Captain Vor - De Need To Explain The Time Line Here... Vor Can Time Travel?

[MDRLOz]

TL DR: Captin Vor does not have a coherent timeline. De need to stop adding bits randomly and sort out a coherent narrative. At current rate the game is going to be out for two years and we have not seen any sensible lore.

I only just realised that Vor does not make sense from a chronological point of view. Now that there are two time points for Vor (normal Vor and void Vor) we need to know how he works.

1) Vor dies in the opening trailer of the game (the Call). Dies and cut in two by Excalibur.
2) Player fights Vor in mercury. Vor is defeated. Death animation collapses into two bits
3) Player fights Vor in Phobos. Vor is defeated. Death animation collapses into two bits
4) Player fights Vor in void. Vor is cut in two now but held together by the power of his Janus key.

De have said that number 2 is to be replaced by new player ship stuff. Basically "the call" happens but you get rescued, Vor escapes and you are given a ship and want to go after Vor as your extend intro to your ship and the game. (This was on devstream one before last). However then I guess we kill him... Is that when we cut him I two? But then how is he on Phobos? Do we get to cut him in two on Phobos? Vor getting split in two is a very important plot and time point. However now it s not clear when and how it happens.

There is no approved order of head time points yet.

However all De needs to do to fix it is say... swap captain for on Phobos with Sargas Ruk. Fighting fire and ice together would be cool.

Sadly unless update 14 proves me wrong it is just another plot hole cased by a lack of coherent narrative and lack of established lore. I do not mean to DE bash but they have to stop just chucking snippets of things and hints of lore out whenever they feel like it just because they think it's cool they have been doing it for almost two years... Phobos Vor was DE being lazy and reusing 2 existing bosses instead of makIng a new one. A giant skate would have been a simple and sensible choice, instead de thought it would be cool to fight two old bosses at once. Then Void Vor is cool, but he could have waited till u14 and made hopefully a little more sense, instead DE throw him out into the spotlight early and reduce his effect. Also I am surprised it took so long to bring us T4 keys. Did Vor delay the release?

 

EDIT: If the Janus key "allows" Vor to time travel then all this is fine and opens up a ream of cool story possibilities. However if this the case DE needs to say so.

 

EDIT 2: Can we stop with the "clones" arguement. DE have never said ether there are legions of the bosses cloned ready for deployment after we kill the first one. Also Things like this: https://twitter.com/PlayWarframe/status/465876774115893248/photo/1

Indicates that each Grineer is unique. (or at least they think they are duh duh DUH!) DE has never eluded anything more about the Grineer being special clones or how the cloning methods/structure works. Also while I am here I just want to point out that a genetic copy of someone will not BE the same person unless Grineer also have the ability to copy and imprint memories from one clone to the other (SCIENCE!), which they also have never eluded anything about. So until otherwise disproved there is only one Captin Vor.

Edited June 14, 2014 by MDRLOz

[-InV-Skitz0]

Well time traveling vor wouldn't be to far fetched in my opinion. Vor's key is the Janus key. In ancient Roman religion and myth. Janus (Lat: Ianus, pronounced [ia nus]) is the god of beginnings and transitions, and thereby of gates, doors, passages, endings and time.    

Edited June 13, 2014 by Skitz0

[Casardis]

I agree. Though the lore bits by themselves are interesting, it doesn't make a coherent line well enough with Vor's story. If Phobos is canon (which it is), it can't fit anywhere if "The Call" is the first one to happen.

 

Well time traveling vor wouldn't be to far fetched in my opinion. Vor's key is the Janus key. In ancient Roman religion and myth. Janus (Lat: Ianus, pronounced [ia nus]) is the god of beginnings and transitions, and thereby of gates, doors, passages, endings and time.   

 

This is a good point, but that still makes Phobos Vor a bit confusing to me.

Edited June 13, 2014 by Casardis

[Farren]

Lore is very disconnected from older gameplay. Until it isn't, conflicts should be disregarded until it's cleaned up by DE in my honest opinion.

[rapt0rman]

I think this is one of those times where "it's beta" fits to a T, I'm pretty sure vor+krill on phobos is a placeholder (I think that was mentioned on one of the recent devstreams), and the rest of the story/content is getting made piece by piece to fill in the holes.

 

So pretty much this:

 conflicts should be disregarded until it's cleaned up

[Un1337ninj4]

Dude, he a timeline, it's just based on when the player first starts the game, by the time you meet Corrupt Vor you're probably not using the same Excal, MK-1 Bratty, Lato, and Skana w/o a sent from your first encounter with the tasty lad.

