Health Pickups...kind Of Pointless?

[[DE]Momaw]

The amount of health you pick up per orb, relative the number of orbs you can find and how many you would actually need to restore your health to any real degree, seems completely out of whack.  The occasional red orb is okay for topping off from the occasional bleed proc, but when you take HUNDREDS of health damage... it doesn't work.  Nekros is the only frame that can produce health orbs in that kind of quantity. Oberon can make orbs but he has a self heal which- weak as it is- is still more efficient (you would need to slam about 20 enemies to get as much health as a single cast of Renewal would give..to your entire team...for less energy).

 

 

So basically I'm thinking that health orbs need a buff.  Two possible routes?

 

a.)  Health orb restores a percentage of your max health (20%?) rather than a flat value making them more relevant.

 

b.) Health orb immediately restores 20 health as per current, but it also starts health regeneration which will continue until you take health damage (similar to, and stacks with, Rejuvanation aura).

 

Option A makes them better for healing during combat, while option B makes them better for healing between engagements.  Discuss?

[sp4rtan148]

I guess thats what large health restores are for...

[Renegade343]

I have another suggestion to improve on it, if you like to hear it. 

[Tsukinoki]

I personally like option A better because it would keep them valuable during engagements, especially defense where they have a chance of piling up a bit, and you know that regardless of frame it will only take you 5 orbs to go from 1 hp to full.
And it would keep it relevent regardless of frame.
Because while my Loki and Mag get a somewhat decent amount of healing (about 10% of their health), Rhino, Valkyr and Ash get next to nothing.  I would like being able to see a noticeable health gain when I pick them up as Ash or Zephyr compared to what they are now.

[Macdermott]

I like the regeneration idea. 

[DSpite]

I have another suggestion to improve on it, if you like to hear it. 

 

Either just give a TL;DR or be less cryptic. We all know you have mega-threads of "fixes". 

 

We already have Health Restores. Kind of pointless to turn this game into more Diablo and "Health Drops" when we already have "health potions" - which is ALREADY bad enough - on a hotkey, or mapped to a mouse button, and we have Auras, and we have melee mods that steal health.

 

I think we have enough options. How invulnerable do you want to be exactly?

[Renegade343]

Either just give a TL;DR or be less cryptic. We all know you have mega-threads of "fixes". 

Apparently most of the members here do not like self-promoting without asking if anyone wants it first. 

 

I think we have enough options. How invulnerable do you want to be exactly?

At least make the health orbs be a bit more useful through healing through percentage of maximum health if it heals more than a static value. 

[HitPointPredator]

Between the two options given, I would go with A.

[PeanutMonster]

Health Orbs are indeed pretty useless at the moment. Changing the amount of health restored per orb would be a nice way of ''fixing'' this. Each orb restoring 20% of health sounds nice.

 

Either just give a TL;DR or be less cryptic. We all know you have mega-threads of "fixes". 

 

Apparently most of the members here do not like self-promoting without asking if anyone wants it first. 

 

I believe that promoting threads without permission of the author of this thread is now against the forum rules as well. You did right asking if we wanted to hear your idea.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/286054-psa-warning-points-20-code-of-conduct/

[0Pinger]

Either just give a TL;DR or be less cryptic. We all know you have mega-threads of "fixes". 

 

We already have Health Restores. Kind of pointless to turn this game into more Diablo and "Health Drops" when we already have "health potions" - which is ALREADY bad enough - on a hotkey, or mapped to a mouse button, and we have Auras, and we have melee mods that steal health.

 

I think we have enough options. How invulnerable do you want to be exactly?

 

Yeah right, stand there taking more damage for 20 seconds and more than likely alone as you team pushes on in a fast moving game.

 

As for aura's seriously? 1 health tick every second unless when every one in team has them as well, which will never happen as everyone with have energy siphon.

 

In this game when you Need health you need it then and there and not in 20 seconds.  If lucky you have a Trinity or Oberon in team that gives a damn to see health damage to cast a heal, hell even if they have the team window open

 

The gear we have is point less in a fast moving game, you need ammo/power/health you have to stand still in a small area while you team moves off ahead, we need the old instant gear back

[DSpite]

Yeah right, stand there taking more damage for 20 seconds and more than likely alone as you team pushes on in a fast moving game.

 

As for aura's seriously? 1 health tick every second unless when every one in team has them as well, which will never happen as everyone with have energy siphon.

