This Was A Disapointing Update. No; This Was An Insulting Update.

[CarrotSalad]

 I'm game for you thinking whatever you want. I'm not trying to tell you to think a certain way. I'm just trying to tell people to give it time. We've been on this ride before, we'll see a few waves of hotfixes and then they'll make it more palatable for everyone and most of the rage dies.

 

Its been a growing problem for over 6 months its not like the players have been silent on this issue. Each update its been getting worse. Theres been absolutely no reduction in that time. Its been going in the opposite direction.

 

I've never played a game (20+ yrs of gaming), even in beta that has this much dilution and dependancy on RNG's. I am lost for words. Im glad youre offering a different point of view.

 

I personally stopped spending money after the argon came into the game. I've already seen all my friends and guild friends walk away barring 1 when they put in oxium. I only know 2 people closely who still play :( down from 15, 5 months ago.

 

Players have to keep the developers in check. I dont want to scare the developers away from the forums and i hope and pray that they dont get hurt or scared from all this feedback.

 

We all love this game we love the studio and developers who brought it to us. we're here because we're passionate about it. <3

[OniDax]

There is a big change though: warframe became even more grindy and tedious than before, enough so for people who normally only play the game to stop playing and come onto the forums to voice their disgust.

 

Ok, so it's specifically about the Void then?

[Hellzsaint]

Heh

[notlamprey]

Explain Token system?

 

Instead of RNG-based drop systems, a Token System tries to guarantee a certain amount of player progress by always providing items that the player can use to craft the item they want.

 

Imagine that Void missions always dropped a certain number of "Orokin Research Points", and that those points could be used to build any Prime item we wanted. You can make higher-tier missions award more points, but the basic idea is that you will always get some progress for your time.

[Parthieon]

Instead of RNG-based drop systems, a Token System tries to guarantee a certain amount of player progress by always providing items that the player can use to craft the item they want.

 

Imagine that Void missions always dropped a certain number of "Orokin Research Points", and that those points could be used to build any Prime item we wanted. You can make higher-tier missions award more points, but the basic idea is that you will always get some progress for your time.

WHY ISNT THIS A THING. OH GOD I JUST THINK THAT THIS IS THE BEST GODDAM IDEA IVE HEARD EVER FOR THIS GAME

[Katakuna]

Instead of RNG-based drop systems, a Token System tries to guarantee a certain amount of player progress by always providing items that the player can use to craft the item they want.

 

Imagine that Void missions always dropped a certain number of "Orokin Research Points", and that those points could be used to build any Prime item we wanted. You can make higher-tier missions award more points, but the basic idea is that you will always get some progress for your time.

 

A token system sounds so heavenly, that when I mentally compared it to the current state of affairs, I shed a single tear.

 

Working towards a goal!  Luck not being the sole trait needed for progression!  Why don't we have these nice things?  What sins have we committed that demand that those nice things remain out of Warframe's grasp?!

[Parthieon]

But in all seriousness, this update that came out about the void drop tables is awlful. And i want to stay here and play this game. I love this game, but lately ive lost my interest in this game, because i got tierd of voids. I litterally could fall asleep while doing a void mission. I could go on with more issues. Ive played this game since july of last year, so im rank 13, with some of the top gear. Im not even a founder and im just this pissed. I love DE and this game, but christ the direction the drop table came out with is awful.

[Hellzsaint]

Too bad this thread is hidden

[CptKornflake]

Don't you think it is overreacting just is little bit to be throwing your hands up in disgust because of a rough patch? Have you not been around long? Warframe is a bumpy ride, man.

 

 Right now DE is crunching to fix as many issues the community has found with the update as possible and do it in as little time as possible. They aren't talking a whole lot because it is just so much more important for the problem to be over.

 

 Give it some time. It's a huge pain in the butt considering the hype train for Loki Prime, but this is just part of the reality of the Beta nature of the game. Things aren't going to work out 100% every patch. This isn't a perfectly stable title.

The thing is, if no one said anything nothing would happen. I know people being disgusted is a bit overboard, but from our perspective it may seem a bit rude or bad.

[Paradoxbomb]

Of all the sentinels to go prime: it had to be the useless one. Problem is that the model is realy, realy cool. It's a mini Oriental dragon. I can run around with mushu following me, yet I don't wanna because wyrm is bad. Carrier would have been great. Shade would have been alright. Actually any sentinel would be good should they also receive an update that makes them useful. Wyrm? No. 