 

Trailer is rectified through cloning, we don't know their method so there's no possible way to say it's not accurate, notice no time of occurrence where these Tenno may not be your character.

 

Player eventually kills Vor on Mercury, worry not.

 

Player eventually kills again on Phobos.

 

Vor finds out how to use his prize.

 

Janus Key.

 

Still broken, but let us see what DE does with it.

Edited June 13, 2014 by un1337ninj4

[Casardis]

I think this is one of those times where "it's beta" fits to a T, I'm pretty sure vor+krill on phobos is a placeholder (I think that was mentioned on one of the recent devstreams), and the rest of the story/content is getting made piece by piece to fill in the holes.

 

How can it be placeholder if it's related to the Arid Fear event, and its conclusion? (you can even read that in the Codex events). Also, "beta" isn't an excuse for a seemingly lack of coherence in lore and story; that's something which should have been thought and organized beforehand, so that the world can build upon it coherently.

 

 

Trailer is rectified through cloning, we don't know their method so there's no possible way to say it's not accurate

 

From what we see, people like Captain Vor and Ruk are unique individuals. They may still be clone of the same DNA, but since their cloning is imperfect (sometimes creating bigger units like Heavy gunners and Napalms), there's bound to be differences amongts them. That might be why there are ranks too; if they are completely identical, there wouldn't be a Captain Vor, and if their cloning were perfect, they would have made millions of clones of the strongest units instead of making Lancers.

 

In that sense, by logic, I can't agree that the whole "cloning" argument has weight on the matter, or else it would take away the impact of those character's presence (and the recent Vor + Janus Key deal).

Edited June 13, 2014 by Casardis

[WERElektro]

TL DR: Captin Vor does not have a coherent timeline. De need to stop adding bits randomly and sort out a coherent narrative. At current rate the game is going to be out for two years and we have not seen any sensible lore.

 

 

I don't even need to read further. this, this , this, this, this aaaaaand this.

They need to explain a lot of stuff.... or.... they should.

[Dalawantahr]

Vor did not die on 'The Call' trailer, if you watch till the end, he survived albeit cut in half.

[OniDax]

The trailer is not rectified through cloning, because we don't know whether these guys are recloned or not. OP has a point. This new Vor is the one that was killed in the Call. If he really needs the Janus Key to keep his body together, then it absolutely doesn't make sense to have him re appear intact on Tolstoj or Phobos.

 

And on the larger issue of lore: Stop giving DE credit for something they're not doing. You heard it in Devstream 30 - lore is created for the content. So someone comes up with some cool idea for new content first, and then the lore (read: dialogue) is created for that. There's no hidden lore that's waiting to be revealed, otherwise we'd have consistency. You saw it in the Xbox One trailer. An Aklato Prime shown simply because they thought it'd look cool. No, there is no overarching lore. They create some cool content, and then the lore is made per the new content.

 

Dalawantahr: Vor was killed in 'The Call' trailer. What we saw at the end is him being brought back to life by his key. Vor's Prize, what we're seeing now, is the follow up to that. Hopefully they replace Mercury and Phobos with some other/new bosses. That's all that's needed. Oh, well, if they let us play out The Call in the tutorial, then it'd all be in-game and make sense.

Edited June 13, 2014 by AntoineFlemming

[Joyfulmama]

Well time traveling vor wouldn't be to far fetched in my opinion. Vor's key is the Janus key. In ancient Roman religion and myth. Janus (Lat: Ianus, pronounced [ia nus]) is the god of beginnings and transitions, and thereby of gates, doors, passages, endings and time.    

That is enlightening new knowledge on the origin of the key's name o.o

[OniDax]

Pretty sure it's called the Janus key for the gates, doors, and passages relation, and not any time-travel relation. This Vor is clearly a follow up to the Call.

 

All I know is, I'd eventually like some toned down version of that as a weapon. It's like the Apple from the Assassin's Creed series.

Edited June 13, 2014 by AntoineFlemming

[DaftMeat]

Vor was dead the whole time and only the player could see him.

[Echowing]

Has DE ever said that the Call trailer was actually canon?  I figured that the in-game version (the tutorial) was what happened, and the tolstoj fight was the conclusion of that.  The trailer was just a cool animation.

[OniDax]

Has DE ever said that the Call trailer was actually canon?  I figured that the in-game version (the tutorial) was what happened, and the tolstoj fight was the conclusion of that.  The trailer was just a cool animation.

 

Um, that's the only place you see him cut in half, and now he's appeared up again, in half. So, his new appearance makes it canon. It really makes the other boss fights kind of not canon in a way, because those don't fit with this Vor. Unless there really are different Vors. If that's the case, then the Mercury Vor and the Phobos Vor are two different Vors.

