The Lanka Shouldn't Be A Reskinned Bow

[Falufa]

I agree with most of your suggestions, but, instead of buffing base crit damage from 1.5 to 2.0, how about with give charged shots the Acrid treatment?: 100% chance for electric proc, regardless of the type of damage it actually deals and independent of other possible procs.

 

It would be like the single-shot/marksman version of the Amprex, and would differentiate it from the bows and other snipers  (which should have their crit chances buffed to 40-50% to compete with bows).

[Psychosist]

Is this the Lanka or the Snipetron? Moi ish confuzeld.

They share the same model, if you weren't being sarcastic. That's another rework that needs to be done some other time.

 

I agree with most of your suggestions, but, instead of buffing base crit damage from 1.5 to 2.0, how about with give charged shots the Acrid treatment?: 100% chance for electric proc, regardless of the type of damage it actually deals and independent of other possible procs.

 

It would be like the single-shot/marksman version of the Amprex, and would differentiate it from the bows and other snipers  (which should have their crit chances buffed to 40-50% to compete with bows).

The Lanka needs all the damage it can get. Electric proc is a neat CC effect, but it's not something I would want to give up for stronger crits. I wouldn't mind a 30% Electric proc on top of a crit buff, though. 

[MageMeat]

Is this the Lanka or the Snipetron? Moi ish confuzeld.

Due to the removal of the Snipetron from the game, the devs decided it would be fine to give the model to the Lanka, since few people run around with the original or Vandal Snipetron.

 

I do though.

[DuWryght]

It would be the Cernos.... BRILLIANT!

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

Interesting. I've actually used lanka today, suddenly got an urge, counter-sniped Nef Anyo a couple of times. I feel like it could become really good with enough forma, but can't be bothered to forma it. And 60 mod points don't get you far. 50% chance to deal like 4000 damage. I'd love autocharge.

 

For now I put it back in it's cold dark grave  dusty spot in my inventory, with other weapons "to be forma'd when I finally can be arsed to do so".

[SIDESTRE4M]

I don't know why status is relevant on a weapon that is meant to destroy in one hit.

 

What bothers me the most is the max crit chance of 50%, because you desperately have to make the shots count, more than with any other weapon and then there still is a fifty/fifty chance of just screwing up.

 

Aside from that and considering the bows got a huge buff, I think it's time DE does something about it.

[Psychosist]

What bothers me the most is the max crit chance of 50%, because you desperately have to make the shots count, more than with any other weapon and then there still is a fifty/fifty chance of just screwing up.

I think all snipers in general need a crit chance buff because it's no fair only doing full damage half the time +1

[__Kanade__]

Well, I can my inside joke had no effect.

 

---

 

I want to see the Lanka get a new look on top of a needed buff to snipers in general, though something other than crit increase, otherwise it wouldn't feel like I'm using a sniper, it would feel like I'm using a bow and vice-versa.

 

I want to see it get a new look, I can't stand seeing 3 Snipetron/Lankas in my inventory even if one of them is reskinned with the Lotus design.

 

I see snipers as raw damage type weapons, not another critical this-feels-like-a-bow sniper. Lanka is supposed to be some sort of rail gun with a powerful charge behind it, with this, Lanka also needs innate punch through while keeping the chance to proc it's lightning status, that would at least keep it in line with bows which also have innate punch through.

 

Having every weapon changed to have high critical chance just isn't the answer, it doesn't give weapons much variety and also forces you to do the "standard" builds instead of having more freedom to make it how you want it instead of how it's supposed to be made. Some should do raw damage, others need to have high critical, others need to be balanced between the two.

 

 

The suggestions being made on te Supra is a good example, trying to give it more damage instead of just increasing critical chance to make it viable.

Edited July 4, 2014 by __Kanade__

[Psychosist]

Well, I can my inside joke had no effect.

 

---

 

I want to see the Lanka get a new look on top of a needed buff to snipers in general, though something other than crit increase, otherwise it wouldn't feel like I'm using a sniper, it would feel like I'm using a bow and vice-versa.

 

I want to see it get a new look, I can't stand seeing 3 Snipetron/Lankas in my inventory even if one of them is reskinned with the Lotus design.