 

 

Well, I gotta disagree with you on this one. Wyrm is actually quite a very useful companion for melee combat. Free finishers!

 

Otherwise I agree with you. Not to keen on the addition of T4 missions, especially since they did nothing to fix the whole void dilution issue. I'm also not much of an Interception fan but it looks like I have no choice but to play it now if I want those keys *sigh*.

 

 

Although I do wanna battle Vor Prime, I hear he's a pretty tough fight.

[Drakoniz]

I've played 5 interceptions til wave 4 or 5, and never came a T4 key...    ._.  WTF warframe ? 

Hate interceptions more than rescue missions... 

And what the hell? in some points there were no enemy around and lost the towers anyways...

[DSpite]

Wow, just wow.
 

I thought I saw tears in the EVE Online forums when they first nerfed the Drake, or even when - shock horror - they made massive changes to Marauders, but this is worse.

 

All this complaints over ONE patch on a free to play Ninja-Trackmania hybrid? Seriously? Did you pump money each month for years in order to get enough skill points for a ship that got "nerfed" the day before you skilled to use it? Did you login one day and found that your home station with 10 billion in assets is locked out to you permanently?

 

What the hell do you people want exactly? How about you harden the frak up a little.

 

This is a GAME. You play it for entertainment purposes.

 

The Warframe community is so far the most friendly one I have ever met. I have swapped Prime parts with alliance players for free, I've been taxied around, I've been let into long waves defence games to help level brand new gear and frames ... in most of the other games I have you get kicked if you don't bring ultra-leet gear or don't get into teams unless you can show 2:1 kill ratios or have a killboard full of dead targets.

 

If your primary goal here is not the community, and not just the coop social aspect of jumping on games and just playing for the hell of it, I can't for the life of me understand why you are here. No one is forcing you to grind, no one is forcing you to uber your gear, or to collect everything. Most other games with clans will kick you and get angry at you unless you "pull your weight", and this does not happen here, as there is no weight to be pulled, and clans are just to share in the experience, and to help you along in the game.

 

The only thing even remotely relevant to the "power creep" and "balance" arguments will be when proper PvP is introduced, and even then, I'm pretty sure that we will probably have some point system to frames/gear so that it wont be just down to who shoved more Forma in all their stuff, so until that point, try to remember that at heart, Warframe is a coop game, not a competitive one - and most importantly FREE - so most arguments about balance are rather pointless.

[notlamprey]

First of all,

frak

 ew.

 

Second, "proper PvP?" I sure hope not.

 

You should realize that you're assuming the trials of EVE Online represent a 'reasonable' reference for the kind of investment people can be expected to make in a leisure activity. That's just so far from sanity that I can't really level a rebuttal. All I can do is assure you that EVE has poisoned your brain, and that in time you will make a full recovery.

 

Yes, I've seen the scale of its conflicts. Yes, I'm familiar with The False Tower. No, I don't think it's productive to be telling people to "harden the..." yuck; I can't bring myself to repeat that nasty word. I hope you didn't learn that from Battlestar Galactica.

 

edit: Add a splash of vodka to your tomato sauces. Tomatoes contain flavor compounds that are only soluble in alcohol, and you'll get a richer flavor profile by adding vodka at the beginning of your simmer.

Edited June 12, 2014 by notlamprey

[Llyssa]

I'm rather much liking the update so far. Not sure what you're upset about.

[CosyPigeon]

Looks Like DE has used up it's 'shiny things' cred. We don't want more shiny things DE, we want the damn game you promised. 

[WayToDawn96]

Wow,the moderators are really cracking down on alot of these threads. Im suprised this one is still alive and kicking.

[Legion-Shields]

AHAHAHHAHA

AAHAAHHAHHAAHHAHAHAHA

AHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAAAH

THIS IS MY REVENGE.

NEVER MOCK THE HYPE TRAIN!

[Beas7ie]

WHY ISNT THIS A THING. OH GOD I JUST THINK THAT THIS IS THE BEST GODDAM IDEA IVE HEARD EVER FOR THIS GAME

 

Because that would actually make sense and allow players to actually have lives and not spend hours upon hours or doing 40 minute survivals and getting 8 keys(seriously just happened to me) and we all know that DE would never allow that craziness to happen.(the token thing that actually makes sense)

[Cwierz]

Looks Like DE has used up it's 'shiny things' cred. We don't want more shiny things DE, we want the damn game you promised. 

Instead of *@##&#036;ing about it in this thread, make constructive posts or create your own threads to talk about issues.