Edited June 13, 2014 by AntoineFlemming

[Kaotyke]

I think its like this:

 

"The Call" Trailer showed that the NEW PLAYER/Tenno kills Vor.

 

Now, if we play the Tutorial, we see that we are DEFEATED by Vor, and we see Nyx, Frost and Ash doing a Big Damn Heroes Moment, but they probably didnt kill Vor, according to the trailer, the just awakened Tenno did, so we could say that he was able to escape.

 

The New Player comes and kills Vor in Mercury, wich makes what we saw in "The Call" trailer true to some extend.

 

We fight Corrupted Vor in the Void

 

Kril and Vor in Phobos are placeholders......... they MUST be

Edited June 13, 2014 by Kao-Snake

[AM-Bunny]

Couldn't this be easily fixed if Phobos Vor was replaced with a nerfed version of Void Vor? i.e. cut in half.

 

But yah, I think AntoineFlemming hit the nail on the head here. They're just pulling this stuff out of nowhere, so don't think too hard about it. I know this is difficult to do, since it's embarrassing how underdeveloped the lore is at this juncture.

[OniDax]

Vor is cut in half during the trailer, which is basically a version of the tutorial mission. So that's when he's killed, and re awoken. Mercury doesn't fit with the trailer because he's intact. Phobos doesn't make sense because he's alive and intact. So either Mercury and Phobos just don't fit, and are essentially both placeholders, or there are multiple Vors.

 

But yes, the most probable scenario is that the lore just isn't. And seems like they don't have a dedicated person making lore outside of the content that's released.

Edited June 13, 2014 by AntoineFlemming

[Dalawantahr]

Dalawantahr: Vor was killed in 'The Call' trailer. What we saw at the end is him being brought back to life by his key. Vor's Prize, what we're seeing now, is the follow up to that. Hopefully they replace Mercury and Phobos with some other/new bosses. That's all that's needed. Oh, well, if they let us play out The Call in the tutorial, then it'd all be in-game and make sense.

Very interesting.

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

Vor was dead the whole time and only the player could see him.

 

Lol.  This is true in some ways...

 

but my theory is that it's all because of...

 

[size=8]CLONES.[/size]

[MDRLOz]

And on the larger issue of lore: Stop giving DE credit for something they're not doing. You heard it in Devstream 30 - lore is created for the content. So someone comes up with some cool idea for new content first, and then the lore (read: dialogue) is created for that. There's no hidden lore that's waiting to be revealed, otherwise we'd have consistency.

 

Can i have a time stamp or rough guess where this is in the devstream. ( I will watch it all again if needed). I must have missed this because I would have gone bananas on the moon if I heard them say this. All my toys out of said pram style event.

 

DE have eluded to larger lore goals and have story lines waiting to happen. Queens, the board and the sentients are all example of these.

 

 

 

Lol.  This is true in some ways...

 

but my theory is that it's all because of...

 

CLONES.

 

Sadly no. DE have even released points explaining that each boss is unique and they are not clones. Sargas Ruk for example explained on twitter (WHY NOT IN GAME DE!) that Rukhas a larger tongue causing his speech problems but he did not let this hold him back and rose through the ranks desipe his handicap. They would not make an army of ruk clones with the same defect that all rise to through the ranks.

 

 

Though Grineer are clones everything to this point has pointed to the named ones being unique.

Edited June 13, 2014 by MDRLOz

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

-snip-

 

I did not know that...  I've always attributed us having 1000s of bosses to kill over and over again to clones.  (I am old school, before we had to kill Thela like 50 times to get Saryn, etc.)

 

In that case, there ARE in fact many plot holes.  Oh well..  I usually try not to think about it too much and just keep killing.  Don't know why we have to kill everything on the ships usually though...

[Cabadath5]

Nope he can't.They probably just reuse him because they are out of ideas.Same with infested salad 5.

 

Inb4 LEL CLONES.It's pretty clear that the grineer despite being clones have some degree of individuality.Or at least higher ranking ones do.

[Dualstar]

Well if we were to think of the Void in terms similar to the Warp, then yes corrupt Vor could very well be time travelling.

 

The best part is, we are basically collectively writing the lore surronding this so DE doesnt have to.

Edited June 13, 2014 by Dualstar

[locojuan]

rembember, we are playing as the game is developed. We need be patient and supportive. everything will come in place in its due time. We are living the construction of the game. if it was a house under construccion, we would expect to see a lot of things that dont make any sense. like a door standing there with no walls around it. its there for perspective and measuring. if it has a clear path through it and fits its purpose you take it away and put it back when the walls are finished.

Edited June 13, 2014 by locojuan