 

I see snipers as raw damage type weapons, not another critical this-feels-like-a-bow sniper. Lanka is supposed to be some sort of rail gun with a powerful charge behind it, with this, Lanka also needs innate punch through while keeping the chance to proc it's lightning status, that would at least keep it in line with bows which also have innate punch through.

 

Having every weapon changed to have high critical chance just isn't the answer, it doesn't give weapons much variety and also forces you to do the "standard" builds instead of having more freedom to make it how you want it instead of how it's supposed to be made. Some should do raw damage, others need to have high critical, others need to be balanced between the two.

 

 

The suggestions being made on te Supra is a good example, trying to give it more damage instead of just increasing critical chance to make it viable.

The problem with the "raw damage" route is that you would need absurd amounts of base damage to make up for lack of crit stats. Bows for example can easily hit 880 base damage with just two crit mods, and if you want sniper rifles to pack a punch without crit mods, you'd need some extreme base damage to make up for that. For example, a hypothetical non-crit Lanka with 300 base damage would have two free mod slots since it wouldn't use crit mods. These two mods will most likely be taken up by two elements, so 300*2.8 = 840 base damage to compete with bows. In addition to this, bows get their godly damage from critical headshot multipliers. Headshots with a bow don't just do a typical x2 multiplier, but x4 simply because you critted as well. If Dread does 1000 damage on a noncrit, a crit would do 4400, and a crit headshot would actually do 16400 damage instead of 8800.

 

Non-critting headshots only yield a max of x2 damage, so the Lanka would still be far outpaced by bows, if we consider headshot viability.

 

~ ~ ~ 

 

The issue of being "forced" to run critical mods is an entirely separate issue with the mod system itself, with "necessary" mods like multishot and damage not innately being built into weapon progression, but that's not for this topic to discuss.

[RancidTurnip1603]

I don't know why status is relevant on a weapon that is meant to destroy in one hit.

 

What bothers me the most is the max crit chance of 50%, because you desperately have to make the shots count, more than with any other weapon and then there still is a fifty/fifty chance of just screwing up.

 

Aside from that and considering the bows got a huge buff, I think it's time DE does something about it.

 

Status is relevant if you're modding gas/electric damage, one well placed status proc and drop 5-6 enemies in a single shot from across the map. I enjoy doing this thoroughly.

 

Also, for the thread in general, the Lanka isn't a $&*&*#(%& bow, it's a difficult to use sniper (which are already being looked at for balance purposes). It has much higher zoom than bows and no bullet arc, it's difficult to use, but can be more effective in large tilesets. Though in the void it's only really good in Defenses and interceptions, but if I'm farming T4 keys in the Pluto interception mission it's actually an insanely good weapon to bring.

 

Sniping enemies before they can capture points, and eliminating entire groups of enemies from across the map are two things that the Lanka is exceptional at.

 

Really comparing it to a bow is not a fair comparison because bows and snipers are meant to fill very different roles. Comparing it to other snipers is much more fair, then you'll realize it's not that the Lanka is a bad weapon, it's that snipers in general need help.

Edited July 4, 2014 by RancidTurnip1603

[SIDESTRE4M]

Well, I can my inside joke had no effect.

 

---

 

I want to see the Lanka get a new look on top of a needed buff to snipers in general, though something other than crit increase, otherwise it wouldn't feel like I'm using a sniper, it would feel like I'm using a bow and vice-versa.

 

I want to see it get a new look, I can't stand seeing 3 Snipetron/Lankas in my inventory even if one of them is reskinned with the Lotus design.

 

I see snipers as raw damage type weapons, not another critical this-feels-like-a-bow sniper. Lanka is supposed to be some sort of rail gun with a powerful charge behind it, with this, Lanka also needs innate punch through while keeping the chance to proc it's lightning status, that would at least keep it in line with bows which also have innate punch through.

 

Having every weapon changed to have high critical chance just isn't the answer, it doesn't give weapons much variety and also forces you to do the "standard" builds instead of having more freedom to make it how you want it instead of how it's supposed to be made. Some should do raw damage, others need to have high critical, others need to be balanced between the two.

 

 

The suggestions being made on te Supra is a good example, trying to give it more damage instead of just increasing critical chance to make it viable.

Sry, I guess most active users don't have the Snipetron or the Vandal Version... and this non-existent problem.

