Things That Needs To Be Balanced On Pvp - Updated U14

[DJ_Redwire]

About the PvP not interfering with PvE, so far DE did exactly that, there are many abilities with different effects on PvP (Rhino Stomp, Bastille...) Damage Types (Magnetic have a Disruption effect), and mods (Reflection was nerfed only on PvP)

 

I get so confused when there are always those people that pop up in PvP related threads saying "we can't have PvP cuz it might hurt PvE" when that's already been proven false by the fact that there are stark differences between how many things work in PvP and PvE already. I guess it just goes to show how small the population of people have actually even tried conclaves/dueling is in Warframe, let alone noticed any of the obvious differences in gameplay mechanics. 

[RancidTurnip1603]

I get so confused when there are always those people that pop up in PvP related threads saying "we can't have PvP cuz it might hurt PvE" when that's already been proven false by the fact that there are stark differences between how many things work in PvP and PvE already. I guess it just goes to show how small the population of people have actually even tried conclaves/dueling is in Warframe, let alone noticed any of the obvious differences in gameplay mechanics. 

I can understand if it's just one or two, but when you have to reiterate the fact over and over because over half of the posters are both pigheaded and completely uninformed it gets old rather quickly.

[DSpite]

I think people here are not seeing it from the correct perspective.

 

First of all, no "nerfing" of guns or mods in order to cater to PvP is necessary.

If you seriously want ABSOLUTE balance at all costs, it can be done in a number of ways.

 

The easiest to implement and possibly most annoying to the PVE'er that would want to take uber stuff in to the place is force premade loadouts, ie you have to pick a premade frame, then a premade weapon loadout. This idea would guarantee balance - or at least, as people play it, tweaks would be made that would eventually balance everything, but this extreme method would kinda go against the fact that you have grinded for a year to collect your cool gear to take in.

 

Another method is to force certain weapons or mods to work differently when in these arenas. Picking Full Black as energy for stealth would no longer work as it would default you to a preset, and everyone in stealth would look the same - but for the record, I'd like to point out that a form of game play that revolves around someones eyesight is unfair on other levels, as people with 20-20 vision or that have video card tweaks that can make the invisibility shimmer more obvious suddenly have advantage over players with small screens, crappy video settings and vision issues - but anyway, this type of system is no different to players of Magic The Gathering, where Uber cards are either illegal to play or have severe limitations, and it's a pretty decent form of balance.

 

Another system is damage scaling; Rather then allow people to bring in guns that can do 40k damage, give damage mods - while in these arenas - diminishing returns on points rather then linear, and a gun with everything maxed will now only do say, 25% more then a middle or the range, average modded one, instead of 5x that much, still an advantage, but not anywhere as bad, and when you leave the arena, everything works as it did in PvE.

 

I'm not saying these are good ideas, I'm trying to point out that measures can be in place that tweak the arena environment to the type of play WITHOUT having to actually change cards and mods and frames that we already have to make them balanced in a place where many will never go.

[Lord_Decado]

Great post!! +1

[Azawarau]

My colors in game are always black and pink

 

Luckily i always set pink as my energy color otherwise id be entirely invisible and not even know it

 

Good thread OP but you forgot the most OP thing of all

 

Decoy

 

Seriously

 

It points out the enemy position and makes it impossible to hide!

[RoboDoge]

As i said millions of times already, balance can be countered by simple PvP set of rules.

 

Use frames without mods and only with 4 pre made movement powers that all frames share. Front Dash, Super Jump, Teleport and Switch Teleport. All costing same energy.

 

 

Add some base weapons as Lex, AkBronco, Braton, Soma, Vectis, Tigris, Vasto, Paris, Bo, Dual Ether Swords, Reaper, Ankyros or any Tenno weapon with base stats and you would have pretty balanced PvP.

 

UT or Quake style would work the best.

[yessiree]

Disable every frame's fourth skill, disable all mod effects on frames and weapons in PvP

 

problem solved... almost

[RancidTurnip1603]

Disable every frame's fourth skill, disable all mod effects on frames and weapons in PvP

 

problem solved... almost

 

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Player_vs._Player_(PvP)

 

From a reduction/removal of CC potential, to completely removing the skills entirely, many skills have been modified in some manner as is, and it stands to reason once pvp balance is actually given an in-depth look, these skills will be modified even further.

 

Not to mention mods like reflection have been reduced for pvp significantly, and other unbalanced mods will very likely be put into a decent spot as well.

Edited June 11, 2014 by RancidTurnip1603

[Sev7n]

Pvp in general for this game has too much that would need changing to be anywhere near balanced. Not saying your ideas are bad just that it should not be a priority for this game at the moment. Only when the majority of the pve parts of this game are completed should pvp balancing start to be looked at.  

[KoinDuo]

Show where DE have stated Warframe is not a PvP game. Give me a link, a video, a quote, a screenshot, anything...