 

In this game when you Need health you need it then and there and not in 20 seconds.  If lucky you have a Trinity or Oberon in team that gives a damn to see health damage to cast a heal, hell even if they have the team window open

 

The gear we have is point less in a fast moving game, you need ammo/power/health you have to stand still in a small area while you team moves off ahead, we need the old instant gear back

 

Do you know how to play this game? Because I have never had Health issues on such a massive scale to go into forums and ask for fixes.

 

"while you team moves off ahead" - Playing with PUGs? Then stop, because that not a "team".

 

I don't give a rats that you want to play Trackmania with your frame, and then are worried that by healing up you get left behind. It's a game mechanic. Learn to play.

[[DE]Momaw]

It's a game mechanic. Learn to play.

 

 

I know how to play, thank you. And according to current game mechanics health orbs are pointless.  It's more time efficient to just get downed and let your team pick you up because you get full health back anyway.

 

This seems stupid.

 

I am trying to propose ways to fix it.

[DSpite]

1) Apparently most of the members here do not like self-promoting without asking if anyone wants it first. 

 

2) At least make the health orbs be a bit more useful through healing through percentage of maximum health if it heals more than a static value. 

 

1) Alright, I apologize on that one.

 

2) No offense, but I think the whole Health and Energy and ammo drops from dead bodies to be way too Diablo and not enough Warframe. We should be able to have mechanics to micromanage our own Energy at the very least. Adding more mechanics to Health Orbs is just making it worse.

[Renegade343]

2) No offense, but I think the whole Health and Energy and ammo drops from dead bodies to be way too Diablo and not enough Warframe. We should be able to have mechanics to micromanage our own Energy at the very least. Adding more mechanics to Health Orbs is just making it worse.

I believe that just a very, very small tweak with Health Orbs would make it work slightly better, via having it heal a percentage of maximum health if that value is larger than a set static value (e.g.: Health orbs heal 2.5% of maximum health if that value is > +15 health [a static value]). 

 

As for energy, I just tend to think of it as concentrated Chi (or body energy, or something of the sort) in the shape of an orb that we can see. 

[DSpite]

I know how to play, thank you. And according to current game mechanics health orbs are pointless.  It's more time efficient to just get downed and let your team pick you up because you get full health back anyway.

 

This seems stupid.

 

I am trying to propose ways to fix it.

 

Did it occur to you that health orbs are NOT your personal complete health fix ala Diablo potions, and are simply meant as an emergency top up? Do you seriously think that DE put them in so you can be at max health every time you hit a new tile?

 

When you drop to low health, you are meant to play more carefully, and NOT play more aggressively to get more orbs, like you seem to want to do, and if you are requesting MORE health drops, I still question your ability to play, actually.

[inthephonebox]

I don't really think health orbs need a fix. Personally, I've not had much problem with health damage. Even with the direct health damage or bleed procs and poison I don't have much trouble outside of super high level where a single tick does massive amounts of damage. While this game has turned into a 'one for all, and all for no one but yourself' run and gun game, instigated by rushing through as much content as fast as possible in order to maximize RNG response, you still need to think tactically. Be aware of your surroundings. As long as your more than just a rush zombie its pretty easy to keep a distance from toxic ancients and the kill the infested osprey before they become a nuisance. Bleed proc is much harder to avoid, but does less overall damage. And here's a surprising tip for those situations...take cover! You know, that thing reasonable people do when under fire. With all the shield mods, survivability powers and other forms of life gain in this game, not to mention being revived by teammates, health orbs fit the role of 'top-off medkits' as they should. 

[DSpite]

I believe that just a very, very small tweak with Health Orbs would make it work slightly better, via having it heal a percentage of maximum health if that value is larger than a set static value (e.g.: Health orbs heal 2.5% of maximum health if that value is > +15 health [a static value]). 

 

As for energy, I just tend to think of it as concentrated Chi (or body energy, or something of the sort) in the shape of an orb that we can see. 

 

Please don't. It's a bunch of numbers in a database with a bunch of impossible physics and mechanics attached. They are not "anything". Dropping orbs is a dodgy RPG Mechanic at best. Even Diablo uses potions.

 

If health does not regen, it means it was coded that way. If orbs give low health it's because they were coded that way, and now we would what, heal up to full between combats? and DE does what? Make the mobs hit harder to re-balance to the same level? Give them more toxin damage?

 

Why constantly ask for buff to us when we already steamroll everything? Everyone wants the game to be harder - including you - and then agree with making us stronger. I don't get it.

 

I ask again, how much more invulnerable on top of almost totally invulnerable do you all want to be? What is everyone here mission completion percentage? Anyone below 90%? I strongly doubt it, and even then it's mostly from disconnections or The Stalker and similar things.

