About 'speed Prime'

[sekushiiandee]

first time i ever heard speed prime being used as the term for negative MPs

 

anyway....i dont see a problem with the positive or negative effects of MP....that being said....it is situational

 

looking at it from a coop perspective, if you knowingly play a positive MP nova in missions where you will slow the progress of the mission....you kind of deserve a slap on the hand

 

if you knowingly play a negative MP nova in missions that you know you will get effed up with the speed.....you deserve the slap on the hand

 

slowing down mission progress isnt exactly fun for everyone....so i can understand why ppl would be like wtf?

 

you're not exactly being very specific about the missions that you are entering....and honestly iono what kind of people you run into

 

i have never had a problem with players complaining or yelling at me for using a nova that has the wrong build....granted if i do not have the correct one equipped....i just plain dont use MP because i always bring weapons that are able to deal damage....if not me then i have other players helping me out

 

 

so can you be more clear about your situation? what missions are they whining about and what is your build in said missions?

[Orbister]

+1 OP

[Sekkron]

first time i ever heard speed prime being used as the term for negative MPs

 

anyway....i dont see a problem with the positive or negative effects of MP....that being said....it is situational

 

looking at it from a coop perspective, if you knowingly play a positive MP nova in missions where you will slow the progress of the mission....you kind of deserve a slap on the hand

 

if you knowingly play a negative MP nova in missions that you know you will get effed up with the speed.....you deserve the slap on the hand

 

slowing down mission progress isnt exactly fun for everyone....so i can understand why ppl would be like wtf?

 

you're not exactly being very specific about the missions that you are entering....and honestly iono what kind of people you run into

 

i have never had a problem with players complaining or yelling at me for using a nova that has the wrong build....granted if i do not have the correct one equipped....i just plain dont use MP because i always bring weapons that are able to deal damage....if not me then i have other players helping me out

 

 

so can you be more clear about your situation? what missions are they whining about and what is your build in said missions?

Was a public mission, solo queue. Still leveling Nova, she's level 19 now but shelved from public play. I used M Prime once in the mission and was trolled shortly after.  Team member called me a noob, refused to pick me up when I died. I left at 5 waves, it was some Dark Sector mission.

 

Subsequent mission was a different group, another Dark Sector mission.  I was asked if I had negative MP, I told them it was not equipped.  Used M.Prime once, cleared mission, teammate raged and told me never to use that ability.  So I left and have completely been disinterested in Nova since.

 

It was mostly an isolated incident for me, but a notable one since I have never been questioned before. 80% of my games are public ones, and I have carried many a group.  I do Dark Sector missions occassionally because the EXP gains are pretty good, and Nova was the only one of four frames I had not gotten to try yet.  I don't mind being optimal, I encourage it in my own playstyle.  But for players to up and get angry because you're not using a very specific setup?

 

It's really not that big a deal, I mean I'm fine using Nova just with friends and never using her in public games (shudder), but I do realize that the ability is more or less being exploited right now.  I'm not likely to complain if I'm in a public group and Nova wants to use either iteration of her ult. For me, I do play optimally, I play well, I clear rooms, I minmax like the best of them, but in the case of Nova, her ability is broken to one side of the spectrum (Too fast and the monsters will kill the objective or the players) or the other (Too slow and players have to play hide and seek).  That makes players behave in certain ways or react strongly.  

 

Trinity was like this, and I knew she was going to be nerfed.  So was Ember, who was so powerful I would just run through missions ahead of everyone (until I learned I was being a jerk when I was doing this.  Sorry.). In the case of the speed being tipped one way or the other?  I doubt it will last. I hope it doesn't.  It seems like a really silly exploit to me.

 

Though yeah, I guess this was my first experience with actual douchebags and I'm a little touchy about it.  I'll stick to my other frames for public games.

Edited August 18, 2014 by Sekkron

[RealPandemonium]

>Requesting to remove completely optional functionality that is pretty much never used maliciously.

Edited August 18, 2014 by RealPandemonium

[Sekkron]

>Requesting to remove completely optional functionality that is pretty much never used maliciously.

That's pretty much the case with every skill that has been drastically altered (except maybe Vauban).  

[Quamobrem]

Whoa, whoa, wait, hold up.

No one played Nova? I mean, I know I fell mostly out of the game for a couple months there, but last I checked Nova was the ONLY FRAME ANYONE PLAYED, besides Frost if a pod needed protecting and Trinity because never dying is good. At least partly because the slowdown made crowds more manageable.

What even is Warframe anymore.

[LukeAura]

Tip, if people aren't satisfied with you running slow/fast primes, run a neutral. 
I have a build set up for 5% slow effect that is practically unnoticeable(I'd run pure neutral but I'm not farming another Focus/Overextended to balance it out). It's a lot harder to upset people when you don't have an effect. 

