(PSN)kiddplay13 Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) Mods are going around locking Wall Run threads, you may be next. Edited July 22, 2014 by (PS4)kiddplay13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azawarau Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Mods are going around locking Wall Run threads, you may be next. Everything changed when [DE]Drew attacked... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[DE]Momaw Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 I'd much rather see systematic fixes to issues like this than the LDs chasing after and killing fires that get started by the arrival of new frames and their powers. Gives us more time to actually build cool new stuff and not spend all our time trying to retrofit stuff. Except if you subscribe to that approach, now you are forced to limit any frame powers you might want to make according to your age-old level-shaping assumption where you figured nobody would ever have any vertical mobility. Going back and fixing the levels to fully enclose the sanctioned play space fixes the problem for any and all future mobility abilities. It's just going to become a huge nasty pile of spaghetti and exceptions if you treat each power's mechanics individually rather than make them all respect the same boundaries. Plus there will always be some non-zero fraction of players whose entire goal of playing is to break the game and see what they can get away with. Removing infinite wall run doesn't stop them, they still have several frame abilities that do bad things and let them try and get out of the play space. What it DOES stop is people who were using the infinite wall run as a harmless entertainment to play the game within the rules of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)kiddplay13 Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) DE Drew said before locking Wall Run Post: " Even though some players enjoyed it, the infinite wall run was an unintentional bug and exploit. Locking this thread to keep that message clear. " SO WHAT THE HELL IS COPTERING?? Edited July 22, 2014 by (PS4)kiddplay13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)RicanPapi254 Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 I fully oppose this im very much glad that this bug was removed it allowed players to bypass the difficulty and skill required to get to hidden rooms in the void i understand completely what you are saying but the infinite wall run took time to due... and its not causing harm doing it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr1ples1xer Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) I will gladly pay them twice for a game without exploits, so narrow minded kids who think their wallet is everything like you can be kept FAR away from this beloved game. Oh please, I could be your father... Exploit shmexploit, it was part of the gameplay for a full year... I'm not gonna continue paying for something I don't agree with, thats just normal. The game is a business if they don't get money there is no game, only way to really voice your dissatisfaction is with your wallet. Lets see how it balances out when they keep removing tidbits of what makes this game so awesome. Edited July 22, 2014 by Tr1ples1xer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APBladeX Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 I'm just going to post this here since this thread is obviously warranting more open discussion rather than the one I recently started which was locked for no reason other than making a point. Since this thread is still open and has lots of opinions on each argument, I'll leave an excerpt from my original post from the locked thread if I have permission to do so: With the recent addition of U14, you may have noticed that infinite wall-running is no longer possible. Meanwhile, meleecoptering has been confirmed by DE to be a permanent method of travel. If so, why should infinite wall-running be removed? If we have the stamina, shouldn't we be able to access high places without being limited to warframes like Zephyr, Loki, and Valkyr? I thought Warframe was about choice. So, I am giving the community a choice in this matter to voice their opinions and influence DE's final outcome of this removal. I am personally on the side of To Be, so the following list may be biased. Feel free to include more reasons for these arguments in this thread to provide a stable flow of opinions from the community. Please consider this and remain respectful. Here's some reasoning to back up both sides of the argument: To Be: 1. Allowed players to reach high places, including secret Void rooms and ideal sniping locations. 2. Allowed players to freely move around the map. 3. Was nice addition to Warframe's parkour movement. Counterargument: If meleecoptering has been confirmed by DE to be a permanent method of movement, why should infinite wall-running be removed? It has great utility and allows players to strategically position themselves and support team gameplay from above, especially with snipers and bows and those players who prefer long-range gameplay. Not To Be: 1. Made no sense in terms of physics. 