 

About your concerns, do not worry. If you read the Original Post, you would know that PvP changes do not affect PvE.

 

 

I play mostly on Europa Conclave (Rating 1000 max) or Pluto (Rating 1500 max) on N.A. East and N.A. West servers most of the time. But since i am from Brazil, i also play on South America Region, and if i can't find games in any of these servers, i switch to Europe Region. Unfortunately, everyone in Europe region abuses of all these broken things i mentioned in this topic.

check out one of their devstreams, I think its when they first introduced the dojo and duelling in clans. They stated explicitly that they are not making warframe a pvp oriented game

[Zero_Effect]

I will never engage in PVP without a 95% damage reduction. A game of who-has-least-lag is horrible.

[.Talia.]

check out one of their devstreams, I think its when they first introduced the dojo and duelling in clans. They stated explicitly that they are not making warframe a pvp oriented game

 

Give the Link or it's not true. 

 

Here you can read an interview with Steve Sinclair creative director of Warframe... http://mmohuts.com/editorials/warframe-qa-with-steve-sinclair-warframe-creative-director

 

"So PvE are the roots of the experience. That being said, the future of Warframe is growth. More bosses, greater enemies, more factions, but eventually we will be reaching outward into giving Clans greater meaning and yes, eventually, PvP."

 

Not making warframe a pvp oriented game is one thing, but that doesn't mean that they are never going to improve the pvp aspect of the game. 

 

Here you can watch the Devstream they talk about the Dark Sectors MOBA PvP http://youtu.be/AOPl10G-Ddo?t=24m22s

 

 

I will never engage in PVP without a 95% damage reduction. A game of who-has-least-lag is horrible.

 

That's nonsense, there is no shooter in the world with a TTK (Time-to-kill) so high... Every shooter out there it takes less than 0.5 seconds to kill an enemy. The problem is that Warframe players are so used to their godly powers, they can't accept dying so fast in a PvP match. 

 

 

Disable every frame's fourth skill, disable all mod effects on frames and weapons in PvP

 

problem solved... almost

 

 

This would be so boring. Why not just balance the mods and abilities instead?

Edited June 13, 2014 by RexSol

[fatpig84]

I will never engage in PVP without a 95% damage reduction. A game of who-has-least-lag is horrible.

 

Nearly every TDM centric game has most players dying under a couple of seconds in someone's crosshair.

COD and BF are the most notable examples. But even Halo and Crysis where you are supposed to be super human.

 

It won't change with Warframe unless conclave is replaced with fixed set of equipment instead of conclave ratings where people can feel free to bring their best kit along.

Edited June 13, 2014 by fatpig84

[KoinDuo]

what i said was that DE is not going to make warframe a pvp oriented game.... your link just goes to prove my point

 

Give the Link or it's not true. 

 

Here you can read an interview with Steve Sinclair creative director of Warframe... http://mmohuts.com/editorials/warframe-qa-with-steve-sinclair-warframe-creative-director

 

"So PvE are the roots of the experience. That being said, the future of Warframe is growth. More bosses, greater enemies, more factions, but eventually we will be reaching outward into giving Clans greater meaning and yes, eventually, PvP."

 

Not making warframe a pvp oriented game is one thing, but that doesn't mean that they are never going to improve the pvp aspect of the game. 

 

Here you can watch the Devstream they talk about the Dark Sectors MOBA PvP http://youtu.be/AOPl10G-Ddo?t=24m22s

 

well there you go, they're not making it a pvp oriented game, which was what i said before, and while they will improve the pvp aspect of it, i doubt they'll go so far as to nerf mods and warframe ablilities JUST for pvp. too much work and its too impractical. only way pvp is ever going to be balanced if all warframes start with 0 mods, just their abilities, but even then everyone is going to pick rhino, frost, ash etc etc. fact is, all warframes are imbalanced in pvp(except oberon) and thats cuz this is a pve game. even if you nerf the quickthinking/rage combo, you're still gonna get 1 shot by bladestorm, slowed by snow globe, screwed by rhino skin or hysteria. heck, even a shuriken can instagib you. there's no way that DE could ever balance pvp without screwing up pve in some way, and a lot of people prefer pve over pvp.

[.Talia.]

what i said was that DE is not going to make warframe a pvp oriented game.... your link just goes to prove my point

 

well there you go, they're not making it a pvp oriented game, which was what i said before, and while they will improve the pvp aspect of it, i doubt they'll go so far as to nerf mods and warframe ablilities JUST for pvp. too much work and its too impractical. only way pvp is ever going to be balanced if all warframes start with 0 mods, just their abilities, but even then everyone is going to pick rhino, frost, ash etc etc. fact is, all warframes are imbalanced in pvp(except oberon) and thats cuz this is a pve game. even if you nerf the quickthinking/rage combo, you're still gonna get 1 shot by bladestorm, slowed by snow globe, screwed by rhino skin or hysteria. heck, even a shuriken can instagib you. there's no way that DE could ever balance pvp without screwing up pve in some way, and a lot of people prefer pve over pvp.

