Remove Zoren-Coptering And Increase Movement Speed

[IronWolfKnight]

I only use coptering when I am surrounded by enemies so I zip between them and kill them one by one.

 

I think coptering should be nerfed because:

 

1. It makes Rush builds pointless.

 

2. Coptering does not comsume Stamina.

 

3. It makes getting to the boss in Assassination missions a nightmare to do if you have copter rushers in your team because they can copter to the boss room and kill the boss before you can get there.

 

4. It's too easy to do (come on, sliding and then pressing the melee key is not hard) compared to something like wallrun slingshotting.

 

Wallrun slingshotting requires you to get your timing right but even then it's unpredictable and you need some room and a flat wall to wallrun sling unlike coptering which just needs a weapon with high attack speed and your all set and you go in a straight line with almost no consequences. 

[(PSN)CrimsonShinku]

I hate coptering. Because I see it as an exploit.

well, DE doesn't, they've said it enough times.

 

Would be nice if you could elaborate.

Sure if that's your opinion, good for you.

But a simple nope doesn't really mean much

 

How would that really hurt players, they would get movement speed buffs to compensate, in turn you would see players with Heavy weapons being able to keep up better.. and well, genereally less players constantly spinning around

The poor Tenno must already be sick and vomiting inside their suits from all that coptering

 

bad players will never keep up. i don't need a copter to outrun a a guy who thought frost for a capture mission was a good idea. sure if you like frost and like playing as him go for it, but then don't complain when the mission doesn't cater to your character.

 

It needs to go. It's non immersive. How many people or things do you know gain an increase in travel speed while hand to hand fighting? In fact I'd say the opposite happens. You slow down to try and land blows or retreat. Does the game need a second "run" function? I say just increase everyones run speed and call it a day.

 

Also coptering seems to defeat terrain placement and makes slow frames a bit faster. This could negatively impact stage development as terrain will now have to address players who copter which in turn will force the playerbase to do the maneuvre to just get around. It will take away from parkour and wall running almost render frame maneuvre abilities like Rhino Rush pointless. I think speed boosts in maneuvres should only be repeatable if the frame tags an enemy. SImiliar to how it works in Otogi: Myth of Demons. In that game you can perform acrobatics and float in the air to do combat maneuvres kind of like in Warframe, the caveat being that in order to continue to perform the maneuvre you have to land a blow on the bad guy. Once you run out of bad guys or you miss a hit, the coptering ends.

how many people do you know that can wall-run for 10+ seconds, stick to walls, and carry a grenade launcher, a heavy axe and a pocket shotgun at the same time?

 

most stages don't really use parkour as anything but a gimmick. coptering can send you far enough fast enough to create some really good shortcuts, to me, that's as space ninja as one can get.

 

You have to be joking. All exp adds up, and getting to Mastery Rank 16+ takes ages as-is. That, and I rather not have somebody rush ahead of the team just to die by themselves and rage that they didn't get a revive in time.

if you REALLY wanted to level, you'd go to a specialized map for leveling, sechura or another dark sector. plus there's nothing waiting at MR17 anyways so why the hurry?

 

PD: if someone rushes ahead and dies, point and laugh at them. if they can't handle the solo, they shouldn't try to solo, that's them failing

 

I only use coptering when I am surrounded by enemies so I zip between them and kill them one by one.

 

I think coptering should be nerfed because:

 

1. It makes Rush builds pointless.

 

2. Coptering does not comsume Stamina.

 

3. It makes getting to the boss in Assassination missions a nightmare to do if you have copter rushers in your team because they can copter to the boss room and kill the boss before you can get there.

 

4. It's too easy to do (come on, sliding and then pressing the melee key is not hard) compared to something like wallrun slingshotting.

 

Wallrun slingshotting requires you to get your timing right but even then it's unpredictable and you need some room and a flat wall to wallrun sling unlike coptering which just needs a weapon with high attack speed and your all set and you go in a straight line with almost no consequences. 

as said many times, the faster you go, the faster you copter too. so rush builds are not pointless (you should see my rush volt)

 

i find stamina a bad mechanic really, why should my space ninja get tired from swinging a sword 3 times? it just promotes gunplay, except because with coptering you can get in and out without fearing that you won't be able to run away afterwards

 

after farming over 500 orokin cell runs, i just want to get over with killing ruk as fast as possible. if you want a team to go slow with, make your own?