2. Gameplay breaking and a cheap method of movement, like meleecoptering. Counterargument: Please provide a respectful counterargument to the opposing side in this thread so I can edit the original post to provide a stable discussion from both sides to get a proper poll on this issue from the community for DE's viewing. Poll link: http://strawpoll.me/2171158 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonehenge17 Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Yes, just as the wallrun slingshot was a bug turned feature because it was cool and not game breaking per se (its current absence is a bug as we already stated). Infinite wallruns up out of level bounds is game breaking and it has no positive gameplay impact. Hence its removal. I seriously can't understand how the infinite wall running is game breaking. I see very few negatives. One being elitist players that believe you should need skill to get to chests that give no special loot or achievement what so ever. You can defeat wall run with ledges so if you want to eventually create an achievement then you can rather easily. I would say it is nearly a pure positive to gameplay from the fact that most players enjoy the ability to run up a wall and have fun maneuvering around the terrain without much issue. (See coptering) It is not like infinite wall running will stop you from getting shot by corpus or grineer. This mechanic whether exploit or not is and has been an essential part of the game for players for a long time much like coptoring. It is purely a movement/parkour mechanic. So please explain to us how it breaks the game and has no positive to gameplay. Hell coptering is more game breaking in my opinion as you can actually slide attach through mobs/ laser grids / energy traps you name it, but infinite wall run is issue eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shut Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO haha why remove fun guys ?? whyyy ?? parkour makes the game, add it don't remove it. Laughed at "parkour makes the game" (in response to Karp's post about how the infinite wallrun glitch was being fixed). Infinite wallrun bugs are not parkour. They are not intended, they are not considered in map design, and (believe it or not) they do not require any skill in any way. You're a ninja. Jump from wall to wall. If a mushroom-stomping plumber can do it, you can too. What I want to see is some more control over our wallruns-- for example, allowing us to choose the direction that we want to jump in after leaving a wall, similar to Mirror's Edge (or any parkour-using game, for that matter). Our current system restricts us to a single direction for each of the horizontal and vertical walljumps, preventing any form of true mobility that isn't "GOTTA GO FAST IN A STRAIGHT LINE" (wall-slinging). I agree with everyone in this thread that this game needs more parkour, and not less. I disagree with nearly everyone in this thread regarding the definition of "parkour". Glitching is not parkour, and a game that relies on glitching for mobility is never going to get a good review. Edited July 22, 2014 by SortaRandom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)kiddplay13 Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Laughed at "parkour makes the game" (in response to Karp's post about how the infinite wallrun glitch was being fixed). Infinite wallrun bugs are not parkour. They are not intended, they are not considered in map design, and (believe it or not) they do not require any skill in any way. You're a ninja. Jump from wall to wall. If a mushroom-stomping plumber can do it, you can too. What I want to see is some more control over our wallruns-- for example, allowing us to choose the direction that we want to jump in after leaving a wall (whereas we're currently restricted to a single direction for each of the horizontal and vertical walljumps, preventing any form of true mobility that isn't "GOTTA GO FAST IN A STRAIGHT LINE"). I agree with everyone in this thread that this game needs more parkour, and not less. I disagree with nearly everyone in this thread regarding the definition of "parkour". Glitching is not parkour. Remove coptering also and we'll be quiet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Un1337ninj4 Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) Reading this... Do I see this, do I really see the... It can't be... How the HELL AM I SEEING THE WARFRAME COMMUNITY BEING A BUNCH OF ENTITLED BRATS!? Honestly, yes, I used the bug, but I'm not strongly impacted by it's removal. So long as they polish/rework the parkour system in the future (which is confirmed a long time ago), then I'm not too concerned about it. Everything about U14 has been another reason for me to keep playing, hell I'm glad my Kubrow needs another set of vials every 12 days. 1 run on Sechura every 2 days gets me that easy and gives me a reason to play this game. (My Kubrow just ate it's third Forma infact.) Edited July 22, 2014 by Un1337ninj4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Currystador Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) The effort of going through ALL levels, a great many of which were built before this exploit made it into the game, versus fixing the exploit. I know which decision any dev will go for here. There is not a single instance in this game from level design side where this exploit was used as primary or secondary pathing tool. We do have instances where the slingshot wallrun is used for optional, secondary paths for example this is why that one will come back once we isolated the fix for its current absence. But isn't coptering doing just that? You can bypass entire segments of the mission, (aka skipping most of the enemies). But coptering is an official thing. So why is the coptering exploit official, while the wallrunning exploit isn't aha. yay! sorry what? Why is that a good thing? Edited July 22, 2014 by Currystador Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr1ples1xer Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Laughed at "parkour makes the game" (in response to Karp's post about how the infinite wallrun glitch was being fixed). Infinite wallrun bugs are not parkour. They are not intended, they are not considered in map design, and (believe it or not) they do not require any skill in any way. You're a ninja. Jump from wall to wall. If a mushroom-stomping plumber can do it, you can too. What I want to see is some more control over our wallruns-- for example, allowing us to choose the direction that we want to jump