What this thread is really saying is:

 

"Where is Warframe going? What is working as intended and what is broken? Bosses? Solo? Melee? Balance? Parkour? Enemy Mechanics? Why do you consider them broken or not? What are your plans to fix them and when?"

 

 

This thread, and many other threads recently are asking for a comprehensive MISSION STATEMENT and ROADMAP from DE. There is no reason why a company cannot provide its customers with a mission statement for its landmark product.

 

If devs that are "too busy making the game to get wrapped up in feedback" would be better suited talking with other departments and the player base to ensure that they are actually improving the game instead of adding more "stuff".

 

TL;DR:

 

Adding more stuff != improving the game

Two-way communication with players to address widespread complaints about the same several issues = improving the game

I agree. I have already suggested DERebecca that they add a forum function that shows if the developers have looked into the topic. You know, a mark of a Lotus for example. And if they have replied, then there would be a similar direct link to their comment like in League of Legends has where you can check all of their comments by just clicking red posts 1/x.

And DERebecca agreed and said she'll pass that on to the team. Now, it has been a few months and I have not heard a word of it. To me, few months is not a long time considering it is a minor but somewhat important and beneficial addition to the forums but DE's time spectrum has often been very large so I am not going to put more pressure on them.

Though I imagine that if someone from their team would be willing to invest a day to make that forum format change. It would improve the forums immensely because the players would be able to be more progressive and not repeat the same things in hopes to get a comment directly from DE when they are too busy to comment due to the games development. Now we have confusion and uncertainty and think how much more effective tool the forums could be if we would have this system in place.

Sure, some copies would still be made but it would increase our effectiveness and the amount of copies drastically.

[Endrance]

*Gigantic and incredible accurate feeback*

In other gaming forums i participate, this thread is what it's usually called a: "Call to arms". which means, if only those 300+ players that upvoted this thread, do the same, and enforce the idea of change, we might succeed. Although, if they just click on the arrow upvote button and care no more for this, it will surely die.

 

This has been the best feedback i ever read overall, not just Warframe, but gamingwise.

 

Not only he pointed the most "deadly" problems, but also gave an "Real" example on how it should be. Despite the fact other companies like Capcom and Konami that are top tier in the gaming industry and have near unlimited resources to create whatever they want, DE has the knowledge to create what this feeback is all about.

[zoboso]

At least it is fortunate that we can still decide how to fight most regular enemies and do so as we choose instead of the restrictions on boss battles That DE believes are required.