AlphaHorseman Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 (edited) Imagine it this way. If they do enact an Auction House, then everyone will be able to post their items and their prices. We would then be able to get our items quickly (if the auction house is actually efficient) because there'd be an abundance of each item that we're looking for in the first few weeks. Now, to see it from a buyers point of view, its good because you'll be able to get the items you want quickly and cheaply. The downside of this would be that buyers wouldn't get the experience of farming the parts, and this becomes even more so a Pay to Win scenario. You'd get the best gear for cheap, when new players might not even know the mechanics of the game, or are just starting to understand the inner-workings of WarFrame. You really want a fresh player with a Boltor Prime and Prime Warframes when they don't even know how to use them? They'd jump in the match high powered, everyone expecting them to be able to hold their own in a fight, and when they start dying every five minutes you realize "oh, this is just one of those players with plat who don't even know what transmuting is". Now think of this from a sellers point of view. The Supply in-game would become so high for every item that you'd be forced to lower prices to an unheard of amount. As Pablo said in the Devstream, give it a couple of weeks or months, and everything in-game would be worth 5p or less, no matter the rarity, usefulness, or purpose. Not only is all your merchandise worth next-to-nothing now, but you've got so much supply that people don't even go into the Void anymore to farm the parts BECAUSE there's so much of it. Not only that, you'd have so much of one item priced at the same, that buyers would just have to click on the first name that comes up on the list of players listing a certain item, and press buy because it'll either be 5p or less. This now becomes a game of "who can post the fastest", not unlike what we already have now. You'd list your stuff, yes, but you'd also have to wait, and wait, and wait as the list of sellers goes haywire with all the same or lower prices of 5p, and hope to High Heaven that someone clicks on your name at random, or you're at the top of the list. The problems of an Auction House continue, and changing from a Trading Channel to an Auction House isn't going to solve the problems of trading, the problems will only morph into a different set of problems. An improved Trading Channel is a better option. Remember that we were all rooting for the new UI and it's simplicity and style, and when U14 launched it was so riddled with problems that the Forums erupted with complaints, problems, and serious anger posts. The Devs were forced to post Hotfix after Hotfix to even make the game viable again for a large number of players. The new UI is flashy and nice, don't get me wrong, but the introduction of a whole new UI wrought forth a massive slew of problems. You really want Trading to have another catastrophe like how U14 UI was? If they improved on the old Star Chart, we'd have less complaints, a better look, and still have great functionality. Same thing with Trading, if they'd only improve on the Trade Channel, then we'd have more functionality, less complaints, maybe even a better look, and not have to relearn something all over again. Obviously I'm against an Auction House, but this Topic is for us to discuss the Pros and Cons. So feel free to express your opinions with constructive feedback. I await your responses. Edited August 11, 2014 by AlphaHorseman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)IIIDevoidIII Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Yes! I hate the idea of an auction house. Trade now is 'careful', and I like it that way. An improvement to the channel and simplicity would be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArkhamBatz Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 People are just greedy so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaugahn Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 A way to do asynchronous trading would be excellent though. It doesn't have to be an auction house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letter13 Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 The reason I support the idea of an auction house is that you can enforce a level of security with it. You guarantee that you won't get scammed, you can have instant transactions--possibly even while players are offline. It would be possible to even make a "security deposit" that you pay to list high-profile items (like kubrow imprints, primed chamber, super rare mods, etc) that you get back if the auction times out with 0 bids or if/when the item sells (and if you withdraw the item from the auction before the auction completes you lose the security deposit). As it stands it's already extremely easy to go to trading chat and say "WTB mod X/Y/Z, PM offer" and you get swamped with offers, some are way lower than others, and it's already very easy to just buy stuff this way... except there's no security of an auction house. But yeah, the biggest reason I support an auction house is trade security; it becomes possible to prevent scammers which are currently running rampant with the existing "verbal agreement" system. Also I think the term "Auction House" is a broad statement for what's essentially Trading 2.0 with a sort of "global listing" of items that people want to sell, buy or auction off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoneBrigand Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Do