in after leaving a wall, similar to Mirror's Edge (or any parkour-using game, for that matter). Our current system restricts us to a single direction for each of the horizontal and vertical walljumps, preventing any form of true mobility that isn't "GOTTA GO FAST IN A STRAIGHT LINE" (wall-slinging). I agree with everyone in this thread that this game needs more parkour, and not less. I disagree with nearly everyone in this thread regarding the definition of "parkour". Glitching is not parkour, and a game that relies on glitching for mobility is never going to get a good review. I can wallrun in one direction and sling in the opposite (or any direction for that matter) but it is no easy feat. Remove coptering also and we'll be quiet. Remove coptering and this game is dead to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex9-3-9 Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 my endgame was to do the infinite wallrun and just look around not exploiting the actual mission. now after more than 1300 hours i shall quit when im finished with the kubrow business, Forever.And 3 of my friends actually stopped playing since u14 and the $&*&*#(%& fixes came out. conclusion: Do not touch what we love and enjoy. btw remove coptering i like that too. thank you very much for making most of your tennos angry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnat6 Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Remove coptering also and we'll be quiet. As much as I like coptering I have to agree with this either all exploits are fine or none of them are cherry picking through them and saying some are fine and some are not just makes you look bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)kiddplay13 Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Reading this... Do I see this, do I really see the... It can't be... How the HELL AM I SEEING THE WARFRAME COMMUNITY BEING A BUNCH OF ENTITLED BRATS!? Honestly, yes, I used the bug, but I'm not strongly impacted by it's removal. So long as they polish/rework the parkour system in the future (which is confirmed a long time ago), then I'm not too concerned about it. Everything about U14 has been another reason for me to keep playing, hell I'm glad my Kubrow needs another set of vials every 12 days. 1 run on Sechura every 2 days gets me that easy and gives me a reason to play this game. (My Kubrow just ate it's third Forma infact.) People did the same exact thing when Coptering was in danger of being removed. We have as much as a right as them. And calling people brats because they're standing up for what they believe in is very childish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shut Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Remove coptering also and we'll be quiet. Coptering is a bit iffy, honestly. I'm personally all for it being removed for immersion-breaking reasons (mostly resolved with U13), but since the devs are the ones calling the shots here (and since it's an official feature as of U13), I don't see that happening at all. The problem with crazy horizontal mobility isn't so much that it's possible in the first place, it's that the people who can't do it (due to lack of experience or the presence of a heavy melee weapon) are completely left in the dust. You can't exactly get into many unfair, unintended locations with Coptering; the main problem with coptering is separation from teammates (and the fact that there is very little reason for teams to stick together, so players never feel as though coptering is unsuitable for their situation). I'm not liking the wall-slinging thing, though. While it shares basically the same role with coptering, which isn't too much of a bad thing, we can't make wallruns more maneuverable (e.g. choosing the direction of your jumps) while it exists. With one-direction-only wall-slinging in the game, the only reason for it to exist is to stack with coptering for (read: situational) maximum overdrive speed... but with the ability to aim the direction of the wall leap (minus slinging), it can be combined with coptering so much more creatively and effectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheInfiniteDoom Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Yes, just as the wallrun slingshot was a bug turned feature because it was cool and not game breaking per se (its current absence is a bug as we already stated). Infinite wallruns up out of level bounds is game breaking and it has no positive gameplay impact. Hence its removal. My question is, and always has been: Why wallrun slingshot? It is literally the biggest, most glaring flaw with the entire parkour system. Every single time it's brought up, it's described as a means of opening up alternate paths through certain tiles, but that is entirely not the case. In the Grineer Lava room, you only have to wallrun two inches on the first wall to catapult yourself across the entire room at light speed. It's the same way with the Grineer Galleon "pit room". You don't wallrun on the right wall, then jump across to the left. You wallrun a very short distance, and then your character is booted off the wall, across the room, and into a perpendicular wall. The only other tile I can think of where this system can be used is the Corpus outdoor "cliffs" tile. In a couple places, players can attempt to catapult their way across, but nobody ever does. Instead, they run as far as they can on foot, jumpkick, and then copter across. Not only is it faster, but it's more reliable. There's no way to aim the slingshot, it always kicks you off at some weird 45 degree angle that is all but useless unless the tileset itself has been carefully constructed to create a path. This bugs me to no end, because it completely undermines what a parkour system is. Warframe doesn't allow players to create their own paths or move in the way they want to. Warframe