 

it's easy to do, not to perfect. wallrun slingshotting is much easier to get down. with coptering it depends on at which moment of the slide you do the attack, too early you can overshoot by a lot, too late and it's just a small copter

[Wyzilla]

You have to be joking. All exp adds up, and getting to Mastery Rank 16+ takes ages as-is. That, and I rather not have somebody rush ahead of the team just to die by themselves and rage that they didn't get a revive in time.

Except experience points in warframe are shared between teammates.....

 

I don't see a problem with it. If you want to use a heavy weapon, that's largely your own fault. If you're grinding for mastery... yeah, you still get XP from teammate's kills, that's how Warframe works. If you want to directly kill enemies, then either play solo or just play on kappa until you level that crap heavy weapon up and can sell it. Warframe doesn't need coptering removed, it needs to be properly balanced so heavy weapons aren't pointless.

[Ace_Kayo]

Except experience points in warframe are shared between teammates.....

 

I don't see a problem with it. If you want to use a heavy weapon, that's largely your own fault. If you're grinding for mastery... yeah, you still get XP from teammate's kills, that's how Warframe works. If you want to directly kill enemies, then either play solo or just play on kappa until you level that crap heavy weapon up and can sell it. Warframe doesn't need coptering removed, it needs to be properly balanced so heavy weapons aren't pointless.

Well excuse me for wanting to keep this game co-op friendly. With bugs like this that they kept as features, and troll things like abusing skills with bugs to hurt team-mates, it really hurts the game.

 

AND exp share range is still an issue. Also, rushers will always be an issue when the game rewards people for staying with the group.

 

"Just play solo" should NEVER be an option for an online game. That is just a stupid excuse, and you know it.

Edited August 17, 2014 by Ace_Kayo

[PeeWizard]

I agree it does look ridiculous, because ninjas don´t spin around with their weapons to move.

[Ace_Kayo]

I agree it does look ridiculous, because ninjas don´t spin around with their weapons to move.

Yes, there should be an increase in running speed like the OP said, and/or a more UNIVERSAL way to move quicker without this bug. Maybe even a separate power slot just for a unique movement power/mod.

[SchrodingersKitteh]

Coptering should have a downside imo, and that downside should be extreme dizzyness, where you cannot move/attack or use abilities for 10 seconds, meaning that if you are stupid enough to copter endlessly and screw up and land in the middle of a large group of mobs you are going to die, no questions asked and no second chances.

 

Coptering is probably the sole reason why I do not play in online mode, I stick to invite only so:

A, I don't get left behind

B, I don't get raged at cause I cannot copter

C, Have the group disband and screw me out of my rewards cause they all decided to level every single mob alone and race to the exit.

 

We need a group filter where you can set a requirement of either no rushers, no coptering or both tbh, this would help lessen the amount of hate this activity garners at times.

 

edit: actually what we really need is a mutator system like in unreal tournament, only difference is here, you could say no aerial attacks (removes coptering), no sprinting and other things like, no pentas and stuff, but instead of being a total downside have it where you get bonuses for doing missions in a group this way, like more xp, cash or resources and things like that.

 

The above examples would only work if you were joining pugs/pubs and only the randomly assigned leader could set them, so if you were bringing Dual Zorans and a Penta you would be locked out of using them for the duration of the mission.

 

Of course there would need to be other restrictions so the leader could not be an &#! and lock 1 player out from being able to do anything due to having all their weapons/abilities locked.

Edited August 17, 2014 by SchrodingersKitteh

[Arunafeltz]

I don't have a problem with coptering. It doesn't invalidate Rush and slingshotting, which I use to keep up with others(actually wait no, I'm usually the rusher who's half a dozen tiles in front because screw enemies that's what sentinel's Sweeper is for) while holding a Dark Sword/Magistar/Serro(can't go without looking fancy). I'd like more unique animations for it though, it does look a little odd.

[EverythingNagato]

 

 

 

 

Would be nice if you could elaborate.