you have any specific ideas on how the devs could improve the trade without it being an auction house? I like the idea of an auction house, but I (and others probably) would be satisfied with a revamped trade channel, if it was good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaHorseman Posted August 11, 2014 Author Share Posted August 11, 2014 A way to do asynchronous trading would be excellent though. It doesn't have to be an auction house. True, I was thinking of an improved Trading Channel, not an entire shift to a new system, just keep our foundation and build upon it. I hope this thread sparks conversation on what that could be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)IIIDevoidIII Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 For revamping, if possible, we need to be able to trade with other players without inviting them to a dojo. This is the biggest issue players seem to have. Also, perhaps we can have a trade subsection for buy and sell? If not, hide posts containing keywords, even if that isn't perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrphanMaker Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 (edited) Nope, I love the idea of an auction house. It will improve the warframe economy. Who know it may be the beginning of long term gameplay with some pvp. If the DE can pull of the auction house correctly this may become one of the funnest game ever made (even thou it is already one of the funnest games ever made). The trade house will expand upon the warframe economy. It will make it easier to trade, and give the game a better immersion feel when trading. I would love to put up stuff for auction and watch the price soar. I also would like to competitively bid against others for mods (which we already do anyways). Last this will give player a better idea of how much stuff is worth. Edited August 11, 2014 by OrphanMaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doommarine654 Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 an auction house wont do any more harm then what trading already has started, and as it stands, the game still isnt pay to win. most of the high end stuff still needs to be found and most players are still grinding the things they can find to trade off to get the stuff they need to get the stuff they cant find with RNG.the auction house will make it ten times easier to filter out what you are looking for,or you can set buy offers with your listed price you want to pay. the auction house system is just a glorified trade system that just remove the player to player interaction that secures your trades in a manner that you know what you are buying and know exactly how much your pay for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dtexas Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 (edited) The reason I support the idea of an auction house is that you can enforce a level of security with it. You guarantee that you won't get scammed, you can have instant transactions--possibly even while players are offline. It would be possible to even make a "security deposit" that you pay to list high-profile items (like kubrow imprints, primed chamber, super rare mods, etc) that you get back if the auction times out with 0 bids or if/when the item sells (and if you withdraw the item from the auction before the auction completes you lose the security deposit). As it stands it's already extremely easy to go to trading chat and say "WTB mod X/Y/Z, PM offer" and you get swamped with offers, some are way lower than others, and it's already very easy to just buy stuff this way... except there's no security of an auction house. But yeah, the biggest reason I support an auction house is trade security; it becomes possible to prevent scammers which are currently running rampant with the existing "verbal agreement" system. I think an auction house with a bidding system is a bad way to go and would make trading worse than it already is. However, a system where people could post a message saying "Selling [item] for [price]" or "Buying [item] for [price]" is a much better way to go. There would be the option to buy it right then and there if your interested. If you don't like the price you can try to find a cheaper one or contact the person to negotiate the price. Although, im still against it either way. But a bidding system is a bad idea. Edited August 11, 2014 by Dtexas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClockworkSpectre Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 (edited) I agree with the OP. I have played enough MMOs to see how auction houses/market boards end up. It will just be a bunch of people undercutting the crap out of each other and spamming the AH with parts. Right now it takes effort to make trades and I like it that way, it keeps the market from going out of control. As far as the security factor that Letter13 brought up, that is the repsonsibilty of the people involved in the trade. If you are going to trade you should take on the risk. All you have to do is read posts, talk to people/clan members, ask questions and pay attention and you will be fine. An auction house would be nothing but bad news for this game. Edit: Forgot one of the other points. That newer players with platinum shouldn't be buying up prime pieces at cheap prices right off the bat. The idea of trading was nice when you get stuck farming something that just won't drop for you, but it needs to remain a limited feature of the game to preserve what the game is. Edited August 11, 2014 by