 

If Snipers have so many disadvantages to use them, then they should have at least reliable damage. Either remove the crit-stuff and make it an elemental killer, or do it right so half of the carefully taken shots aren't for nothing.

 

Status is relevant if you're modding gas/electric damage, one well placed status proc and drop 5-6 enemies in a single shot. I enjoy doing this thoroughly.

I admit, that sounds reasonable. I don't know how I would cramp an extra gas combination in my builds, but if people want to do it, why not.

 

I don't share the opinion that Lanka needs a status chance buff, though.

[RancidTurnip1603]

Sry, I guess most active users don't have the Snipetron or the Vandal Version... and this non-existent problem.

 

If Snipers have so many disadvantages to use them, then they should have at least reliable damage. Either remove the crit-stuff and make it an elemental killer, or do it right so half of the carefully taken shots aren't for nothing.

 

This thread really should have been expanded on how to improve snipers in general rather than the Lanka in particular, because they all need it.

 

I admit, that sounds reasonable. I don't know how I would cramp an extra gas combination in my builds, but if people want to do it, why not.

 

I don't share the opinion that Lanka needs a status chance buff, though.

 

I wouldn't run it in T3-T4 voids, but I have a gas/electric status build on my Lanka that's wrecks Corpus and Infested anywhere on the solar map. Losing a little bit of damage isn't too bad when most of the damage is complete overkill to begin with.

 

I also agree, Lanka doesn't need a status buff, though it would make my build that much better, it needs something else.

Edited July 4, 2014 by RancidTurnip1603

[Psychosist]

This thread really should have been expanded on how to improve snipers in general rather than the Lanka in particular, because they all need it.

If I had made this into a general sniper buff thread, it'd be too long for the general public to care about. I think Lanka deserves highest priority due to its acquisition requirements and difficulty to polarize.

[Methanoid]

If I had made this into a general sniper buff thread, it'd be too long for the general public to care about. I think Lanka deserves highest priority due to its acquisition requirements and difficulty to polarize.

 

have each shot that strikes but obv doesnt kill the enemy produce a movement (not atk speed) slowdown effect, that could work well combined with punchthru setups.

 

reduce their crit greatly so crit builds arent mandatory and increase their base dmg to compensate, this way their big dmg dealers without the need for rng/crit, allowing for other varied mods to be used.

 

change their scopes to have various zoom levels (click rm = cycle thru various zoom levels, some rifles having more/less zoom levels than others).

 

just make sure they fire reasonably quickly (slow reloads are fine) and dont end up like the lanka which is terribly slow even using a max shred and speed trigger.

 

^ those would be my kind of sniperish ideas/changes to make them different to bows.

[Psychosist]

snip

Pure damage weapons will almost never reach the potential of crit weapons without some sort of crazy high base damage or firing rate (Boltor Prime). A crit weapon with x4.4 crit damage will do not just x8.8 damage on a headshot, but x17.6 damage due to the way crit mechanics currently work. That's over seventeen times the original base damage. No amount of Hellfire, Split Chambers, or Serrations will be able to reach that level of damage compared to the crit mods Point Strike + Vital Sense.

 

Dread (only crit mods):

 

Non-crit body shot - 200 damage

 

Non-crit head shot - 400 damage

 

Crit body shot  - 880 damage

 

Crit headshot - 3520 damage (not 1760 damage)

 

~ ~ ~ ~

 

Lanka:

 

Non-crit body shot: 250 damage

 

Non-crit head shot: 500 damage

 

Since we are assuming Lanka is a noncrit weapon, critical damage will not be accounted for. Do you see the power gap between a non-critical hit Lanka and a crit-modded Dread? How much would we have to amplify Lanka's base damage to get it to match? Double? Triple? You can probably do the math for that yourself (no sarcasm or exaggeration), but the point stands that crit weapons will outdamage raw damage weapons greatly.

[ZzVinniezZ]

i rather has better crit chance and crit damage with X-ray scope. the rest just...idk doesn't like much

[Methanoid]

thats why i suggested an increase base dmg to compensate for no crits.

[SIDESTRE4M]

Buff base crit to 50% and raise the multiplier a litte tiny bit. Lanka done.

(At least in my opinion. Somehow lately people seem to mistake my opinions for carved in stone orders)

Edited July 5, 2014 by SIDESTRE4M

[Psychosist]

thats why i suggested an increase base dmg to compensate for no crits.