 

You realize they can make changes that only affect PvP ? There are already many changes in place. 

 

If you really believe they will never touch the PvP in Warframe, you are in denial. Dark Sectors MOBA is coming, the PvP aspect of this game will get some attention from the developers... So you prefer the PvP to stay unbalanced? Personally as an avid PvP player i would like them to balance it. It's not impossible. 

 

Like i said before in other posts, the fact that PvP in Warframe is unbalanced, its just more reason to balance it, and not a reason to abandon PvP, and leave it the way it is now.

Edited June 13, 2014 by RexSol

[KoinDuo]

if they can balance pvp without affecting pve at all, idc. however, after seeing games like WoW and Neverwinter that got their pve aspect of their games wrecked cuz they tried to balance pvp, i'm skeptical as to whether or not DE can pull this off. 

[zavienh5]

O_O dayum

[Zero.No.Hikari]

Kinda wish they would go Pure MOBA when doing DS PvP like have a place where you spend the pts on a mod and skill for frames/weapons that you have in your mod list with of course the skills still costing the pts they would on their scratches as well as forma being taken into account.  That way not only would everyone be equal you can't just load up what you want and it'd be a fun way to test builds while playing around with friends. 

 

Maybe even push that into conclaves, then I would play it besides just screwing around with clannies

[koopagon]

*a comprehensive post about how to fix PvP balance*

i appreaciate your conviction towards balancing the PvP side of warframe but this post seems to have ignored/missed one of the features they were talking about when they were talking about dark sector PvP fights and that was that when the round starts, everyone would start as a rank 0 everything. abilities and mods would activate when the player has sufficiently leveled up.

 

so from my understanding of how they explained this would work, your abilities would unlock from the top left to the bottom right. so if you had a mod worth 14 points in the first slot and you had a potato, you would need to get to rank 7 before that first mod would kick in. or if that mod was normally worth 14 but was in a proper slot, it would only cost 7 and therefore only require rank 4.

 

i think this is their method of balancing for alot of those mods you listed. will it work out as well? i dont know we will find out when this feature goes live.

 

if this in any way rains on your parade, im not sorry.

[.Talia.]

i appreaciate your conviction towards balancing the PvP side of warframe but this post seems to have ignored/missed one of the features they were talking about when they were talking about dark sector PvP fights and that was that when the round starts, everyone would start as a rank 0 everything. abilities and mods would activate when the player has sufficiently leveled up.

 

so from my understanding of how they explained this would work, your abilities would unlock from the top left to the bottom right. so if you had a mod worth 14 points in the first slot and you had a potato, you would need to get to rank 7 before that first mod would kick in. or if that mod was normally worth 14 but was in a proper slot, it would only cost 7 and therefore only require rank 4.

 

i think this is their method of balancing for alot of those mods you listed. will it work out as well? i dont know we will find out when this feature goes live.

 

if this in any way rains on your parade, im not sorry.

 

I sincerely hope you are right! So if this rains on my parade, you shouldn't be sorry, because i would be happy.

 

But i doubt it, people will figure out cheap builds, that activates OP stuff as fast as possible. Because things in Warframe needs only a few mods to be broken OP.

[koopagon]

I sincerely hope you are right! So if this rains on my parade, you shouldn't be sorry, because i would be happy.

 

But i doubt it, people will figure out cheap builds, that activates OP stuff as fast as possible. Because things in Warframe needs only a few mods to be broken OP.

theres no denying people will find cheap builds and in the end i can see them needing to reduce the effectiveness of some setups to make the mode more fun for everyone.

 

the only plus side i can think of right now is how excited they sounded to implement this and the fact they showed announced this and gave a brief demo a while back and havent given much more since then so they are definitely trying to make this mode fun for everyone and not just "who has the best build"

[Monolake]

Ash Shuriken with forced bleed proc and auto-aim is quite cheap too

[Phonxi]

How about you level up each 5 or 10 kills and when you die you drop one level, plus the no god mode or auto target in PvP fix.

Fun DS for all!

[Zero_Effect]

Nearly every TDM centric game has most players dying under a couple of seconds in someone's crosshair.

COD and BF are the most notable examples. But even Halo and Crysis where you are supposed to be super human.

 

It won't change with Warframe unless conclave is replaced with fixed set of equipment instead of conclave ratings where people can feel free to bring their best kit along.

I'm aware.

 

I'm just stating that I hate it. I know it's personal opinion, but competitive games I can enjoy are few and far between and I wouldn't mind letting people know why. TF2 is the only competitive shooter I have any appreciation for because (at least with standard loadouts), most classes only "instant-"kill you if they earn it. In most shooters I've played, you one-shot-kill someone by seeing them. My experience in Warframe's conclave has been utter garbage because there is no interaction, there is no cat-and-mouse, there is nothing but a single bullet.

[Tulzscha]

Moved to the proper section.