Just saying "omg rng is so bad wtf u suck de" doesn't do S#&amp;&#036;. Unless you can create a system to replace rng and convince the devs that "hey this is a good idea/decent idea", there really isn't much you can do in terms of changing something.

[Mikaru_Y]

Instead of *@##$ing about it in this thread, make constructive posts or create your own threads to talk about issues.

Just saying "omg rng is so bad wtf u suck de" doesn't do S#&$. Unless you can create a system to replace rng and convince the devs that "hey this is a good idea/decent idea", there really isn't much you can do in terms of changing something.

Plenty of people have tried to convince them with a token system, but for some reason they get the impression that it's a bad idea and said no to it.

 

I'm basically at the point where I think DE has no intention of listening to us ever unless people stop paying them.

[Shadedwalk]

I can appreciate the frustration of the original poster at the choice of which sentinel to prime, but that is really just a matter of opinion. The key, valid, point in this thread is the horrible implementation of the T4 keys and their horrendous drop tables. 

 

I'm not worried about the concept of progression. That is something that you can either love or hate about the game as it stands. Figuring out how to make the "old vs. new player base excited to keep playing" is something with which almost all developers will struggle. DE will have its ups and downs on this one and I'm more than happy to be along for the ride. (Assuming some changes.)

 

I also do not care one way or the other about the mission types. Interception is by far the most mind numbing mission type. It does not have the activity of a Survival or a Defense, and lacks that directness of the other types, i.e. go here kill, capture, or help hack this. It does require you to be fairly on your toes, since there is usually an inexplicable jump in difficulty at various point. Just standing around doing nothing with occasional sprays of gun fire and then suddenly the location gets raided by a serious hail of ****. I keep trying them occasionally to see if this is being looked into for balancing; hasn't happened yet. ... All that being said, I don't care that you have added them to the void. Good on you, it is now another place for you to place prime parts and other goodies in the void. They may be the most hatted runs out there but that will make it all the sweeter when you finally get the part you have been trying to get.

 

But that just brings me to the actual point. Whoever made the calls on this patch was solely looking at this as a money maker. With each Prime Access patch, the rewards that are available in those patches become harder and harder to get via normal game play. Ember Prime: Not a problem, it took a bit to get the "rare" piece for a lot of people but when it came out there was no major push, other than sheer impatience, to buy the Prime Access Patch. Rhino Prime: The parts where placed mostly on Survival missions, arguably the most diluted reward table in the game. That took a long while to farm up for most, I am fairly sure that they amount of income from that Prime Access was a fair bit more than the one for Ember. Now you have Loki Prime: The compound RNG pain for this one is staggering. I haven't even started to go out farming for any of this yet. Here's why: The parts for some of them are on fairly benign keys, i.e. T2 Capture (Awesome, been looking for a use for those other than as a way to get forma at an amazing rate.), but the parts to complete them are on the 2nd tier of a particularly messed up set of RNG. First you have to farm up the T4 Keys. These have a chance to drop on the Third round of interception. This is almost as bad as farming for the Delta Beacons for Vay Hek. (Haven't tried many Interception yet, it may actually be worse depending on how generous DE was feeling about the % chance of a T4 dropping over a T3 or other.) It doesn't even matter if you get the key you want. You will still be at this for a very long time because you will need more than just one. Now that you have your Key, you are looking at a Drop table that is, if it is as listed, nearly the exact same as the T3 list with one or two additions. You remember all the time it took to farm up the Rhino Prime Chassis, how many keys you when through,.. not just yours though, you ran out and had to jump into Recruiting to finally get it done. We are now looking at that same farming process only with harder enemies, and a significantly lower % chance to get what you need. 

 

DE has had some practice at screwing with the Drop Tables. The derelicts were introduced to expand them and make more room for the crowed lists. The T4 keys seem to have been added in the hopes of doing this same thing. Here the problem though. Rather than making it easier to space things out and make the drops all fairly reasonable, you know better than 10% chance to get what you need (Hell, I might almost get excited by a 10% chance about now.), the tables have been diluted with the chance to get other keys, "Rare" resources that are much better farmed somewhere else, and Cores. The credit prizes were probably one of the worst thing I saw during this process, thankfully those seem to been mostly gone at last report. 