Sure if that's your opinion, good for you.

But a simple nope doesn't really mean much

 

How would that really hurt players, they would get movement speed buffs to compensate, in turn you would see players with Heavy weapons being able to keep up better.. and well, genereally less players constantly spinning around

The poor Tenno must already be sick and vomiting inside their suits from all that coptering

 

Sure, a speed compensation would be a neutral standoff,

But coptering is fun to me.

[Ace_Kayo]

Sure, a speed compensation would be a neutral standoff,

But coptering is fun to me.

If it was on par with the new or current running speed with a stamina cost to match, sure. Still, I think having some crazy somersaults like Val does in Hysteria in which would be available for any frame to use but with more movement potential would be more fitting.

[SeaUrchins]

I agree it does look ridiculous, because ninjas don´t spin around with their weapons to move.

 

It looks ridiculous at first, then when you figure you can copter instead of running all the way, it is $&*&*#(%&. Ye, I copter all the time, still I realise it is a fail for a game to allow such exploiting.

Edited August 17, 2014 by SeaUrchins

[CY13ERPUNK]

SO MUCH +1 TO OP

 

SO MUCH

 

+999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999

 

IMHO DE/Steve saying that 'coptering' is staying is one of the dumbest/worst decisions they've made so far, truly I think it is a bad decision and I do not understand how they do not see how it hurts/clashes with their overall game design and play experience =/

Edited August 17, 2014 by CY13ERPUNK

[Caernarvon]

Sounds ridiculous?

Yeah, that's what it looks like too.

 

1) It looks ridiculous, completely out of place with the flow of the gameplay and less immersive

 

Warframe as a whole is ridiculous and there is nothing immersive whatsoever about anything in the game.

 

Anyways, cptering is staying. Or they could replace it with something similar that works regardless of melee weapons, like a manual air dash with the same properties.

[Ryouhi]

Sure, a speed compensation would be a neutral standoff,

But coptering is fun to me.

Okay, 'Remove' coptering might be a bit harsh, as there definitely ARE people that genuinely like it, but what about nerfs?

I mean being able to cross whole tiles with a single spin attack is just ridiculous.

Make it slightly faster than sprinting, but not as ridiculous as atm.

 

Or generally more focus on parkour.

You wanna get around faster?

Use parkour and find shortcuts.

Of course this would first require a lot more work on that system, but yeah ;x

 

(though personally i'd still rather have it completely removed :P)

[Noble_Cactus]

I like coptering. It gives players an optional, low-skill, unique movement option that provides a burst of speed so you can reposition yourself. At the same time, it requires the player to have basic execution to perform, and that's engaging to me. It's become part of Warframe's identity itself.

 

Side tangent: It actually reminds me a bit of slide spinning in a Crash Bandicoot speedrun. I think that's cool.

 

 

How about this. Keep coptering, but make every melee able to copter to some degree. Slow, heavy weapons have slow copters that send you far, while quick melees send you shorter distances but with faster animation.

 

This game needs better movement in general though. Most frames feel too slow for the game's pacing, and the parkour is complete trash.

Edited August 17, 2014 by Noble_Cactus

[TheGuy08]

Look some players like to rush personally if they remove coptering it will just mean slash dash goes back on the bar. Not everyone wants to mosey through each level. If you hate rushers you have 2 options. Play solo or play with friends. For players who hate slow players you have to same options. The number of times you have to wait at a door while someone works their way to you is just as annoying. 

 

On another note most rushers know what they are doing . They have played the missions so much they do not wan't to waist time. In many cases they are forced to turn back and rez the other players and not the other way around.

 

While coptering might have been unintended DE literally gave many more weapons the capability to copter. At this point I imagine in the future all will be able to.

 

One last thing trying to reduce mobility in a game about space ninjas just doesn't make sense. 

[(PSN)CrimsonShinku]

Okay, 'Remove' coptering might be a bit harsh, as there definitely ARE people that genuinely like it, but what about nerfs?

I mean being able to cross whole tiles with a single spin attack is just ridiculous.

Make it slightly faster than sprinting, but not as ridiculous as atm.

 

Or generally more focus on parkour.

You wanna get around faster?

Use parkour and find shortcuts.