These builds that are outside the normal train of thought are unique and offering interesting effects, and should be encouraged as they offer more versatility as well as increase potential number of builds. 
We should not be discouraging, or worse yet outright removing, them because of isolated bad incidents and players.
Don't punish the players who use them for good and create a positive experience with them. I had a Vauban/Nyx team with my negative prime build on Xini and it was something those guys are going to be talking about for a while they were so impressed by the combo. Massive crowd control that was actually bolstered by the increased speed.  Vortex on one side, Absorb on the other, M prime from the rafters. It was entirely a pug game, and I was more than capable of AMDing the chain myself, never actually had to though. 

[Monolake]

Yeah axe it. M-prime shouldn't be 3 powers in one.

Move the speed-multiplier to Novas first ability, since Null Star is a useless joke now.

[Xiloscient]

Only noobs use speed prime. It's S#&$ for late game. Ignore the filthy haters.

[RealPandemonium]

Yeah axe it. M-prime shouldn't be 3 powers in one.

Move the speed-multiplier to Novas first ability, since Null Star is a useless joke now.

Null Star is better than it's ever been now that Nova has an incentive to build for duration.  It seeks weak spots and does formidable damage when it procs, as well. 

Edited August 19, 2014 by RealPandemonium

[Monolake]

Null Star is better than it's ever been now that Nova has an incentive to build for duration.  It seeks weak spots and does formidable damage when it procs, as well. 

Maybe its useful on Mercury, its pathetic vs higher levels being superslow and low damage. But the thing is it's even pointless to buff, it has no place in Nova build simply because her other 2 skills do outrageous damage with weapons multipliers.

M-prime should stop being 3 abilities in one to add a 4th useful ability, which would also solve the problem discussed in this thread - oftentimes you dont want speed change, just the debuff and damage. 

Edited August 19, 2014 by Monolake

[(PSN)Magician_NG]

Speed Nova is welcome in my dark sector defense party anytime.

 

Slow Nova though...GTFO. 

 

[OT]You too Hyrdoid, GTFO.

[Tatersail]

I love it.

I also love the blind rage Slow

[RealPandemonium]

Maybe its useful on Mercury, its pathetic vs higher levels being superslow and low damage. But the thing is it's even pointless to buff, it has no place in Nova build simply because her other 2 skills do outrageous damage with weapons multipliers.

M-prime should stop being 3 abilities in one to add a 4th useful ability, which would also solve the problem discussed in this thread - oftentimes you dont want speed change, just the debuff and damage. 

So you want to make Nova more versatile and overpowered than she already is?  Upping Null Star's proc chance would give it the scaling mechanic it needs to stay relevant in T4s anyway.

[Monolake]

So you want to make Nova more versatile and overpowered than she already is?  Upping Null Star's proc chance would give it the scaling mechanic it needs to stay relevant in T4s anyway.

Quite the opposite, moving speed effect to another skill would make ult weaker and introduce the need to equip and use another ability according to situation (which costs additional energy and time to cast too), creating more varied decision-based gameplay, instead of just brainlessly spamming 4 all the time. As a side effect the abilities becomes more team-friendly, no one wants to slowdown an easy defence, but as it becomes harder the slow becomes  quite handy.

[RealPandemonium]

Quite the opposite, moving speed effect to another skill would make ult weaker and introduce the need to equip and use another ability according to situation (which costs additional energy and time to cast too), creating more varied decision-based gameplay, instead of just brainlessly spamming 4 all the time. As a side effect the abilities becomes more team-friendly, no one wants to slowdown an easy defence, but as it becomes harder the slow becomes  quite handy.

So you want to buff Nova.

[Tatersail]

I mindlessly spam, 2 and 4 on nova, I would mindlessly spam all of her skills, because they are all pretty amazing, but the Mod requirements leave no room, I already lost flow, and only have 1 Defensive mod left.

 

Speed prime is fine, since it allows for speedy farms, and grinds, with the option to either Remove the snare, increase the Snare as the player likes.

 

 

Some people Want loki to mash Radial Blind, Some are happy to have Loki Invis and Rez them

Some people mash Sonar on banshee to maintain it for the team, Some Don't

Some Nerkros actually think they should use there 1, 2 and 4 skills?????? 

 

How other people play is up to them.

Some teams may ask for run-speed, some may ask for snare.

 

 

I do with there was a feature to swap, from A B or C frame setups Mid game, or even change your frame.

 

Joining a Defense as Vauban to find 2 other Vaubans, then re-logging to Nova to find 2 nova's in your next Game sucks.