 

I am a Founder; a late one but one regardless. When I was introduced to this game, I liked it enough to drop a lot of money on supporting it. I did not need Excalibur Prime. I didn't need the Skana Prime. I didn't need the Lato Prime. (Though honestly the shiny is awesome.) I wanted to see DE succeed at making a really awesome game. Had I not gone ***** deep on the Founder pack I would probably still have dropped money on this game. I like it. I really like it. Some of the frames need some serious work and "balancing" but that IS happening and I could not be happier. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who feels this way.

 

Given everything I have seen happening over that last couple months I feel the need to know if DE is actually losing money on this venture. Are enough people just leeching off the work of the developers that it isn't financially viable as a Free to play game? If that is the case, the community needs to know. For the most part, we as a community want this game to succeed. ( I am aware of the haters, they can **** a *** **** for all I care.) I'm not going to go all bleeding heart on this one and back DE blindly though. DE is a business. They are probably not anywhere near the red on this one. I know enough people who have purchased plat or packs, that I'm fairly sure they are solidly in the black with a mile wide cushion. Given that probability, I'm really hoping that the people running the development of this game take the financial wizard(s) that is behind these choices and castrates them. This latest Pack Release is a clear step in the right direction if you are trying to show your player base that you are really only in it for the money. If that is the case, please keep it up, I have a list or developers I black list, Blizzard right at the top, I'd like to know if I need to add DE to that list. 

 

If you find that some aspect of this has touch a nerve and actually want input on a solution to balancing the drop tables I will gladly offer what input I have. Please feel free to message me if you want it, but I'm pretty sure I'm not going to get that kind of attention. 

[frontbrexer]

It wouldn't even be that difficult to fix the dillution. All they have to do is use the derelict keys. Create a tier system I-III and add void rewards: done.

So far only defense and survival have proper rewards. If you did it properly you could halve the current void droptable.

And considering that you decide which key to build you only need to farm for one resource instead for a specific key.

[notlamprey]

I can appreciate the frustration of the original poster at the choice of which sentinel to prime, but that is really just a matter of opinion. The key, valid, point in this thread is the horrible implementation of the T4 keys and their horrendous drop tables. 

 

I'm not worried about the concept of progression. That is something that you can either love or hate about the game as it stands. Figuring out how to make the "old vs. new player base excited to keep playing" is something with which almost all developers will struggle. DE will have its ups and downs on this one and I'm more than happy to be along for the ride. (Assuming some changes.)

 

I also do not care one way or the other about the mission types. Interception is by far the most mind numbing mission type. It does not have the activity of a Survival or a Defense, and lacks that directness of the other types, i.e. go here kill, capture, or help hack this. It does require you to be fairly on your toes, since there is usually an inexplicable jump in difficulty at various point. Just standing around doing nothing with occasional sprays of gun fire and then suddenly the location gets raided by a serious hail of ****. I keep trying them occasionally to see if this is being looked into for balancing; hasn't happened yet. ... All that being said, I don't care that you have added them to the void. Good on you, it is now another place for you to place prime parts and other goodies in the void. They may be the most hatted runs out there but that will make it all the sweeter when you finally get the part you have been trying to get.

 

But that just brings me to the actual point. Whoever made the calls on this patch was solely looking at this as a money maker. With each Prime Access patch, the rewards that are available in those patches become harder and harder to get via normal game play. Ember Prime: Not a problem, it took a bit to get the "rare" piece for a lot of people but when it came out there was no major push, other than sheer impatience, to buy the Prime Access Patch. Rhino Prime: The parts where placed mostly on Survival missions, arguably the most diluted reward table in the game. That took a long while to farm up for most, I am fairly sure that they amount of income from that Prime Access was a fair bit more than the one for Ember. Now you have Loki Prime: The compound RNG pain for this one is staggering. I haven't even started to go out farming for any of this yet. Here's why: The parts for some of them are on fairly benign keys, i.e. T2 Capture (Awesome, been looking for a use for those other than as a way to get forma at an amazing rate.), but the parts to complete them are on the 2nd tier of a particularly messed up set of RNG. First you have to farm up the T4 Keys. These have a chance to drop on the Third round of interception. This is almost as bad as farming for the Delta Beacons for Vay Hek. (Haven't tried many Interception yet, it may actually be worse depending on how generous DE was feeling about the % chance of a T4 dropping over a T3 or other.) It doesn't even matter if you get the key you want. You will still be at this for a very long time because you will need more than just one. Now that you have your Key, you are looking at a Drop table that is, if it is as listed, nearly the exact same as the T3 list with one or two additions. You remember all the time it took to farm up the Rhino Prime Chassis, how many keys you when through,.. not just yours though, you ran out and had to jump into Recruiting to finally get it done. We are now looking at that same farming process only with harder enemies, and a significantly lower % chance to get what you need. 