ClockworkSpectre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sni7ch Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 (edited) I would prefer a steam market-like system than a bidding auction house. Edit: I am not talking about using Steam Market. I am talking about a system that functions in a similar manner. Edited August 11, 2014 by Sni7ch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaHorseman Posted August 11, 2014 Author Share Posted August 11, 2014 The reason I support the idea of an auction house is that you can enforce a level of security with it. You guarantee that you won't get scammed, you can have instant transactions--possibly even while players are offline. It would be possible to even make a "security deposit" that you pay to list high-profile items (like kubrow imprints, primed chamber, super rare mods, etc) that you get back if the auction times out with 0 bids or if/when the item sells (and if you withdraw the item from the auction before the auction completes you lose the security deposit). As it stands it's already extremely easy to go to trading chat and say "WTB mod X/Y/Z, PM offer" and you get swamped with offers, some are way lower than others, and it's already very easy to just buy stuff this way... except there's no security of an auction house. But yeah, the biggest reason I support an auction house is trade security; it becomes possible to prevent scammers which are currently running rampant with the existing "verbal agreement" system. Ah yes, I've heard tell of the Scammers roaming the Trade Channel. Haven't encountered one myself, thank High Heaven, but it's a valid point. Maybe a program where, when entering Trade, if a player would want to post up an item, the program would search the players inventory to ensure that the item that they're posting is actually in their inventory to sell. And, when entering a Dojo Trading Post to trade, the buyer/seller could input the items they want from the other player, or the amount of platinum agreed upon, and the trade could only be completed if the specified items were allotted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RahuHordika Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Yes! I hate the idea of an auction house. Trade now is 'careful', and I like it that way. An improvement to the channel and simplicity would be good. Yeaahh, no. Please explain what you mean by 'careful' trading. Also while I am intiferent to whether it's an auction house or a trading system trade cannel should be only for those who want to work out deals; no one, and I repeat no one should be forced to use that horrid mess as the only method of trading. The only way it would be made somewhat acceptable is to make it separate from main chat, hek not making it a chat at all, or revamping the chat system entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaHorseman Posted August 11, 2014 Author Share Posted August 11, 2014 Nope, I love the idea of an auction house. It will improve the warframe economy. Who know it may be the beginning of long term gameplay with some pvp. If the DE can pull of the auction house correctly this may become one of the funnest game ever made (even thou it is already one of the funnest games ever made). The trade house will expand upon the warframe economy. It will make it easier to trade, and give the game a better immersion feel when trading. I would love to put up stuff for auction and watch the price soar. I also would like to competitively bid against others for mods (which we already do anyways). Last this will give player a better idea of how much stuff is worth. Firstly, I'd like to ask, how would this improve the WarFrame Economy? And, if you've read my post thoroughly, you'd notice that the Price for these Items would drop due to the high Supply, high end items wouldn't be as valuable as they are now because there'd be so much of it in the Auction House. And if you're talking about immersion, remember that we had to sacrifice functionality of the old UI for the Immersion of the new UI, what's to counter this type of setback on the new Auction House system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrphanMaker Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 I would prefer a steam market place than a bidding auction house. Everyone don't use steam. I have never used steam and will probably never use steam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)IIIDevoidIII Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Everyone don't use steam. I have never used steam and will probably never use steam. He meant it as a system to use for Warframe's trading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaHorseman Posted August 11, 2014 Author Share Posted August 11, 2014 an auction house wont do any more harm then what trading already has started, and as it stands, the game still isnt pay to win. most of the high end stuff still needs to be found and most players are still grinding the things they can find to trade off to get the stuff they need to get the stuff they cant find with RNG. the auction house will make it ten times easier to filter out what you are looking for,or you can set buy offers with your listed price you want to pay. the auction house system is just a glorified trade system that just remove the player to player interaction that secures your trades in a manner that you know what you are buying and know exactly how much your pay for it. That's the thing though, the Farming aspect is done by dedicated players or long time players, or sellers. The introduction of an Auction House in any other MMO I've seen has only displayed players undercutting their opponents prices severely and spammed chat of sellers selling parts. New players incoming would only have to have plat on-hand, or buy plat, and they'd be able to get the best gear in-game at extremely low prices. They'd get high end gear and not really know the mechanics of using it. Maybe a Hybrid or improved Trade Channel system could be interacted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrphanMaker Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 He meant it as a system to use for Warframe's trading. I know, but the point is the trading system needs to be more in game and not something external. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yezzik Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 You really want a fresh player with a Boltor Prime and Prime Warframes when they don't even know how to use them? Solution: XP lock Prime items. You can get the parts, but you just can't craft or use the end result until you've reached a high enough Mastery rank (High enough that you'll need to max out your starters, Market and research gear to reach that level). And yes, I'm also for XP-locking Prime items acquired from Prime Access or the Founder packages as a result. As for the effects an AH will have on the economy itself, it won't ruin it like you claim it will. Only the common stuff will end up flatlining at 1p. I've played World of Warcraft, and during that time I've used the AH primarily to acquire pets and mounts. Droprates alone ensured prices remained roughly even as nobody wanted to get stiffed on the return they expected from their investment of time and energy in acquiring a particular pet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sekushiiandee Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 i would also like to add that any ideas of an auction house will lead to further talks of taxes platinum taxes to be exact the only ways to make sure people dont troll or undercut others on purpose is to impose taxes that will cripple anyone who tries to undermine anyone else.....but that also leads to issues because now high plat items will cost players more.... word of mouth trading avoids these taxes and only taxes you on credits (which i believe is perfect) i believe that the in game, word of mouth, market driven, changing prices, chaos of trading channel is perfect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurrumitsumi Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 your point of new players with platinum getting fancy things even though there new players in invalad, in your scenario.. if they have platinum they can use the current system to get that same things anyway, but in actuality in both situations there is now and should be if this is ever made a mastery rank requiered to use it, ie: you have to be rank 3 to trade and as for the market going down i dont see it as a bad thing, if sellers keep lowerin there prices then the market will keep going down, if they stay true to there price they ask for now then it wont decline as much.. in a perfect world there are no problems, but there are also no humans -kurru since there are people out there to cause problems.. there will be problems, and of coarse when new content is added it will have bugs, its part of the game world as we know it and always will be untill we create the perfect game testing AI which will at first have bugs itself creating more bugs and so on.. an auction house would creat a safe enviorment for the trading of in game content from one player to annother, no scams (unless you count what some people ask for mods now a days lol) no rude comments when you toss out a price that is too low, and no trying to keep up with the 50000 posts per second when your looking for something this will be a good thing, let it happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrphanMaker Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 That's the thing though, the Farming aspect is done by dedicated players or long time players, or sellers. The introduction of an Auction House in any other MMO I've seen has only displayed players undercutting their opponents prices severely and spammed chat of sellers selling parts. New players incoming would only have to have plat on-hand, or buy plat, and they'd be able to get the best gear in-game at extremely low prices. They'd get high end gear and not really know the mechanics of using it. Maybe a Hybrid or improved Trade Channel system could be interacted? This is from an advent farmer, whom farm to sell, "we already get undercut!" I work hard for bp but always have some noob trying to buy something from me for less than what it is worth. I just tell them them no and bug off! The auction system will allow me to farm a boltor prime bp and put it up for auction for 35p then leave it, come back the next day and "look I have 35p!" This system would be great because it would limit how high mods and bp can be sold for and it will give all players, buy and seller, an accurate idea of how much a mod or bp is worth. If I try to sell a mod for more than what its worth people simply will not buy it. If I try to sell something for less than what its worth people will bump the price up to the "buy now price" or to its true value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hueminator Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Auction house among the big clan members? or Auction house among 3 small clans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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