[LukeAura]

So you want to buff Nova.

Nova needs a buff though. 

She had a lot of power in M prime, which made her seem overpowered, but it was really just that one skill. The rest of her kit was/is far too situational or too weak in Null Stars case.

There is nothing wrong with situational abilities, but when you have two and one underpowered skill, the last one has to be overpowered to make up for the lack of general problem solving/mitigating in the rest of her kit. She needs a general use skill that is more balanced so that she isn't so reliant on Molecular Prime's raw power. Then, if still necessary, it can be safely lowered a little further to a point it feels balanced. Until then, it's rather stuck. 

[RealPandemonium]

Nova needs a buff though.

Reposting this for emphasis.

 

Also, implying that frames need abilities to be viable when a slew of game-trivializing weapons exist.

[LukeAura]

Also, implying that frames need abilities to be viable when a slew of game-trivializing weapons exist.

So we should just not balance frames because game trivializing weapons exist?

No, they must be balanced to. 

 

[Monolake]

So you want to buff Nova.

So you think that that making skills more expensive and require more considerate use is a buff.  Are you enjoying recent Penta buff btw?

Edited August 20, 2014 by Monolake

[-CM-Kuroyasha]

I would be more than happy to see it gone.  I've never been questioned about my ability usage until I went into a mission without Speed Prime mod equipped.  Now I don't want to deal with people asking me every mission whether or not I have it equipped and be roped into a single playstyle or being 'trolled' because I hit 4 with the 'normal' slow effect enabled once during the mission.

 

The power strength attribute that causes enemies to be hastened should be removed.  It never should have existed and I for one would be happy with it gone.  I care not that it speeds up defense missions, I do care when people start feeling everyone that doesn't use one particular mod setup is a noob and that it is the one and only way to play Nova.

 

I honestly don't care what positive effects the speeding up confers, I just want players to mind their own mods. If the speeding up is such a game changer, axe it.

if you are worried about what others think of you and your builds then that is your own problem. speeding up and slowing down the enemy both have their advantages.. and everyone has their build preferences.. if you wish to play a certain style of gameplay make a group who wants to play it with you thats what the Invite button is for. 

if you are going random groups in public then play the style you like and the randoms will play the style they like. if anyone complains tell them to shut up or ignore them.

 

Warframe has diversity in gameplay styles and everyone wants to put frames and abilities in specific roles which reduces this diversity... well the game is not meant for that, so what people do and what they want others to do is two different issues. 

 

if you want to play a certain style- make a team.

if are in public you have no excuses to complain.

Edited August 20, 2014 by -CM-Kuroyasha

[(PSN)MrNishi]

Asking to have the 'Speed Prime' utility removed because some players are bullying other players into a certain play style....

So are we going to remove Warframes that players feel are not worth brining into T4 missions.

I main 2 - Valkyr's that are forma'd differently and have been in plenty of lobbies that do not like a Valkyr, much less my Spectra (USPS4).

Players will have a preference and try to force a playstle and while the game does not have much diversity, the community doesn't need to only play as 5-6 Warframes utilizing the same cookie cutter builds....

[Monolake]

So are we going to remove Warframes that players feel are not worth brining into T4 missions.

...

 

There is clearly a problem that some frames are much worse than the others and that some skills can work against the rest of the team (like Hydroid puddle). There are many improvements to be made.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

There is clearly a problem that some frames are much worse than the others and that some skills can work against the rest of the team (like Hydroid puddle). There are many improvements to be made.

I gave examples of how some weapons don't work in all situations. Warframe powers are the same.

But I don't think that means we should Axe every little variety there is in the game.

Personally Hydroid has 2 useful abilities: Tempest Barrage and Tidal Surge. (I'm on PS4 and prefer melee, so Tempest Barrage has CC to assist melee more than Tentacle Swarm, Puddle is just odd and Surge is the Invincibility frame needed to get past a mess of enemies to reposition.)

I don't dictate how other's play. If a Hydroid chooses to Puddle, then I leave them alone and let them be responsible for those enemies. Same for Nova's with M-Prime, Djinn Fatal Attraction, Nyk Absorb, Vauban Bastille...

As I mainly melee I hate Bastille, Vortex, Puddle, Crush, Reckoning, Snow Globe, and Stasis - these moves tend to remove targets from my limited hit-box range and I deal with it by just moving on to the next room and leaving that player to clear those enemies by themselves. (I really dislike Stasis as I see it cast the most often and it renders ¾ of Valkyr's powers useless: Paralysis, WarCry, and Hysteria. But I see Rhino players use this move all the time.) I don't think these powers should be removed from the game because they don't synergize with my play style.

Edited August 20, 2014 by (PS4)MrNishi