Of course this would first require a lot more work on that system, but yeah ;x

 

(though personally i'd still rather have it completely removed :P)

problem is DE said they don-t want to force parkour, which is why this game has so many open and wide rooms. this isn-t coptering-s fault. coptering just turned out to be the best way of movement due to level design. if more levels were small rooms with lots of obstacles on which to jump, wallrun and slide coptering would become unusable.

 

coptering isn-t and has never been the issue. the stance on level design is (not saying it's bad to not focus on parkour)

[IronWolfKnight]

as said many times, the faster you go, the faster you copter too. so rush builds are not pointless (you should see my rush volt)

i find stamina a bad mechanic really, why should my space ninja get tired from swinging a sword 3 times? it just promotes gunplay, except because with coptering you can get in and out without fearing that you won't be able to run away afterwards

after farming over 500 orokin cell runs, i just want to get over with killing ruk as fast as possible. if you want a team to go slow with, make your own?

it's easy to do, not to perfect. wallrun slingshotting is much easier to get down. with coptering it depends on at which moment of the slide you do the attack, too early you can overshoot by a lot, too late and it's just a small copter

1. What I ment with rush builds is a build that focuses on sprint speed not coptering (I named it after the mod Rush so I wasn't clear what I was saying and as so I apologise) and I don't need mods like Rush and Maglev to increase my copter speed. Swords, Whips and staffs for example usually have high enough attack speed to copter effectiveley and they can be futher amplified with a maxed Fury mod, Volt's Speed and Valkyr's Warcry.

2. I will agree that Stamina is not good right now but that's only because most Warframes have only 100 Stamina (Valkyr and Hydroid have 150 stamina) but with that being said, without Stamina: Blocking especially with a maxed Reflection mod would be overpowered, it would bring back infinate wallrunning which DE wanted to get rid of and the mod Shield Flux would be unusable.

What I think that DE should do is to make it so that all Warframes should have 150 Stamina, their Stamina regen should be increased, Sprinting should not be effected by Stamina and like the OP said, increase Sprint speed for all Warframes by default.

What I was trying to say is that I don't think it's fair that Sprinting should comsume Stamina when Coptering consumes no stamina.

3. I should not have to make a team or go solo just to kill a boss because some Jackass desided to rush through the level with coptering and kill the boss before I can and I'm not a slow player. I use abilities like Rip Line, Slash Dash, Super Jump, Tidel Surge and Teleport as mobility tools and I shouldn't need to copter to catch up.

It really becomes absurd when you join a match and everyone except the host is already at the boss room so you run to the boss room only when you do get there, the two other players have killed the boss so the only thing to do is to:

A. Collect the items the boss dropped and then get to extraction.

B. Abort the mission and try again.

Basicly, I want to actually fight the boss because in my opinion, an Assassination mission without a boss to fight is like a Extermination mission without any enemies to kill and the only thing to do is to go to extraction. It's both devoid of any fun and lacks any challenge to be had.

4. Isn't the main point of coptering to go as fast as possible? I don't think many players are going to care if they overshoot by a lot and even if that was a problem, coptering can be mastered with ease anyway.

Like I said, you need some room and a flat wall to wallrun sling and what going to happen when both a coptering rusher and a slinging rusher enter:

A. a large room with a lot of terrain in the way of wallrun slinging.

B. a small and narrow corridor.

C. a large room with no walls.

D. a room where the walls are ill suited to wallrun.

The copterer would get to the end faster than the slinger most of the time.

Edited August 17, 2014 by IronWolfKnight

[(PSN)CrimsonShinku]

1. What I ment with rush builds is a build that focuses on sprint speed not coptering (I named it after the mod Rush so I wasn't clear what I was saying and as so I apologise) and I don't need mods like Rush and Maglev to increase my copter speed. Swords, Whips and staffs for example usually have high enough attack speed to copter effectiveley and they can be futher amplified with a maxed Fury mod, Volt's Speed and Valkyr's Warcry.

2. I will agree that Stamina is not good right now but that's only because most Warframes have only 100 Stamina (Valkyr and Hydroid have 150 stamina) but with that being said, without Stamina: Blocking especially with a maxed Reflection mod would be overpowered, it would bring back infinate wallrunning which DE wanted to get rid of and the mod Shield Flux would be unusable.