 

DE has had some practice at screwing with the Drop Tables. The derelicts were introduced to expand them and make more room for the crowed lists. The T4 keys seem to have been added in the hopes of doing this same thing. Here the problem though. Rather than making it easier to space things out and make the drops all fairly reasonable, you know better than 10% chance to get what you need (Hell, I might almost get excited by a 10% chance about now.), the tables have been diluted with the chance to get other keys, "Rare" resources that are much better farmed somewhere else, and Cores. The credit prizes were probably one of the worst thing I saw during this process, thankfully those seem to been mostly gone at last report. 

 

I am a Founder; a late one but one regardless. When I was introduced to this game, I liked it enough to drop a lot of money on supporting it. I did not need Excalibur Prime. I didn't need the Skana Prime. I didn't need the Lato Prime. (Though honestly the shiny is awesome.) I wanted to see DE succeed at making a really awesome game. Had I not gone ***** deep on the Founder pack I would probably still have dropped money on this game. I like it. I really like it. Some of the frames need some serious work and "balancing" but that IS happening and I could not be happier. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who feels this way.

 

Given everything I have seen happening over that last couple months I feel the need to know if DE is actually losing money on this venture. Are enough people just leeching off the work of the developers that it isn't financially viable as a Free to play game? If that is the case, the community needs to know. For the most part, we as a community want this game to succeed. ( I am aware of the haters, they can **** a *** **** for all I care.) I'm not going to go all bleeding heart on this one and back DE blindly though. DE is a business. They are probably not anywhere near the red on this one. I know enough people who have purchased plat or packs, that I'm fairly sure they are solidly in the black with a mile wide cushion. Given that probability, I'm really hoping that the people running the development of this game take the financial wizard(s) that is behind these choices and castrates them. This latest Pack Release is a clear step in the right direction if you are trying to show your player base that you are really only in it for the money. If that is the case, please keep it up, I have a list or developers I black list, Blizzard right at the top, I'd like to know if I need to add DE to that list. 

 

If you find that some aspect of this has touch a nerve and actually want input on a solution to balancing the drop tables I will gladly offer what input I have. Please feel free to message me if you want it, but I'm pretty sure I'm not going to get that kind of attention. 

 

Brace for truth fallout. This update has put me in a weird position. I'm almost certain this one could have been better handled.

 

I'm disappointed by the introduction of T4 keys to start with. I see they attempted to compromise between broad and tall on this point, and I'm willing to concede that T4 might yet be turned to some good.  Lots of people were asking for it, and if DE put it in because we asked for it, fine. If they put it in because they wanted it, also fine. Not ideal, but fine.

 

If only it had stopped there. T4 keys being restricted to *maybe* the third wave of "Medium" and "Hard" Interception missions? It's the beacon nonsense all over again.

 

You all know the rest of the sad tale. I'll cut it short and say I absolutely have to be honest for a second. With greatest possible respect to DE, I say this is butt-farting-poopy-badtimes. I totally understand that creating is risky, and that operating a business is risky. I can be cognizant of all the stresses that DE staff deal with, of all the challenges germane to their position and still say they need to know this is dookie-diapers.

 

I believe that it's completely possible to level this kind of criticism without being needlessly malicious. I really like this game. I also want to like the people who birthed it and are guiding its development. I want to encourage them to believe in their awesome, and to remember that I am criticizing the work, and not the workman.

 

Dear lovely and most-esteemed DE humanpeoples, I can't be excited or pleased in any way about the current state of T4 keys and T4 drop tables. I believe that there is lots of awesome on your team, but I can't currently see it. I want to see it! I don't want updates that leave me questioning your stated relationship with the community. I want to feel good about this game and the Team, but I have to make the sad statement that I kinda... don't right now. Please understand that I really am unhappy to say that.

 

Does anyone remember Steve's gigantic accountability post? It was a wonderful, poignant moment. I can't feel that spirit anymore. I don't know where it went, or if I'm just not looking hard enough.

 

[Vargras]

I give it two weeks tops before all these folks give it up and go back to playing the game. Happens with every big update.

 

You can threaten to quit all you want, but it'll never happen.

[--Sokol]

 

Now children, what have we learned about jumping on hype trains?

 

The fourth quadrant is an accurate representation of most forum users. Not the "suicide" part of course, but instead I'd replace it with complaining from the bottom of their souls.