But the question is by how much? 600 base damage? A thousand? You saw my post on page 2, right? Dread does 3500+ and Lanka only does 500. If you want to buff Lanka to six or seven hundred damage there would be a lot of outcry about its base damage being so high unranked. I think the use of crit mods is important for balancing so that it can't just get away with two free mod slots.

[Guest Shibboleet]

If you've seen any of the math in the OP, you'd find the Lanka only does a third of the Dread's damage half the time. We can either buff the Lanka to match the bows and make it worthy of an endgame weapon, or we can nerf the bows and cause a $%#!storm on the forums. I'd rather go with the buff.

Seeing how Xeqtr uses the Lanka for end game material already, we can assume that other weapons should be brought down to its potential. Not the other way around. I have a bad feeling that the Lanka will be buffed with the sniper changes, but I would disagree with it.

 

I do like your 'Farsight' idea though; It already feels like it has half of the Farsight mechanic (Innate punch through) from Perfect Dark.

Edited July 5, 2014 by Shibboleet

[Methanoid]

But the question is by how much? 600 base damage? A thousand? You saw my post on page 2, right? Dread does 3500+ and Lanka only does 500. If you want to buff Lanka to six or seven hundred damage there would be a lot of outcry about its base damage being so high unranked. I think the use of crit mods is important for balancing so that it can't just get away with two free mod slots.

in that case theres no escape, snipers are just rubbish bows, there has to be noticable differences or theres just no reason to have snipers at all.

 

imho yeah, bows should be rapid firing crit machines (which they are) and snipers slower firing high base dmg beasts.  (which they should be, i mean their high powered sniper rifles).

 

also imho bows should be borderline 100% crit, not well above 100%, bows should have "ok" dmg and a decent chance to crit for big numbers, and snipers left doing slower but consistent high damage with little chance to crit, they should be those things at the very minimum for there to be any chance of them being different.

[Agamemnon.]

I got an idea, Lanka Vandal anyone?

[_Fracture8]

Please for the love of RNGesus let this come true! <3

Take all my +1's, all of them

Edited July 5, 2014 by KilelrDrone492

[Psychosist]

Seeing how Xeqtr uses the Lanka for end game material already, we can assume that other weapons should be brought down to its potential. Not the other way around. I have a bad feeling that the Lanka will be buffed with the sniper changes, but I would disagree with it.

 

I do like your 'Farsight' idea though; It already feels like it has half of the Farsight mechanic (Innate punch through) from Perfect Dark.

Anyone can bring anything into endgame imo, just that some weapons do better than others. I've heard about Xeqtr and his accomplishments with his buddies, and that's great for him. I'm still not satisfied with the condition of the Lanka. If this is how it should perform it should be brought down to Mastery 3 or 4 considering the bows are around that stage and perform exponentially better than the Lanka.

 

Also +1 for the reference to Perfect Dark. The Farsight was an awesome weapon and it'd be sweet to have a little Farsight action in Warframe. [size=2]and if you noticed my username is based off of the Psychosis Gun in Perfect Dark as well teehee[/size]

 

in that case theres no escape, snipers are just rubbish bows, there has to be noticable differences or theres just no reason to have snipers at all.

 

imho yeah, bows should be rapid firing crit machines (which they are) and snipers slower firing high base dmg beasts.  (which they should be, i mean their high powered sniper rifles).

 

also imho bows should be borderline 100% crit, not well above 100%, bows should have "ok" dmg and a decent chance to crit for big numbers, and snipers left doing slower but consistent high damage with little chance to crit, they should be those things at the very minimum for there to be any chance of them being different.

I'm not asking the the Lanka to be a raw damage sniper, nor do I want to to stay as a crappy bow. I want to to be somewhere inbetween, something unique. Consistent damage with crits is the idea. The Lanka shouldn't be some godly weapon right out the box with hundreds of base damage. It's a balancing factor that you should absolutely install crit mods and use Forma to make it shine. I still disagree with the idea of stacking base damage instead of stacking crit damage, but hey that's just my opinion.

I got an idea, Lanka Vandal anyone?

I prefer color customization and the ability to keep my five Forma, thanks.

Edited July 5, 2014 by Psychosist

[Methanoid]

you want the lanka to have consistent damage with crit.......but thats a bow, which is the problem.