offers a very strict linear path, navigated with a combination of butt-sliding and coptering. There are literally zero instances of players chaining wallruns into melee combos, using Wallruns to creatively move through a tile, or taking alternate paths through a level via the parkour system. What exists is one path, with occasional instances where players can go left and "walk" (read: zorencopter) through a tile, or keep headed straight and instead catapult themselves to the other end of the room. I've played this game for hundreds and hundreds of hours, and I can't recall a single instance of someone using wallruns outside of the above tiles on purpose. It's not just an accident, it's a nuisance. All you're trying to do is run up a wall to reach a buddy on the ledge above, but instead of reading "up", the game reads "left" and suddenly you're launched 100 miles away from your buddy and he bleeds to death. Even if you get the wallrun to register, you still have to wait as your character slowly ascends the wall and agonizingly grips and flips on the ledge, mere inches from the person you're trying to save. Make no mistake, I love Warframe. It just irks me that a system that is so integral to gameplay (movement) has been left glitchy, slow and awkward as a feature. That's not a feature. Players don't like wallrun slingshot. Players don't use wallrun slingshot. We put up with wallrun slingshot. Veteran players are resigned to this "parkour" system. Whatever's on the books right now, whatever's planned for the next major update, please put that on hold. Warframe needs Movement 2.0, I beg of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)iBoiz Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 So Warframe is no longer a game that can use word "Ninja" because all real ninjas can wall run Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shut Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 People did the same exact thing when Coptering was in danger of being removed. We have as much as a right as them. And calling people brats because they're standing up for what they believe in is very childish. Read through the first page. Players in disagreement with the devs is obviously part of the whole development process, but honestly, I cannot find better words to describe the shameful posts on the first page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shut Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 So Warframe is no longer a game that can use word "Ninja" because all real ninjas can wall run and magnetically stick to walls for infinite amounts of time after running out of stamina Fixed. We totes aren't ninja anymore. /s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZodiacShinryu Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 I feel like most of you people are just pulling out words and not understanding why. Does anyone remember WHY coptering stayed? No? But you're going to use it as an argument? Funny. DE stated that coptering was an exploit and changed it. Coptering was an unintentional bug that gave tons of mobility on ALL weapons. What did they change? They made that movement controllable on their side. Not all weapons now can copter efficiently to a point if you want to really copter like it was before you have to pick certain weapons. Now I don't particularly like coptering so I don't really care if DE removes it but if were going to be pulling out arguments please use them correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)kiddplay13 Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Coptering is a bit iffy, honestly. I'm personally all for it being removed for immersion-breaking reasons (mostly resolved with U13), but since the devs are the ones calling the shots here (and since it's an official feature as of U13), I don't see that happening at all. The problem with crazy horizontal mobility isn't so much that it's possible in the first place, it's that the people who can't do it (due to lack of experience or the presence of a heavy melee weapon) are completely left in the dust. You can't exactly get into many unfair, unintended locations with Coptering; the main problem with coptering is separation from teammates (and the fact that there is very little reason for teams to stick together, so players never feel as though coptering is unsuitable for their situation). I'm not liking the wall-slinging thing, though. While it shares basically the same role with coptering, which isn't too much of a bad thing, we can't make wallruns more maneuverable (e.g. choosing the direction of your jumps) while it exists. With one-direction-only wall-slinging in the game, the only reason for it to exist is to stack with coptering for (read: situational) maximum overdrive speed... but with the ability to aim the direction of the wall leap (minus slinging), it can be combined with coptering so much more creatively and effectively. All this is doing is making them despicable hypocrites who pick and choose their 'exploits'. What exactly did the glitch hurt??? Don't say the ODD pillars because there's still multiple ways to get up there. Devs stated it explioted mission objectives... what objectives?????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Alphapsykongaroo Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 alot of mankinds greatist inventions started from happy accidents. so glad to hear wall slingshot and coptering is here to stay! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr1ples1xer Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 My question is, and always has been: Why wallrun slingshot? WHY ? thats funny because : That slingshot is THE thing that got me hooked on this game, to me it is THE BEST feature of the game, I am dead serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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