What I think that DE should do is to make it so that all Warframes should have 150 Stamina, their Stamina regen should be increased, Sprinting should not be effected by Stamina and like the OP said, increase Sprint speed for all Warframes by default.

What I was trying to say is that I don't think it's fair that Sprinting should comsume Stamina when Coptering consumes no stamina.

3. I should not have to make a team or go solo just to kill a boss because some Jackass desided to rush through the level with coptering and kill the boss before I can and I'm not a slow player. I use abilities like Rip Line, Slash Dash, Super Jump, Tidel Surge and Teleport as mobility tools and I shouldn't need to copter to catch up.

It really becomes absurd when you join a match and everyone except the host is already at the boss room so you run to the boss room only when you do get there, the two other players have killed the boss so the only thing to do is to:

A. Collect the items the boss dropped and then get to extraction.

B. Abort the mission and try again.

Basicly, I want to actually fight the boss because in my opinion, an Assassination mission without a boss to fight is like a Extermination mission without any enemies to kill and the only thing to do is to go to extraction. It's both devoid of any fun and lacks any challenge to be had.

4. Isn't the main point of coptering to go as fast as possible? I don't think many players are going to care if they overshoot by a lot and even if that was a problem, coptering can be mastered with ease anyway.

Like I said, you need some room and a flat wall to wallrun sling and what going to happen when both a coptering rusher and a slinging rusher enter:

A. a large room with a lot of terrain in the way of wallrun slinging.

B. a small and narrow corridor.

C. a large room with no walls.

D. a room where the walls are ill suited to wallrun.

The copterer would get to the end faster than the slinger most of the time.

1 i understood what you meant, what i'm saying is that rush builds help to copter even better. sure some weapons don't need it, but it's always fun (and if you can manage the speed, extremely fast) to run missions like that.

 

2 150 stamina would fix nothing, this game either needs stamina to go away, or to really ramp up it's regeneration. blocking requiring you to be on melee is an awful deterrent to use it already, and as enemies scale it becomes absolutely unusable (try parrying a heavy gunner while you run closer to him)

 

also, you do know you can go fast without coptering and without consuming stamina? by sprinting-slide-jump-sprint-slide you're able to go faster than regular sprinting, and even if you have zero stamina you can keep doing it.

 

3 so he's a jackass... because he wants to be done fast? you know the argument can be flipped? "man i'm so tired of running sargas ruk, this is my 100th run, i need 3 more orokin cells, and this guy keeps going slow and having me wait at extraction for a minute"

 

see, point of view. unless people start calling other names because they don't go at the same speed, nobody is a jackass. and this goes to fast and slow players BOTH.

 

...and what if  a guy who doesn't copter gets to the boss at the same speed as the group, and kills him in one dread arrow, did you really get to fight the boss? was there any challenge?

 

4 going as fast as possible doesn't go hand in hand with overshooting, i can overshoot off a cliff, lose time, overshoot into a wall, lose time, etc. this is why bad copterers actually end up behind the group even if the group isn't coptering.

 

and thanks, you just proved -EXACTLY- what i said, the rooms aren't made for parkour. the only rooms that really are are the void reward rooms, how is this coptering's fault? what if someone complained that he doesn't like you vault-jumping, which by the way is a bug/unintended effect in the engine physics, exactly the same thing coptering is

[-SLX-J3tAc3]

(sorry if this isn't that well written or i repeat myslef a lot - i'm quite tired today ´x`)

Okay, i have a feeling i'm not gonna get a lot of flak here, but here goes..

 

Ever played online with a squad before?

Yeah, then you probably will have seen Zoren-Coptering, using spin-attacks of certain, mostly fast Melee Weapons which will catapult the player at great speed and big distances.

Sounds ridiculous?

Yeah, that's what it looks like too.

 

It always irks me going into an online match and i already know people will just zip through tiles in a matter of seconds using this 'technique'.

Me on the other hand, i usually get left behind with my Heavy Weapons.

I can't copter myself, nor can i keep up with sprint mods.

