Sixty5 Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 (edited) To begin this is a topic I have been thinking about for awhile, I even had my question about it answered on the last devstream (yay) and it was confirmed that shotguns are getting a look at at some point soon. this topic is not about that. this topic is about why they need some love and what form that love can take. Skip to the last section/paragraph if this is TL:DR material, my suggestions sum my points up decently, but I'd like you to read the whole thing =3 Four score and seven years ago, way back in the days of U7 the shotguns ruled Warframe, with the Hek presiding over all. However those days are now gone, and shotguns are now the weakest type of weapon (going off of mod categories) and it is time for a few buffs. (I will say here that the Phage is exempt from all arguments here, it isn't a shotgun even if it uses shotgun mods and ammo) So what is wrong with them? To start with Shotguns lack a proper niche. They neither work well at dealing massive damage per hit or at dealing DPS, and even with that taken into consideration they require users to take far more risks for this lower reward. I think the best way to make my point here is to give you guys an example. This is the Tigris. It is a double barreled shotgun that is rather fun to use. In Scott's words, this thing should hit like a truck. Well now, let us see just how hard it hits. This is my Tigris, it has 6 forma in it. The mods pictured will give it the highest damage possible. Literally this is the strongest the Tigris can get. So let's see how much damage this thing does eh? Well 200 base damage with a 240% boost from damage mods gives us 680 base physical damage I get an additional +420% from my elemental mods taking the total per shot to 3536, not bad Finally if I factor in an additional 120% from Hells Chamber this takes us to 7779.2 damage per shot. Of course this isn't factoring in crits or procs, but right here I want to find the damage I can deal reliably here. So 7779.2 it is. This can be doubled to 15558.2 if you rapid fire it. Sounds strong. Now have a look at my Paris Prime No forma, and my serration isn't even maxed, but let's see how much it hits for per shot, it can hardly be better than a 6 forma shotgun that hits like a truck again 200 base damage, but with a +150% damage boost gives me 500 physical damage and then +180% from elementals gives us 1400 base damage, wow the Tigris is crapping on it. But now we need to factor in the paris Primes guaranteed crits. That is a 4.4x damage multiplier taking it to 6160 Finally with Split chamber giving an average +90% damage buff takes it to 11704 damage per shot. 1.5x that of a completely maxed out Tigris. And here is the real kicker, the Paris Prime will work at any range, whereas with damage falloff and the Tigris's spread (not helped by VS) unless you are point blank you will most likely NOT be doing your full amount of damage. Take into consideration that this is the most powerful shotgun in the game by a fairly large margin. In terms of per shot damage ANY shotgun is sub par compared to a bow, even if you have the shotgun completely maxed out. But why is this? To start with look at shotgun damage mods. +90%, +90% with +Spread, and +60% with +60% fire. That is three slots for a total of 240% extra base damage, as opposed to rifles that get 330% for two slots and pistols that get 286% for two slots. Three mod slots for less damage (slow clap) But what about the damage from blaze? Well here is some math to show you what happens to a weapons damage with each mod added Green boxes are base damage mods, yellow are elemental damage. I combined the damage from mod 2 and 3 for shotguns to make the math a bit easier. The numbers in the damage row show how much damage a weapon with 100 base damage would deal with that number of mods But as you can see there is a pretty big difference in how much damage your mods give you on shotguns. Put simply, shotgun mods are bad. The next problem is the falloff. This was a legitimate fix back in the day to stop Hek sniping, but nowadays it feels kinda redundant. Vicious spread actually accomplishes the same goal. Either you run it and lose the ability to shotgun snipe, or you run it with Tainted shell and lose out on damage and DPS OR you drop Vicious Spread altogether and gimp yourself out of even more damage. Basically the mod system has given us a means to reduce shotgun sniping without the need for damage falloff The final two issues with shotguns I'll go over together Status Shotgun status chance is stupid. Either all pellets proc the same thing or none do. A per pellet chance, in the same manner shotgun crit is calculated would be a lot nicer and would make status mods actually worth it on shotguns. You wouldn't even have to buff the chance. just split it up per pellet. Risk vs Reward Shotguns are typically a close range type of weapon. Things like the Boar prime require you to almost be in the enemies face to hit them with everything. And even then a guy with a Soma can do the same thing faster from a safe distance, some sort of system to reward getting in close with a shotgun needs to be in the game in order to make them feel special. What I would like to see done: 1) Falloff needs to go on true shotguns (the Brakk kinda needs it as a balance factor). Damage falloff adds little to the game when the presence of Vicious Spread acts as a regulator for sniping with these weapons. 2) Shotguns need to hit harder. Whether this is through buffs to either the weapons or the mods, or as I would prefer, a system that grants increased damage for the more pellets you hit an enemy with (say +5% for each additional pellet). Having the hardest hitting weapon in a category at its best outclassed by another weapon with a fairly average loadout should not happen. 3) Status per pellet. Even if they retained the same overall status chance this would be an improvement. It would actually give shotguns a pretty interesting niche, as well as making status a tad more real on them. Anyways, lemme know what you think in the comments. Arnie demands it of you, FOR THE GOOD OF ALL SHOTGUNS Edit: Fixed picture derp Edited July 14, 2014 by Sixty5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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