[DSpite]

I don't really think health orbs need a fix. Personally, I've not had much problem with health damage. Even with the direct health damage or bleed procs and poison I don't have much trouble outside of super high level where a single tick does massive amounts of damage. While this game has turned into a 'one for all, and all for no one but yourself' run and gun game, instigated by rushing through as much content as fast as possible in order to maximize RNG response, you still need to think tactically. Be aware of your surroundings. As long as your more than just a rush zombie its pretty easy to keep a distance from toxic ancients and the kill the infested osprey before they become a nuisance. Bleed proc is much harder to avoid, but does less overall damage. And here's a surprising tip for those situations...take cover! You know, that thing reasonable people do when under fire. With all the shield mods, survivability powers and other forms of life gain in this game, not to mention being revived by teammates, health orbs fit the role of 'top-off medkits' as they should. 

 

If I remember correctly, getting downed and then getting fixed, restores all your health as well. This game really takes it easy on players too much already.

[Renegade343]

Please don't. It's a bunch of numbers in a database with a bunch of impossible physics and mechanics attached. They are not "anything". Dropping orbs is a dodgy RPG Mechanic at best. Even Diablo uses potions.

 

If health does not regen, it means it was coded that way. If orbs give low health it's because they were coded that way, and now we would what, heal up to full between combats? and DE does what? Make the mobs hit harder to re-balance to the same level? Give them more toxin damage?

 

Why constantly ask for buff to us when we already steamroll everything? Everyone wants the game to be harder - including you - and then agree with making us stronger. I don't get it.

 

I ask again, how much more invulnerable on top of almost totally invulnerable do you all want to be? What is everyone here mission completion percentage? Anyone below 90%? I strongly doubt it, and even then it's mostly from disconnections or The Stalker and similar things.

The small tweak is just for the really high health tanks. In fact, I would actually prefer if there were no health orbs at all, but we have it (since DE(L) has reasons for it), but it does fall a bit flattish. Just a small percentage would not really affect much in the long run. 

 

And I have a 67% mission completion rate. Just saying

[[DE]Momaw]

Did it occur to you that health orbs are NOT your personal complete health fix ala Diablo potions, and are simply meant as an emergency top up? Do you seriously think that DE put them in so you can be at max health every time you hit a new tile?

 

When you drop to low health, you are meant to play more carefully, and NOT play more aggressively to get more orbs, like you seem to want to do, and if you are requesting MORE health drops, I still question your ability to play, actually.

 

And I question your ability to have a conversation without condescension, but here we are.

 

Health orbs don't heal enough to be an emergency ANYTHING. So if you think that was the design intent, then it fails and needs to be adjusted. But I don't think that was the intent, given that you can't carry health orbs with you for later use and their drops are random. Hardly the hallmarks of emergency equipment.  I contend that Health Restore Packs are for emergency use. You're trapped in a corner with a dozen enemies closing in and less than a hundred HP left.  Use a health restore. It's faster than both of my propose solutions and you can carry a health restore to be used whenever you want.   On the other hand, in-mission health orbs are supposed to be for sustaining you. Which they don't do. Unless you're Nekros I guess.

[ScorpDK]

as with ammo, all pickups are too STATIC.

It's always flat numbers, meaning that a low-HP frame gets more out of an HP orb, or a low-energy frame gets more out of an energy orb (as their skills are also less expensive or spammy) - or a semi-auto gets 20 shots while the SMG gets 20 puny shots which it consumes in a single pull of the trigger.

 

Percentage-based Recovery for Orbs, customized pickup counts for weapons. DE, make it happen! (plz) XD

(Same way that Auras should potentially recover a set % of energy/HP, rather than a single flat number)

[Liminal]

I'd prefer % based healing over a short time. You can't pick up another one until it's done healing you. It would make it fair for health builds and it would negate Nekros instant 1% to 100% heals through accumulated orbs.

 

Of course I'd also give health drops a cooldown and make them apply all their healing instantly.

 

Basically, leave emergency heals for the healer frames and make drops more reliable but less usable in a pinch, while making gear drops more similar to healer frames for runs without Trinity or Oberon.

 

But hey, that's just my opinion.

[CY13ERPUNK]

even tho i think momaw has some good ideas of how to tweak the current red orbs

 

honestly i would really prefer if DE would just get rid of the red/blue orbs completely, they are very arcade-y and dont really fit in theme with the game-world at all

 

we need a redesigned energy/abilities 2.0 system as well