Because of that i sometimes actually switch out my weapons for a 'Copter-Weapon' so i don't get left behind.

 

 

These are most of the problems i have with 'Coptering':

1) It looks ridiculous, completely out of place with the flow of the gameplay and less immersive

2) Players that choose Heavy Weapons, or generally Weapons that are bad at coptering often get left behind

3) Players might feel pressured into taking Copter-Weapons so they can keep up with the squad

4) Heavy weapons might seem less desirable

5) Rushers flying through tilesets in seconds

6) Makes the actual Spin-Attack less useful in Combat - zipping 30meters past your target

 

I really think Coptering as a whole should be heavily nerfed or completely removed and in turn the movement speed or sprint speed of all warframes should be increased accordingly.

You would still be able to progress through maps quickly, but you would actually walk and run, instead of flying  and spinning like a maniac.

 

In some threads about this have read numerous times: "But it's hard to pull of, so it adds challenge"

Do you really think so? pressing ctrl+e while running is hard?

And even if it were, it shouldn't warrant leaving such a weird 'feature' in the game.

The only thing it gives me is frustration and probably arthritis..

 

I think the game would look just so much cooler and immersive if players would actually run together into combat instead of everyone flying around with their melees.

I mean, 

 

 

 

What do you guys think?

It really does look bad, all that mindless coptering - someone referred to it as "retarding around the map" - I agree. However, I have a rush mod to help you out some. Sure, it's not the solution, but every little bit helps.

Also, about getting everyone to run together, they really need to make these guys go faster. The maps can be so huge, people copter to cover it more quickly. Volt really tries my patience (1.0 base speed) so I turn on the Speed ability to get his butt moving, and I don't even bother using Excalibur. In PUG matches, all the dashing and coptering can leave you in the dust if you rely on footspeed alone at 0.9-1.0.

Boost their speed to be about 1.25 as base runspeed, I'd say, with .1 difference between fastest and slowest frames, higher or lower.

[00zau]

I like having coptering as a fast but low control movement method, while keeping regular sprint as a more controlled but slower method. You can copter in a straight line, but you can easily overshoot your target. Switching between sprints, jump kicks, and copters is fun and opens possibilities for movement (jump kicks are slower than copters, which you often need), as well as using the ground slam as an air-brake. Simply increasing movement speed at the cost of coptering would be a lot less fun, I think.

 

Regarding non-coptering weapons, I'd rather DE make all weapons viable for coptering in some fashion instead of 'nerfing' everything else into line with them. Heavy weapons ought to impart more momentum (but slower) to make them just as good as the 'fast' weapons. Fist weapons should just have their air-slide be a falcon-punch/kick that gives similar propulsion.

[Z123FFSS89]

Eeeh if you kick flip to slide to nose manual to run and repeat you should be able to keep up. I just started coptering and I enjoy it so I'd hate to see it nerfed. Plus it brings uniqueness to warframe in my eyes.

[Acidtrees]

Don't remove coptering because it's a lot of fun.

[fatpig84]

Copter will remain forever.

P.S. I am using Rush on my frames too !

[grillv20]

Whats the point in having standard movement sets when coptering is a thing? Why not just replace all movement all together with just coptering. That would be cool.

 

^ this is what copterkids actually believe.

 

I on the other hand think it looks stupid and it should be fixed regardless of how butthurt the community would be about it. It adds nothing to the game. It DOES HOWEVER remove a lot from the game. Parkouring becomes pointless. Sprinting becomes pointless. Mods that have to do with going faster and using stamina become pointless. People that choose to play the game properly get penalized while douches that copter get the advantage. Me personally, when I play warframe I see these people that just ruin the game and make it not fun in general. Nothing is more annoying and obnoxious than doing a mission and seeing somebody flying around like an idiot. It ruins the feel and atmosphere of the game and its another one of the many things wrong with the game that have made me lose interest completely.

 

Its a downright exploit. Plain and simple. The only reason that DE doesn't actually fix it is that they don't want to lose paying customers. When a game is in BETA you're supposed to fix exploits not support them because an overwhelming amount of people use them. -_- If its going to be in the game forever you might as well put it in the tutorial or something.

Edited August 18, 2014 by grillv20